http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTLD...layer_embedded

It's always nice to see reasoned logical debate on these issues, isn't it?

Meanwhile, for those who prefer humour

http://fenbeagleblog.wordpress.com/

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTLD...layer_embedded

Do schools /really/ have uniforms nowadays, or is it just on TV?
As I remember, school uniforms were all abolished in the '80s in
a purge^Wsurge of left-liberal idological mad^Wnon^Wconformism.

JGH

jgharston wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTLD...layer_embedded

Do schools /really/ have uniforms nowadays, or is it just on TV?
As I remember, school uniforms were all abolished in the '80s in
a purge^Wsurge of left-liberal idological mad^Wnon^Wconformism.

JGH
I believe, post Hogwarts, they are rather popular again.

jgharston wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTLD...layer_embedded

Do schools /really/ have uniforms nowadays, or is it just on TV?
As I remember, school uniforms were all abolished in the '80s in
a purge^Wsurge of left-liberal idological mad^Wnon^Wconformism.

Many of them do - but IME, the rules on dress are rarely enforced. You only
have to look at the 'hitched up' skirts (when the rules say they should be
knee length), this silly habit of wearing ties loosely hanging below an open
necked shirt and with the front wide part of the tie only showing about two
inches below the knot, to see how the kids try their hardest not to conform!

--
Kev

Ret. wrote:
jgharston wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTLD...layer_embedded

Do schools /really/ have uniforms nowadays, or is it just on TV?
As I remember, school uniforms were all abolished in the '80s in
a purge^Wsurge of left-liberal idological mad^Wnon^Wconformism.

Many of them do - but IME, the rules on dress are rarely enforced.
You only have to look at the 'hitched up' skirts

Me too.

(when the rules say
they should be knee length), this silly habit of wearing ties loosely
hanging below an open necked shirt and with the front wide part of
the tie only showing about two inches below the knot, to see how the
kids try their hardest not to conform!

--
Adam

"Ret." wrote in message
...
jgharston wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTLD...layer_embedded

Do schools /really/ have uniforms nowadays, or is it just on TV?
As I remember, school uniforms were all abolished in the '80s in
a purge^Wsurge of left-liberal idological mad^Wnon^Wconformism.

Many of them do - but IME, the rules on dress are rarely enforced. You
only have to look at the 'hitched up' skirts (when the rules say they
should be knee length), this silly habit of wearing ties loosely hanging
below an open necked shirt and with the front wide part of the tie only
showing about two inches below the knot, to see how the kids try their
hardest not to conform!

I have a friend who, as a marketing manager (with a major multinational),
used to go to work like that.

As someone who discarded wearing a tie to work 20 years ago, I asked him if
he thought that this presented a better impression for someone in his
position, than no tie at all.

He said "yes".

tim

tim.... wrote:

"Ret." wrote in message
...


Many of them do - but IME, the rules on dress are rarely enforced. You
only have to look at the 'hitched up' skirts (when the rules say they
should be knee length), this silly habit of wearing ties loosely hanging
below an open necked shirt and with the front wide part of the tie only
showing about two inches below the knot, to see how the kids try their
hardest not to conform!

I have a friend who, as a marketing manager (with a major multinational),
used to go to work like that.

As someone who discarded wearing a tie to work 20 years ago, I asked him if
he thought that this presented a better impression for someone in his
position, than no tie at all.

He said "yes".

Although my ex-employer never did have a dress code, a few years
ago a new relaxed one was formalised. There was no mention of
gender, though it was clearly written with men in mind:

Shirts must have a collar.
No predominant logos or slogans.
No blue denim. (other colours presumably OK)
No trainers.
Shorts permissible, but must be tailored.

This was for a trial period. Exactly what they would have done
if they had eventually decide to discontinue it was unclear.
Perhaps they would have had to define what we previously wore
without compulsion.

As it happened there was no reversion. However, the company
had several reorganisations of departments, and some parts of it
were still firmly in the lounge suit era.

Interestingly, when we occasionally had corporate video
presentations, practically all the global chiefs were tie-less.
Indeed, when I used to visit company sites in Sweden or Germany,
I generally dressed down (to UK standards) so as not to appear
overdressed by theirs.

After too many years, I was happy to ditch the ties. Last time
the subject came up I simple commented that I had signed off many
official Design Certificates, for assorted rolling stock worth
about GBP 700 million, without my tie, and none of them had been
rejected because of this.

I'm quite OK with not wearing ties, but really don't like to see
the top button of the shirt still done up.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 02:40:00 -0700 (PDT), jgharston wrote:

Do schools /really/ have uniforms nowadays, or is it just on TV?

Yes, all three local schools (2 x Primary, 1 x Secondary) have
uniforms. Other larger secondary schools near by also have uniforms.

