9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

Fixed a Wickes rad to a wall for a customer yesterday.

Rule One of fixing things to walls - throw away screws & fixings
supplied & use your own.

But these looked a bit good. Huge meaty plugs & coach screws.

I broke Rule One & tried to use them.

No size marked on plug as usual. Read instructions; "Using a 9mm
masonry bit, drill holes for the plugs".

9mm???

Check extensive stock of drill bits. 8mm & 10mm - no 9mm. Check in
Wickes book. No 9mm. Check in SF, TS, ITS catalogues - no 9mm.

Tried 8mm, plug wouldn't go in, tried 10mm, plug spun.

Applied Rule One & binned the bloody things.

Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Fixed a Wickes rad to a wall for a customer yesterday.

Rule One of fixing things to walls - throw away screws & fixings
supplied & use your own.

But these looked a bit good. Huge meaty plugs & coach screws.

I broke Rule One & tried to use them.

No size marked on plug as usual. Read instructions; "Using a 9mm
masonry bit, drill holes for the plugs".

9mm???

Check extensive stock of drill bits. 8mm & 10mm - no 9mm. Check in
Wickes book. No 9mm. Check in SF, TS, ITS catalogues - no 9mm.

Tried 8mm, plug wouldn't go in, tried 10mm, plug spun.

Applied Rule One & binned the bloody things.

Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?

There's a 9mm in my collection -no idea how long I've had it, perhaps it
was to fit radiators ;-)

plenty on google.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

9mm???

Parabellum

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

The Medway Handyman wrote:


Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?



Have a look at the various Fischer offerings. I've found their plugs
extremely good (better than stock stuff like Unos), particulrly for
difficult substrates.

http://apps.fischer.de/poc/default.aspx?page=details&layertype=Z&sprache=EN&k at=$MART-
HK-$MKAT-HK-$MPG-G1-$MZG-F1&ekat=$EKAT-HK-EN

SX are very good for "cheeseblock" heavy loads as they bite along their
whole length and you can get extra long ones (also good for heavy loads into
brick with known thick plaster)



http://apps.fischer.de/poc/default.aspx?page=details&layertype=Z&sprache=EN&k at=$MART-
HK-$MKAT-HK-$MPG-G1-$MZG-F451&ekat=$EKAT-HK-EN

UX Plug

For hollow block/bricks with holes (not used these as I don't have the evil
substrates mentioned)


http://apps.fischer.de/poc/default.aspx?page=details&layertype=Z&sprache=EN&k at=$MART-
HK-$MKAT-HK-$MPG-G1-$MZG-F4&ekat=$EKAT-HK-EN#hyperlinktecdatahead

S Plug - more of a basic fixing for dense block/brick - but I find their
performance beats Unos for higher loads like curtain rails and shelves.

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

In message
,
" writes

9mm???

Parabellum


My thoughts when I saw the subject line, may cause a bit of blowout on
the other side of the wall in modern houses though.
--
Bill

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

On Dec 11, 12:46*pm, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
Fixed a Wickes rad to a wall for a customer yesterday.

Rule One of fixing things to walls - throw away screws & fixings
supplied & use your own.

But these looked a bit good. *Huge meaty plugs & coach screws.

I broke Rule One & tried to use them.

No size marked on plug as usual. *Read instructions; "Using a 9mm
masonry bit, drill holes for the plugs".

9mm???

Check extensive stock of drill bits. *8mm & 10mm - no 9mm. *Check in
Wickes book. No 9mm. *Check in SF, TS, ITS catalogues - no 9mm.

Tried 8mm, plug wouldn't go in, tried 10mm, plug spun.

Applied Rule One & binned the bloody things.

Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?

Drill 10mm, put a bit of packing in, tap plugs in.


NT

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 12:46:51 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?

Same reason that the toolstation (or screwfix) plug based cable tie
thingies use 9mm. To be damn bloody awkward.

9mm is about, I have one now but it's not that easy to get hold of in
the sheds and many trade places. I had to mail order it from
somewhere.

--
Cheers
Dave.

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

On 11/12/2011 12:46, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?


To sell some unusual sized drill bits that they happen to have?

--
Howard Neil

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

NT wrote:
On Dec 11, 12:46 pm, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
Fixed a Wickes rad to a wall for a customer yesterday.

