A few months ago I read a longish thread here on Screwfix vs
Toolstation, in which at least some people seemed to think that
Toolstation were better, or at least cheaper. So when I needed to
drill a few holes in plastic (polymethylmethacrylate) I thought I'd give
them a try, as their prices were indeed cheaper than others I could find.

For the 14 mm hole I bought an "HSS Balcksmith Drill Bit" said to have a
reduced shank (item 73936). There's no information either in the
catalogue or online as to the diameter of the shank, but the
illustration shows the shank to be *much* smaller than the drill. So I
got one - it's in an opaque package so I couldn't inspect it in the
shop. When I got it home I found it to have a 12.5 mm shank, so the
transition in size from shank to drill is barely perceptible. I didn't
have a chuck that would take a shank that big, so I could use it only by
grinding the shank down to a sensible size (not easy with my primitive
grinding skills).

I also needed to make some larger holes, so got 10-piece a holesaw kit
(item 23014) which was a lot cheaper than any other I could find. I
can't remember the last time I bought anything of such poor quality.
The hex key rotated without gripping the grub-screw in one of the arbors
(though the other one worked). The saws themselves had a hole with
flats designed to fit one arbor or the other: one of the saws had the
flats too small i.e. the hole was nearly circular, so the saw rotated on
the arbor unless it was done up extremely tightly. Two of the others
had the flats so large so they wouldn't even fit on the arbor designed
for them without being filed down. I took the whole kit back back and
got a refund.

The service from the counter at Toolstation seemed faster than with
Screwfix and they gave me a refund without problems, but if some items
are as poorly described as my drill, and others are of this appallingly
low quality, then I won't bother with Toolstation again, it was a
complete waste of my time.

--
Clive Page

"Clive Page" wrote in message
...
A few months ago I read a longish thread here on Screwfix vs Toolstation,
in which at least some people seemed to think that Toolstation were better,
or at least cheaper. So when I needed to drill a few holes in plastic
(polymethylmethacrylate) I thought I'd give them a try, as their prices
were indeed cheaper than others I could find.

For the 14 mm hole I bought an "HSS Balcksmith Drill Bit" said to have a
reduced shank (item 73936). There's no information either in the
catalogue or online as to the diameter of the shank, but the illustration
shows the shank to be *much* smaller than the drill. So I got one - it's
in an opaque package so I couldn't inspect it in the shop. When I got it
home I found it to have a 12.5 mm shank, so the transition in size from
shank to drill is barely perceptible. I didn't have a chuck that would
take a shank that big, so I could use it only by grinding the shank down
to a sensible size (not easy with my primitive grinding skills).


description does say 'to enable use in standard drill chucks'

All of my drills have 1/2"/13mm chucks which I believe have been standard
for 30 years or more

a quick google for blacksmiths drill bit would have told you the shank size
although many suppliers describe them in the same terms as toolstation

regards

In article ,
Clive Page wrote:
For the 14 mm hole I bought an "HSS Balcksmith Drill Bit" said to have a
reduced shank (item 73936). There's no information either in the
catalogue or online as to the diameter of the shank, but the
illustration shows the shank to be *much* smaller than the drill. So I
got one - it's in an opaque package so I couldn't inspect it in the
shop. When I got it home I found it to have a 12.5 mm shank, so the
transition in size from shank to drill is barely perceptible. I didn't
have a chuck that would take a shank that big, so I could use it only by
grinding the shank down to a sensible size (not easy with my primitive
grinding skills).

IIRC, reduce shank drills are commonly 1/2" nominal. This is or was the
standard max for that size of chuck. A device fitted as standard with a
smaller chuck normally wouldn't have enough power for a larger drill.

--
*Real women don't have hot flashes, they have power surges.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Clive Page wrote:


I also needed to make some larger holes, so got 10-piece a holesaw kit
(item 23014) which was a lot cheaper than any other I could find. I
can't remember the last time I bought anything of such poor quality.
The hex key rotated without gripping the grub-screw in one of the arbors
(though the other one worked). The saws themselves had a hole with
flats designed to fit one arbor or the other: one of the saws had the
flats too small i.e. the hole was nearly circular, so the saw rotated on
the arbor unless it was done up extremely tightly. Two of the others
had the flats so large so they wouldn't even fit on the arbor designed
for them without being filed down. I took the whole kit back back and
got a refund.


I recommend the Bosch holecutters - better than any other make.


