Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

Good day. I've moved into a house that has had central heating pipework
installed (all copper, with soldered joints). I plan to complete the work
soon, installing radiators and a boiler.

Is there a way to test the integrity of the pipework (i.e., test for leaks)
prior to fist use?

In each room, the radiator inlet and outlet pipes are projecting up through
the floor, and have been capped off.

In the kitchen, the feed and return pipes terminate with open ends, where
the boiler will be located.

Does anyone knows of a way to test for leaks in the pipework, prior to
first use, say, by using compressed air or something? If it's a way that
helps locate any leaks, even better! Judging by the other pipework in the
house, the guy that installed it was not terribly professional.

Thank you.

Al

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

In article ,
"AL_z" writes:

Good day. I've moved into a house that has had central heating pipework
installed (all copper, with soldered joints). I plan to complete the work
soon, installing radiators and a boiler.

Is there a way to test the integrity of the pipework (i.e., test for leaks)
prior to fist use?

In each room, the radiator inlet and outlet pipes are projecting up through
the floor, and have been capped off.

In the kitchen, the feed and return pipes terminate with open ends, where
the boiler will be located.

Does anyone knows of a way to test for leaks in the pipework, prior to
first use, say, by using compressed air or something? If it's a way that
helps locate any leaks, even better! Judging by the other pipework in the
house, the guy that installed it was not terribly professional.

I used compressed air (compressed with a bicycle pump) and looked
for pressure drop and checked joints with gas leak detector spray.

BIG WARNING: This is really dangerous though. If some part of the
system fails, the energy stored in the compressed air could have
brass fittings flying around like bullets. For amusement value,
I released a JG pushfit endcap after testing a section of plumbing.
It probably ricocheted off the walls floor and ceiling about 10
times before it slowed enough for me to see it, and I was deaf for
an hour or so from the noise of the air rushing out.

What you're supposed to do is fill with water with just a little
air to pressurise it, but once you've got the system wet,
resoldering any joins becomes harder. Also air leaks much faster
than water, so if it's airtight, you know it's even more watertight.
Leaking air doesn't damage any furnishings either. Even the gas
leak detector spray is specifically non-staining to furnishings.

If you do an air test, probably best to make sure there's no one
else in the vacinity of the plumbing, and no kids in the house at
all, in case something goes bang.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

On 13 Aug, 13:03, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
I used compressed air (compressed with a bicycle pump) and looked
for pressure drop and checked joints with gas leak detector spray.

leak detector spray - how's that work then?

Jim K

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

Jim K wrote:
On 13 Aug, 13:03, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
I used compressed air (compressed with a bicycle pump) and looked
for pressure drop and checked joints with gas leak detector spray.

leak detector spray - how's that work then?

Jim K

It's generally a soapy-type stuff - spray it on a joint and if bubbles
appear you've found your leak.

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

If you do an air test, probably best to make sure there's no one
else in the vacinity of the plumbing, and no kids in the house at
all, in case something goes bang.

.... but someone near enough to come to the rescue.

--
Mike Clarke

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

In article ,
Jim K writes:
On 13 Aug, 13:03, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
I used compressed air (compressed with a bicycle pump) and looked
for pressure drop and checked joints with gas leak detector spray.

leak detector spray - how's that work then?

It's a fancy version of washing up liquid solution, except not corrosive
(unlike washing up liquid, so no harmful residue left when it dries),
it grows much smaller bubbles so you get clumps of what looks like white
cuckoo-spit, and it seems to have a penetrating oil like ability to get
right into connections, even when that means flowing up.

The one I usually pick up from local plumbers merchant is called LD90
in an airosol can with an internal weighted takeup so can works at any
angle.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

On Aug 13, 2:34*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
* * * * Jim K writes:

On 13 Aug, 13:03, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
I used compressed air (compressed with a bicycle pump) and looked
for pressure drop and checked joints with gas leak detector spray.

leak detector spray - how's that work then?

It's a fancy version of washing up liquid solution, except not corrosive
(unlike washing up liquid, so no harmful residue left when it dries),
it grows much smaller bubbles so you get clumps of what looks like white
cuckoo-spit, and it seems to have a penetrating oil like ability to get
right into connections, even when that means flowing up.

