|
Crimp, solder, both?
Just assembling my 12V battery cables for the camper.
External diameter of copper cable inner is around 5mm. Internal diameter of connector (ring terminal) is nearly 8mm. So not a tight fit. I was intending to crimp - not sure now if I should cut a slot in the tube to allow the connector to crimp down further or just flatten it out to get a grip. Looks as though it has been folded then welded/brazed shut so I would be undoing this last bit. As it isn't as snug as I was expecting I am now wondering if I should run some solder in as well. Just solder doesn't look as though it would give a secure enough joint - and I've never soldered multi-strand wire this thick before. Items are http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.u...55/category/32 item 070907 and http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.u...2/category/124 item 010601 Cheers Dave R -- No plan survives contact with the enemy. [Not even bunny] Helmuth von Moltke the Elder (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
Crimp, solder, both?
On Jul 16, 4:46*pm, "David WE Roberts"
wrote: Just assembling my 12V battery cables for the camper. External diameter of copper cable inner is around 5mm. Internal diameter of connector (ring terminal) is nearly 8mm. So not a tight fit. I was intending to crimp - not sure now if I should cut a slot in the tube to allow the connector to crimp down further or just flatten it out to get a grip. Looks as though it has been folded then welded/brazed shut so I would be undoing this last bit. As it isn't as snug as I was expecting I am now wondering if I should run some solder in as well. Just solder doesn't look as though it would give a secure enough joint - and I've never soldered multi-strand wire this thick before. Items arehttp://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/155/category/32item 070907 andhttp://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/752/category/124item 010601 Cheers Dave R -- No plan survives contact with the enemy. [Not even bunny] Helmuth von Moltke the Elder (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") Step 1 - Buy the right terminal - one that fits closely. With a fine multistrand cable like that, I would crimp (with the right terminal, and a heavy duty tool), and possibly solder as well (if I had a hefty enough soldering iron). |
Crimp, solder, both?
On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:46:53 +0100, "David WE Roberts"
wrote: Just assembling my 12V battery cables for the camper. External diameter of copper cable inner is around 5mm. Internal diameter of connector (ring terminal) is nearly 8mm. So not a tight fit. I was intending to crimp - not sure now if I should cut a slot in the tube to allow the connector to crimp down further or just flatten it out to get a grip. Looks as though it has been folded then welded/brazed shut so I would be undoing this last bit. As it isn't as snug as I was expecting I am now wondering if I should run some solder in as well. Just solder doesn't look as though it would give a secure enough joint - and I've never soldered multi-strand wire this thick before. Items are http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.u...55/category/32 item 070907 and http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.u...2/category/124 item 010601 You could sleeve the wire with a very short bit of 8mm "microbore" copper pipe. The whole lot should crimp up better. -- Frank Erskine |
Crimp, solder, both?
On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:46:53 +0100, "David WE Roberts"
wrote: As it isn't as snug as I was expecting I am now wondering if I should run some solder in as well. With the right tool and matching crimp and cable a crimp connection will almost always be more secure and reliable than a solder connection. This is especially so if the joint is exposed to vibration. Adding solder to a good crimp joint reduces its reliability. |
Crimp, solder, both?
In article , Peter Parry
scribeth thus On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:46:53 +0100, "David WE Roberts" wrote: As it isn't as snug as I was expecting I am now wondering if I should run some solder in as well. With the right tool and matching crimp and cable a crimp connection will almost always be more secure and reliable than a solder connection. This is especially so if the joint is exposed to vibration. Adding solder to a good crimp joint reduces its reliability. Why should that be?. Not that you'd what to do both normally;!... -- Tony Sayer |
Crimp, solder, both?
In article ,
tony sayer wrote: With the right tool and matching crimp and cable a crimp connection will almost always be more secure and reliable than a solder connection. This is especially so if the joint is exposed to vibration. Adding solder to a good crimp joint reduces its reliability. Why should that be?. Not that you'd what to do both normally;!... Try making a solder connection to a terminal that can be crimped and a second crimped one. Flex the wire until it breaks. The solder one will do so much sooner. -- *When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Crimp, solder, both?
