UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #41   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,341
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

On Wed, 06 Jul 2011 15:02:13 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

With climbing rope you should remember that it is designed to save you
in a fall but it will only do this once. As the energy absorbed it
damages the rope and the rope gets longer. The rope will have its
length marked at the ends. measure it and check the length matches
the labels. if it has been stretched then bin it.


There are two types of climbing rope IIUC - static and dynamic. The
former does not stretch and is designed for belaying etc but not
designed for fall arrest.


We used polypropylene ropes for caving as they don't stretch much and they
float. IIRC they came from a hauliers' merchant, were 11mm and had a rating
of about 300 - 350kg. No good for climbing but OK where there's little or no
shock loading.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
  #42   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,175
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

In article ,
"SS" writes:
I really need to paint the soffit board and sort some guttering problem is
:-

A. Cant really afford a pro and I am capable of doing the work.
B. beyond around 10 feet I am crap on a ladder, even if I got higher I would
be hanging on rather than doing anything.

Ideally I would like to get the work done this summer although could
probably wait til next year.

Anyone else got this `fear` of height/ladders and how did you overcome it. I
just done feel safe or comfortable 20 feet up. Is there a better type
ladder I could use thinking it may be cheaper to buy something, use it, then
sell on ebay.

It is more working from a ladder than the height (I think) as I am currently
painting the window above the front porch, it has a steep roof but I can
access from the bedroom window, I just tie a rope around the bed hang it out
and use that as a comfort thing. Strange thing is I cannot access the porch
roof from a ladder, I tried and just got scared and backed off.

Any thoughts or ideas on this would be appreciated.
thanks


Get a quote for having scaffolding erected professionally.
That's what I did. It was much cheaper than I though it would be.
It made working on the facias, windows, etc really easy.
Wouldn't do it any other way again.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
  #43   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,175
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

In article ,
"Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere writes:
On 06/07/2011 13:52, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jul 2011 03:16:02 -0700 (PDT), Clive wrote:

...
get a harness - but that will restrict movement, you need to make sure
the fixing is *really* secure.


And think how you are going to get down once you are dangling in the
harness. You don't have long dangling before blood starts to pool in
your legs and nasty physilogical things start to happen, including
death.

The answer to that is to use a rate of descent control device, rather
than a fixed length of rope. You still hit the ground if you fall, but
slowly enough for it not to hurt.


I have a safety harness which works this way by having a long length
of thick velcro which slowly rips apart. (At least in theory, I've
never needed to try it, and it's a one-use only.) If you have to work
by yourself, check the drop distance from the suspension point so you
aren't going to be left dangling in mid-air. Make sure you know how
to put on and adjust the harness correctly, unless you want a set
of crushed nuts (a common injury with falls using safety harnesses
which were not correctly adjusted beforehand). Also, the suspension
point needs to be able to take to arrest force (many times your weight).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
  #44   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 136
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

On Jul 6, 7:26*pm, tony sayer wrote:

Well theres rope and, err rope. The one that comes with most all decent
body harnesses does have a "tape" like section thats stitched together
the idea is that it will rip apart thus absorbing the falling tension
impact load, a conventional rope won't do that 'tho some climbing ropes
are rather "stretchy" but very little over a few feet ..


I guess this sort of stuff is provided on industrial rope access kit?
I'm not familiar with that kind of thing (only "leisure" climbing
gear). But it sounds similar to what you get on via ferrata gear, via
ferrata being a kind of "serious" version of Go Ape on proper
mountains. It's designed to cope with very high factor (2+) falls by
the stitching pulling apart, and is indeed single-use.

If, OTOH, you're anchored from above on "normal" dynamic climbing
rope, you don't need this kind of thing (indeed, it shouldn't rip
apart if you do) because the fall factor can't be over 1, because you
can't fall more than the length of rope that is out. (If you're above
the anchor it could reach but not exceed 2). If the rope runs up from
an anchor/belayer at ground level to a carabiner at the top then down
to you the fall factor will be lower.

High factor falls on via ferrata can exist because you can slide a
fair way down an anchor cable before it actually "catches" you, but
your "rope" (the tails with the clips on) is quite short.

I mentioned fall factor in another post - essentially 2 writes off a
rope, a number of 1s can damage one, but a rope can take quite a few
lower ones depending on spec. It's calculated as (length of fall
before rope starts to stretch / length of rope out).

