Ideas please
 

After having ground floor ceilings re-plastered for a second time, they
are once more showing cracks. I assume the joists are moving and
causing this to happen. The floors above the ceiling are extremely
noisy when anyone is upstairs.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to replace the ceilings as
re-plastering is very expensive and obviously not the answer.

Thanks in anticipation
--


Archie Gallacher

Ideas please
 

"numtys numty" wrote in message
...
After having ground floor ceilings re-plastered for a second time, they
are once more showing cracks.

Having "ground ceilings" is something only found on that tiny island
national of england, home of Robin Hood and his fairy men.

Ideas please
 

numtys numty ) wibbled on Tuesday 01
February 2011 14:36:

After having ground floor ceilings re-plastered for a second time, they
are once more showing cracks. I assume the joists are moving and
causing this to happen. The floors above the ceiling are extremely
noisy when anyone is upstairs.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to replace the ceilings as
re-plastering is very expensive and obviously not the answer.

Thanks in anticipation

I've got a couple of board joint cracks too - get used to it is my advice.
Plaster is hard and unforgiving and buildings (especially ceilings) move a
bit, especially over the seasons due to heating as well as the shock load
from above.

I'm going to smear a bit of caulk in mine and just run a strip of fresh
paint over (they've not long been painted).

For micro hairline cracks, I've peviously painted some PVA on and painted
over - seems to work in that it sticks the edges a bit and discourages tiny
movements.

Don't really notice them anyway.


Cheers

Tim
--
Tim Watts

Ideas please
 

"numtys numty" wrote

After having ground floor ceilings re-plastered for a second time, they
are once more showing cracks. I assume the joists are moving and
causing this to happen. The floors above the ceiling are extremely
noisy when anyone is upstairs.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to replace the ceilings as
re-plastering is very expensive and obviously not the answer.

Thanks in anticipation
--


Archie Gallacher

How old is your house Archie?
I suspect that most modern houses will suffer in this way.
The push towards cheap construction means that lighter beams of poorer
quality timber are used these days.
Calculations are produced to support the use of these beams and prove that
they will not fail. But they will be designed closer to the allowable
deflection than would have happened years ago. Plaster is an unforgiving
brittle coating, so as the plasterboard ceiling tries to flex, there can
only be one outcome.
Also, the lighter beams do not deaden the vibrations/sound as well as their
more substantial predecessors.
If your house is not of modern construction, then I would suspect that some
settlement has occurred to allow some movement of first floor joists. This
would not have to be serious structural stuff, just shrinkage of key timbers
would be enough to crack an expanse of plaster.

Phil

Ideas please
 

In message ,
TheScullster writes

"numtys numty" wrote

After having ground floor ceilings re-plastered for a second time, they
are once more showing cracks. I assume the joists are moving and
causing this to happen. The floors above the ceiling are extremely
noisy when anyone is upstairs.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to replace the ceilings as
re-plastering is very expensive and obviously not the answer.

Thanks in anticipation
--


Archie Gallacher

How old is your house Archie?
I suspect that most modern houses will suffer in this way.
The push towards cheap construction means that lighter beams of poorer
quality timber are used these days.
Calculations are produced to support the use of these beams and prove that
they will not fail. But they will be designed closer to the allowable
deflection than would have happened years ago. Plaster is an unforgiving
brittle coating, so as the plasterboard ceiling tries to flex, there can
only be one outcome.
Also, the lighter beams do not deaden the vibrations/sound as well as their
more substantial predecessors.
If your house is not of modern construction, then I would suspect that some
settlement has occurred to allow some movement of first floor joists. This
would not have to be serious structural stuff, just shrinkage of key timbers
would be enough to crack an expanse of plaster.

Phil


Phil,
The house was built around the mid sixties, it's really annoying to have
had the plasterers in and then find the same thing happening once again.

I'd really like to get this sorted but I'm at a loss as to what to do
about it.