Rule One of fixing things to walls - throw away screws & fixings
supplied & use your own.

But these looked a bit good. Huge meaty plugs & coach screws.

I broke Rule One & tried to use them.

No size marked on plug as usual. Read instructions; "Using a 9mm
masonry bit, drill holes for the plugs".

9mm???

Check extensive stock of drill bits. 8mm & 10mm - no 9mm. Check in
Wickes book. No 9mm. Check in SF, TS, ITS catalogues - no 9mm.

Tried 8mm, plug wouldn't go in, tried 10mm, plug spun.

Applied Rule One & binned the bloody things.

Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?

Drill 10mm, put a bit of packing in, tap plugs in.


NT

Or revert to the well tested and tried plan B: Drill the 10mm hole, cut a
square piece of wood slightly bigger than depth and diameter of hole, cut a
small lead-in taper on the end, bang timber plug into wall, cut off to
length with a chisel and then insert screw (pre-drilling hole in plugs as
necessary).

Far too old-fashioned for TMH to use - or maybe even a too difficult a
solution for him to think of!

And for the purists here who may 'bang on' about sticking a screw in to end
grain - remember the method was around for many years before rawlplugs etc
were invented.

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Fixed a Wickes rad to a wall for a customer yesterday.

Rule One of fixing things to walls - throw away screws & fixings
supplied & use your own.

But these looked a bit good. Huge meaty plugs & coach screws.

I broke Rule One & tried to use them.

No size marked on plug as usual. Read instructions; "Using a 9mm
masonry bit, drill holes for the plugs".

9mm???

Check extensive stock of drill bits. 8mm & 10mm - no 9mm. Check in
Wickes book. No 9mm. Check in SF, TS, ITS catalogues - no 9mm.

Tried 8mm, plug wouldn't go in, tried 10mm, plug spun.

Applied Rule One & binned the bloody things.

Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?

Why would anyone use such a *huge* plug for fixing a radiator to the wall?

5mm would be the biggest I'd consider for such a thing.

I.e. red plastic plugs in 5/5.5mm hole and 5x50 screws.

--
Chris Green

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

NT wrote:
On Dec 11, 12:46 pm, The Medway Handyman
wrote:


Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?

Drill 10mm, put a bit of packing in, tap plugs in.

Drill 9mm, let drill wander about a bit..

NT

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
NT wrote:
On Dec 11, 12:46 pm, The Medway Handyman
wrote:


Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?

Drill 10mm, put a bit of packing in, tap plugs in.

Drill 9mm, let drill wander about a bit..


AKA "The oval bit".

--
Adam

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

Or revert to the well tested and tried plan B: Drill the 10mm hole, cut a
square piece of wood slightly bigger than depth and diameter of hole, cut a
small lead-in taper on the end, bang timber plug into wall, cut off to
length with a chisel and then insert screw (pre-drilling hole in plugs as
necessary).


Sounds like a lot of needless ****ing about to me

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

In article ,
Howard Neil wrote:
On 11/12/2011 12:46, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?


To sell some unusual sized drill bits that they happen to have?

It might be a standard size in other countries. The US, for example, still
uses imperial sizes.

--
*I'm not as think as you drunk I am.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

On Dec 11, 5:42*pm, stuart noble wrote:
Or revert to the well tested and tried plan B: *Drill the 10mm hole, cut a
square piece of wood slightly bigger than depth and diameter of hole, cut a
small lead-in taper on the end, bang timber plug into wall, cut off to
length with a chisel and then insert screw (pre-drilling hole in plugs as
necessary).

Sounds like a lot of needless ****ing about to me

It works but is slow. Also you need to add another step: after the
screw is in, remove it, pack the hole with more wood, then you get a
good solid fix.


NT

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

On Dec 11, 5:26*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
NT wrote:
On Dec 11, 12:46 pm, The Medway Handyman
wrote:

Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?

Drill 10mm, put a bit of packing in, tap plugs in.

Drill 9mm, let drill wander about a bit..



NT

I find that tends to take too long, as 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th wanderings
are never right.


NT

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

On Dec 11, 4:49*pm, Howard Neil wrote:
On 11/12/2011 12:46, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?