Neil
  #45   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,713
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

Neil Williams wrote:

I guess this sort of stuff is provided on industrial rope access kit?
I'm not familiar with that kind of thing (only "leisure" climbing
gear). But it sounds similar to what you get on via ferrata gear, via
ferrata being a kind of "serious" version of Go Ape on proper
mountains.


Then again, some don't even clip on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmDhRvvs5Xw

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.


  #46   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,085
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

On Wed, 6 Jul 2011 22:59:59 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I have a safety harness which works this way by having a long length
of thick velcro which slowly rips apart. (At least in theory, I've
never needed to try it, and it's a one-use only.) If you have to work
by yourself, check the drop distance from the suspension point so you
aren't going to be left dangling in mid-air.


And that the fall arrest system will be well into operation before
you hit the bottom. Little point in having such a device if it only
starts to slow you down in the last couple of feet of a ten foot
drop...

Make sure you know how to put on and adjust the harness correctly,
unless you want a set of crushed nuts (a common injury with falls using
safety harnesses which were not correctly adjusted beforehand).


Correctly adjusted *and* positioned...

Also, the suspension point needs to be able to take to arrest force
(many times your weight).


Anchor point. Suspension point is the point on the harness that you
dangle from, one would hope that a harness suspension point will take
the load. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.



  #47   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 136
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

On Jul 7, 10:56*am, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

And that the fall arrest system will be well into operation before
you hit the bottom. Little point in having such a device if it only
starts to slow you down in the last couple of feet of a ten foot
drop...


Those devices only slow you down in a fairly short distance anyway.
If you're lead climbing at the lower end of a route and fall off, it's
entirely possible that you'll only stop very close to the ground.

Different situation I know, but my point is the gear is designed to
cope with it, even with all 17.5 stone of me!

I'm starting to wonder, actually, if the OP's ladder is of sturdy
metal construction and is fixed to something solid so can't fall over
(=would take a shock loading of his weight from a 0.5 to 1m-ish fall
without failing) if using something like via ferrata gear (or
industrial rope access equivalent) and clipping it to the nearest rung
to where he's standing might provide a bit of reassurance and a fairly
good chance of safely catching a short fall from which he'd always be
able to get back on the ladder easily enough?

Neil
  #48   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 565
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

As a matter of interest, what is the greatest height
that a relatively sane man would reach on a ladder?

--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
  #49   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,896
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

In article , Timothy Murphy
scribeth thus
As a matter of interest, what is the greatest height
that a relatively sane man would reach on a ladder?


Does that include a fireman on a turntable ladder?...
--
Tony Sayer



  #50   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,843
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

On Jul 7, 12:01 am, "michael adams" wrote:

Securing ladders to furniture, beds etc isn't always a good idea
as they can move around.


And, after you've fallen, having a bed land on top of you could be
painful!


  #51   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,031
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

On 06/07/2011 16:28, michael adams wrote:
"Neil wrote in message
...
On Jul 6, 4:09 pm, "michael wrote:

When you fall you should be be in fairly close proximity to the
scaffolding or the ladder.

- Unless the cause is the ladder failing or falling over...

Not where the ladder is secured at the top to a crossbar
inside a window.


Unless there's no convenient window where you're using the ladder, in
which case you need to climb the unsecured ladder to drill the wall and
fit an eyebolt before you can secure it.

--
Mike Clarke
  #52   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 347
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

As a matter of interest, what is the greatest height
that a relatively sane man would reach on a ladder?


Does that include a fireman on a turntable ladder?...


And depths on wire ladders....?
--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com


  #53   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 347
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

Moving from ascent ladder to roof ladder always feels much safer IMHO
once I have tied the two together ;-)


Roof ladder? What roof ladder? (I know, I know but I don't have
anything long enough to reach the ridge on the main roof which is light
enough for me to get there.)
--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com


  #54   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 136
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

On Jul 7, 1:02*pm, Neil Williams wrote:

I'm starting to wonder, actually, if the OP's ladder is of sturdy
metal construction and is fixed to something solid so can't fall over
(=would take a shock loading of his weight from a 0.5 to 1m-ish fall
without failing) if using something like via ferrata gear (or
industrial rope access equivalent) and clipping it to the nearest rung
to where he's standing might provide a bit of reassurance and a fairly
good chance of safely catching a short fall from which he'd always be
able to get back on the ladder easily enough?


