Sigh. Having sanded and varnished most of my downstairs floors
(suspended over a space too small to access), fitted new skirtings, a
hearth and a fireplace (which seemed like quite enough work at the
time), I'm now wishing that I'd really bitten the bullet, taken up the
floorboards and insulated underneath. Even if I'd demolished most of
the tongues in the process, I could have ripped them into straight-
edged boards.

I have one room to go, and might go the whole hog there (ironically
it's a spare room). But for the rest of the ground floor, the idea of
pulling off all the skirtings (how else to remove the T&G boards whose
ends go under them, and are fixed with brads an inch from the wall?),
and doing the floors again, is heartbreaking, though I might just bite
the bullet when I've completed all the other jobs. Or I'll content
myself with lots of rugs.

Which leaves the Holy Grail, discussed on here before - how to
insulate under a suspended timber floor, with no access from
underneath, without removing the floor.

Cheers
Richard

On 4 Oct, 10:03, geraldthehamster wrote:
snip

I have one room to go, and might go the whole hog there (ironically
it's a spare room). But for the rest of the ground floor, the idea of
pulling off all the skirtings (how else to remove the T&G boards whose
ends go under them, and are fixed with brads an inch from the wall?),

how and with what would you propose to insulate? can't you bodge
*something* for the last (5inch?) board upto the skirts?

Which leaves the Holy Grail, discussed on here before - how to
insulate under a suspended timber floor, with no access from
underneath, without removing the floor.

voodoo? ;)

Jim K

"geraldthehamster" wrote in message
...
Sigh. Having sanded and varnished most of my downstairs floors
(suspended over a space too small to access), fitted new skirtings, a
hearth and a fireplace (which seemed like quite enough work at the
time), I'm now wishing that I'd really bitten the bullet, taken up the
floorboards and insulated underneath. Even if I'd demolished most of
the tongues in the process, I could have ripped them into straight-
edged boards.

I have one room to go, and might go the whole hog there (ironically
it's a spare room). But for the rest of the ground floor, the idea of
pulling off all the skirtings (how else to remove the T&G boards whose
ends go under them, and are fixed with brads an inch from the wall?),
and doing the floors again, is heartbreaking, though I might just bite
the bullet when I've completed all the other jobs. Or I'll content
myself with lots of rugs.

Which leaves the Holy Grail, discussed on here before - how to
insulate under a suspended timber floor, with no access from
underneath, without removing the floor.

Cheers
Richard

Rats; mice; and wasps seem to be pretty good at filling up under floors with
insulation.

Otherwise: foam through the knotholes. The cavity wall insulation people
very quickly filled up the walls in my old house. Sure they could quote for
floors if you asked.

S

geraldthehamster wrote:


Which leaves the Holy Grail, discussed on here before - how to
insulate under a suspended timber floor, with no access from
underneath, without removing the floor.

Filling the entire void is not an option, unless you want your joists to rot
away within a few short years.

You can't get access under the floor and you don't want to take the entire
floor up? - then it cannot be insulated, end of story.

You could insulate above the existing floor, with 75mm celotex or similar,
then put a floating floor above that, but then you'd lose about 90mm of room
height (and your internal doors would be 90mm shorter too) plus you'd have
to put new skirtings all the way around



--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

On 4 Oct, 21:03, "Phil L" wrote:
geraldthehamster wrote:

Which leaves the Holy Grail, discussed on here before - how to
insulate under a suspended timber floor, with no access from
underneath, without removing the floor.

Filling the entire void is not an option, unless you want your joists to rot
away within a few short years.

You can't get access under the floor and you don't want to take the entire
floor up? - then it cannot be insulated, end of story.

You could insulate above the existing floor, with 75mm celotex or similar,
then put a floating floor above that, but then you'd lose about 90mm of room
height (and your internal doors would be 90mm shorter too) plus you'd have
to put new skirtings all the way around

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

These have been my conclusions, every time I've thought about it :-(

I can only see two ways to make the floor warmer, short of a detested
fitted carpet, with its propensity to collect dust, and stains from
coffee, wine and mouse blood. Or ripping the lot out and replacing
with concrete, which would be stupid and unnecessary ;-)

One is to remove my skirtings, prise up the floorboards, insulate,
tidy up the boards on a table saw, refit, fit new skirtings and
decorate. In three rooms and a hallway.