--
Tim Watts

Clive Page wrote:

I also needed to make some larger holes, so got 10-piece a holesaw kit
(item 23014) which was a lot cheaper than any other I could find. I
can't remember the last time I bought anything of such poor quality.
The hex key rotated without gripping the grub-screw in one of the
arbors (though the other one worked). The saws themselves had a hole
with flats designed to fit one arbor or the other: one of the saws
had the flats too small i.e. the hole was nearly circular, so the saw
rotated on the arbor unless it was done up extremely tightly. Two of
the others had the flats so large so they wouldn't even fit on the
arbor designed for them without being filed down. I took the whole
kit back back and got a refund.

They do sell some crap at TS, but for very occasional use I might put up
with that rather than pay 3 times as much for SF's cheapest comparable set.



The service from the counter at Toolstation seemed faster than with
Screwfix and they gave me a refund without problems, but if some items
are as poorly described as my drill, and others are of this
appallingly low quality, then I won't bother with Toolstation again,
it was a complete waste of my time.

--
Register as an organ donor with the NHS online. It takes 1 minute and
saves you carrying an organ donor card with you.
http://www.uktransplant.org.uk/ukt/h...me_a_donor.jsp

On Sep 19, 11:21*am, "GB" wrote:

They do sell some crap at TS, but for very occasional use I might put up
with that rather than pay 3 times as much for SF's cheapest comparable set.

In article
,
Andy Dingley wrote:
They certainly do, but the problem is more with Silverline etc. than
with Toolstation, and I don't see Screwfix as being generally much
different. The market is unfortunately hungry for crap tools at low,
low prices, so that's what they sell.

Silverline is a bit like Draper. I doubt they make everything themselves
but simply source it and put on their own brand name. And as such, like
Draper, the quality varies. I have a few Silverline bits and pieces which
are fine. But it is a gamble.

--
*Why isn't 11 pronounced onety one? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/09/2011 10:07, Clive Page wrote:

A few months ago I read a longish thread here on Screwfix vs
Toolstation, in which at least some people seemed to think that
Toolstation were better, or at least cheaper. So when I needed to drill
a few holes in plastic (polymethylmethacrylate) I thought I'd give them
a try, as their prices were indeed cheaper than others I could find.

For the 14 mm hole I bought an "HSS Balcksmith Drill Bit" said to have a
reduced shank (item 73936). There's no information either in the
catalogue or online as to the diameter of the shank, but the
illustration shows the shank to be *much* smaller than the drill. So I
got one - it's in an opaque package so I couldn't inspect it in the
shop. When I got it home I found it to have a 12.5 mm shank, so the
transition in size from shank to drill is barely perceptible. I didn't
have a chuck that would take a shank that big, so I could use it only by
grinding the shank down to a sensible size (not easy with my primitive
grinding skills).

To be fair a 1/2" shank is exactly what one would expect on a drill of
this type. Fits nicely in a 13mm chuck - which is what most decent
drills, drill presses, and lathes etc will have.

I also needed to make some larger holes, so got 10-piece a holesaw kit
(item 23014) which was a lot cheaper than any other I could find. I
can't remember the last time I bought anything of such poor quality. The

Yup, the word to watch for here is "silverline" - TS do lots of it, and
at best the quality can only really be described as barely adequate.
Much of their stuff is pretty poor. Still the price was probably a clue
as well.

The service from the counter at Toolstation seemed faster than with
Screwfix and they gave me a refund without problems, but if some items
are as poorly described as my drill, and others are of this appallingly
low quality, then I won't bother with Toolstation again, it was a
complete waste of my time.

Having established that they do fast service, and change defective
products without complaint, that would seem like a good read *to* use
them again. The lesson worth learning I would have thought is to keep
away from the implausibly cheap stuff made by silverline, blackspur,
forge steel etc,


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:09:40 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 19/09/2011 10:07, Clive Page wrote:

A few months ago I read a longish thread here on Screwfix vs
Toolstation, in which at least some people seemed to think that
Toolstation were better, or at least cheaper. So when I needed to drill
a few holes in plastic (polymethylmethacrylate) I thought I'd give them
a try, as their prices were indeed cheaper than others I could find.

