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Default Wind not good for wind farms...

Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...1__CK12_14_15_

--
Andrew Gabriel
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On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 17:43:01 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first
one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...tics-16082303?

psdata=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_

I saw that ... I wonder if anything more will be said of it ?
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Jethro wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 17:43:01 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first
one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...tics-16082303?

psdata=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_

I saw that ... I wonder if anything more will be said of it ?


Its official: Wind turbines cant handle...wind!

:-)

No wonder the Scottish wind farms are producing the square root of sweet
fanny adams..

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In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...6082303?psdata
=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_

LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?

The one in flames I found particularly amusing.

That said, the gusts have been particularly fierce, going from nothing
to 80mph in half a second so I'm not surprised things are breaking.

Plenty of brownouts here as lines take hits and that's the effect of
distant ones as HV city feeds are underground for miles.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .
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fred wrote:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first
one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...6082303?psdata

=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_

LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?

The one in flames I found particularly amusing.

That said, the gusts have been particularly fierce, going from nothing
to 80mph in half a second so I'm not surprised things are breaking.

Plenty of brownouts here as lines take hits and that's the effect of
distant ones as HV city feeds are underground for miles.


The bbc rolling commentary (
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...itics-16082303
) reminds me so totally of the 1963 private eye spoof.

You know when the country was under snow for 3 months..

It started with -

"-1C. snow causes traffic chaos, blah"
went through

"-5C seals come ashore in scotland: Old Scottish git says 'I nivver seen
that afore' "

but the coup de grace at the bottom was:

"-25C: fires in British Rail waiting rooms lit".

(in the days when we had steam trains, coal, British Rail and indeed
waiting rooms, and someone to light the fires)




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In article ,
fred writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...6082303?psdata
=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_

LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?

The one in flames I found particularly amusing.


Here it is in more detail...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/md93/se...57628334022703

That said, the gusts have been particularly fierce, going from nothing
to 80mph in half a second so I'm not surprised things are breaking.


Got a colleague stuck at the airport at the moment.
Apparently, British Airways is recommending a "full trip" to
the lavatory prior to departure. I guess that's polite speak
for number 1's and number 2's...

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
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Default Wind not good for wind farms...

In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
fred writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...land-politics-

16082303?psdata
=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_

LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?

The one in flames I found particularly amusing.


Here it is in more detail...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/md93/se...57628334022703

Interestingly the earliest pics show it arse into the wind while the
others appear to be face into. I wonder if there is a failure mode issue
there. Can't really tell whether the blades on it or others have been
stopped to avoid over-wind damage. Ardrossan is a relatively low level
coastal site but fully exposed to the prevailing storm force winds (well
storm force gusts at least).

That said, the gusts have been particularly fierce, going from nothing
to 80mph in half a second so I'm not surprised things are breaking.


Got a colleague stuck at the airport at the moment.
Apparently, British Airways is recommending a "full trip" to
the lavatory prior to departure. I guess that's polite speak
for number 1's and number 2's...

Yep, today I'd be looking for excuses to stay over, whatever the cost.
I'm not risk averse but these conditions have high multiples on
likelihood of disaster so I'd rather be at home (or in a hotel).
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .
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Default Wind not good for wind farms...

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
fred writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...6082303?psdata
=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_

LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?

The one in flames I found particularly amusing.


Here it is in more detail...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/md93/se...57628334022703


Jesus H!

there's lumps falling off that - some of them on fire - and going
hundreds of ywarsd!

And they want to put these things up 400 yards from where people LIVE!!!


That said, the gusts have been particularly fierce, going from nothing
to 80mph in half a second so I'm not surprised things are breaking.


Got a colleague stuck at the airport at the moment.
Apparently, British Airways is recommending a "full trip" to
the lavatory prior to departure. I guess that's polite speak
for number 1's and number 2's...


I landed once in conditions like this..on the short diagonal runway at
Heathrow into the teeth of a souwester.

ill swear the airspeed was about 250 knots till touchdown, but it
stopped awful quick.

