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Default Surging Pressure Washer

I have a KEW Hobby pressure washer ...... been great to date ... but
yesterday started surging.

This is significant enough to make it useless, almost equal cadence between
pressure & no pressure ... the outlet pressure gauge is also reading nothing
.... but that may be just a duff gauge.

Anybody any experience with pressure washers ?

No shortage of incoming mains (pressure or flow rate) even tried different
hoses & fittings to be 100% sure of that.

If I operate lance without unit being switched on ... water is jetting out
OK.
Plus when it 'surges' it does seem right pressure and flow at the peak of
each surge.

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"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...
I have a KEW Hobby pressure washer ...... been great to date ... but
yesterday started surging.

different
hoses & fittings to be 100% sure of that.

If I operate lance without unit being switched on ... water is jetting out
OK.
Plus when it 'surges' it does seem right pressure and flow at the peak of
each surge.

Probably a blockage on the inlet side.

Mike


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Default Surging Pressure Washer

On 01/05/2011 15:50, Rick Hughes wrote:
I have a KEW Hobby pressure washer ...... been great to date ... but
yesterday started surging.

This is significant enough to make it useless, almost equal cadence
between pressure & no pressure ... the outlet pressure gauge is also
reading nothing ... but that may be just a duff gauge.

Anybody any experience with pressure washers ?

No shortage of incoming mains (pressure or flow rate) even tried
different hoses & fittings to be 100% sure of that.

If I operate lance without unit being switched on ... water is jetting
out OK.
Plus when it 'surges' it does seem right pressure and flow at the peak
of each surge.


At what rate is it surging - like several times per second, once every
few seconds, etc.?

During this pressure fluctuation, is the motor running all the time - or
does it keep starting and stopping?

When you fist turn it on with the outlet closed (i.e. trigger on lance
not operated) does get up to pressure and then cut the motor, like it's
supposed to?

[Anyone know how many pistons a typical pressure washer has in its pump,
and what the rotational speed is likely to be?]
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Default Surging Pressure Washer

Rick Hughes wrote:
I have a KEW Hobby pressure washer ...... been great to date ... but
yesterday started surging.

This is significant enough to make it useless, almost equal cadence
between pressure & no pressure ... the outlet pressure gauge is also
reading nothing ... but that may be just a duff gauge.

Anybody any experience with pressure washers ?

No shortage of incoming mains (pressure or flow rate) even tried
different hoses & fittings to be 100% sure of that.

If I operate lance without unit being switched on ... water is
jetting out OK.
Plus when it 'surges' it does seem right pressure and flow at the
peak of each surge.


I had a similar problem with a Karcher - and prodding some grit out of the
jet with the provided 'prodder' did the trick.

--
Kev

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Default Surging Pressure Washer


"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
At what rate is it surging - like several times per second, once every few
seconds, etc.?



equal pressure / no pressure ... about 2 sec on 2 off or maybe a little
less.


During this pressure fluctuation, is the motor running all the time - or
does it keep starting and stopping?



Motor running contiuously


When you fist turn it on with the outlet closed (i.e. trigger on lance not
operated) does get up to pressure and then cut the motor, like it's
supposed to?



Never done that ... iut would just run up to load and motor stay at load,
never cut/in out. (Hobby 88 is model)
sound wouldof course change, but does not stop running.



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"Ret." wrote in message
...
Rick Hughes wrote:
I have a KEW Hobby pressure washer ...... been great to date ... but
yesterday started surging.

This is significant enough to make it useless, almost equal cadence
between pressure & no pressure ... the outlet pressure gauge is also
reading nothing ... but that may be just a duff gauge.

Anybody any experience with pressure washers ?

No shortage of incoming mains (pressure or flow rate) even tried
different hoses & fittings to be 100% sure of that.

If I operate lance without unit being switched on ... water is
jetting out OK.
Plus when it 'surges' it does seem right pressure and flow at the
peak of each surge.


I had a similar problem with a Karcher - and prodding some grit out of the
jet with the provided 'prodder' did the trick.



Changed lance to scrubber unit ... still the same, so not related to hose or
lance.