....of course the OP also needs to take advice from someone who can see
his exact situation and maybe test it and train him in its use rather
than just taking advice from an Internet bloke down the pub

Neil
  #55   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,020
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

Timothy Murphy wrote:
As a matter of interest, what is the greatest height
that a relatively sane man would reach on a ladder?


I don't think there's any limit. I've seen steeplejacks working on ladders
at 400ft.


  #56   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,031
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

On 06/07/2011 11:42, ARWadsworth wrote:

Although I still
cannot work out how some people are able to just walk off a ladder onto a
roof and make it look as easy as walking through a door.


It's stepping back from the roof onto the ladder that I find more scary.

--
Mike Clarke
  #57   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,896
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

In article
..com, Owain scribeth thus
On Jul 7, 12:24*pm, Timothy Murphy wrote:
As a matter of interest, what is the greatest height
that a relatively sane man would reach on a ladder?


Was Fred Dibnah relatively sane?

http://images.play.com/covers/592934m.jpg

Owain


Steeplejack .. different class of bloke altogether;!...
--
Tony Sayer



  #58   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 136
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

On Jul 7, 3:22*pm, Mike Clarke wrote:

It's stepping back from the roof onto the ladder that I find more scary.


Fair point - I guess it's at that point that (if it's not secure) you
stand more of a chance of kicking it down.

Neil
  #59   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 246
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

On 08/07/2011 18:36, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/07/2011 12:24, Timothy Murphy wrote:

As a matter of interest, what is the greatest height
that a relatively sane man would reach on a ladder?


Most manually erected ladders (i.e. without rope extension systems) seem
to top out about 35' (10.5m) - which means you could reach a bit above
that safely (although not step off onto a surface etc at that height.


I've been up a wooden ladder of around that height to access a temporary
platform up the side of a factory. The bounce in the middle of the
ladder was quite unnerving.

Lying on the platform checking an instrument when it began to snow
heavily was not good either.

SteveW
  #60   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,896
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

In article , John
Rumm scribeth thus
On 07/07/2011 13:26, Steve Firth wrote:
Timothy wrote:
As a matter of interest, what is the greatest height
that a relatively sane man would reach on a ladder?


I don't think there's any limit. I've seen steeplejacks working on ladders
at 400ft.


Steeplejacks ladders are very different to your average "lean against
the wall" class of ladder being bolted[1] to the thing you are climbing.

[1] I say bolted, but don't actually know how they fixed their ladders/


Usually they have "hook" type attachments built into the structure they
hook the upper part of the ladder onto then tie them together as they go
higher..

Well thats what Fred Dibnah did when he did the Gasworks chimney in
Cambridge..
--
Tony Sayer




  #61   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 246
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

On 06/07/2011 11:42, ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote:
I really need to paint the soffit board and sort some guttering
problem is :-

A. Cant really afford a pro and I am capable of doing the work.
B. beyond around 10 feet I am crap on a ladder, even if I got higher
I would be hanging on rather than doing anything.

Ideally I would like to get the work done this summer although could
probably wait til next year.

Anyone else got this `fear` of height/ladders and how did you
overcome it. I just done feel safe or comfortable 20 feet up. Is
there a better type ladder I could use thinking it may be cheaper to
buy something, use it, then sell on ebay.


Once you have got a good ladder you will want to keep it.

I never really overcame my fear of hights, I am however a lot more confident
than I used to be. Maybe just practice did it for me. Although I still
cannot work out how some people are able to just walk off a ladder onto a
roof and make it look as easy as walking through a door.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmDhR...ature=youtu.be again?

SteveW
  #62   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 246
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

On 08/07/2011 21:35, Steve Walker wrote:
On 06/07/2011 11:42, ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote:
I really need to paint the soffit board and sort some guttering
problem is :-

A. Cant really afford a pro and I am capable of doing the work.
B. beyond around 10 feet I am crap on a ladder, even if I got higher
I would be hanging on rather than doing anything.

Ideally I would like to get the work done this summer although could
probably wait til next year.

Anyone else got this `fear` of height/ladders and how did you
overcome it. I just done feel safe or comfortable 20 feet up. Is
there a better type ladder I could use thinking it may be cheaper to
buy something, use it, then sell on ebay.


Once you have got a good ladder you will want to keep it.

I never really overcame my fear of hights, I am however a lot more
confident
than I used to be. Maybe just practice did it for me. Although I still
cannot work out how some people are able to just walk off a ladder onto a
roof and make it look as easy as walking through a door.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmDhR...ature=youtu.be again?

SteveW


Bugger! Someone beat me to it.