The one I usually pick up from local plumbers merchant is called LD90
in an airosol can with an internal weighted takeup so can works at any
angle.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Cap the open ends off and try one of these...

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/products.jsp?id=72940&ts=13795

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

Cap the open ends off and try one of these...

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...72940&ts=13795

Excellent thing. I use one of those. But do bear in mind the dangers
of air pressure testing, as mentioned by an earlier reply.

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

Lee Nowell wrote in news:621774a9-2177-4c62-a768-
:


Cap the open ends off and try one of these...

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...72940&ts=13795


Thank you - that looks like a very functional solution. I was tentatively
hoping someone would have a method that doesn't cost as much. But at the
end of the day, I suppose it might be better to spend £29.88+p&p rather
than risk the damage that a water leak could cause.

Al

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

AL_z wrote:
Lee Nowell wrote in news:621774a9-2177-4c62-a768-
:

Cap the open ends off and try one of these...

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...72940&ts=13795


Thank you - that looks like a very functional solution. I was tentatively
hoping someone would have a method that doesn't cost as much. But at the
end of the day, I suppose it might be better to spend £29.88+p&p rather
than risk the damage that a water leak could cause.

Al

I hired a water pressure pump and meter for a couple of days for a fiver
from the builders merchant.

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

Jim K wrote:
On 13 Aug, 13:03, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
I used compressed air (compressed with a bicycle pump) and looked
for pressure drop and checked joints with gas leak detector spray.

leak detector spray - how's that work then?

Jim K

It's diluted fairy liquid, it bubbles where a leak is allowing gas to escape

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

On 13/08/2010 22:02, Phil L wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On 13 Aug, 13:03, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
I used compressed air (compressed with a bicycle pump) and looked
for pressure drop and checked joints with gas leak detector spray.

leak detector spray - how's that work then?

Jim K

It's diluted fairy liquid, it bubbles where a leak is allowing gas to escape

I have written on this subject before.

If the leak detection fluid is applied to a joint and the leak is big
enough to blow the detection fluid away before forming a bubble, then
you fall into the trap of assuming there is no leak.

I have used the following way to detect leaks in all sorts of dangerous
gasses from CO2 through oxygen, to hydrazine (rocket fuel.)
Once you get as far as oxygen, then you can't use normal soaps and have
to change to something that is less volatile when mixed with the gas.

To test a low volatile gas pipe for leaks, after pressurising the pipe,
take a small container full of the fluid and with a brush try to create
a collar of small bubbles all around the joint. If you find you can't do
this, suspect a leak and investigate. It will be the leak blowing the
detection fluid out of its way.

If you get a collar all around the joint, examine closely with good
light and a mirror to see if there is any growth in the number of
bubbles. If there is, suspect a pin hole leak and investigate. If the
collar is stable, or the bubbles are slowly popping away, but leaving a
full collar behind, then you have a sound joint. The observations should
be taken over about a minute.

Nearly forgot, if checking a compression joint, bubble up everything
from before the first nut to after the second one. A leak can occur
anywhere in-between the two pipes.

HTH

Dave

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

wrote:
Cap the open ends off and try one of these...

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...72940&ts=13795

Excellent thing. I use one of those. But do bear in mind the dangers
of air pressure testing, as mentioned by an earlier reply.

I've used one of these for the same purpose, with appropriate adapters:
seems to be essentially the same, but a helluva lot cheaper:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/82412/Hand-Tools/Plumbing-Tools/Pressure-Test-Equipment/Monument-Tools-Mains-Water-Pressure-Test-Gauge

David

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"AL_z" writes:

Good day. I've moved into a house that has had central heating pipework
installed (all copper, with soldered joints). I plan to complete the work
soon, installing radiators and a boiler.

Is there a way to test the integrity of the pipework (i.e., test for
leaks)
prior to fist use?

In each room, the radiator inlet and outlet pipes are projecting up
through
the floor, and have been capped off.

In the kitchen, the feed and return pipes terminate with open ends, where
the boiler will be located.

Does anyone knows of a way to test for leaks in the pipework, prior to
first use, say, by using compressed air or something? If it's a way that
helps locate any leaks, even better! Judging by the other pipework in the
house, the guy that installed it was not terribly professional.

I used compressed air (compressed with a bicycle pump) and looked
for pressure drop and checked joints with gas leak detector spray.