She who must be obeyed has said it must be fixed!!
Anyone any Ideas how to deal with this.
The ceiling I mean, not the wife!

Thanks again.
--


Archie Gallacher

Ideas please
 

numtys numty wrote in
:

In message ,
TheScullster writes

"numtys numty" wrote

After having ground floor ceilings re-plastered for a second time,
they are once more showing cracks. I assume the joists are moving
and causing this to happen. The floors above the ceiling are
extremely noisy when anyone is upstairs.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to replace the ceilings as
re-plastering is very expensive and obviously not the answer.

Thanks in anticipation
--


Archie Gallacher

How old is your house Archie?
I suspect that most modern houses will suffer in this way.
The push towards cheap construction means that lighter beams of poorer
quality timber are used these days.
Calculations are produced to support the use of these beams and prove
that they will not fail. But they will be designed closer to the
allowable deflection than would have happened years ago. Plaster is
an unforgiving brittle coating, so as the plasterboard ceiling tries
to flex, there can only be one outcome.
Also, the lighter beams do not deaden the vibrations/sound as well as
their more substantial predecessors.
If your house is not of modern construction, then I would suspect that
some settlement has occurred to allow some movement of first floor
joists. This would not have to be serious structural stuff, just
shrinkage of key timbers would be enough to crack an expanse of
plaster.

Phil


Phil,
The house was built around the mid sixties, it's really annoying to
have had the plasterers in and then find the same thing happening once
again.

I'd really like to get this sorted but I'm at a loss as to what to do
about it.

She who must be obeyed has said it must be fixed!!
Anyone any Ideas how to deal with this.
The ceiling I mean, not the wife!

Thanks again.

Was that mine shaft your house built over properly filled?

--

All the best,

Chris

Ideas please
 

On 1 Feb, 15:48, numtys numty
wrote:
In message ,
TheScullster writes





"numtys numty" wrote

After having ground floor ceilings re-plastered for a second time, they
are once more showing cracks. I assume the joists are moving and
causing this to happen. The floors above the ceiling are extremely
noisy when anyone is upstairs.
*Does anyone have any suggestions on how to replace the ceilings as
re-plastering is very expensive and obviously not the answer.

Thanks in anticipation
--

Archie Gallacher

How old is your house Archie?
I suspect that most modern houses will suffer in this way.
The push towards cheap construction means that lighter beams of poorer
quality timber are used these days.
Calculations are produced to support the use of these beams and prove that
they will not fail. *But they will be designed closer to the allowable
deflection than would have happened years ago. *Plaster is an unforgiving
brittle coating, so as the plasterboard ceiling tries to flex, there can
only be one outcome.
Also, the lighter beams do not deaden the vibrations/sound as well as their
more substantial predecessors.
If your house is not of modern construction, then I would suspect that some
settlement has occurred to allow some movement of first floor joists. *This
would not have to be serious structural stuff, just shrinkage of key timbers
would be enough to crack an expanse of plaster.

Phil

Phil,
The house was built around the mid sixties, it's really annoying to have
had the plasterers in and then find the same thing happening once again.

I'd really like to get this sorted but I'm at a loss as to what to do
about it.

She who must be obeyed has said it must be fixed!!
Anyone any Ideas how to deal with this.
* The ceiling I mean, not the wife!

Thanks again.
--

Archie Gallacher- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I can't think of any quick and easy solution, other than caulking and
decorating over the cracks.

Do you have any idea what size the ceiling joists are, and what do
they span?

How much of a job to take up the first floor boarding? Adding
additional noggings between the ceiling joists might beef it up, and
you could also insert some sound insulation.

Cheers
Richard

Ideas please
 

"Chris Wilson" wrote in message
. ..
numtys numty wrote in
:

In message ,
TheScullster writes

"numtys numty" wrote

After having ground floor ceilings re-plastered for a second time,
they are once more showing cracks. I assume the joists are moving
and causing this to happen. The floors above the ceiling are
extremely noisy when anyone is upstairs.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to replace the ceilings as
re-plastering is very expensive and obviously not the answer.