The last 5 miles were 'interesting' bit like a roller coaster with e
engines surging and cutting as we bounced from wave to to wave top.

almost rivals Lufthansa with the fog/low cloud - pilot decided to ignore
the glide path and droped down to about 800 feet some 15 miles away from
Zaventem. Delusions of being an ME108 on a strafing run...

Top memory though is Guernsey on a 45mph cross wind ad LOTS of turbulence.

I really didn't think he would actually not abort that one..we were half
way down the runway canted over and sideways before the first wheel
touched. Full credit. He had nearly 12 feet of runway left when we stopped..
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fred wrote:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
fred writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as
first one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...land-politics-
16082303?psdata =11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_
LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?

The one in flames I found particularly amusing.


Here it is in more detail...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/md93/se...57628334022703

Interestingly the earliest pics show it arse into the wind while the
others appear to be face into. I wonder if there is a failure mode
issue there. Can't really tell whether the blades on it or others
have been stopped to avoid over-wind damage. Ardrossan is a
relatively low level coastal site but fully exposed to the prevailing
storm force winds (well storm force gusts at least).


It's the one that dennis designed. It uses the elecricity made by the other
wind turbines to generate wind.

--
Adam


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fred wrote:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
fred writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first
one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...land-politics-

16082303?psdata
=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_

LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?

The one in flames I found particularly amusing.


Here it is in more detail...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/md93/se...57628334022703

Interestingly the earliest pics show it arse into the wind while the
others appear to be face into. I wonder if there is a failure mode issue
there. Can't really tell whether the blades on it or others have been
stopped to avoid over-wind damage. Ardrossan is a relatively low level
coastal site but fully exposed to the prevailing storm force winds (well
storm force gusts at least).

That said, the gusts have been particularly fierce, going from nothing
to 80mph in half a second so I'm not surprised things are breaking.


Got a colleague stuck at the airport at the moment.
Apparently, British Airways is recommending a "full trip" to
the lavatory prior to departure. I guess that's polite speak
for number 1's and number 2's...

Yep, today I'd be looking for excuses to stay over, whatever the cost.
I'm not risk averse but these conditions have high multiples on
likelihood of disaster so I'd rather be at home (or in a hotel).


For those of an aviation bent....

The final verdict on 447

http://www.popularmechanics.com/prin...11877?page=all

and what a total ****ing cockup the copilot made of it.

more incompetent than an EU head of state. But that's socialism. Can't
sack someone because they cant fly a plane. Or run a continent.

Just have to wait till it spirals out of control and kills everyone on
board...

Now who mandated renewable energy across Europe..remind me again...




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ARWadsworth wrote:
fred wrote:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
fred writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as
first one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...land-politics-
16082303?psdata =11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_
LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?

The one in flames I found particularly amusing.
Here it is in more detail...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/md93/se...57628334022703

Interestingly the earliest pics show it arse into the wind while the
others appear to be face into. I wonder if there is a failure mode
issue there. Can't really tell whether the blades on it or others
have been stopped to avoid over-wind damage. Ardrossan is a
relatively low level coastal site but fully exposed to the prevailing
storm force winds (well storm force gusts at least).


It's the one that dennis designed. It uses the elecricity made by the other
wind turbines to generate wind.

been pretty successful at it today then :-)

Can we just give Scotland independence now so we don't have to pay for
it all?

Or buy their overpriced and unreliable wind?

In fact, can we by an Act of Parliament, make harry's house part of
Scotland as well?

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On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 19:03:44 +0000, fred wrote:

In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
fred writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first
one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...land-politics-

16082303?psdata
=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_

LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?

The one in flames I found particularly amusing.


Here it is in more detail...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/md93/se...57628334022703

Interestingly the earliest pics show it arse into the wind while the
others appear to be face into. I wonder if there is a failure mode issue
there. Can't really tell whether the blades on it or others have been
stopped to avoid over-wind damage. Ardrossan is a relatively low level
coastal site but fully exposed to the prevailing storm force winds (well
storm force gusts at least).


One report said it "hadn't been turned on". So there was probably no
control system operational.

Not that that says a lots for fail-safe systems.




--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor
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Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 19:03:44 +0000, fred wrote:

In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
fred writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first
one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...land-politics-
16082303?psdata
=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_

LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?