To sell some unusual sized drill bits that they happen to have?

No... that would seem to suggest they know what theyre doing


NT

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

On 11/12/2011 17:08, Unbeliever wrote:
Or revert to the well tested and tried plan B: Drill the 10mm hole, cut a
square piece of wood slightly bigger than depth and diameter of hole, cut a
small lead-in taper on the end, bang timber plug into wall, cut off to
length with a chisel and then insert screw (pre-drilling hole in plugs as
necessary).

Far too old-fashioned for TMH to use - or maybe even a too difficult a
solution for him to think of!

And for the purists here who may 'bang on' about sticking a screw in to end
grain - remember the method was around for many years before rawlplugs etc
were invented.

While I have used such a solution in the past (usually with a bradawl
not a drill into the wood), as an amateur my time is not money.
Chucking the plugs out and using a more standard size is probably the
best bet.

Andy

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...

Or revert to the well tested and tried plan B: Drill the 10mm hole, cut
a
square piece of wood slightly bigger than depth and diameter of hole, cut
a
small lead-in taper on the end, bang timber plug into wall, cut off to
length with a chisel and then insert screw (pre-drilling hole in plugs as
necessary).


Sounds like a lot of needless ****ing about to me

It used to be quite common.
I even used old pencils as plugs.
I have seen wooden wedges used for frame fixings for doors and windows too.

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

On 11/12/2011 12:46, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Fixed a Wickes rad to a wall for a customer yesterday.

Rule One of fixing things to walls - throw away screws & fixings
supplied & use your own.

But these looked a bit good. Huge meaty plugs & coach screws.

I broke Rule One & tried to use them.

No size marked on plug as usual. Read instructions; "Using a 9mm masonry
bit, drill holes for the plugs".

9mm???

Check extensive stock of drill bits. 8mm & 10mm - no 9mm. Check in
Wickes book. No 9mm. Check in SF, TS, ITS catalogues - no 9mm.

Tried 8mm, plug wouldn't go in, tried 10mm, plug spun.

Applied Rule One & binned the bloody things.

Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?



I've got a set of universal drill bits which are supposed to drill
anything - from cheese to tungsten - including masonry. I'm pretty sure
there's a 9mm bit in the set (but I'm not going out to the garage now to
check!). I'd drill an 8mm hole with a normal masonry (or more likely,
SDS if in hard brick) bit, and then open it out with a universal bit.

Don't you find, anyway, that the same plugs require a variety of hole
sizes, depending on the hardness and crumbliness of the material you're
drilling?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

stuart noble wrote:
Or revert to the well tested and tried plan B: Drill the 10mm hole,
cut a square piece of wood slightly bigger than depth and diameter
of hole, cut a small lead-in taper on the end, bang timber plug into
wall, cut off to length with a chisel and then insert screw
(pre-drilling hole in plugs as necessary).


Sounds like a lot of needless ****ing about to me

No worse than "****ing about" with bits of packing, stuffing the hole with
god knows what in the way of filler etc, etc, etc. AND .Far cheaper than
spending all that cash on fuel for the van to go hunting for couple of
plugs - and of course, the other advantages are that there is always a bit
of scrap wood in the van, and you can make the thing to fit the hole if a
'soft spot' is hit or you are working on a No-Fine [1] constructed property
where you will never get a 'standard purchased' rawlplug to fit (nor even
rawl anchors and suchlike). Try replacing a door frame in one and the
original built-in anchors/brackets have rusted away.

Just how do you think they fitted door and window frames, handrails,
wallplates et al before someone invented the 'patent plug'? Bloody hell,
they even used lead as plugs on some fittings!

[1] For your information, this is a property built from the early 1950s
on - with the single-skin walls constructed only of cement and 3/4 inch
gravel (NO sand in the mix. The method was developed by McAlpines or
Wimpeys IIRC [but I stand to be corrected]).

Ah well.

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

In article ,
wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Fixed a Wickes rad to a wall for a customer yesterday.

Rule One of fixing things to walls - throw away screws & fixings
supplied & use your own.

But these looked a bit good. Huge meaty plugs & coach screws.

I broke Rule One & tried to use them.

No size marked on plug as usual. Read instructions; "Using a 9mm
masonry bit, drill holes for the plugs".