SteveW
  #63   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,688
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

John Rumm wrote:

Usually about now someone posts a DanO climb:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ADOK6LD70w


It's no surprise that he's dead. What is surprising is that he died
because of *using* a rope, rather than *not* using one!


  #64   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,107
Default Dealing with height on ladders.


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 08/07/2011 21:45, Steve Walker wrote:
I never really overcame my fear of hights, I am however a lot more
confident
than I used to be. Maybe just practice did it for me. Although I still
cannot work out how some people are able to just walk off a ladder
onto a
roof and make it look as easy as walking through a door.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmDhR...ature=youtu.be again?


My son and I drove a road like that in Lesotho, well more like a donkey
track. We had to do 5+ point turns to get around the hairpin bends with one
of us out spotting just how close to the edge the wheels were. I am not good
on unprotected heights, this led to a terrifying morning!

Mike


  #65   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 347
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

When selecting a roof ladder, I went for a fairly long one (7.6m
extended) on the grounds that it would be more versatile - however the
down side is that its also heavier at about 20kg and requires a fair
bit of effort to pull up and get into place on a roof while standing
at the top of a ladder. (20kg may not sound like much - but its
plenty to be titting about with on a ladder!)

Thanks: I think you have alerted me to need to buy new ladders. My 2x17
rung push-up double ladder must be about the same size as yours but
weighs around 35kg with roof hooks bolted on. It's all I can do to
shift it let alone tilt it

--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com





  #66   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,843
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

On Jul 9, 9:54 pm, John Rumm wrote:

I think wooden ones are worse in that respect than a decent box section
ali one. Still not that many extending wood ladders in use these days it
seems.


I use wooden ladders most of the time when climbing around near bare
overhead wiring while the power is on. Tower trucks have wooden
extension ladders. However they are bolted to the truck, which weighs
about 5 tons.
  #67   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,410
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

On 10/07/2011 15:38, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/07/2011 10:21, Matty F wrote:
On Jul 9, 9:54 pm, John wrote:

I think wooden ones are worse in that respect than a decent box section
ali one. Still not that many extending wood ladders in use these days it
seems.


I use wooden ladders most of the time when climbing around near bare
overhead wiring while the power is on. Tower trucks have wooden
extension ladders. However they are bolted to the truck, which weighs
about 5 tons.


Fibreglass is the new wood for folks working near power lines etc...

.... but even heavier.

Colin Bignell
  #68   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 246
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

On 10/07/2011 15:38, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/07/2011 10:21, Matty F wrote:
On Jul 9, 9:54 pm, John wrote:

I think wooden ones are worse in that respect than a decent box section
ali one. Still not that many extending wood ladders in use these days it
seems.


I use wooden ladders most of the time when climbing around near bare
overhead wiring while the power is on. Tower trucks have wooden
extension ladders. However they are bolted to the truck, which weighs
about 5 tons.


Fibreglass is the new wood for folks working near power lines etc...


Oddly enough, my parents have only just got rid of their wooden
extension ladders, which they've had since around 1980. When they
originally got them, they cost a fiver from British Rail. It seems that
BR bought a load of them for their overhead line maintenance crews, but
the unions rejected them, insisting that aluminium ones had to be used!
I must admit that we had to cut them down by half a dozen rungs to get
them into the garage and even then, they were so heavy that you had to
have two people to erect them safely. They are the only wooden ladders
that I have ever used that were virtually as bounce free as an aluminum
set, but totally impractical due to the weight.

SteveW
  #69   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 136
Default Dealing with height on ladders.

On Jul 8, 7:12*pm, John Rumm wrote:

i.e. rope belayed to the ground, with the last anchor at 8m, and the
climber falling from 2m above the last anchor, would count as a 2m fall
on 10m of rope rather than 2 on 2?


Yes. It's about how much of the rope can stretch to absorb the fall,
and as it's not fixed at the anchor, just running through a carabiner,
all of the rope can stretch, not just the bit by the clip.

Neil
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Working at height without ladders John Stumbles UK diy 15 October 12th 09 07:45 PM
Inside dealing? [email protected] Home Ownership 17 April 21st 08 07:54 PM
Dealing with Illegals Ted Home Repair 58 December 12th 07 11:47 AM
OT(ish) dealing with DIY injuries John Rumm UK diy 20 July 24th 07 01:53 AM
OT Dealing with a nuisance dog Rex B Metalworking 170 January 27th 05 12:32 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:40 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"