The one in flames I found particularly amusing.
Here it is in more detail...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/md93/se...57628334022703

Interestingly the earliest pics show it arse into the wind while the
others appear to be face into. I wonder if there is a failure mode issue
there. Can't really tell whether the blades on it or others have been
stopped to avoid over-wind damage. Ardrossan is a relatively low level
coastal site but fully exposed to the prevailing storm force winds (well
storm force gusts at least).


One report said it "hadn't been turned on". So there was probably no
control system operational.


should have been feathered and the handbrake on..mind you if it wasn't
feathered and the handbrake WAS on...that would explain the fire..

Not that that says a lots for fail-safe systems.

Or windmills in general.

The actual versus projected wind output for the UK suggests all the
Scottish farms have shut down, or gone on strike and are sulking.







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On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 20:08:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
fred writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...6082303?psdata
=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_

LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?

The one in flames I found particularly amusing.


Here it is in more detail...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/md93/se...57628334022703


Jesus H!

there's lumps falling off that - some of them on fire - and going
hundreds of ywarsd!

And they want to put these things up 400 yards from where people LIVE!!!


I object to them anywhere within 4000 miles.

Dangerous at any speed


--
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OK I'll say it, its the wrong kind of wind obviously. Simple really.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Jethro wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 17:43:01 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first
one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...tics-16082303?
psdata=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_

I saw that ... I wonder if anything more will be said of it ?


Its official: Wind turbines cant handle...wind!

:-)

No wonder the Scottish wind farms are producing the square root of sweet
fanny adams..





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On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 20:20:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

For those of an aviation bent....

The final verdict on 447

http://www.popularmechanics.com/prin...11877?page=all

and what a total ****ing cockup the copilot made of it.


Probably. But its more than just the competence of the copilot. There
are some invented bits in there worthy of the Daily Mail "Suddenly, a
strange aroma, like an electrical transformer, floods the cockpit"
Where does that snippet of info come from?

more incompetent than an EU head of state. But that's socialism. Can't
sack someone because they cant fly a plane. Or run a continent.


It's fundamental flaws in the training. Spins, real life ones, in
agile training aircraft, with practical application of recovery
techniques are no longer mandated.

Key points are avoid coffin corner at all costs, and if the **** hits
the fan, fly the wing by applying appropriate power and maintaining an
appropriate attitude, expecting the computer to sort it out while
holding the sidestick fully back is not a good idea. They lost the
A320 in the crash in the woods at Mulhouse with actions like that over
20 years ago.

Dropping like a stone in what became a self induced stall from 35000
feet (after zooming to 37000ft) is inexcusable regardless of what the
instruments are telling you. There are also no references to
observations of standby ASI and attitude indicators on the voice
recorder - relying exclusively on the main displays is not good, and
occasionally fatal.

BTW Popular Mechanics does not equal the BEA!


--
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On Thu, 8 Dec 2011 17:43:01 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...1__CK12_14_15_


Thanks. I've just found my new wallpaper


--
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Still nice little job fixing them all coming up I'd imagine.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"The Other Mike" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 20:08:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
fred writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first
one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...6082303?psdata
=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_

LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?

The one in flames I found particularly amusing.

Here it is in more detail...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/md93/se...57628334022703


Jesus H!

there's lumps falling off that - some of them on fire - and going
hundreds of ywarsd!

And they want to put these things up 400 yards from where people LIVE!!!


I object to them anywhere within 4000 miles.

Dangerous at any speed


--



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The Natural Philosopher wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
fred wrote:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
fred writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as
first one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...land-politics-
16082303?psdata =11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_
LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?

The one in flames I found particularly amusing.
Here it is in more detail...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/md93/se...57628334022703

Interestingly the earliest pics show it arse into the wind while the
others appear to be face into. I wonder if there is a failure mode
issue there. Can't really tell whether the blades on it or others
have been stopped to avoid over-wind damage. Ardrossan is a
relatively low level coastal site but fully exposed to the
prevailing storm force winds (well storm force gusts at least).