For the 14 mm hole I bought an "HSS Balcksmith Drill Bit" said to have a
reduced shank (item 73936). There's no information either in the
catalogue or online as to the diameter of the shank, but the
illustration shows the shank to be *much* smaller than the drill. So I
got one - it's in an opaque package so I couldn't inspect it in the
shop. When I got it home I found it to have a 12.5 mm shank, so the
transition in size from shank to drill is barely perceptible. I didn't
have a chuck that would take a shank that big, so I could use it only by
grinding the shank down to a sensible size (not easy with my primitive
grinding skills).

To be fair a 1/2" shank is exactly what one would expect on a drill of
this type. Fits nicely in a 13mm chuck - which is what most decent
drills, drill presses, and lathes etc will have.

I also needed to make some larger holes, so got 10-piece a holesaw kit
(item 23014) which was a lot cheaper than any other I could find. I
can't remember the last time I bought anything of such poor quality. The

Yup, the word to watch for here is "silverline" - TS do lots of it, and
at best the quality can only really be described as barely adequate.
Much of their stuff is pretty poor. Still the price was probably a clue
as well.

The service from the counter at Toolstation seemed faster than with
Screwfix and they gave me a refund without problems, but if some items
are as poorly described as my drill, and others are of this appallingly
low quality, then I won't bother with Toolstation again, it was a
complete waste of my time.

Having established that they do fast service, and change defective
products without complaint, that would seem like a good read *to* use
them again. The lesson worth learning I would have thought is to keep
away from the implausibly cheap stuff made by silverline, blackspur,
forge steel etc,


I happen to live near the formerly well-thought of toolshop Isaac Lord.
Yes - they still sell Festool, etc. But they have remodelled and opened up
a significant part of their tool floor. And that is heavily branded
Silverline- which I don't remember them selling in the past. I suppose
their advantage over Toolstation is the ability to see how bad it is
before you buy. But given their significantly higher prices, I don't see
where they are going. Except downhill.

Festool and Silverline make very strange bedfellows.

And in general I now prefer going to Axminster. Which is also local. Not
that I can afford Festool from either of them... :-)

--
Rod

On Sep 19, 11:42*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

*Why isn't 11 pronounced onety one? *

Because it's in base 20, not base 10. See today's XKCD, also counting
in French (mostly) and Danish (almost entirely). Base 20 is still
widely used as the source for spoken counting.

On Sep 19, 12:35*pm, polygonum wrote:
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:09:40 +0100, John Rumm *









wrote:
On 19/09/2011 10:07, Clive Page wrote:

A few months ago I read a longish thread here on Screwfix vs
Toolstation, in which at least some people seemed to think that
Toolstation were better, or at least cheaper. So when I needed to drill
a few holes in plastic (polymethylmethacrylate) I thought I'd give them
a try, as their prices were indeed cheaper than others I could find.

For the 14 mm hole I bought an "HSS Balcksmith Drill Bit" said to have a
reduced shank (item 73936). There's no information either in the
catalogue or online as to the diameter of the shank, but the
illustration shows the shank to be *much* smaller than the drill. So I
got one - it's in an opaque package so I couldn't inspect it in the
shop. When I got it home I found it to have a 12.5 mm shank, so the
transition in size from shank to drill is barely perceptible. I didn't
have a chuck that would take a shank that big, so I could use it only by
grinding the shank down to a sensible size (not easy with my primitive
grinding skills).

To be fair a 1/2" shank is exactly what one would expect on a drill of *
this type. Fits nicely in a 13mm chuck - which is what most decent *
drills, drill presses, and lathes etc will have.

I also needed to make some larger holes, so got 10-piece a holesaw kit
(item 23014) which was a lot cheaper than any other I could find. I
can't remember the last time I bought anything of such poor quality. The

Yup, the word to watch for here is "silverline" - TS do lots of it, and *
at best the quality can only really be described as barely adequate. *
Much of their stuff is pretty poor. Still the price was probably a clue *
as well.

The service from the counter at Toolstation seemed faster than with
Screwfix and they gave me a refund without problems, but if some items
are as poorly described as my drill, and others are of this appallingly
low quality, then I won't bother with Toolstation again, it was a
complete waste of my time.

Having established that they do fast service, and change defective *
products without complaint, that would seem like a good read *to* use *
them again. The lesson worth learning I would have thought is to keep *
away from the implausibly cheap stuff made by silverline, blackspur, *
forge steel etc,

I happen to live near the formerly well-thought of toolshop Isaac Lord. *
Yes - they still sell Festool, etc. But they have remodelled and opened up *
a significant part of their tool floor. And that is heavily branded *
Silverline- which I don't remember them selling in the past. I suppose *
their advantage over Toolstation is the ability to see how bad it is *
before you buy. But given their significantly higher prices, I don't see *
where they are going. Except downhill.