Thanks in anticipation
--


Archie Gallacher

How old is your house Archie?
I suspect that most modern houses will suffer in this way.
The push towards cheap construction means that lighter beams of poorer
quality timber are used these days.
Calculations are produced to support the use of these beams and prove
that they will not fail. But they will be designed closer to the
allowable deflection than would have happened years ago. Plaster is
an unforgiving brittle coating, so as the plasterboard ceiling tries
to flex, there can only be one outcome.
Also, the lighter beams do not deaden the vibrations/sound as well as
their more substantial predecessors.
If your house is not of modern construction, then I would suspect that
some settlement has occurred to allow some movement of first floor
joists. This would not have to be serious structural stuff, just
shrinkage of key timbers would be enough to crack an expanse of
plaster.

Phil

Wallpaper the ceiling with an embossed paper, then emulsion, easy

Ideas please
 

On 1 Feb, 16:13, geraldthehamster wrote:
On 1 Feb, 15:48, numtys numty
wrote:





In message ,
TheScullster writes

"numtys numty" wrote

After having ground floor ceilings re-plastered for a second time, they
are once more showing cracks. I assume the joists are moving and
causing this to happen. The floors above the ceiling are extremely
noisy when anyone is upstairs.
*Does anyone have any suggestions on how to replace the ceilings as
re-plastering is very expensive and obviously not the answer.

Thanks in anticipation
--

Archie Gallacher

How old is your house Archie?
I suspect that most modern houses will suffer in this way.
The push towards cheap construction means that lighter beams of poorer
quality timber are used these days.
Calculations are produced to support the use of these beams and prove that
they will not fail. *But they will be designed closer to the allowable
deflection than would have happened years ago. *Plaster is an unforgiving
brittle coating, so as the plasterboard ceiling tries to flex, there can
only be one outcome.
Also, the lighter beams do not deaden the vibrations/sound as well as their
more substantial predecessors.
If your house is not of modern construction, then I would suspect that some
settlement has occurred to allow some movement of first floor joists. *This
would not have to be serious structural stuff, just shrinkage of key timbers
would be enough to crack an expanse of plaster.

Phil

Phil,
The house was built around the mid sixties, it's really annoying to have
had the plasterers in and then find the same thing happening once again..

I'd really like to get this sorted but I'm at a loss as to what to do
about it.

She who must be obeyed has said it must be fixed!!
Anyone any Ideas how to deal with this.
* The ceiling I mean, not the wife!

Thanks again.
--

Archie Gallacher- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I can't think of any quick and easy solution, other than caulking and
decorating over the cracks.

Do you have any idea what size the ceiling joists are, and what do
they span?

How much of a job to take up the first floor boarding? Adding
additional noggings between the ceiling joists might beef it up, and
you could also insert some sound insulation.

Cheers
Richard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I meant to add, if you are looking at replacing the ceilings anyway,
you could do the beefing up and the insulating from underneath.

Or get a big oak beam and fix it under the joists at mid span,
supported in the wall at each end. Horse brasses optional.

Cheers
Richard

Ideas please
 

In article , miduck8
@hotmail.com says...
Wallpaper the ceiling with an embossed paper, then emulsion, easy


With a rubber sheet, if the movement is severe.

Actually, thinking about it, rubber sheets are ideal for severe
movements anyway.

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

Ideas please
 

Skipweasel wrote:

In article , miduck8
@hotmail.com says...
Wallpaper the ceiling with an embossed paper, then emulsion, easy

With a rubber sheet, if the movement is severe.

Actually, thinking about it, rubber sheets are ideal for severe
movements anyway.

Like after a strong curry?