Personally we support uniforms, it gives an identity to the school, a
sense of belonging to the pupils (though they won't admit it...),
avoids peer pressure to have the latest fashion. Which can put
extreme stress on both parents and pupils who can't afford £50 for a
T shirt every other week, or even £50 for a T shirt full stop.

--
Cheers
Dave.

jgharston wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTLD...layer_embedded

Do schools /really/ have uniforms nowadays, or is it just on TV?
As I remember, school uniforms were all abolished in the '80s in
a purge^Wsurge of left-liberal idological mad^Wnon^Wconformism.

JGH

Both of ours do (primary and secondary state) and it is well adhered to. The
primary uniform is "optional but strongly encouraged" and in practise 100%
wear it - because we have a school that is small but everyone is proud of
it. It's not expensive - all bar the PE top and jumper are bog standard
M&S/BHS wear anyway and the jumpers last more or less, until the kid grows
out of them and aren't expensive either. Even for "poor" parents, it is
probably a cheaper option than letting the kids buy less robust designer
gear and knackering it climbing trees! And it does have the advantage that
there is no constant fashion show going on everyday with a "keep up with the
Jones" whining at me to get every more fancy clothes for my kids.

The secondary school lot do too, which is more surprising - not sure if it
is "optional" or not there.

If I get the later train to work, it's full of extremely well turned out
kids going to the various grammars around Tonbridge/T Wells.

--
Tim Watts

In message , Tim Watts
wrote

M&S/BHS wear

Surely you mean George at Asda, Tesco or Matalan?

--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Alan wrote:

In message , Tim Watts
wrote

M&S/BHS wear

Surely you mean George at Asda, Tesco or Matalan?


Probably - just happens there are none near me...

--
Tim Watts

In article 98554561-3750-4dc4-b166-
,
says...
Do schools /really/ have uniforms nowadays, or is it just on TV?

All those round here do.

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

Skipweasel wrote:
All those round here do.

When I was at school in the '80s the council abolished school
uniform against the wishes of parents and senior teachers.
The council argued that it was socially divisive and oppressive
and forced children into boxes and supressed their personality.

When I was a governor at my old school in 2000-08 they
had a "uniform", which was a standard coloured jumper
with the MGS logo emboidered on it. Pah. Nothing like
the proper badge and latin motto from my day.

The school is being demolished and rebuilt and part of the
newbuild is "a full school uniform comprising shirt, tie
and blazer."

JGH

In article 0839024c-f6f5-4f3f-9cb1-
,
says...
When I was a governor at my old school in 2000-08 they
had a "uniform", which was a standard coloured jumper
with the MGS logo emboidered on it. Pah. Nothing like
the proper badge and latin motto from my day.


Our local split infants/junior school is going through the motions of
jointing up to become a primary school - though it's not yet decided it
looks likely.

We've decided that we'll almost certainly provide the children with a
jumper to suit the new uniform (they're currently different) 'cos being
a very poor area many of the parents can't easily afford a replacement,
particularly for four kids at once.

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 09:52:58 +0100, Skipweasel
wrote:

In article 0839024c-f6f5-4f3f-9cb1-
,
says...
When I was a governor at my old school in 2000-08 they
had a "uniform", which was a standard coloured jumper
with the MGS logo emboidered on it. Pah. Nothing like
the proper badge and latin motto from my day.


Our local split infants/junior school is going through the motions of
jointing up to become a primary school - though it's not yet decided it
looks likely.

We've decided that we'll almost certainly provide the children with a
jumper to suit the new uniform (they're currently different) 'cos being
a very poor area many of the parents can't easily afford a replacement,
particularly for four kids at once.

Four jumpers? That's ridiculous. Surely in these days of deficits,
cutbacks and the Big Society, poor families only need to send one of
their children to school: the others can do something more useful -
like scrubbing floors or cleaning chimneys.

Nick

"Skipweasel" wrote in message
...

We've decided that we'll almost certainly provide the children with a
jumper to suit the new uniform (they're currently different) 'cos being
a very poor area many of the parents can't easily afford a replacement,
particularly for four kids at once.

As long as the jumper doesn't have some stupid school logo on it they cost
peanuts in Asda/tesco.
Its schools that insist on logos that force parents to go to specialist
suppliers and pay through the nose for uniforms.
Its the same with blazers, you can buy one for less than the badge that some
schools want pupils to have.
I don't really understand why schools want this gang culture anyway as long
as they outlaw stupid fashions that only the better off can afford dress
isn't a problem. Its when they allow expensive fashions that some can't
afford that bullies get something to do.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 09:52:58 +0100, Skipweasel wrote:

In article 0839024c-f6f5-4f3f-9cb1-
,
says...
When I was a governor at my old school in 2000-08 they had a "uniform",
which was a standard coloured jumper with the MGS logo emboidered on
it. Pah. Nothing like the proper badge and latin motto from my day.