Festool and Silverline make very strange bedfellows.

Perhaps the buyers were trained by the same people who trained the
counter staff in dealing with the public? Despite it being an easy
lunchtime outing I will NEVER spend money at Isaac Lord.

MBQ

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 16:25:24 +0100, Man at B&Q
wrote:

On Sep 19, 12:35 pm, polygonum wrote:
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:09:40 +0100, John Rumm








wrote:
On 19/09/2011 10:07, Clive Page wrote:

A few months ago I read a longish thread here on Screwfix vs
Toolstation, in which at least some people seemed to think that
Toolstation were better, or at least cheaper. So when I needed to
drill
a few holes in plastic (polymethylmethacrylate) I thought I'd give
them
a try, as their prices were indeed cheaper than others I could find.

For the 14 mm hole I bought an "HSS Balcksmith Drill Bit" said to
have a
reduced shank (item 73936). There's no information either in the
catalogue or online as to the diameter of the shank, but the
illustration shows the shank to be *much* smaller than the drill. So
I
got one - it's in an opaque package so I couldn't inspect it in the
shop. When I got it home I found it to have a 12.5 mm shank, so the
transition in size from shank to drill is barely perceptible. I
didn't
have a chuck that would take a shank that big, so I could use it
only by
grinding the shank down to a sensible size (not easy with my
primitive
grinding skills).

To be fair a 1/2" shank is exactly what one would expect on a drill
of this type. Fits nicely in a 13mm chuck - which is what most decent
drills, drill presses, and lathes etc will have.

I also needed to make some larger holes, so got 10-piece a holesaw
kit
(item 23014) which was a lot cheaper than any other I could find. I
can't remember the last time I bought anything of such poor quality.
The

Yup, the word to watch for here is "silverline" - TS do lots of it,
and at best the quality can only really be described as barely
adequate. Much of their stuff is pretty poor. Still the price was
probably a clue as well.

The service from the counter at Toolstation seemed faster than with
Screwfix and they gave me a refund without problems, but if some
items
are as poorly described as my drill, and others are of this
appallingly
low quality, then I won't bother with Toolstation again, it was a
complete waste of my time.

Having established that they do fast service, and change defective
products without complaint, that would seem like a good read *to* use
them again. The lesson worth learning I would have thought is to keep
away from the implausibly cheap stuff made by silverline, blackspur,
forge steel etc,

I happen to live near the formerly well-thought of toolshop Isaac Lord.
Yes - they still sell Festool, etc. But they have remodelled and
opened up a significant part of their tool floor. And that is heavily
branded Silverline- which I don't remember them selling in the past. I
suppose their advantage over Toolstation is the ability to see how bad
it is before you buy. But given their significantly higher prices, I
don't see where they are going. Except downhill.

Festool and Silverline make very strange bedfellows.

Perhaps the buyers were trained by the same people who trained the
counter staff in dealing with the public? Despite it being an easy
lunchtime outing I will NEVER spend money at Isaac Lord.

MBQ

Have to say, last time I was there, wanted a blade for a hand mitre saw
which had been bought there several years ago. When served I had longer
and shorter ones offered, obviously useless - and told to get the length I
needed from the internet. Went to Axminster and got two for about half the
price of the ones Isaac Lord had (i.e. wrong sized ones).

Isaac Lord's trade counter is still very useful, but having Axminster and
Screwfix within a few hundred metres of each other certainly diminishes
the usefulness/acceptability of the shop itself.

--
Rod

On 19/09/2011 12:09, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/09/2011 10:07, Clive Page wrote:

A few months ago I read a longish thread here on Screwfix vs
Toolstation, in which at least some people seemed to think that
Toolstation were better, or at least cheaper. So when I needed to drill
a few holes in plastic (polymethylmethacrylate) I thought I'd give them
a try, as their prices were indeed cheaper than others I could find.

For the 14 mm hole I bought an "HSS Balcksmith Drill Bit" said to have a
reduced shank (item 73936). There's no information either in the
catalogue or online as to the diameter of the shank, but the
illustration shows the shank to be *much* smaller than the drill. So I
got one - it's in an opaque package so I couldn't inspect it in the
shop. When I got it home I found it to have a 12.5 mm shank, so the
transition in size from shank to drill is barely perceptible. I didn't
have a chuck that would take a shank that big, so I could use it only by
grinding the shank down to a sensible size (not easy with my primitive
grinding skills).