The other is to continue to collect relatively inexpensive Persian
rugs, and attach Tri-Iso insulation to the backs of them. That way
much of the heat loss would be eliminated.

Hence my reference to the Holy Grail - don't bring me common sense,
bring me solutions ;-)

Cheers
Richard

On 5 Oct, 12:04, geraldthehamster wrote:
On 4 Oct, 21:03, "Phil L" wrote:



geraldthehamster wrote:

Which leaves the Holy Grail, discussed on here before - how to
insulate under a suspended timber floor, with no access from
underneath, without removing the floor.

Filling the entire void is not an option, unless you want your joists to rot
away within a few short years.

You can't get access under the floor and you don't want to take the entire
floor up? - then it cannot be insulated, end of story.

You could insulate above the existing floor, with 75mm celotex or similar,
then put a floating floor above that, but then you'd lose about 90mm of room
height (and your internal doors would be 90mm shorter too) plus you'd have
to put new skirtings all the way around

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

These have been my conclusions, every time I've thought about it :-(

I can only see two ways to make the floor warmer, short of a detested
fitted carpet, with its propensity to collect dust, and stains from
coffee, wine and mouse blood. Or ripping the lot out and replacing
with concrete, which would be stupid and unnecessary ;-)

One is to remove my skirtings, prise up the floorboards, insulate,
tidy up the boards on a table saw, refit, fit new skirtings and
decorate. In three rooms and a hallway.

The other is to continue to collect relatively inexpensive Persian
rugs, and attach Tri-Iso insulation to the backs of them. That way
much of the heat loss would be eliminated.

Hence my reference to the Holy Grail - don't bring me common sense,
bring me solutions ;-)

Cheers
Richard

Surely only one or two long boards removed would provide access to
blow insulation under?
Even if you wanted to remove ALL the boards, sawing through the tongue
on one with insert favourite sawing device here would release them
all (once skirtings off).

On 5 Oct, 12:04, geraldthehamster wrote:
On 4 Oct, 21:03, "Phil L" wrote:



geraldthehamster wrote:

Which leaves the Holy Grail, discussed on here before - how to
insulate under a suspended timber floor, with no access from
underneath, without removing the floor.

Filling the entire void is not an option, unless you want your joists to rot
away within a few short years.

You can't get access under the floor and you don't want to take the entire
floor up? - then it cannot be insulated, end of story.

You could insulate above the existing floor, with 75mm celotex or similar,
then put a floating floor above that, but then you'd lose about 90mm of room
height (and your internal doors would be 90mm shorter too) plus you'd have
to put new skirtings all the way around

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

These have been my conclusions, every time I've thought about it :-(

I can only see two ways to make the floor warmer, short of a detested
fitted carpet, with its propensity to collect dust, and stains from
coffee, wine and mouse blood. Or ripping the lot out and replacing
with concrete, which would be stupid and unnecessary ;-)

One is to remove my skirtings, prise up the floorboards, insulate,
tidy up the boards on a table saw, refit, fit new skirtings and
decorate. In three rooms and a hallway.

The other is to continue to collect relatively inexpensive Persian
rugs, and attach Tri-Iso insulation to the backs of them. That way
much of the heat loss would be eliminated.

Hence my reference to the Holy Grail - don't bring me common sense,
bring me solutions ;-)

Cheers
Richard

Do wonder about insulating under floor voids, roof voids have air and
draughts deliberately introduced to stop rot, concerned that creating
static air under floor timbers might introduce a rot encouraging
enviroment?

Cheers
Adam

Adam Aglionby wrote:
On 5 Oct, 12:04, geraldthehamster wrote:
On 4 Oct, 21:03, "Phil L" wrote:



geraldthehamster wrote:
Which leaves the Holy Grail, discussed on here before - how to
insulate under a suspended timber floor, with no access from
underneath, without removing the floor.
Filling the entire void is not an option, unless you want your joists to rot
away within a few short years.
You can't get access under the floor and you don't want to take the entire
floor up? - then it cannot be insulated, end of story.
You could insulate above the existing floor, with 75mm celotex or similar,
then put a floating floor above that, but then you'd lose about 90mm of room
height (and your internal doors would be 90mm shorter too) plus you'd have
to put new skirtings all the way around
--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008
These have been my conclusions, every time I've thought about it :-(

I can only see two ways to make the floor warmer, short of a detested
fitted carpet, with its propensity to collect dust, and stains from
coffee, wine and mouse blood. Or ripping the lot out and replacing
with concrete, which would be stupid and unnecessary ;-)

One is to remove my skirtings, prise up the floorboards, insulate,
tidy up the boards on a table saw, refit, fit new skirtings and
decorate. In three rooms and a hallway.