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On 01/05/2011 18:24, Rick Hughes wrote:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
At what rate is it surging - like several times per second, once every
few seconds, etc.?



equal pressure / no pressure ... about 2 sec on 2 off or maybe a little
less.


During this pressure fluctuation, is the motor running all the time -
or does it keep starting and stopping?



Motor running contiuously


When you fist turn it on with the outlet closed (i.e. trigger on lance
not operated) does get up to pressure and then cut the motor, like
it's supposed to?



Never done that ... iut would just run up to load and motor stay at
load, never cut/in out. (Hobby 88 is model)
sound wouldof course change, but does not stop running.


Hmmm, the ones i've used have all (okay all four different ones) cut the
motor whenever there is no flow. Pull the trigger, the motor starts up,
release the trigger, the motor stops.

SteveW


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On 01/05/2011 15:50, Rick Hughes wrote:
I have a KEW Hobby pressure washer ...... been great to date ... but
yesterday started surging.

This is significant enough to make it useless, almost equal cadence
between pressure & no pressure ... the outlet pressure gauge is also
reading nothing ... but that may be just a duff gauge.

Anybody any experience with pressure washers ?


Only about 30 years worth :-)

Made my living selling them for years.


No shortage of incoming mains (pressure or flow rate) even tried
different hoses & fittings to be 100% sure of that.

If I operate lance without unit being switched on ... water is jetting
out OK.
Plus when it 'surges' it does seem right pressure and flow at the peak
of each surge.


Penny to a pinch of poo its a partial blockage in the nozzle. Don't be
too forceful in trying to clear it, nozzles are fairly delicate. Blow
it backwards with an airline if you can.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
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On 01/05/2011 16:55, Roger Mills wrote:
On 01/05/2011 15:50, Rick Hughes wrote:
I have a KEW Hobby pressure washer ...... been great to date ... but
yesterday started surging.

This is significant enough to make it useless, almost equal cadence
between pressure & no pressure ... the outlet pressure gauge is also
reading nothing ... but that may be just a duff gauge.

Anybody any experience with pressure washers ?

No shortage of incoming mains (pressure or flow rate) even tried
different hoses & fittings to be 100% sure of that.

If I operate lance without unit being switched on ... water is jetting
out OK.
Plus when it 'surges' it does seem right pressure and flow at the peak
of each surge.


At what rate is it surging - like several times per second, once every
few seconds, etc.?

During this pressure fluctuation, is the motor running all the time - or
does it keep starting and stopping?

When you fist turn it on with the outlet closed (i.e. trigger on lance
not operated) does get up to pressure and then cut the motor, like it's
supposed to?

[Anyone know how many pistons a typical pressure washer has in its pump,
and what the rotational speed is likely to be?]


Almost all have 3, they are generally axial swash plate pumps. Motor
speed around 2800 rpm. Cheap ones have universal motors that run really
fast.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
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On 01/05/2011 19:39, Steve Walker wrote:
On 01/05/2011 18:24, Rick Hughes wrote:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
At what rate is it surging - like several times per second, once every
few seconds, etc.?



equal pressure / no pressure ... about 2 sec on 2 off or maybe a little
less.


During this pressure fluctuation, is the motor running all the time -
or does it keep starting and stopping?



Motor running contiuously


When you fist turn it on with the outlet closed (i.e. trigger on lance
not operated) does get up to pressure and then cut the motor, like
it's supposed to?



Never done that ... iut would just run up to load and motor stay at
load, never cut/in out. (Hobby 88 is model)
sound wouldof course change, but does not stop running.


Hmmm, the ones i've used have all (okay all four different ones) cut the
motor whenever there is no flow. Pull the trigger, the motor starts up,
release the trigger, the motor stops.


The KEW Hobby was one of the first on the market, IIRC it had a bypass
valve rather than a pressure switch which most modern machines use.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


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"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
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On 01/05/2011 19:39, Steve Walker wrote:
The KEW Hobby was one of the first on the market, IIRC it had a bypass
valve rather than a pressure switch which most modern machines use.




That would tie in with the in-use sound ..you can hear pump getting up to
pressure, and if you are 'jetting' it is one, sound, when you release the
trigger, sound changes as I presume it reaches peak pressure and 'by pass'
opens ... but certainly does not stop running.