Our local split infants/junior school is going through the motions of
jointing up to become a primary school - though it's not yet decided it
looks likely.

We've decided that we'll almost certainly provide the children with a
jumper to suit the new uniform (they're currently different) 'cos being
a very poor area many of the parents can't easily afford a replacement,
particularly for four kids at once.

We went further and are providing the non-generic parts (blazer, tie
etc.) to all years apart from the incoming year 7.


--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 17:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Jgharston wrote :
When I was at school in the '80s the council abolished school
uniform against the wishes of parents and senior teachers.
The council argued that it was socially divisive and oppressive
and forced children into boxes and supressed their personality.

The last might be true, but allowing those whose parents could
afford such brands to wear Nike, Reebok etc whilst others are
wearing Tesco own brand is more likely to be socially divisive IMO.

Uniform should be a requirement, but the requirement should be
stated in a way that makes it affordable, e.g. plain black shoes (no
logos), not a requirement to buy particular over-priced items from
favoured suppliers who might or might not have paid backhanders to
school funds ... as was alleged in my 1960s schooldays.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on' Melbourne, Australia
www.superbeam.co.uk www.eurobeam.co.uk www.greentram.com

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 11:56:12 +1000, Tony Bryer wrote:

On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 17:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Jgharston wrote :
When I was at school in the '80s the council abolished school uniform
against the wishes of parents and senior teachers. The council argued
that it was socially divisive and oppressive and forced children into
boxes and supressed their personality.

The last might be true, but allowing those whose parents could afford
such brands to wear Nike, Reebok etc whilst others are wearing Tesco own
brand is more likely to be socially divisive IMO.

Uniform should be a requirement, but the requirement should be stated in
a way that makes it affordable, e.g. plain black shoes (no logos), not a
requirement to buy particular over-priced items from favoured suppliers
who might or might not have paid backhanders to school funds ... as was
alleged in my 1960s schooldays.

"Schools should ensure the uniform is affordable and does not act as a
barrier to parents when choosing a school. They should be able to
demonstrate to parents how best value has been achieved and keep the cost
of supplying uniform under review€�. (source: Governors guide to the Law,
p363, point 53, and DfE Guidance on Uniform, page 1 point 3)




--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article ,
says...
The last might be true, but allowing those whose parents could
afford such brands to wear Nike, Reebok etc whilst others are
wearing Tesco own brand is more likely to be socially divisive IMO.


It also depends on the kids. Ours happily sneer at labels - 'cos we've
carefully fiddled with their brains so they do. Cruel - but effective.

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

On 10/04/2011 21:51, Skipweasel wrote:
In article98554561-3750-4dc4-b166-
,
says...
Do schools /really/ have uniforms nowadays, or is it just on TV?

All those round here do.


A few years ago one of our local schools polled the kids, and went for
uniform. It saved them all the fashion fights, even the kids could see
that.

Work? My last place had a message sent around telling us we couldn't
wear jeans on Casual Friday. This came as news to those of us who were
not aware we couldn't wear them all week.

I still like the story from a previous employer many years ago, before a
very important customer visit.

Senior Manager: Are you Charlie xxxxx?
Charlie: Yes.
SM: That's no good.
C: what isn't?
SM: The way you're dressed.
C: (looking at his Armani suit) What's wrong with the way I'm dressed?
SM: They'll never believe you're an Engineer!

Andy

On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 02:40:00 -0700, jgharston wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTLD...layer_embedded

Do schools /really/ have uniforms nowadays, or is it just on TV? As I
remember, school uniforms were all abolished in the '80s in a
purge^Wsurge of left-liberal idological mad^Wnon^Wconformism.

Not round here. In fact, the two schools that recently federated, of
which I am a governor, recently defined a new common uniform. Ther4e are
government rules about costs, and sole suppliers, so that it doesn't
disadvantage less well-off parents.




--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 10/04/2011 10:40, jgharston wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTLD...layer_embedded

Do schools /really/ have uniforms nowadays, or is it just on TV?
As I remember, school uniforms were all abolished in the '80s in
a purge^Wsurge of left-liberal idological mad^Wnon^Wconformism.

JGH

We still have uniforms around here - we also still have Grammar schools.

SteveW

On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 21:27:51 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

On 10/04/2011 10:40, jgharston wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTLD...layer_embedded

Do schools /really/ have uniforms nowadays, or is it just on TV? As I
remember, school uniforms were all abolished in the '80s in a
purge^Wsurge of left-liberal idological mad^Wnon^Wconformism.

JGH

We still have uniforms around here - we also still have Grammar schools.

Yup. The one I mentioned is a 'grammar academy'...!



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article , says...
Yup. The one I mentioned is a 'grammar academy'...!


Granary?

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.