To be fair a 1/2" shank is exactly what one would expect on a drill of
this type. Fits nicely in a 13mm chuck - which is what most decent
drills, drill presses, and lathes etc will have.

I also needed to make some larger holes, so got 10-piece a holesaw kit
(item 23014) which was a lot cheaper than any other I could find. I
can't remember the last time I bought anything of such poor quality. The

Yup, the word to watch for here is "silverline" - TS do lots of it, and
at best the quality can only really be described as barely adequate.
Much of their stuff is pretty poor. Still the price was probably a clue
as well.

Silverline drill bits are actually made from recycled cheese. Trust me.




--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Sep 19, 11:29*am, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Sep 19, 11:21*am, "GB" wrote:

They do sell some crap at TS, but for very occasional use I might put up
with that rather than pay 3 times as much for SF's cheapest comparable set.

They certainly do, but the problem is more with Silverline etc. than
with Toolstation, and I don't see Screwfix as being generally much
different. *The market is unfortunately hungry for crap tools at low,
low prices, so that's what they sell.

A better quality (broadly) can be found at Tooltastic (there's a trade
counter in Bristol), which is the new retail arm of Buck & Hickman.
You can get top quality stuff here, but you will have to pay for it.

Silverline stuff is normally functional. Black Spur OTOH...


NT

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 21:35:29 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article ,
polygonum wrote:

needed from the internet. Went to Axminster and got two for about half
the price of the ones Isaac Lord had (i.e. wrong sized ones).

Axminster? You're not thinking of Cyril Lord are you?


Definitely wasn't.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster...rehighwycombe/

But I am now, damn you.

--
Rod

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Silverline drill bits are actually made from recycled cheese. Trust me.

Not all. I bought a Silverline 'helicoil' set off Ebay and that included
the correct size drill. Which drilled several holes in mild steel without
problems. As I said, their quality varies.

--
*The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Clive Page" wrote in message
...
A few months ago I read a longish thread here on Screwfix vs Toolstation,
in which at least some people seemed to think that Toolstation were better,
or at least cheaper. So when I needed to drill a few holes in plastic
(polymethylmethacrylate) I thought I'd give them a try, as their prices
were indeed cheaper than others I could find.

For the 14 mm hole I bought an "HSS Balcksmith Drill Bit" said to have a
reduced shank (item 73936). There's no information either in the
catalogue or online as to the diameter of the shank, but the illustration
shows the shank to be *much* smaller than the drill. So I got one - it's
in an opaque package so I couldn't inspect it in the shop. When I got it
home I found it to have a 12.5 mm shank, so the transition in size from
shank to drill is barely perceptible. I didn't have a chuck that would
take a shank that big, so I could use it only by grinding the shank down
to a sensible size (not easy with my primitive grinding skills).

I also needed to make some larger holes, so got 10-piece a holesaw kit
(item 23014) which was a lot cheaper than any other I could find. I can't
remember the last time I bought anything of such poor quality. The hex key
rotated without gripping the grub-screw in one of the arbors (though the
other one worked). The saws themselves had a hole with flats designed to
fit one arbor or the other: one of the saws had the flats too small i.e.
the hole was nearly circular, so the saw rotated on the arbor unless it
was done up extremely tightly. Two of the others had the flats so large
so they wouldn't even fit on the arbor designed for them without being
filed down. I took the whole kit back back and got a refund.

The service from the counter at Toolstation seemed faster than with
Screwfix and they gave me a refund without problems, but if some items are
as poorly described as my drill, and others are of this appallingly low
quality, then I won't bother with Toolstation again, it was a complete
waste of my time.



Branded as Silverline any of them? If so, no real surprise- their stuff is
seriously crap.

Tim..

On 19/09/2011 21:48, polygonum wrote:
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 21:35:29 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article ,
polygonum wrote:

needed from the internet. Went to Axminster and got two for about
half the price of the ones Isaac Lord had (i.e. wrong sized ones).

Axminster? You're not thinking of Cyril Lord are you?


Definitely wasn't.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster...rehighwycombe/


But I am now, damn you.


"This is luxury you can afford...
By Isaac Lord!"

No, that's not quite it.

With apologies if there's anyone under 50 trying to make sense of this.
Unlikely, I know.



--
Kevin Poole