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"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...

Penny to a pinch of poo its a partial blockage in the nozzle. Don't be
too forceful in trying to clear it, nozzles are fairly delicate. Blow it
backwards with an airline if you can.


nope ... I took lance off and fitted a patio scrubbere - exactly the same
surging, so not nozzle related.
I also have a separate nozzle (rotating) tried that ... same surging.

Tech spec


80bar
1.3 hp
nozzle pressure 88 bar
most other specs are about hose size & dimensions etc.

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On 01/05/2011 18:25, Rick Hughes wrote:

"Ret." wrote in message
...
Rick Hughes wrote:
I have a KEW Hobby pressure washer ...... been great to date ... but
yesterday started surging.

This is significant enough to make it useless, almost equal cadence
between pressure & no pressure ... the outlet pressure gauge is also
reading nothing ... but that may be just a duff gauge.

Anybody any experience with pressure washers ?

No shortage of incoming mains (pressure or flow rate) even tried
different hoses & fittings to be 100% sure of that.


Try it without the lance. Do you get a steady stream of water?

If I operate lance without unit being switched on ... water is
jetting out OK.
Plus when it 'surges' it does seem right pressure and flow at the
peak of each surge.


I had a similar problem with a Karcher - and prodding some grit out of
the jet with the provided 'prodder' did the trick.



Changed lance to scrubber unit ... still the same, so not related to
hose or lance.


In that case it sounds like the by pass (or unloader) valve is out of
kilter.

To explain whats occurring; Say the working pressure is 100 bar. The by
pass valve is basically a piston held shut by a spring.

When the trigger is closed the back pressure rises to say 105 bar and
forces the valve open - allowing water to flow back into the inlet &
round in a continuous loop. When the gun is opened the pressure against
the spring drops allowing the valve to close.

A partial blockage in the nozzle would cause the back pressure to rise &
operate the valve, the pressure drops so the valve closes, the pressure
rises & the valve opens, etc etc etc.

If the valve is out of kilter (or the spring has broken) - e.g. set too
low - it causes exactly the symptoms you describe.

Page 5 part 60 here;

http://www.dolmar.nl/images/files/tekeningen/HP11.pdf

Spring pressure needs increasing 'very slightly'. Or a new valve.

p.s. Not using Hozelock 'Waterstop' connectors by any chance?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
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On 01/05/2011 19:39, Steve Walker wrote:
On 01/05/2011 18:24, Rick Hughes wrote:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
At what rate is it surging - like several times per second, once every
few seconds, etc.?



equal pressure / no pressure ... about 2 sec on 2 off or maybe a little
less.


During this pressure fluctuation, is the motor running all the time -
or does it keep starting and stopping?



Motor running contiuously


When you fist turn it on with the outlet closed (i.e. trigger on lance
not operated) does get up to pressure and then cut the motor, like
it's supposed to?



Never done that ... iut would just run up to load and motor stay at
load, never cut/in out. (Hobby 88 is model)
sound wouldof course change, but does not stop running.


Hmmm, the ones i've used have all (okay all four different ones) cut the
motor whenever there is no flow. Pull the trigger, the motor starts up,
release the trigger, the motor stops.


I have a Karcher and the motor keeps running. OK, it is quite old -
cylinder rather than upright.


--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]
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"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
Page 5 part 60 here;

http://www.dolmar.nl/images/files/tekeningen/HP11.pdf

Spring pressure needs increasing 'very slightly'. Or a new valve.

p.s. Not using Hozelock 'Waterstop' connectors by any chance?



Great explanation .,.. I am away for a few days with work ... will take a
look, maybe a clean will fix :-)
Don't suppose you have same parts list / drawings for the Hobby 88 ?

It is a rectangular box type, rather than upright.



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On 01/05/2011 20:14, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 01/05/2011 15:50, Rick Hughes wrote:
I have a KEW Hobby pressure washer ...... been great to date ... but
yesterday started surging.

This is significant enough to make it useless, almost equal cadence
between pressure & no pressure ... the outlet pressure gauge is also
reading nothing ... but that may be just a duff gauge.