BIG WARNING: This is really dangerous though. If some part of the
system fails, the energy stored in the compressed air could have
brass fittings flying around like bullets. For amusement value,
I released a JG pushfit endcap after testing a section of plumbing.
It probably ricocheted off the walls floor and ceiling about 10
times before it slowed enough for me to see it, and I was deaf for
an hour or so from the noise of the air rushing out.

What you're supposed to do is fill with water with just a little
air to pressurise it, but once you've got the system wet,
resoldering any joins becomes harder. Also air leaks much faster
than water, so if it's airtight, you know it's even more watertight.
Leaking air doesn't damage any furnishings either. Even the gas
leak detector spray is specifically non-staining to furnishings.

If you do an air test, probably best to make sure there's no one
else in the vacinity of the plumbing, and no kids in the house at
all, in case something goes bang.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

I would have thought just putting an inflated balloon over an outlet would
have told you enough.

S

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

"John" wrote in message ...
Jim K wrote:
On 13 Aug, 13:03, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
I used compressed air (compressed with a bicycle pump) and looked
for pressure drop and checked joints with gas leak detector spray.

leak detector spray - how's that work then?

Jim K

It's generally a soapy-type stuff - spray it on a joint and if bubbles
appear you've found your leak.

Ah, but sprays are already full of bubbles. Even when one uses detergent
solution it can sometimes be difficult to tell which bubbles are from a leak
and which you just made when you squirted.

S

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 12:03:27 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

If you do an air test, probably best to make sure there's no one else in
the vacinity of the plumbing, and no kids in the house at all, in case
something goes bang.

Just do a tightness test as for gas work i.e. up to 20mbar or so with a
manometer (which you can make yourself with winemaker's tubing if you're
not already kitted out). Use an airbed inflator (manual) or bicycle pump
(carefully) to pressurise. If that holds with no drop over several
minutes then pressure test with water at mains pressure (which is
typically 2 or 3 times as much as you'll be running at for central
heating.)





--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

The astronomer married a star

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

On 13 Aug, 23:58, Lobster wrote:
wrote:
Cap the open ends off and try one of these...

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...72940&ts=13795

Excellent thing. I use one of those. But do bear in mind the dangers
of air pressure testing, as mentioned by an earlier reply.

I've used one of these for the same purpose, with appropriate adapters:
seems to be essentially the same, but a helluva lot cheaper:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/82412/Hand-Tools/Plumbing-Tools/Pressur...

David

The advantage of the air test gauge is the valve, both for attaching a
footpump and letting down the pressure gently - though that doesn't
explain the price difference.

When using either of them for repetitive testing, you need to make up
a set of adapters to pipes so the the gauge joint doesn't get worn/
damaged by repeated cycling.

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

In article ,
"AL_z" writes:
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote in news:i43caf$3mi$1
@news.eternal-september.org:


I used compressed air (compressed with a bicycle pump) and looked
for pressure drop and checked joints with gas leak detector spray.

Thanks for the input. What method did you use to test for pressure drop?

Dry Pressure Tester:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...72940&ts=13795
(I think it was about £15 when I bought it.)

I've had it some years now, and I've had to replace the O ring seal.
Buy a handfull of 15 and 22mm JG pushfit endcaps too, for sealing.
Also, the 15mm ones are the same O ring when the Dry Pressure Tester's
one wears out.

When I was doing the heating, I was only in the house at weekends
to work on it. I usually left a new section of circuit pumped up
over the week and checked if it lost pressure next weekend.
Probably not such a good idea if the house is occupied at the time.

I originally intended to pump up to 3 bar, but
a) It occured to me how dangerous this is,
b) pumping up a circuit which includes, say, 2 radiators to 3 bar
with my punge type bicycle pump was killing me (much harder than
pumping up a bicycle tyre to 3 bar).
c) because air is orders of magnitude less viscous than water, it
leaks orders of magnitude faster, so leaks which you'd never
notice with water with still get found and fixed, even at
lower test pressure. Usually went for 1 - 2 bar -- enough to
blow apart any missed joints.

Let the pressure out by depressing the valve pin in the tester,
or a radiator bleed key, not by opening a pipe or any other
sudden release method.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 09:52:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


Cap the open ends off and try one of these...