Ideas please
 

In message
,
geraldthehamster writes
On 1 Feb, 15:48, numtys numty
wrote:
In message ,
TheScullster writes





"numtys numty" wrote

After having ground floor ceilings re-plastered for a second time, they
are once more showing cracks. I assume the joists are moving and
causing this to happen. The floors above the ceiling are extremely
noisy when anyone is upstairs.
*Does anyone have any suggestions on how to replace the ceilings as
re-plastering is very expensive and obviously not the answer.

Thanks in anticipation
--

Archie Gallacher

How old is your house Archie?
I suspect that most modern houses will suffer in this way.
The push towards cheap construction means that lighter beams of poorer
quality timber are used these days.
Calculations are produced to support the use of these beams and prove that
they will not fail. *But they will be designed closer to the allowable
deflection than would have happened years ago. *Plaster is an unforgiving
brittle coating, so as the plasterboard ceiling tries to flex, there can
only be one outcome.
Also, the lighter beams do not deaden the vibrations/sound as well as their
more substantial predecessors.
If your house is not of modern construction, then I would suspect that some
settlement has occurred to allow some movement of first floor joists. *This
would not have to be serious structural stuff, just shrinkage of key timbers
would be enough to crack an expanse of plaster.

Phil

Phil,
The house was built around the mid sixties, it's really annoying to have
had the plasterers in and then find the same thing happening once again.

I'd really like to get this sorted but I'm at a loss as to what to do
about it.

She who must be obeyed has said it must be fixed!!
Anyone any Ideas how to deal with this.
* The ceiling I mean, not the wife!

Thanks again.
--

Archie Gallacher- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I can't think of any quick and easy solution, other than caulking and
decorating over the cracks.

Do you have any idea what size the ceiling joists are, and what do
they span?

How much of a job to take up the first floor boarding? Adding
additional noggings between the ceiling joists might beef it up, and
you could also insert some sound insulation.

Cheers
Richard

Richard,
I may have to "paper over the cracks" but I really don't want to go this
way,
I'll stick around and see if any better ideas come up in reply to my
post.

Thanks again,
--


Archie Gallacher

Ideas please
 

Line it with something like this:

http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/m/MAVNWLPV/

Ideas please
 

In article ,
ldomain says...
Wallpaper the ceiling with an embossed paper, then emulsion, easy

With a rubber sheet, if the movement is severe.

Actually, thinking about it, rubber sheets are ideal for severe
movements anyway.

Like after a strong curry?

The world fell out of my bottom.

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

Ideas please
 

On Feb 1, 2:36*pm, numtys numty
wrote:
*After having ground floor ceilings re-plastered for a second time, they
*are once more showing cracks. I assume the joists are moving and
*causing this to happen. The floors above the ceiling are extremely
*noisy when anyone is upstairs.
* Does anyone have any suggestions on how to replace the ceilings as
*re-plastering is very expensive and obviously not the answer.

*Thanks in anticipation
--

Archie Gallacher

If the cracks are very long it's likely that they are the joints
between the plaster boards. These should have had scrim applied to
them when they were plastered. (It's a roll of stuff that looks like
loose weave bandage.) Made out of glass fibres these days. You can
reskim the cieling putting some in or you can grind a track out along
the cracks about three inches wide with a belt sander and put some
in. You will need to use unibond in the plaster to get it to stick.
Messy job.
http://www.thediyschool.co.uk/plaste...tes-scrim-tape
http://www.diydata.com/general_build...rd_filling.php

Ideas please
 

In message
,
Rednadnerb writes
Line it with something like this:

http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/m/MAVNWLPV/

Thanks for this, it might be the way I'll have to go.
--


Archie Gallacher

Ideas please
 

Skipweasel ) wibbled on Tuesday 01 February
2011 17:33:

In article ,
ldomain says...
Wallpaper the ceiling with an embossed paper, then emulsion, easy

With a rubber sheet, if the movement is severe.

Actually, thinking about it, rubber sheets are ideal for severe
movements anyway.

Like after a strong curry?

The world fell out of my bottom.