It's the one that dennis designed. It uses the elecricity made by
the other wind turbines to generate wind.

been pretty successful at it today then :-)

Can we just give Scotland independence now so we don't have to pay for
it all?


Looks like the Nordics want them.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16050269


--
Adam


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On Thu, 8 Dec 2011 22:22:31 -0000
"Brian Gaff" wrote:

OK I'll say it, its the wrong kind of wind obviously. Simple really.

Brian


That's what the insurance company said when I claimed for water damage
in a storage unit. After official pressure, they caved in and paid.
--
Davey.


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Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first one)...


I think the one that planted itself (rather than incinerated itself) was
a private 30m "baby" one on a farm, not part of a windfarm, according to
radio reports.

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Brian Gaff wrote:
Still nice little job fixing them all coming up I'd imagine.
Brian

Probably wont bother.

No grants for fixing em.
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The Other Mike wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 20:20:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

For those of an aviation bent....

The final verdict on 447

http://www.popularmechanics.com/prin...11877?page=all

and what a total ****ing cockup the copilot made of it.


Probably. But its more than just the competence of the copilot. There
are some invented bits in there worthy of the Daily Mail "Suddenly, a
strange aroma, like an electrical transformer, floods the cockpit"
Where does that snippet of info come from?


Perhaps its in the transcript somewhere.

more incompetent than an EU head of state. But that's socialism. Can't
sack someone because they cant fly a plane. Or run a continent.


It's fundamental flaws in the training. Spins, real life ones, in
agile training aircraft, with practical application of recovery
techniques are no longer mandated.

Key points are avoid coffin corner at all costs, and if the **** hits
the fan, fly the wing by applying appropriate power and maintaining an
appropriate attitude, expecting the computer to sort it out while
holding the sidestick fully back is not a good idea. They lost the
A320 in the crash in the woods at Mulhouse with actions like that over
20 years ago.

Dropping like a stone in what became a self induced stall from 35000
feet (after zooming to 37000ft) is inexcusable regardless of what the
instruments are telling you. There are also no references to
observations of standby ASI and attitude indicators on the voice
recorder - relying exclusively on the main displays is not good, and
occasionally fatal.

BTW Popular Mechanics does not equal the BEA!



If you have a better link I want it!

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ARWadsworth wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
fred wrote:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
fred writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as
first one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...land-politics-
16082303?psdata =11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_
LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?

The one in flames I found particularly amusing.
Here it is in more detail...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/md93/se...57628334022703

Interestingly the earliest pics show it arse into the wind while the
others appear to be face into. I wonder if there is a failure mode
issue there. Can't really tell whether the blades on it or others
have been stopped to avoid over-wind damage. Ardrossan is a
relatively low level coastal site but fully exposed to the
prevailing storm force winds (well storm force gusts at least).
It's the one that dennis designed. It uses the elecricity made by
the other wind turbines to generate wind.

been pretty successful at it today then :-)

Can we just give Scotland independence now so we don't have to pay for
it all?


Looks like the Nordics want them.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16050269


Great idea. Put all the Cnuts in one country.
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On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:27:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


If you have a better link I want it!



http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp...90601e1.en.pdf

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp...90601e2.en.pdf

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp...90601e3.en.pdf

http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol....let2011.en.pdf




--


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On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:25:52 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:
Still nice little job fixing them all coming up I'd imagine.
Brian

Probably wont bother.

No grants for fixing em.


Think of all that scrap metal, though, just sitting there doing nothing.
--
Davey.
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The Other Mike wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:27:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


If you have a better link I want it!



http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp...90601e1.en.pdf

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp...90601e2.en.pdf

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp...90601e3.en.pdf

http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol....let2011.en.pdf




Much better
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Davey wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:25:52 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:
Still nice little job fixing them all coming up I'd imagine.
Brian

Probably wont bother.

No grants for fixing em.


Think of all that scrap metal, though, just sitting there doing nothing.


Send in the tinkers
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On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:57:24 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Davey wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:25:52 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:
Still nice little job fixing them all coming up I'd imagine.
Brian

Probably wont bother.

No grants for fixing em.


Think of all that scrap metal, though, just sitting there doing
nothing.