Anybody any experience with pressure washers ?


Only about 30 years worth :-)

Made my living selling them for years.


No shortage of incoming mains (pressure or flow rate) even tried
different hoses & fittings to be 100% sure of that.

If I operate lance without unit being switched on ... water is jetting
out OK.
Plus when it 'surges' it does seem right pressure and flow at the peak
of each surge.


Penny to a pinch of poo its a partial blockage in the nozzle. Don't be
too forceful in trying to clear it, nozzles are fairly delicate. Blow it
backwards with an airline if you can.


OK, how about this for a theory . .

He says that water flows through ok at mains pressure with the pump not
running, so there isn't a conventional blockage in the pipework. He says
that two different nozzles behave the same, so it's unlikely that
they're *both* blocked.

I reckon that the lining of the pressure hose is de-laminating, and
cutting off the flow. Then the by-pass opens and releases the pressure,
the pressure hose recovers for a bit and lets through another pulse -
and then the whole thing repeats on a once per 4 second cycle.

Got to be something like that!
--
Cheers,
Roger
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"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...

I reckon that the lining of the pressure hose is de-laminating, and
cutting off the flow. Then the by-pass opens and releases the pressure,
the pressure hose recovers for a bit and lets through another pulse - and
then the whole thing repeats on a once per 4 second cycle.



OK ... the pressure hose is in s**t order, outer covering all peeling off,
so inner could be crap.
It was going to be changed this year.

I don't have a spare hose to try though ... so that limits my next step

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On 01/05/2011 20:58, Roger Mills wrote:
On 01/05/2011 20:14, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 01/05/2011 15:50, Rick Hughes wrote:
I have a KEW Hobby pressure washer ...... been great to date ... but
yesterday started surging.

This is significant enough to make it useless, almost equal cadence
between pressure & no pressure ... the outlet pressure gauge is also
reading nothing ... but that may be just a duff gauge.

Anybody any experience with pressure washers ?


Only about 30 years worth :-)

Made my living selling them for years.


No shortage of incoming mains (pressure or flow rate) even tried
different hoses & fittings to be 100% sure of that.

If I operate lance without unit being switched on ... water is jetting
out OK.
Plus when it 'surges' it does seem right pressure and flow at the peak
of each surge.


Penny to a pinch of poo its a partial blockage in the nozzle. Don't be
too forceful in trying to clear it, nozzles are fairly delicate. Blow it
backwards with an airline if you can.


OK, how about this for a theory . .

He says that water flows through ok at mains pressure with the pump not
running, so there isn't a conventional blockage in the pipework. He says
that two different nozzles behave the same, so it's unlikely that
they're *both* blocked.

I reckon that the lining of the pressure hose is de-laminating, and
cutting off the flow. Then the by-pass opens and releases the pressure,
the pressure hose recovers for a bit and lets through another pulse -
and then the whole thing repeats on a once per 4 second cycle.

Got to be something like that!


Could well be Roger. Although I would expect the delaminating hose
would has caused a blockage in the nozzle.

My current money is on the by pass valve.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
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On 01/05/2011 20:55, Rick Hughes wrote:

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
Page 5 part 60 here;

http://www.dolmar.nl/images/files/tekeningen/HP11.pdf

Spring pressure needs increasing 'very slightly'. Or a new valve.

p.s. Not using Hozelock 'Waterstop' connectors by any chance?



Great explanation .,.. I am away for a few days with work ... will take
a look, maybe a clean will fix :-)
Don't suppose you have same parts list / drawings for the Hobby 88 ?

It is a rectangular box type, rather than upright.

That would make it pretty old. They may well have used the same design
unloader/by pass on the newer models though.



--
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On 03/05/2011 23:46, John Rumm wrote:


What happens if you disconnect the pressure hose and let water squire
out the output spout - does it still surge?


I'm not sure that would tell you very much, because it wouldn't be able
to produce any back pressure. I would expect it to pee water out
continuously even if (say) the by-pass valve were faulty.
--
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Roger
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On 04/05/2011 17:56, Roger Mills wrote:
On 03/05/2011 23:46, John Rumm wrote:


What happens if you disconnect the pressure hose and let water squire
out the output spout - does it still surge?