You want to try my homebrew chilli oil - two pots of dried crushed chillis,
cooked in just enough oil to wet it and a handfull of black peppercorns to
spice it up a bit.

Still doesn't blow my face off (though Mr Colon has a few words to say) -
might need to start ordering some of Blair's special sauces soon - there is
now nothing in the shops that I cannot consume with ease. I feel an order
for some "MegaDeath" coming on. At least there's an upgrade path terminating
at "Special Reserve 3am".

--
Tim Watts

Ideas please
 

On Feb 1, 6:01 pm, harry wrote:
On Feb 1, 2:36 pm, numtys numty
wrote:

After having ground floor ceilings re-plastered for a second time, they
are once more showing cracks. I assume the joists are moving and
causing this to happen. The floors above the ceiling are extremely
noisy when anyone is upstairs.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to replace the ceilings as
re-plastering is very expensive and obviously not the answer.

Thanks in anticipation
--

Archie Gallacher

If the cracks are very long it's likely that they are the joints
between the plaster boards. These should have had scrim applied to
them when they were plastered. (It's a roll of stuff that looks like
loose weave bandage.) Made out of glass fibres these days. You can
reskim the cieling putting some in or you can grind a track out along
the cracks about three inches wide with a belt sander and put some

in. You will need to use unibond in the plaster to get it to stick.

I've never had to use unibond to make plaster stick to scrim tape??

Jim K

Ideas please
 

On Feb 1, 2:36*pm, numtys numty
wrote:
*I assume the joists are moving and *causing this to happen. The
floors above the ceiling are extremely *noisy when anyone is upstairs.

Are your upstairs walls built on the floors?
What colour is your mortar?
Are your floorboards cupped?

Ideas please
 

On Feb 1, 2:36*pm, numtys numty
wrote:
*After having ground floor ceilings re-plastered for a second time, they
*are once more showing cracks. I assume the joists are moving and
*causing this to happen. The floors above the ceiling are extremely
*noisy when anyone is upstairs.
* Does anyone have any suggestions on how to replace the ceilings as
*re-plastering is very expensive and obviously not the answer.

*Thanks in anticipation


You dont give us enough info to know whats causing the cracks. It
could be hairline cracking between boards, structural movement,
disintegrating lime plaster, or timber frame construction that moves,
undersize joists, or pretty much anything. Without said info, how can
we know the solution. Papering over them, regardlses of the actual
material used, is unlikely to stop it happening again.

Often ceiling cracks are overrated, its very easy to run a finger of
filler along them at painting time.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...n_a_Wood_Floor
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...oise_reduction


NT

Ideas please
 

In message
,
Tabby writes
On Feb 1, 2:36*pm, numtys numty
wrote:
*After having ground floor ceilings re-plastered for a second time, they
*are once more showing cracks. I assume the joists are moving and
*causing this to happen. The floors above the ceiling are extremely
*noisy when anyone is upstairs.
* Does anyone have any suggestions on how to replace the ceilings as
*re-plastering is very expensive and obviously not the answer.

*Thanks in anticipation


You dont give us enough info to know whats causing the cracks. It
could be hairline cracking between boards, structural movement,
disintegrating lime plaster, or timber frame construction that moves,
undersize joists, or pretty much anything. Without said info, how can
we know the solution. Papering over them, regardlses of the actual
material used, is unlikely to stop it happening again.

Often ceiling cracks are overrated, its very easy to run a finger of
filler along them at painting time.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...n_a_Wood_Floor
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...oise_reduction


NT
Sorry,
I really don't know anything about the fabrication other than that the
internal walls on the upper floor are built on top of the flooring,
which is chipboard. The noises are the boards squeaking when anyone is
moving about upstairs.
The ground floor has a composite base, there is no sign of external
wall movement or sinking.

Having lived here for just under twenty years, I'm sure the main house
structure is sound. It's just annoying, having to try to mend the
ceilings when they have been plastered twice before already!