The other is to continue to collect relatively inexpensive Persian
rugs, and attach Tri-Iso insulation to the backs of them. That way
much of the heat loss would be eliminated.

Hence my reference to the Holy Grail - don't bring me common sense,
bring me solutions ;-)

Cheers
Richard

Do wonder about insulating under floor voids, roof voids have air and
draughts deliberately introduced to stop rot, concerned that creating
static air under floor timbers might introduce a rot encouraging
enviroment?


That's why you should use the same system as for rooves. Celotex and
leave the air circulation alone.

Cheers
Adam

On Oct 5, 12:16*pm, Adam Aglionby wrote:
On 5 Oct, 12:04, geraldthehamster wrote:





On 4 Oct, 21:03, "Phil L" wrote:

geraldthehamster wrote:

Which leaves the Holy Grail, discussed on here before - how to
insulate under a suspended timber floor, with no access from
underneath, without removing the floor.

Filling the entire void is not an option, unless you want your joists to rot
away within a few short years.

You can't get access under the floor and you don't want to take the entire
floor up? - then it cannot be insulated, end of story.

You could insulate above the existing floor, with 75mm celotex or similar,
then put a floating floor above that, but then you'd lose about 90mm of room
height (and your internal doors would be 90mm shorter too) plus you'd have
to put new skirtings all the way around

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

These have been my conclusions, every time I've thought about it :-(

I can only see two ways to make the floor warmer, short of a detested
fitted carpet, with its propensity to collect dust, and stains from
coffee, wine and mouse blood. Or ripping the lot out and replacing
with concrete, which would be stupid and unnecessary ;-)

One is to remove my skirtings, prise up the floorboards, insulate,
tidy up the boards on a table saw, refit, fit new skirtings and
decorate. In three rooms and a hallway.

The other is to continue to collect relatively inexpensive Persian
rugs, and attach Tri-Iso insulation to the backs of them. That way
much of the heat loss would be eliminated.

Hence my reference to the Holy Grail - don't bring me common sense,
bring me solutions ;-)

Cheers
Richard

Do wonder about insulating under floor voids, roof voids have air and
draughts deliberately introduced to stop rot, concerned that creating
static air under floor timbers might introduce a rot encouraging
enviroment?

Cheers
Adam- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Absolutely - it's important not to interfere with the ventilation,
which is why you can't simply fill the void through a hole.

cheers
Richard

geraldthehamster wrote:
On 4 Oct, 21:03, "Phil L" wrote:
geraldthehamster wrote:

Which leaves the Holy Grail, discussed on here before - how to
insulate under a suspended timber floor, with no access from
underneath, without removing the floor.
Filling the entire void is not an option, unless you want your joists to rot
away within a few short years.

You can't get access under the floor and you don't want to take the entire
floor up? - then it cannot be insulated, end of story.

You could insulate above the existing floor, with 75mm celotex or similar,
then put a floating floor above that, but then you'd lose about 90mm of room
height (and your internal doors would be 90mm shorter too) plus you'd have
to put new skirtings all the way around

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

These have been my conclusions, every time I've thought about it :-(

I can only see two ways to make the floor warmer, short of a detested
fitted carpet, with its propensity to collect dust, and stains from
coffee, wine and mouse blood. Or ripping the lot out and replacing
with concrete, which would be stupid and unnecessary ;-)

One is to remove my skirtings, prise up the floorboards, insulate,
tidy up the boards on a table saw, refit, fit new skirtings and
decorate. In three rooms and a hallway.

The other is to continue to collect relatively inexpensive Persian
rugs, and attach Tri-Iso insulation to the backs of them. That way
much of the heat loss would be eliminated.

Hence my reference to the Holy Grail - don't bring me common sense,
bring me solutions ;-)


Bite the bullet Richard, and lift the floor.

Then wedge 60-100mm celotex between the joists, tape over with the
approved tape. seal any edges with expanding foam till its completely
airtight, and re-lay the floor.