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...72940&ts=13795

Excellent thing. I use one of those. But do bear in mind the dangers
of air pressure testing, as mentioned by an earlier reply.

Just finishing adding to/altering my CH system, so lots of remade
compression joints and about 20 new solder joints. This topic came up at
just the right time.

Now, it's a combi boiler so made to run at 1 - 1.5 Bar, with a max. of 3
Bar.
Would it be reasonable to pump up the system to about 2.5 Bar and use the
boiler's gauge to monitor the pressure? I've a track pump that can manage
about 6 Bar into a tyre in about a dozen strokes, so shouldn't be to
onerous for 8 rads.
Apart from the relatively large amount of air at low pressure (rather than
the small amount of expansion of water normally present) the system will be
within its design pressure, so would pressurising the boiler with air
instead of water cause any damage?
It'd certainly be a cheap and easy method :-)
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

Spamlet wrote:
"John" wrote in message ...
Jim K wrote:
On 13 Aug, 13:03, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
I used compressed air (compressed with a bicycle pump) and looked
for pressure drop and checked joints with gas leak detector spray.
leak detector spray - how's that work then?

It's generally a soapy-type stuff - spray it on a joint and if bubbles
appear you've found your leak.

Ah, but sprays are already full of bubbles. Even when one uses detergent
solution it can sometimes be difficult to tell which bubbles are from a leak
and which you just made when you squirted.

No you can see new bubbles forming around the source of the leak -
that's the whole point, surely. Bubbles remain stable (or slowly
dissappear) when there is no leak.

David

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

Spamlet wrote:
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"AL_z" writes:
Good day. I've moved into a house that has had central heating pipework
installed (all copper, with soldered joints). I plan to complete the work
soon, installing radiators and a boiler.

Is there a way to test the integrity of the pipework (i.e., test for
leaks)
prior to fist use?

In each room, the radiator inlet and outlet pipes are projecting up
through
the floor, and have been capped off.

In the kitchen, the feed and return pipes terminate with open ends, where
the boiler will be located.

Does anyone knows of a way to test for leaks in the pipework, prior to
first use, say, by using compressed air or something? If it's a way that
helps locate any leaks, even better! Judging by the other pipework in the
house, the guy that installed it was not terribly professional.
I used compressed air (compressed with a bicycle pump) and looked
for pressure drop and checked joints with gas leak detector spray.

BIG WARNING: This is really dangerous though. If some part of the
system fails, the energy stored in the compressed air could have
brass fittings flying around like bullets. For amusement value,
I released a JG pushfit endcap after testing a section of plumbing.
It probably ricocheted off the walls floor and ceiling about 10
times before it slowed enough for me to see it, and I was deaf for
an hour or so from the noise of the air rushing out.

What you're supposed to do is fill with water with just a little
air to pressurise it, but once you've got the system wet,
resoldering any joins becomes harder. Also air leaks much faster
than water, so if it's airtight, you know it's even more watertight.
Leaking air doesn't damage any furnishings either. Even the gas
leak detector spray is specifically non-staining to furnishings.

If you do an air test, probably best to make sure there's no one
else in the vacinity of the plumbing, and no kids in the house at
all, in case something goes bang.


I would have thought just putting an inflated balloon over an outlet would
have told you enough.

What outlet? This method verifies the integrity of all the joints in an
entire system.

David

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...

I used compressed air (compressed with a bicycle pump) and looked
for pressure drop and checked joints with gas leak detector spray.

If the pressure is too high the spray will not show leaks. Compressed air
is not advised. You can use a gas U tube gauge to maximum and leave
overnight. The only problem is that solidified flux in joints can hold that
sort of pressure

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

"Spamlet" wrote in
:

I would have thought just putting an inflated balloon over an outlet
would have told you enough.

Excellent idea!! I think that might work well. Definitely worth trying.
Thanks for that. I knew there must be some cost-free method, using readily-
available materials. I can put the ballon over the return pipe and pump
some air into the feed pipe with bicyclwe pump. To do this, I guess I can
fix (somehow) a bicycle tyre valve into the end of the open pipe. Maybe
epoxy it into a hole drilled in the face of a push-fit end cap...