In message , tony sayer
writes In article , Peter Parry scribeth thus On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:46:53 +0100, "David WE Roberts" wrote: As it isn't as snug as I was expecting I am now wondering if I should run some solder in as well. With the right tool and matching crimp and cable a crimp connection will almost always be more secure and reliable than a solder connection. This is especially so if the joint is exposed to vibration. Adding solder to a good crimp joint reduces its reliability. Why should that be?. Not that you'd what to do both normally;!... Hi Tony, If you tin the wire first and then crimp, the solder has a habit of creeping over time and loosening the joint. If you solder to the crimp tag then you have a solid firm joint that with vibration/movement may fracture. With just a crimp there is a bit more flexibility at the junction of the cable and crimp. I'm sure someone will be along in a while to give a better explanation, I have seen it discussed here before. -- Bill |
Crimp, solder, both?
In message , tony sayer
writes In article , Peter Parry scribeth thus On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:46:53 +0100, "David WE Roberts" wrote: As it isn't as snug as I was expecting I am now wondering if I should run some solder in as well. With the right tool and matching crimp and cable a crimp connection will almost always be more secure and reliable than a solder connection. This is especially so if the joint is exposed to vibration. Adding solder to a good crimp joint reduces its reliability. Why should that be?. Not that you'd what to do both normally;!... Reduced flexibility, individual strands are liable to break away I remember there was a long discussion here years ago when {what was his name who worked for the BBC and rode a bike} brought up the discussion with regard to motorbike harnesses -- geoff |
Crimp, solder, both?
On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 14:28:04 +0100, tony sayer
wrote: Why should that be?. Not that you'd what to do both normally;!... Firstly, many solder joints are not well done, secondly the solder wicks up the cable and creates a short rigid length of cable going beyond the neck of the connector. The heat partially embrtittles the cable and its insulated coating and the wire breaks more easily at the "hard spot" at the sharp solder boundary. In addition the flux can cause corrosion. Almost the only reason for failure in crimp connectors is the use of incorrect tools such as the silly pliers supplied with cheap crimp kits. You even get some people trying to attach crimp joints using pliers or wire cutters. For high current (several hundred amp) cables it is usually better to cut the wires to length and pay someone with the right hydraulic tools to fit the terminations. |
Crimp, solder, both?
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus In article , tony sayer wrote: With the right tool and matching crimp and cable a crimp connection will almost always be more secure and reliable than a solder connection. This is especially so if the joint is exposed to vibration. Adding solder to a good crimp joint reduces its reliability. Why should that be?. Not that you'd what to do both normally;!... Try making a solder connection to a terminal that can be crimped and a second crimped one. Flex the wire until it breaks. The solder one will do so much sooner. Who said anything about destructive testing;?.. -- Tony Sayer |
Crimp, solder, both?
In article , Bill
scribeth thus In message , tony sayer writes In article , Peter Parry scribeth thus On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:46:53 +0100, "David WE Roberts" wrote: As it isn't as snug as I was expecting I am now wondering if I should run some solder in as well. With the right tool and matching crimp and cable a crimp connection will almost always be more secure and reliable than a solder connection. This is especially so if the joint is exposed to vibration. Adding solder to a good crimp joint reduces its reliability. Why should that be?. Not that you'd what to do both normally;!... Hi Tony, If you tin the wire first and then crimp, the solder has a habit of creeping over time and loosening the joint. If you solder to the crimp tag then you have a solid firm joint that with vibration/movement may fracture. With just a crimp there is a bit more flexibility at the junction of the cable and crimp. I'm sure someone will be along in a while to give a better explanation, I have seen it discussed here before. Done both overt time and can't recall any failures.. -- Tony Sayer |
Crimp, solder, both?