Send in the tinkers


Where did the ex-Dale Farm folks go?
--
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On Dec 8, 8:49*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 19:03:44 +0000, fred wrote:


In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
* * * fred writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first
one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...land-politics-
16082303?psdata
=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_


LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?


The one in flames I found particularly amusing.
Here it is in more detail...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/md93/se...57628334022703


Interestingly the earliest pics show it arse into the wind while the
others appear to be face into. I wonder if there is a failure mode issue
there. Can't really tell whether the blades on it or others have been
stopped to avoid over-wind damage. Ardrossan is a relatively low level
coastal site but fully exposed to the prevailing storm force winds (well
storm force gusts at least).


One report said it "hadn't been turned on". So there was probably no
control system operational.


should have been feathered and the handbrake on..mind you if it wasn't
feathered and the handbrake WAS on...that would explain the fire..

Not that that says a lots for fail-safe systems.


Or windmills in general.


Gusting from zero means that the thing was taken by surprise. I
imagine that the forecasts could have been ignored?

Wind speed ratio to Beaufort number is: Velocity = 0.836 Beaufort
number x 3/2 m/s then you have to convert 80 mph which is off the
scale to start with and doesn't apply to gusts anyway to metres per
second. Though the maths should still work.



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On Dec 8, 10:21*pm, The Other Mike
wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 20:08:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher



wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
* * * *fred writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...olitics-160823....
=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_


LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?


The one in flames I found particularly amusing.


Here it is in more detail...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/md93/se...57628334022703


Jesus H!


there's lumps falling off that - some of them on fire - and going
hundreds of ywarsd!


And they want to put these things up 400 yards from where people LIVE!!!


I object to them anywhere within 4000 miles.

Dangerous at any speed


What isn't?

At least they only fall over with the wind, I'm presuming that the
housing will be in the other direction.

When you remove all fear and all likelihood due to the increase of
safety features then you have less people killed per accident and a
lot less fun.

I remember a programme during which Fred Dibna said that in the old
days, men were men and didn't need all the modern safety laws. Bloody
hell!

OK if you weren't on piecework or working for a bean counter. They
aren't even safe in charge of a bank.

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In article , The Other Mike
scribeth thus
On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 20:20:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

For those of an aviation bent....

The final verdict on 447

http://www.popularmechanics.com/prin...ed-aboard-air-

france-447-6611877?page=all

and what a total ****ing cockup the copilot made of it.


Probably. But its more than just the competence of the copilot. There
are some invented bits in there worthy of the Daily Mail "Suddenly, a
strange aroma, like an electrical transformer, floods the cockpit"
Where does that snippet of info come from?


Most prolly the smell of the electrical discharge mentioned earlier.
I've seen that on a glider canopy and its well shall we say, hair
raising and does have quite a distinct electrical pong;!...



more incompetent than an EU head of state. But that's socialism. Can't
sack someone because they cant fly a plane. Or run a continent.


It's fundamental flaws in the training. Spins, real life ones, in
agile training aircraft, with practical application of recovery
techniques are no longer mandated.

Key points are avoid coffin corner at all costs, and if the **** hits
the fan, fly the wing by applying appropriate power and maintaining an
appropriate attitude, expecting the computer to sort it out while
holding the sidestick fully back is not a good idea. They lost the
A320 in the crash in the woods at Mulhouse with actions like that over
20 years ago.


Yes well training maybe but it seems a problem in the aircraft design
that one of them was in a panic state with the stick back (Bonin) and
the other didn't know what he was doing. Even I'd be very wary of
keeping the stick back for a long time like that, its almost against
natural instinct!...


Dropping like a stone in what became a self induced stall from 35000
feet (after zooming to 37000ft) is inexcusable regardless of what the
instruments are telling you. There are also no references to
observations of standby ASI and attitude indicators on the voice
recorder - relying exclusively on the main displays is not good, and
occasionally fatal.


Indeed..

Pity the captain wasn't called that bit sooner, but in the time its
taken to read that short report and transcript they had gone from dickey
bird to submarine mode;(...

--
Tony Sayer

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On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 10:58:18 +0000, Davey wrote:

On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:57:24 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Davey wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:25:52 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:
Still nice little job fixing them all coming up I'd imagine.
Brian

Probably wont bother.