Cheers
Richard

On 05/10/2010 12:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Bite the bullet Richard, and lift the floor.

Then wedge 60-100mm celotex between the joists, tape over with the
approved tape. seal any edges with expanding foam till its completely
airtight, and re-lay the floor.

One of the issues I have procrastinating about doing a DIY job is
overestimating the effort and potential problems I may encounter.
Sometimes it turns out easier than I first thought, but getting started
is hard.

The OP has the training run-up available to do the undecorated room
first. Press on!!

Now, reading these posts is making me wish that we'd done the same for
the floors as well as the external walls (which we did Celotex) prior to
our recent whole house replastering. But that would be messy now, take
effort, I'd have to clean up, price of fish could rise...

See ;-)

--
Adrian C

On Oct 5, 12:50*pm, Adrian C wrote:
On 05/10/2010 12:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Bite the bullet Richard, and lift the floor.

Then wedge 60-100mm celotex between the joists, tape over with the
approved tape. seal any edges with expanding foam till its completely
airtight, and re-lay the floor.

One of the issues I have procrastinating about doing a DIY job is
overestimating the effort and potential problems I may encounter.
Sometimes it turns out easier than I first thought, but getting started
is hard.

The OP has the training run-up available to do the undecorated room
first. Press on!!

Now, reading these posts is making me wish that we'd done the same for
the floors as well as the external walls (which we did Celotex) prior to
our recent whole house replastering. But that would be messy now, take
effort, I'd have to clean up, price of fish could rise...

See ;-)

--
Adrian C

I think perhaps when the memory of having just *finished* the rooms in
question has faded (after a couple of years, perhaps), and when I've
done all the other, not inconsiderable jobs (like building an
extension), I must just be able to come to terms with ripping this out
and doing it. I know how to do it, technically, but thanks for all the
advice.

I admit to being slightly disappointed that nobody seems to be better
at thinking outside the box than I am ;-)

Cheers
Richard

On 5 Oct, 12:04, geraldthehamster wrote:
On 4 Oct, 21:03, "Phil L" wrote:









geraldthehamster wrote:

Which leaves the Holy Grail, discussed on here before - how to
insulate under a suspended timber floor, with no access from
underneath, without removing the floor.

Filling the entire void is not an option, unless you want your joists to rot
away within a few short years.

You can't get access under the floor and you don't want to take the entire
floor up? - then it cannot be insulated, end of story.

You could insulate above the existing floor, with 75mm celotex or similar,
then put a floating floor above that, but then you'd lose about 90mm of room
height (and your internal doors would be 90mm shorter too) plus you'd have
to put new skirtings all the way around

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

These have been my conclusions, every time I've thought about it :-(

I can only see two ways to make the floor warmer, short of a detested
fitted carpet, with its propensity to collect dust, and stains from
coffee, wine and mouse blood. Or ripping the lot out and replacing
with concrete, which would be stupid and unnecessary ;-)

One is to remove my skirtings, prise up the floorboards, insulate,
tidy up the boards on a table saw, refit, fit new skirtings and
decorate. In three rooms and a hallway.

The other is to continue to collect relatively inexpensive Persian
rugs, and attach Tri-Iso insulation to the backs of them. That way
much of the heat loss would be eliminated.

Hence my reference to the Holy Grail - don't bring me common sense,
bring me solutions ;-)

Cheers
Richard

Don't tell me about it !! Mine is an 18th Century stone cottage - in
the 1920's it was upgraded and the original earth /stone slab? floor
(where did the slabs go?) was replaced by a well ventilated suspended
wood floor throughout, plus the white-washed stone walls were covered
over with lath and plaster. Our first winters were awful (but we were
young and in love!!) as the underfloor winds funnelled up between the
plasterwork and the 3 ft thick stone walls into the roof space - we
huddled round a small coal fire with a massive heatsink all round us.

The walls were all dealt with - stripped off, insulated and re-
boarded, but I didn't do the floors. Wish I had but really too old
now !

Rob

geraldthehamster wrote:
I can only see two ways to make the floor warmer, short of a detested
fitted carpet, with its propensity to collect dust,

There's this invention that's been around for, ooo, only about 150
years,
called a va-cuum clean-er.

JGH
--
People who want decking should be.