In article , Peter Parry
scribeth thus On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 14:28:04 +0100, tony sayer wrote: Why should that be?. Not that you'd what to do both normally;!... Firstly, many solder joints are not well done, secondly the solder wicks up the cable and creates a short rigid length of cable going beyond the neck of the connector. The heat partially embrtittles the cable and its insulated coating and the wire breaks more easily at the "hard spot" at the sharp solder boundary. In addition the flux can cause corrosion. Cannot say I've ever seen that happen.. Unless you deliberately mistreat joints.. Almost the only reason for failure in crimp connectors is the use of incorrect tools such as the silly pliers supplied with cheap crimp kits. You even get some people trying to attach crimp joints using pliers or wire cutters. Indeed as you get "iffy" soldered joints;!.. For high current (several hundred amp) cables it is usually better to cut the wires to length and pay someone with the right hydraulic tools to fit the terminations. Yes a decent crimp like a decent soldered joint and I've seen enough bad ones in my time!.. So the only failure is that the solder might creep up the cable and cause a fracture, no other reason then?.. -- Tony Sayer |
Crimp, solder, both?
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Bill scribeth thus In message , tony sayer writes In article , Peter Parry scribeth thus On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:46:53 +0100, "David WE Roberts" wrote: As it isn't as snug as I was expecting I am now wondering if I should run some solder in as well. With the right tool and matching crimp and cable a crimp connection will almost always be more secure and reliable than a solder connection. This is especially so if the joint is exposed to vibration. Adding solder to a good crimp joint reduces its reliability. Why should that be?. Not that you'd what to do both normally;!... Hi Tony, If you tin the wire first and then crimp, the solder has a habit of creeping over time and loosening the joint. If you solder to the crimp tag then you have a solid firm joint that with vibration/movement may fracture. With just a crimp there is a bit more flexibility at the junction of the cable and crimp. I'm sure someone will be along in a while to give a better explanation, I have seen it discussed here before. Done both overt time and can't recall any failures.. He has it aright. Maybe you have done static installations. I've done a lot of R/C and a fair bit of mobile kit. Yes, they can and do fail where the solder stops. the secret is to extend the support to the wire insulation upstream of the joint in some way. Heatshrink, epoxy resin.... and if you must use solder, use solder for the whole joint. Don't crimp soldered wire |
Crimp, solder, both?
In article ,
tony sayer wrote: In article , Dave Plowman (News) scribeth thus In article , tony sayer wrote: With the right tool and matching crimp and cable a crimp connection will almost always be more secure and reliable than a solder connection. This is especially so if the joint is exposed to vibration. Adding solder to a good crimp joint reduces its reliability. Why should that be?. Not that you'd what to do both normally;!... Try making a solder connection to a terminal that can be crimped and a second crimped one. Flex the wire until it breaks. The solder one will do so much sooner. Who said anything about destructive testing;?.. I think Murphy usually does that bit post-installation ! Nick -- Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 29th March 2010) "The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life" -- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996 |
Crimp, solder, both?
On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:46:53 +0100, David WE Roberts wrote:
Just assembling my 12V battery cables for the camper. External diameter of copper cable inner is around 5mm. Internal diameter of connector (ring terminal) is nearly 8mm. So not a tight fit. I was intending to crimp - not sure now if I should cut a slot in the tube to allow the connector to crimp down further or just flatten it out to get a grip. Looks as though it has been folded then welded/brazed shut so I would be undoing this last bit. As it isn't as snug as I was expecting I am now wondering if I should run some solder in as well. Just solder doesn't look as though it would give a secure enough joint - and I've never soldered multi-strand wire this thick before. Items are http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.u...55/category/32 item 070907 and http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.u...2/category/124 item 010601 Got the wrong size crimps then? That sounds like 16mm2 cable to me, with (probably) a 25mm2 lug. Filling them with solder is never really satisfactory in the long term. It may be worth finding someone who will donate a couple of smaller crimps & fit them with a proper crimping tool. -- Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!) Web: http://www.nascom.info Filtering everything posted from googlegroups to kill spam. |
Crimp, solder, both?