9mm???

Check extensive stock of drill bits. 8mm & 10mm - no 9mm. Check in
Wickes book. No 9mm. Check in SF, TS, ITS catalogues - no 9mm.

Tried 8mm, plug wouldn't go in, tried 10mm, plug spun.

Applied Rule One & binned the bloody things.

Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?

Why would anyone use such a *huge* plug for fixing a radiator to the wall?

5mm would be the biggest I'd consider for such a thing.

I.e. red plastic plugs in 5/5.5mm hole and 5x50 screws.

you aren't considering the weight of the beast when filled with water.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

On 11/12/2011 22:16, Unbeliever wrote:
stuart noble wrote:
Or revert to the well tested and tried plan B: Drill the 10mm hole,
cut a square piece of wood slightly bigger than depth and diameter
of hole, cut a small lead-in taper on the end, bang timber plug into
wall, cut off to length with a chisel and then insert screw
(pre-drilling hole in plugs as necessary).


Sounds like a lot of needless ****ing about to me

No worse than "****ing about" with bits of packing, stuffing the hole with
god knows what in the way of filler etc, etc, etc. AND .Far cheaper than
spending all that cash on fuel for the van to go hunting for couple of
plugs - and of course, the other advantages are that there is always a bit
of scrap wood in the van, and you can make the thing to fit the hole if a
'soft spot' is hit or you are working on a No-Fine [1] constructed property
where you will never get a 'standard purchased' rawlplug to fit (nor even
rawl anchors and suchlike). Try replacing a door frame in one and the
original built-in anchors/brackets have rusted away.

Just how do you think they fitted door and window frames, handrails,
wallplates et al before someone invented the 'patent plug'? Bloody hell,
they even used lead as plugs on some fittings!

[1] For your information, this is a property built from the early 1950s
on - with the single-skin walls constructed only of cement and 3/4 inch
gravel (NO sand in the mix. The method was developed by McAlpines or
Wimpeys IIRC [but I stand to be corrected]).

Ah well.



Let's not forget the OP had an alternative fixing method to hand, as
would most halfway competent d-i-yers, and we're not living in the 1940s.

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

On Dec 11, 12:46*pm, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
Fixed a Wickes rad to a wall for a customer yesterday.

Rule One of fixing things to walls - throw away screws & fixings
supplied & use your own.

But these looked a bit good. *Huge meaty plugs & coach screws.

I broke Rule One & tried to use them.

No size marked on plug as usual. *Read instructions; "Using a 9mm
masonry bit, drill holes for the plugs".

9mm???

Check extensive stock of drill bits. *8mm & 10mm - no 9mm. *Check in
Wickes book. No 9mm. *Check in SF, TS, ITS catalogues - no 9mm.

Tried 8mm, plug wouldn't go in, tried 10mm, plug spun.

Applied Rule One & binned the bloody things.

Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?

--
Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk

9mm Glock drill :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock_pistol

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

On 11/12/2011 20:22, dennis@home wrote:

It used to be quite common.


So did Rickets.

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

charles wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Fixed a Wickes rad to a wall for a customer yesterday.

Rule One of fixing things to walls - throw away screws & fixings
supplied & use your own.

But these looked a bit good. Huge meaty plugs & coach screws.

I broke Rule One & tried to use them.

No size marked on plug as usual. Read instructions; "Using a 9mm
masonry bit, drill holes for the plugs".

9mm???

Check extensive stock of drill bits. 8mm & 10mm - no 9mm. Check in
Wickes book. No 9mm. Check in SF, TS, ITS catalogues - no 9mm.

Tried 8mm, plug wouldn't go in, tried 10mm, plug spun.

Applied Rule One & binned the bloody things.

Why would anyone make a plug that doesn't use a standard size hole?

Why would anyone use such a *huge* plug for fixing a radiator to the wall?

5mm would be the biggest I'd consider for such a thing.

I.e. red plastic plugs in 5/5.5mm hole and 5x50 screws.

you aren't considering the weight of the beast when filled with water.

Oh yes I am! :-)

If you take the trouble to work out the shear strength of even a
single 5mm screw (and yes, I took into account the fact that the
diameter is considerably less than 5mm) you'll find that it's *way*
more than even the heaviest radiator you could imagine.