Al

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

YAPH wrote in :


Just do a tightness test as for gas work i.e. up to 20mbar or so with a
manometer (which you can make yourself with winemaker's tubing if you're
not already kitted out). Use an airbed inflator (manual) or bicycle pump
(carefully) to pressurise. If that holds with no drop over several
minutes then pressure test with water at mains pressure (which is
typically 2 or 3 times as much as you'll be running at for central
heating.)


Excellent idea - thank you! I do love methods that are easy and don't cost.
I will I will try Spamlet's ballon suggestion first (because of its
simplicity); if that doesn't work, your nanometer suggestion will probably
be the next thing I'll try.

Al

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

The Natural Philosopher wrote in
:

Thank you - that looks like a very functional solution. I was
tentatively hoping someone would have a method that doesn't cost as
much. But at the end of the day, I suppose it might be better to
spend ¶œ29.88+p&p rather than risk the damage that a water leak could
cause.

Al

I hired a water pressure pump and meter for a couple of days for a
fiver from the builders merchant.

That's good to know about - thanks. Initially, though, I want to try and
test the cirquit without using water. The air pressure methods offered here
sound promising. I'll be overjoyed if someone has a method that actually
provides clues as to where any leak is located. I've been trying to think
of a way to blow some incense smoke into the cirquit, prior to pumping up
the air pressure, or something like that. Then, if there's a leak under the
floorboards in one particular room, that room might (with luck) be
identified by the aroma within that room! Just an idea. Other suggestions
welcome.

Al

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

"Lobster" wrote in message
news:Jes9o.13400$6C1.2051@hurricane...
Spamlet wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...
Jim K wrote:
On 13 Aug, 13:03, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
I used compressed air (compressed with a bicycle pump) and looked
for pressure drop and checked joints with gas leak detector spray.
leak detector spray - how's that work then?

It's generally a soapy-type stuff - spray it on a joint and if bubbles
appear you've found your leak.

Ah, but sprays are already full of bubbles. Even when one uses detergent
solution it can sometimes be difficult to tell which bubbles are from a
leak and which you just made when you squirted.

No you can see new bubbles forming around the source of the leak - that's
the whole point, surely. Bubbles remain stable (or slowly dissappear) when
there is no leak.

agree fully ... same if you paint on some washing up liquid solution ... you
can see bubbles clearly


Interesting on a leaking gas fitting, a CORGI regtd old school gas fitter
tested with cigarette lighter .... safe enough was his comment as long as
gas is left on, flame can't get back inside pipe .... no need for fancy
sprays !

Testing water pipework for leaks, prior to first use??
 

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"AL_z" writes:

Good day. I've moved into a house that has had central heating
pipework installed (all copper, with soldered joints). I plan to
complete the work soon, installing radiators and a boiler.

Is there a way to test the integrity of the pipework (i.e., test for
leaks) prior to fist use?

In each room, the radiator inlet and outlet pipes are projecting up
through the floor, and have been capped off.

In the kitchen, the feed and return pipes terminate with open ends,
where the boiler will be located.

Does anyone knows of a way to test for leaks in the pipework, prior
to first use, say, by using compressed air or something? If it's a
way that helps locate any leaks, even better! Judging by the other
pipework in the house, the guy that installed it was not terribly
professional.

I used compressed air (compressed with a bicycle pump) and looked
for pressure drop and checked joints with gas leak detector spray.

BIG WARNING: This is really dangerous though. If some part of the
system fails, the energy stored in the compressed air could have
brass fittings flying around like bullets. For amusement value,
I released a JG pushfit endcap after testing a section of plumbing.
It probably ricocheted off the walls floor and ceiling about 10
times before it slowed enough for me to see it, and I was deaf for
an hour or so from the noise of the air rushing out.

What you're supposed to do is fill with water with just a little
air to pressurise it, but once you've got the system wet,
resoldering any joins becomes harder. Also air leaks much faster
than water, so if it's airtight, you know it's even more watertight.
Leaking air doesn't damage any furnishings either. Even the gas
leak detector spray is specifically non-staining to furnishings.

If you do an air test, probably best to make sure there's no one
else in the vacinity of the plumbing, and no kids in the house at
all, in case something goes bang.

The air pressure testing of a CH system in a new build is one case where
everyone is told to leave the building.

Usually it is done at the end of the day pressured to 8 bar and left
overnight to see if the pressure has dropped.

--
Adam