In article ,
geoff writes: I remember there was a long discussion here years ago when {what was his name who worked for the BBC and rode a bike} brought up the discussion with regard to motorbike harnesses Matthew Marks? Worked for BBC and used to do our FAQ, but I don't know about the bike bit. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
Crimp, solder, both?
In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes In article , geoff writes: I remember there was a long discussion here years ago when {what was his name who worked for the BBC and rode a bike} brought up the discussion with regard to motorbike harnesses Matthew Marks? Worked for BBC and used to do our FAQ, but I don't know about the bike bit. Thats him -- geoff |
Crimp, solder, both?
"mick" wrote in message b.com... On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:46:53 +0100, David WE Roberts wrote: Just assembling my 12V battery cables for the camper. External diameter of copper cable inner is around 5mm. Internal diameter of connector (ring terminal) is nearly 8mm. So not a tight fit. I was intending to crimp - not sure now if I should cut a slot in the tube to allow the connector to crimp down further or just flatten it out to get a grip. Looks as though it has been folded then welded/brazed shut so I would be undoing this last bit. As it isn't as snug as I was expecting I am now wondering if I should run some solder in as well. Just solder doesn't look as though it would give a secure enough joint - and I've never soldered multi-strand wire this thick before. Items are http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.u...55/category/32 item 070907 and http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.u...2/category/124 item 010601 Got the wrong size crimps then? That sounds like 16mm2 cable to me, with (probably) a 25mm2 lug. Filling them with solder is never really satisfactory in the long term. It may be worth finding someone who will donate a couple of smaller crimps & fit them with a proper crimping tool. The link shows a 20mm^2 cable - so I assume it is this. The other link offers connectors up to 16mm^2 and up to 25mm^2. So for 20mm^2 I have to go for the 'up to 25mm^2'. -- No plan survives contact with the enemy. [Not even bunny] Helmuth von Moltke the Elder (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
Crimp, solder, both?
In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus tony sayer wrote: In article , Bill scribeth thus In message , tony sayer writes In article , Peter Parry scribeth thus On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:46:53 +0100, "David WE Roberts" wrote: As it isn't as snug as I was expecting I am now wondering if I should run some solder in as well. With the right tool and matching crimp and cable a crimp connection will almost always be more secure and reliable than a solder connection. This is especially so if the joint is exposed to vibration. Adding solder to a good crimp joint reduces its reliability. Why should that be?. Not that you'd what to do both normally;!... Hi Tony, If you tin the wire first and then crimp, the solder has a habit of creeping over time and loosening the joint. If you solder to the crimp tag then you have a solid firm joint that with vibration/movement may fracture. With just a crimp there is a bit more flexibility at the junction of the cable and crimp. I'm sure someone will be along in a while to give a better explanation, I have seen it discussed here before. Done both overt time and can't recall any failures.. He has it aright. Maybe you have done static installations. I've done a lot of R/C and a fair bit of mobile kit. Yes, they can and do fail where the solder stops. Mobile and static not aircraft tho;!. But apart from this solder wicking effect which might cause a mech fail if the joint was pulled around enough, don't seem to be any other failure mode does there?... the secret is to extend the support to the wire insulation upstream of the joint in some way. Heatshrink, epoxy resin.... and if you must use solder, use solder for the whole joint. Don't crimp soldered wire -- Tony Sayer |
Crimp, solder, both?