What *really* matters is whether the fixing can pull out of the wall
and I find that a properly prepared 4mm/Yellow or 5mm/Red fixing is
perfectly capable of being able to hold a suitably sized screw such
that it won't pull out. Most of the weight of a radiator (or
bookcase, or whatever) will just exert a shear force on the screw and
not that much will try and pull it out.

I have very heavy bookcases and shelving systems carrying tools and
such hanging mostly on 4mm screws in yellow plugs, no sign of anything
falling off in the 12 years or more we have been here.

--
Chris Green

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

On 12/12/2011 16:36, soup wrote:
On 11/12/2011 20:22, dennis@home wrote:

It used to be quite common.


So did Rickets.

.. . which is apparently coming back because people are keeping their
kids out of the sun, to avoid skin cancer!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

"soup" wrote in message ...
On 11/12/2011 20:22, dennis@home wrote:

It used to be quite common.


So did Rickets.

Still is, but that's tradition for you.

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

On 12/12/2011 17:17, Roger Mills wrote:
On 12/12/2011 16:36, soup wrote:
On 11/12/2011 20:22, dennis@home wrote:

It used to be quite common.


So did Rickets.

. . which is apparently coming back because people are keeping their
kids out of the sun, to avoid skin cancer!

There are also problems with certain minorities who tend to cover
themselves completely and have built-in tans.

BTW Vitamin D deficiency appears to be linked with a number of other
diseases, such as MS, and without such a severe deficiency.

Andy

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 20:27:07 -0000, Andy Champ
wrote:

On 12/12/2011 17:17, Roger Mills wrote:
On 12/12/2011 16:36, soup wrote:
On 11/12/2011 20:22, dennis@home wrote:

It used to be quite common.


So did Rickets.

. . which is apparently coming back because people are keeping their
kids out of the sun, to avoid skin cancer!

There are also problems with certain minorities who tend to cover
themselves completely and have built-in tans.

BTW Vitamin D deficiency appears to be linked with a number of other
diseases, such as MS, and without such a severe deficiency.

And when it is associated, it if often unclear whether the disease has
contributed to the low D level, the low D to the disease, they are simply
associated, or what...

Should anyone wish to find out what their D level is, this is possibly the
cheapest decent test in the country:

http://www.vitamindtest.org.uk/

--
Rod

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

On 12/12/2011 16:49, wrote:


What *really* matters is whether the fixing can pull out of the wall
and I find that a properly prepared 4mm/Yellow or 5mm/Red fixing is
perfectly capable of being able to hold a suitably sized screw such
that it won't pull out. Most of the weight of a radiator (or
bookcase, or whatever) will just exert a shear force on the screw and
not that much will try and pull it out.


I'm not sure that's right. In my experience, most of the weight is taken
by friction between the bracket and wall - which requires the screw to
be under sufficient tension to hold the bracket tight against the wall.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:36:53 +0000, soup wrote:

On 11/12/2011 20:22, dennis@home wrote:

It used to be quite common.


So did Rickets.

Their mustard is good.

9mm -mutter, grumble....
 

Roger Mills wrote:
On 12/12/2011 16:49, wrote:


What *really* matters is whether the fixing can pull out of the wall
and I find that a properly prepared 4mm/Yellow or 5mm/Red fixing is
perfectly capable of being able to hold a suitably sized screw such
that it won't pull out. Most of the weight of a radiator (or
bookcase, or whatever) will just exert a shear force on the screw and
not that much will try and pull it out.


I'm not sure that's right. In my experience, most of the weight is taken
by friction between the bracket and wall - which requires the screw to
be under sufficient tension to hold the bracket tight against the wall.

That's a point I suppose. I don't think it affects my basic premise
though, that a properly inserted 4 or 5 mm screw in a wall plug will
carry a huge amount of weight without problems.

Most of my really heavy weights are on shelving systems that use
vertical supports (steel or aluminium) screwed to the wall so, as long
as the screws are tight, I guess quite a lot of weight is (as you say)
carried by friction between the supports and the wall.

With short pressed steel brackets for individual shelves I guess the
top screws do actually have quite a lot of tension on them.

--
Chris Green