No grants for fixing em.

Think of all that scrap metal, though, just sitting there doing
nothing.


Send in the tinkers


Where did the ex-Dale Farm folks go?


St Pauls and the LSX.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor
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On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 04:09:30 -0800 (PST), Weatherlawyer wrote:

At least they only fall over with the wind, I'm presuming that the
housing will be in the other direction.


And how do you know which direction the wind is going to come from?
And when they do fall over bits go flying far further than just tip
height.

--
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Dave.



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On Dec 8, 8:28*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
fred wrote:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
* * * fred writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as
first one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...land-politics-
16082303?psdata =11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_
LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?


The one in flames I found particularly amusing.
Here it is in more detail...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/md93/se...57628334022703


Interestingly the earliest pics show it arse into the wind while the
others appear to be face into. I wonder if there is a failure mode
issue there. Can't really tell whether the blades on it or others
have been stopped to avoid over-wind damage. Ardrossan is a
relatively low level coastal site but fully exposed to the prevailing
storm force winds (well storm force gusts at least).


It's the one that dennis designed. It uses the elecricity made by the other
wind turbines to generate wind.


been pretty successful at it today then :-)

Can we just give Scotland independence now so we don't have to pay for
it all?

Or buy their overpriced and unreliable wind?

In fact, can we by an Act of Parliament, make harry's house part of
Scotland as well?


We can swap it for the Tunnocks factory.

MBQ


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On 08/12/2011 22:26, The Other Mike wrote:
....
It's fundamental flaws in the training. Spins, real life ones, in
agile training aircraft, with practical application of recovery
techniques are no longer mandated...


For the simple reason that more aircraft were being lost during spin
training than were lost to spins at any other time.

Colin Bignell
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On 08/12/2011 18:13, fred wrote:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first
one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...6082303?psdata

=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_

LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?

The one in flames I found particularly amusing.

That said, the gusts have been particularly fierce, going from nothing
to 80mph in half a second so I'm not surprised things are breaking.

Plenty of brownouts here as lines take hits and that's the effect of
distant ones as HV city feeds are underground for miles.


It took me an extra hour to get home last night when the power to the
recently opened Hindhead tunnel on the A3 failed and only then was it
discovered that the backup system did not work, so the tunnel was closed.

Colin Bignell


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On 09/12/2011 17:20, Nightjar wrote:
On 08/12/2011 22:26, The Other Mike wrote:
...
It's fundamental flaws in the training. Spins, real life ones, in
agile training aircraft, with practical application of recovery
techniques are no longer mandated...


For the simple reason that more aircraft were being lost during spin
training than were lost to spins at any other time.



Would that be a problem in a simulator? ;-)


--
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On 09/12/2011 10:58, Davey wrote:

Send in the tinkers

Where did the ex-Dale Farm folks go?


Back to Dale Farm?

--
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On 09/12/2011 12:09, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Dec 8, 10:21 pm, The Other
wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 20:08:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher



wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In ,
writes:
In , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Interesting pics at 16:47, 16:38, and 14:48 (might be same as first one)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-...olitics-160823...
=11_3_8_4_9_10__CD11__CK12_14_15_


LMAO, useless in wind, useless in no wind, what is the point?


The one in flames I found particularly amusing.


Here it is in more detail...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/md93/se...57628334022703


Jesus H!


there's lumps falling off that - some of them on fire - and going
hundreds of ywarsd!


And they want to put these things up 400 yards from where people LIVE!!!


I object to them anywhere within 4000 miles.

Dangerous at any speed


What isn't?

At least they only fall over with the wind, I'm presuming that the
housing will be in the other direction.

When you remove all fear and all likelihood due to the increase of
safety features then you have less people killed per accident and a
lot less fun.

I remember a programme during which Fred Dibna said that in the old
days, men were men and didn't need all the modern safety laws. Bloody
hell!

OK if you weren't on piecework or working for a bean counter. They
aren't even safe in charge of a bank.

Friends of ours were evacuated as they were only 300m from the one in
Coldingham.

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