In article , David WE Roberts
scribeth thus "mick" wrote in message eb.com... On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:46:53 +0100, David WE Roberts wrote: Just assembling my 12V battery cables for the camper. External diameter of copper cable inner is around 5mm. Internal diameter of connector (ring terminal) is nearly 8mm. So not a tight fit. I was intending to crimp - not sure now if I should cut a slot in the tube to allow the connector to crimp down further or just flatten it out to get a grip. Looks as though it has been folded then welded/brazed shut so I would be undoing this last bit. As it isn't as snug as I was expecting I am now wondering if I should run some solder in as well. Just solder doesn't look as though it would give a secure enough joint - and I've never soldered multi-strand wire this thick before. Items are http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.u...55/category/32 item 070907 and http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.u...2/category/124 item 010601 Got the wrong size crimps then? That sounds like 16mm2 cable to me, with (probably) a 25mm2 lug. Filling them with solder is never really satisfactory in the long term. It may be worth finding someone who will donate a couple of smaller crimps & fit them with a proper crimping tool. The link shows a 20mm^2 cable - so I assume it is this. The other link offers connectors up to 16mm^2 and up to 25mm^2. So for 20mm^2 I have to go for the 'up to 25mm^2'. We used to use over size lugs on 40 kW TV 'mitters and they had to be sort of crimped and soldered .. dunno know quite why except that the BBC wanted them that way;!... -- Tony Sayer |
Crimp, solder, both?
In article ,
tony sayer wrote: Mobile and static not aircraft tho;!. But apart from this solder wicking effect which might cause a mech fail if the joint was pulled around enough, don't seem to be any other failure mode does there?... Soldering is obviously fine on connectors designed for it. But on cars and in this case a camper, all the loom connectors are crimped. Of course on such a large cable it may not make much difference in the end. Although it's probably easier to make a reasonable solder joint than crimp, if you don't have the correct crimping tool. Assuming you can solder. ;-) -- *Why is the time of day with the slowest traffic called rush hour? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Crimp, solder, both?
tony sayer wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher scribeth thus tony sayer wrote: In article , Bill scribeth thus In message , tony sayer writes In article , Peter Parry scribeth thus On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:46:53 +0100, "David WE Roberts" wrote: As it isn't as snug as I was expecting I am now wondering if I should run some solder in as well. With the right tool and matching crimp and cable a crimp connection will almost always be more secure and reliable than a solder connection. This is especially so if the joint is exposed to vibration. Adding solder to a good crimp joint reduces its reliability. Why should that be?. Not that you'd what to do both normally;!... Hi Tony, If you tin the wire first and then crimp, the solder has a habit of creeping over time and loosening the joint. If you solder to the crimp tag then you have a solid firm joint that with vibration/movement may fracture. With just a crimp there is a bit more flexibility at the junction of the cable and crimp. I'm sure someone will be along in a while to give a better explanation, I have seen it discussed here before. Done both overt time and can't recall any failures.. He has it aright. Maybe you have done static installations. I've done a lot of R/C and a fair bit of mobile kit. Yes, they can and do fail where the solder stops. Mobile and static not aircraft tho;!. But apart from this solder wicking effect which might cause a mech fail if the joint was pulled around enough, don't seem to be any other failure mode does there?... crimping soft solder is bad, because it has low elasticity. It ends up progressively squashing under stress, getting loose and falling out. the secret is to extend the support to the wire insulation upstream of the joint in some way. Heatshrink, epoxy resin.... and if you must use solder, use solder for the whole joint. Don't crimp soldered wire |
Crimp, solder, both?
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , tony sayer wrote: Mobile and static not aircraft tho;!. But apart from this solder wicking effect which might cause a mech fail if the joint was pulled around enough, don't seem to be any other failure mode does there?... Soldering is obviously fine on connectors designed for it. But on cars and in this case a camper, all the loom connectors are crimped. Of course on such a large cable it may not make much difference in the end. Although it's probably easier to make a reasonable solder joint than crimp, if you don't have the correct crimping tool. Assuming you can solder. ;-) Cars are crimped because its cheaper than doing a proper supported solder job. And its very good with automatic equipment. Soldering is a more manual process. |
Crimp, solder, both?