I'm not sure that would tell you very much, because it wouldn't be able
to produce any back pressure. I would expect it to pee water out
continuously even if (say) the by-pass valve were faulty.


It would confirm the supply is adequate.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
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On 05/05/2011 18:40, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 04/05/2011 17:56, Roger Mills wrote:
On 03/05/2011 23:46, John Rumm wrote:


What happens if you disconnect the pressure hose and let water squire
out the output spout - does it still surge?


I'm not sure that would tell you very much, because it wouldn't be able
to produce any back pressure. I would expect it to pee water out
continuously even if (say) the by-pass valve were faulty.


It would confirm the supply is adequate.


But the OP has already said that he gets good flow (without a nozzle)
when operating the trigger without switching the machine on - as one
does to purge the pipework of air.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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On Sun, 01 May 2011 20:47:52 +0100, The Medway Handyman wrote:


p.s. Not using Hozelock 'Waterstop' connectors by any chance?


Just read through the thread, I still have a very old KEW Hobby, bought at
the Ideal Homes Exhibition many many years ago. I also had this problem,
and in the end it turned out to be using waterstop connectors on the inlet.
Also had trouble with grit in the lance, had to buy a new lance, as the old
one didn't lend itself to my style of DIY disassembly! :-)

Still in the garage unused now as it was bl**dy heavy to lug around, now
replaced with a Nilfisk.

--
The Wanderer

An expert is someone who has made all the mistakes
which can be made, in a narrow field.

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On Thu, 5 May 2011 20:12:23 +0100, The Wanderer wrote:

p.s. Not using Hozelock 'Waterstop' connectors by any chance?


I also had this problem, and in the end it turned out to be using
waterstop connectors on the inlet.


I can't work out why waterstop connectors are supposed to be a
problem or if they are how. When connected the male spigot physicaly
pushes the valve open, no way can it be sucked shut.

Maybe some people put waterstops at both ends of the hose and the one
at the tap end is sucked too far open blocking the flow? Easy cure
for that...

--
Cheers
Dave.



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On Thu, 05 May 2011 22:26:23 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Thu, 5 May 2011 20:12:23 +0100, The Wanderer wrote:

p.s. Not using Hozelock 'Waterstop' connectors by any chance?


I also had this problem, and in the end it turned out to be using
waterstop connectors on the inlet.


I can't work out why waterstop connectors are supposed to be a
problem or if they are how. When connected the male spigot physicaly
pushes the valve open, no way can it be sucked shut.


On the face of it, I've got to agree with you, there shouldn't be a
problem. Except that from personal experience I can say there is! I can
only think that the whole arrangement (the spigot, the rubber seal, the
actual clearance when open) restricts the flow into the pump.


--
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Meditate! It's better than sitting doing nothing.



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"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Thu, 5 May 2011 20:12:23 +0100, The Wanderer wrote:

p.s. Not using Hozelock 'Waterstop' connectors by any chance?


I also had this problem, and in the end it turned out to be using
waterstop connectors on the inlet.


I can't work out why waterstop connectors are supposed to be a
problem or if they are how. When connected the male spigot physicaly
pushes the valve open, no way can it be sucked shut.

Maybe some people put waterstops at both ends of the hose and the one
at the tap end is sucked too far open blocking the flow? Easy cure
for that...

Have to agree on that they are not flow related when connected, as you say
they are physically open when connected, irrespective of water.

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"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2011 18:40, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 04/05/2011 17:56, Roger Mills wrote:
On 03/05/2011 23:46, John Rumm wrote:


What happens if you disconnect the pressure hose and let water squire
out the output spout - does it still surge?


I'm not sure that would tell you very much, because it wouldn't be able
to produce any back pressure. I would expect it to pee water out
continuously even if (say) the by-pass valve were faulty.


It would confirm the supply is adequate.


But the OP has already said that he gets good flow (without a nozzle) when
operating the trigger without switching the machine on - as one does to
purge the pipework of air.
--



Yep to be 100% sure ... connect up water hose, operate lance trigger but
leave pump 'off' get continuous low of water, reaches about 30'

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