Thanks for all reply's
--


Archie Gallacher

Ideas please
 

On 1 Feb,
geraldthehamster wrote:

How much of a job to take up the first floor boarding? Adding
additional noggings between the ceiling joists might beef it up, and
you could also insert some sound insulation.

Taking up a single board in the right place, glueing in herringbone
strutting, and anchoring the end joists to the walls will stiffen up the
ceiling considerably, possibly enough to stop the cracking.

It is easier to fit strutting tight across the gaps between joists than it is
to fit tight noggins.

--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

Ideas please
 

On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 15:48:49 +0000, numtys numty
wrote:

In message ,
TheScullster writes

"numtys numty" wrote

After having ground floor ceilings re-plastered for a second time, they
are once more showing cracks. I assume the joists are moving and
causing this to happen. The floors above the ceiling are extremely
noisy when anyone is upstairs.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to replace the ceilings as
re-plastering is very expensive and obviously not the answer.

How old is your house Archie?
I suspect that most modern houses will suffer in this way.
The push towards cheap construction means that lighter beams of poorer
quality timber are used these days.
Calculations are produced to support the use of these beams and prove that
they will not fail. But they will be designed closer to the allowable
deflection than would have happened years ago. Plaster is an unforgiving
brittle coating, so as the plasterboard ceiling tries to flex, there can
only be one outcome.
Also, the lighter beams do not deaden the vibrations/sound as well as their
more substantial predecessors.
If your house is not of modern construction, then I would suspect that some
settlement has occurred to allow some movement of first floor joists. This
would not have to be serious structural stuff, just shrinkage of key timbers
would be enough to crack an expanse of plaster.

The house was built around the mid sixties, it's really annoying to have
had the plasterers in and then find the same thing happening once again.

If it's like mine then the joists are very "flexible". You may just
have to get used to it.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

Ideas please
 

On 1 Feb, 23:48, wrote:
On 1 Feb, *
* * *geraldthehamster wrote:

How much of a job to take up the first floor boarding? Adding
additional noggings between the ceiling joists might beef it up, and
you could also insert some sound insulation.

Taking up a single board in the right place, glueing in herringbone
strutting, and anchoring the end joists to the walls *will stiffen up the
ceiling considerably, possibly enough to stop the cracking.

It is easier to fit strutting tight across the gaps between joists than it is
to fit tight noggins.

--
* B Thumbs
* Change lycos to yahoo to reply

Cut noggins 1/16 over and bray with a lump hammer.

Cheers
Richard

Ideas please
 

numtys numty wrote:
I'd really like to get this sorted but I'm at a loss as to what to do
about it.
She who must be obeyed has said it must be fixed!!

The house needs to spend 100 years settling to properly align.
It's up to SWMBO to then work out how to make that 100 years
happen right now instantly.

(Me, had people demand I magically make chemical and physical
changes happen faster than physically possible? Moi?)

JGH

Ideas please
 

On Feb 1, 7:40*pm, Jim K wrote:
On Feb 1, 6:01 pm, harry wrote:





On Feb 1, 2:36 pm, numtys numty
wrote:

*After having ground floor ceilings re-plastered for a second time, they
*are once more showing cracks. I assume the joists are moving and
*causing this to happen. The floors above the ceiling are extremely
*noisy when anyone is upstairs.
* Does anyone have any suggestions on how to replace the ceilings as
*re-plastering is very expensive and obviously not the answer.

*Thanks in anticipation
--

Archie Gallacher

If the cracks are very long it's likely that they are the joints
between the plaster boards. *These should have had scrim applied to
them when they were plastered. *(It's a roll of stuff that looks like
loose weave bandage.) Made out of glass fibres these days. * You can
reskim the cieling putting some in or you can grind a track out along
the cracks about three inches wide with a belt sander and put some
in. *You will need to use *unibond in the plaster to get it to stick.

I've never had to use unibond to make plaster stick to scrim tape??

Jim K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It helps to stick new plaster to old especially where you want to
feather the edges out.