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , tony sayer wrote: Mobile and static not aircraft tho;!. But apart from this solder wicking effect which might cause a mech fail if the joint was pulled around enough, don't seem to be any other failure mode does there?... Soldering is obviously fine on connectors designed for it. But on cars and in this case a camper, all the loom connectors are crimped. Of course on such a large cable it may not make much difference in the end. Although it's probably easier to make a reasonable solder joint than crimp, if you don't have the correct crimping tool. Assuming you can solder. ;-) Cars are crimped because its cheaper than doing a proper supported solder job. And its very good with automatic equipment. Soldering is a more manual process. They are crimped because it is more reliable in the environment. I wonder if they solder the looms on aircraft? |
Crimp, solder, both?
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Cars are crimped because its cheaper than doing a proper supported solder job. And its very good with automatic equipment. Soldering is a more manual process. Your computer is soldered by hand? -- *There are two sides to every divorce: Yours and **** head's* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Crimp, solder, both?
On Jul 19, 12:44*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: In article , * *The Natural Philosopher wrote: Cars are crimped because its cheaper than doing a proper supported solder job. And its very good with automatic equipment. Soldering is a more manual process. Your computer is soldered by hand? His keyboard clearly was. One hand, blindfold. |
Crimp, solder, both?
dennis@home wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , tony sayer wrote: Mobile and static not aircraft tho;!. But apart from this solder wicking effect which might cause a mech fail if the joint was pulled around enough, don't seem to be any other failure mode does there?... Soldering is obviously fine on connectors designed for it. But on cars and in this case a camper, all the loom connectors are crimped. Of course on such a large cable it may not make much difference in the end. Although it's probably easier to make a reasonable solder joint than crimp, if you don't have the correct crimping tool. Assuming you can solder. ;-) Cars are crimped because its cheaper than doing a proper supported solder job. And its very good with automatic equipment. Soldering is a more manual process. They are crimped because it is more reliable in the environment. I wonder if they solder the looms on aircraft? That depends. The way I was taught in the 60's was to solder the loom but absolutely to have a tie to tie the loom to the structure so it couldn't flex with respect to the joint. Crimps CAN be more reliable, but are prone to corrosion inside the crimp itself. As any car electrician can tell you. I would say that solder is far more reliable than a mechanical connection PROVIDED the strain relief is done properly. If it is not, crimps are far more reliable. |
Crimp, solder, both?
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: Cars are crimped because its cheaper than doing a proper supported solder job. And its very good with automatic equipment. Soldering is a more manual process. Your computer is soldered by hand? Wires mostly are, yes. That is,flexible cables. Except of course they are not - we use the IDC which is a sort of crimp, and ribbon cables. I.e. making soldered wire looms is hard to do on automatic kit. |
Crimp, solder, both?
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Crimps CAN be more reliable, but are prone to corrosion inside the crimp itself. As any car electrician can tell you. Only badly made ones. Properly done, they are airtight. -- *El nino made me do it Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Crimp, solder, both?
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: Crimps CAN be more reliable, but are prone to corrosion inside the crimp itself. As any car electrician can tell you. Only badly made ones. Properly done, they are airtight. Not on any typical car loom I have seen. Just look at the BT style of crimp for telephone cables. Jelly filled, self amalg tape..and they STILL fail. |
Crimp, solder, both?
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus In article , tony sayer wrote: Mobile and static not aircraft tho;!. But apart from this solder wicking effect which might cause a mech fail if the joint was pulled around enough, don't seem to be any other failure mode does there?... Soldering is obviously fine on connectors designed for it. But on cars and in this case a camper, all the loom connectors are crimped. Yes they don't solder those anymore too expensive to do.. Of course on such a large cable it may not make much difference in the end. Although it's probably easier to make a reasonable solder joint than crimp, if you don't have the correct crimping tool. Assuming you can solder. ;-) Yes had plenty of practice and crimping both are good if done well.. -- Tony Sayer |
Crimp, solder, both?
In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: Crimps CAN be more reliable, but are prone to corrosion inside the crimp itself. As any car electrician can tell you. Only badly made ones. Properly done, they are airtight. Not on any typical car loom I have seen. Just look at the BT style of crimp for telephone cables. Jelly filled, self amalg tape..and they STILL fail. I'd umm .. hardly call them crimps like the IDC connectors .. still theres a hellva lot of them out there anyway... -- Tony Sayer |
Crimp, solder, both?
Mobile and static not aircraft tho;!. But apart from this solder wicking
effect which might cause a mech fail if the joint was pulled around enough, don't seem to be any other failure mode does there?... crimping soft solder is bad, because it has low elasticity. It ends up progressively squashing under stress, getting loose and falling out. Well yes but that depends how much solder there is in there;)... the secret is to extend the support to the wire insulation upstream of the joint in some way. Heatshrink, epoxy resin.... and if you must use solder, use solder for the whole joint. Don't crimp soldered wire -- Tony Sayer |
Crimp, solder, both?
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: Crimps CAN be more reliable, but are prone to corrosion inside the crimp itself. As any car electrician can tell you. Only badly made ones. Properly done, they are airtight. Not on any typical car loom I have seen. Just look at the BT style of crimp for telephone cables. Jelly filled, self amalg tape..and they STILL fail. The crimps used on car wiring are nearly always 'uninsulated' crimps which I suspect are much less good at being airtight. -- Chris Green |
Crimp, solder, both?
On 19/07/2011 11:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
crimping soft solder is bad, because it has low elasticity. It ends up progressively squashing under stress, getting loose and falling out. Right, so we are agreed that soldering ( tinning ) then crimping is bad. But what about the reverse: Crimping then soldering? Strip the wire a tad longer than you might otherwise, Crimp it normally, but there will be some short excess poking through the crimp tunnel toward the eyelet. Apply solder from that end such that it wicks back down toward the tunnel entrance and around the base of the body. Not too much so that it flows round the entire eyelet, or even makes an uneven surface for the screw/washer that will go through the eyelet. -- R |
Crimp, solder, both?
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:11:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: Just look at the BT style of crimp for telephone cables. Jelly filled, self amalg tape..and they STILL fail. Considering how many millions of those are in use the failure rate is negligible. I'm not sure why one would ever waste time putting tape over them as they work very reliably as they are. (Again assuming they are assembled with the correct tooling - I've seen electricians using girt big pliers to crush them flat). There are no critical applications (aerospace, nautical, communications or vehicle) where solder connectors are recommended over crimp connectors. In most such applications solder connections are prohibited. |
Crimp, solder, both?
In article ,
Peter Parry wrote: There are no critical applications (aerospace, nautical, communications or vehicle) where solder connectors are recommended over crimp connectors. In most such applications solder connections are prohibited. That supports what I've read and believe to be so. -- *Two wrongs are only the beginning * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Crimp, solder, both?
Ron Lowe wrote:
On 19/07/2011 11:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote: crimping soft solder is bad, because it has low elasticity. It ends up progressively squashing under stress, getting loose and falling out. Right, so we are agreed that soldering ( tinning ) then crimping is bad. But what about the reverse: Crimping then soldering? Strip the wire a tad longer than you might otherwise, Crimp it normally, but there will be some short excess poking through the crimp tunnel toward the eyelet. Apply solder from that end such that it wicks back down toward the tunnel entrance and around the base of the body. Not too much so that it flows round the entire eyelet, or even makes an uneven surface for the screw/washer that will go through the eyelet. Apart from the creeping problem, soldering a joint raises the stress on the wire where the solder finishes. That's where it fails under vibration. It changes the failure mode from a (normally) gradual failure inside the crimp connector to a relatively sudden failure a short distance away from the connector. In my experience, and suchlike...... -- Tciao for Now! John. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:54 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter