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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

Hello all

I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The
rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and
we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room
fireplace one day.

The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming
through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer
can't work out where this is coming from.

Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for
scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was
measuring to see if they got bigger.
http://yfrog.com/7bixtj

Here are pictures from the outside:
http://yfrog.com/4vso3j
http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj

The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.

If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and
then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water
is being funnelled down quite effectively.

Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be?

Thanks for your thoughts
Calum
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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)


The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.

I'd replace all that mortar round the pots. The rain could either be
coming straight through it, or there are hairline cracks at the edges.
Either way, it's no big deal to replace it
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On Jun 7, 8:01 am, stuart noble wrote:
The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.


I'd replace all that mortar round the pots. The rain could either be
coming straight through it, or there are hairline cracks at the edges.
Either way, it's no big deal to replace it


me too defo. do the other pot as well - if neighbours spose you should
ask first....

Jim K
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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)


"Jim K" wrote in message
...
On Jun 7, 8:01 am, stuart noble wrote:
The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.


I'd replace all that mortar round the pots. The rain could either be
coming straight through it, or there are hairline cracks at the edges.
Either way, it's no big deal to replace it


me too defo. do the other pot as well - if neighbours spose you should
ask first....

Jim K


I personally don't like the look of the lead flashing, might be
worth checking for water pooling in that area.

I built a shed once, it fell down.

--
The man who smiles when things go wrong has
thought of someone to blame it on.

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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

Calum wrote:
Hello all

I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The
rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and
we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room
fireplace one day.

The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming
through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer
can't work out where this is coming from.

Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for
scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was
measuring to see if they got bigger.
http://yfrog.com/7bixtj

Here are pictures from the outside:
http://yfrog.com/4vso3j
http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj

The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.

If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and
then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water
is being funnelled down quite effectively.

Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be?


Bloody obvious.

You have a flat roof and **** all flashing on the stack.,


Go up and prise up the lead. Bet you its all wet underneath.


You need to take roofing felt an carry it up the sides of the stack, to
where the flashing starts, and probably mastic it in, then put in new
flashing and dress it several inches out along and over the roofing
felt. So that driving rain under the flashing has to go a long way and
then UP to the flashing top, before it meets the brick.

Yu might also, as others have suggested, at the same time repoint the
stack and remortar the cowl top.


Personally I would scaffold up, or whatever, and demolish the stack top,
and start again and build a new top, done properly.

I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been
badly done.

It should be redone in conjunction with the chimney.







Thanks for your thoughts
Calum



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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

On Jun 7, 10:58 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Calum wrote:
Hello all


I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The
rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and
we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room
fireplace one day.


The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming
through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer
can't work out where this is coming from.


Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for
scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was
measuring to see if they got bigger.
http://yfrog.com/7bixtj


Here are pictures from the outside:
http://yfrog.com/4vso3j
http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj


The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.


If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and
then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water
is being funnelled down quite effectively.


Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be?


Bloody obvious.

You have a flat roof and **** all flashing on the stack.,

Go up and prise up the lead. Bet you its all wet underneath.

You need to take roofing felt an carry it up the sides of the stack, to
where the flashing starts, and probably mastic it in, then put in new
flashing and dress it several inches out along and over the roofing
felt. So that driving rain under the flashing has to go a long way and
then UP to the flashing top, before it meets the brick.

Yu might also, as others have suggested, at the same time repoint the
stack and remortar the cowl top.

Personally I would scaffold up, or whatever, and demolish the stack top,
and start again and build a new top, done properly.

I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been
badly done.


care to expand - for the benefit of the OP?

Jim K
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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

Bloody obvious.

You have a flat roof and **** all flashing on the stack.,


Go up and prise up the lead. Bet you its all wet underneath.


You need to take roofing felt an carry it up the sides of the stack, to
where the flashing starts, and probably mastic it in, then put in new
flashing and dress it several inches out along and over the roofing
felt. So that driving rain under the flashing has to go a long way and
then UP to the flashing top, before it meets the brick.

Yu might also, as others have suggested, at the same time repoint the
stack and remortar the cowl top.


Personally I would scaffold up, or whatever, and demolish the stack top,
and start again and build a new top, done properly.

I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been
badly done.

It should be redone in conjunction with the chimney.




I'd go along with most of that, tho If it were me and it seems that the
water doesn't take that long to appear, I'd prolly chop a bit out of the
wall where damp and then try a hose at the bottom sides of the chimney
and see if thats where its at and if not the top, might just might show
up where its leaking...

But as its just been done why isn't the builder sorting this out?..

--
Tony Sayer

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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

In article ,
Calum writes:
Hello all

I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The
rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and
we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room
fireplace one day.

The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming
through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer
can't work out where this is coming from.

Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for
scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was
measuring to see if they got bigger.
http://yfrog.com/7bixtj

Here are pictures from the outside:
http://yfrog.com/4vso3j
http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj

The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.

If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and
then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water
is being funnelled down quite effectively.

Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be?


Difficult to tell.

I bought a couple of those elephant's foot cowls like the one you
have, decided they wouldn't reduce the amount of rainfall going
down the chimney, and took them back. Actually, they may make it
worse by capturing water from a larger area than the original pot
opening, and making it run down the inside of the pot - there's
nothing to make the water running down the outside of the pot
(unless you siliconed it on).
You could repeat the plastic bag test on this flue (but you can't
block the airflow permanently like this).

I then went a bought a couple of these instead:
http://www.brewercowls.co.uk/index.p...tent&Itemid=18
although I fixed them in a different way so the strap isn't visible
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1619546457
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1619546457

In theory, rain water going in the pot shouldn't cause any problems.
In practice it might because the internal pointing has been washed
away over the years of rain exposure without any heating to dry it.
Also, if the flue isn't ventilated at bottom _and_ top, it will fill
up with condensation, which will soak through the brickwork in time.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
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Jim K wrote:
On Jun 7, 10:58 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Calum wrote:
Hello all
I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The
rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and
we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room
fireplace one day.
The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming
through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer
can't work out where this is coming from.
Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for
scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was
measuring to see if they got bigger.
http://yfrog.com/7bixtj
Here are pictures from the outside:
http://yfrog.com/4vso3j
http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj
The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.
If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and
then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water
is being funnelled down quite effectively.
Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be?

Bloody obvious.

You have a flat roof and **** all flashing on the stack.,

Go up and prise up the lead. Bet you its all wet underneath.

You need to take roofing felt an carry it up the sides of the stack, to
where the flashing starts, and probably mastic it in, then put in new
flashing and dress it several inches out along and over the roofing
felt. So that driving rain under the flashing has to go a long way and
then UP to the flashing top, before it meets the brick.

Yu might also, as others have suggested, at the same time repoint the
stack and remortar the cowl top.

Personally I would scaffold up, or whatever, and demolish the stack top,
and start again and build a new top, done properly.

I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been
badly done.


care to expand - for the benefit of the OP?


I thought I had..


I don't like the way the flat roof has been sealed to the chimney. It
looks inadequate.

Water can run down the sides inside, and appear ..well wherever there is
a route. Probably through porous mortar.




Jim K

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On Jun 7, 12:05 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been
badly done.


care to expand - for the benefit of the OP?


I thought I had..

I don't like the way the flat roof has been sealed to the chimney. It
looks inadequate.

Water can run down the sides inside, and appear ..well wherever there is
a route. Probably through porous mortar.


your last critique appeared to me to be a general "crap flat roof"
broadside so was hoping you could enlighten the OP with specifics taht
he could use to bolster his possible arguments with the professhunals
who did it - seems all you are picking at is the height of the stack
flashing and what may or may not be underneath it...

Jim K


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Jim K wrote:
On Jun 7, 12:05 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been
badly done.
care to expand - for the benefit of the OP?

I thought I had..

I don't like the way the flat roof has been sealed to the chimney. It
looks inadequate.

Water can run down the sides inside, and appear ..well wherever there is
a route. Probably through porous mortar.


your last critique appeared to me to be a general "crap flat roof"
broadside so was hoping you could enlighten the OP with specifics taht
he could use to bolster his possible arguments with the professhunals
who did it - seems all you are picking at is the height of the stack
flashing and what may or may not be underneath it...


Well all flat roofs are carp, because simple overlapping of waterproof
elements will not in general be enough, as water can and does work its
way between the layers in any sort of wind.

The whole point of a roof slope is to make gravity work for you against
wind pressure.

Typically what you might do for a stack is to create a flashing,
soldered together that extends a LONG way from the chimney base

And run the felt up inside it..but then the corners are vulnerable as well.

So you probably end up with some sort of 'soaker' system. a lead layer
under the felt, the felt and a lead layer over it, and all raised up at
the stack, so that water has to run up the felt under the top lead, then
down the lower lead and a long long way before it ends up dripping off
the edge of the soaker through the ceiling..so put another layer of felt
under hat as well that goes all the way to the flat roof edge etc. And
seal it all with flexible mastic and pray.

It's a series of defenses in the end, all compromised by the fact that
gravity on a flat roof is just as likely to make water move towards the
places you don't want it, as the places you do.







Jim K

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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Calum wrote:
Hello all

I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The
rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and
we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room
fireplace one day.

The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming
through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer
can't work out where this is coming from.

Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for
scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was
measuring to see if they got bigger.
http://yfrog.com/7bixtj

Here are pictures from the outside:
http://yfrog.com/4vso3j
http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj

The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.

If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and
then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water
is being funnelled down quite effectively.

Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be?


Bloody obvious.

You have a flat roof and **** all flashing on the stack.,


There appears to be very little if any overlap.

I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been
badly done.


Looks very patchy to me, in the larger picture it
shows up even more just how naff it looks, especially
the area around the stack.




--
The man who smiles when things go wrong has
thought of someone to blame it on.

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On 7 June, 07:22, Calum wrote:
Hello all

I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. *The
rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and
we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room
fireplace one day.

The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming
through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer
can't work out where this is coming from.

Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for
scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was
measuring to see if they got bigger.http://yfrog.com/7bixtj

Here are pictures from the outside:http://yfrog.com/4vso3jhttp://yfrog.com/6ds5mj

The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. *The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.

If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and
then take a week or two to dry out. *To me that looks like the water
is being funnelled down quite effectively.

Could it really be soaking in from the brick? *What else could it be?

Thanks for your thoughts
Calum


In line with the others I can't see quite how the flashing round the
stack is working.

On the basis that the CH flue isn't used and your 'one day' could well
be a long way away, I would take down the whole stack and seal the
roof properly I'd leave a ventilator out of the flue to allow air
flow and mark where it is. If 'one day' does arrive some time then
put in a stainless steel liner and flue outlet, again properly sealed
in.
Rob
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On Jun 7, 9:29 am, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 7, 8:01 am, stuart noble wrote:

The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.


I'd replace all that mortar round the pots. The rain could either be
coming straight through it, or there are hairline cracks at the edges.
Either way, it's no big deal to replace it


me too defo. do the other pot as well - if neighbours spose you should
ask first....

Jim K


zooming in on the pics it seems someone has "pointed" the stack and
flaunching around pots with silicone?....

Was that done after the problem 1st manifested or is that a previous
bodge?

Jim K
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On 7 June, 07:22, Calum wrote:
Hello all

I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. *The
rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and
we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room
fireplace one day.

The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming
through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer
can't work out where this is coming from.

Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for
scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was
measuring to see if they got bigger.http://yfrog.com/7bixtj

Here are pictures from the outside:http://yfrog.com/4vso3jhttp://yfrog.com/6ds5mj

The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. *The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.

If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and
then take a week or two to dry out. *To me that looks like the water
is being funnelled down quite effectively.

Could it really be soaking in from the brick? *What else could it be?


TBH flashing looks pretty normal, read lead/zinc for copper here

http://www.copper.org/applications/a...s/chimney.html

Would normally think flashing failure giving damp signs higher up wall
or on ceiling as water runs down outside of stalk internally.

Brick has lready suffered water damage, the damaged faces look as if
damp has penetrated behind then frozen and blown the faces off.

Stack looks like its beginning to split as well, silicone sealant is
great but structurally gluing split chimney stack back together from
outside is probably pushing it.

Demolish and make good seems best option if don`t need vents and can
get [planners to agree, take down and put back together again
properely if they don`t.

Looks a bit far gone for this sort of treatment to work, water
proofness on lot of bricks has gone.

http://www.rkiroof.com/id74.html

I ferking hate roofs, its all down to opinion and any of them, in any
combination could be right.

Cheers
Adam



Thanks for your thoughts
Calum




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Adam Aglionby wrote:
On 7 June, 07:22, Calum wrote:
Hello all

I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The
rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and
we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room
fireplace one day.

The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming
through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer
can't work out where this is coming from.

Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for
scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was
measuring to see if they got bigger.http://yfrog.com/7bixtj

Here are pictures from the outside:http://yfrog.com/4vso3jhttp://yfrog.com/6ds5mj

The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.

If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and
then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water
is being funnelled down quite effectively.

Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be?


TBH flashing looks pretty normal, read lead/zinc for copper here

http://www.copper.org/applications/a...s/chimney.html

Would normally think flashing failure giving damp signs higher up wall
or on ceiling as water runs down outside of stalk internally.


NOT if iuts been RENDERED internally. It will then migrate behind the
almost waterproof rendering via the mortar - particularly lime or weak
mortar - till the rendering stops. Then the plaster will suck like crazy.




Brick has lready suffered water damage, the damaged faces look as if
damp has penetrated behind then frozen and blown the faces off.

Stack looks like its beginning to split as well, silicone sealant is
great but structurally gluing split chimney stack back together from
outside is probably pushing it.


Indeed.

Demolish and make good seems best option if don`t need vents and can
get [planners to agree, take down and put back together again
properely if they don`t.


Well we agree on the ideal solutions, anyway.

Looks a bit far gone for this sort of treatment to work, water
proofness on lot of bricks has gone.

http://www.rkiroof.com/id74.html

I ferking hate roofs, its all down to opinion and any of them, in any
combination could be right.


nah. Rooves is great until people wot don't unnerstand em start ****in
wiv em.

I had a leak..on the new tiles..builders looked, and said '******* Dave
didn't do soakers' and he was right., a little slip of lead=no more leaks.


There are right ways, and ways that simpoly dont work.

It needs taking to bits and doing right.


Cheers
Adam



Thanks for your thoughts
Calum


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I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been
badly done.


Yes, it's part of the conversion. They've been back once already to
look at it. They'll be back again soon...
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But as its just been done why isn't the builder sorting this out?..

They are coming back. At one point they were talking about dry-lining
inside - definitely not doing that. They appear to have come to the
end of their ideas tho, which is why I thought I'd post and see if
anyone had any thoughts - which they do! All interesting comments...
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zooming in on the pics it seems someone has "pointed" the stack and
flaunching around pots with silicone?....

Was that done after the problem 1st manifested or is that a previous
bodge?


I see what you're saying. They have been back once to try and
resolve, but I'm not sure exactly what they did. I think I need to
get up there and take a look myself as camera pics (camera stuck to
broom handle poked out of windows!) aren't ideal.

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Calum wrote:
zooming in on the pics it seems someone has "pointed" the stack and
flaunching around pots with silicone?....

Was that done after the problem 1st manifested or is that a previous
bodge?


I see what you're saying. They have been back once to try and
resolve, but I'm not sure exactly what they did. I think I need to
get up there and take a look myself as camera pics (camera stuck to
broom handle poked out of windows!) aren't ideal.

Lift the flashing and take pictures of what's underneath.

If the roofing felt is carried up a bit that's a help, and there ought
to be gobs of tar or mastic there as well. Nit bloody silicone either.

If the roofing felt finishes at the chimney, as does that crap excuse
for flashing, its a total disaster. They MUST overlap.







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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Bloody obvious.

You have a flat roof and **** all flashing on the stack.,


Go up and prise up the lead. Bet you its all wet underneath.


You need to take roofing felt an carry it up the sides of the stack,
to where the flashing starts, and probably mastic it in, then put in
new flashing and dress it several inches out along and over the
roofing felt. So that driving rain under the flashing has to go a
long way and then UP to the flashing top, before it meets the brick.


Who's to say the felt doesn't already go up behind the lead? - my bet is
that it does, but this isn't the problem.


Yu might also, as others have suggested, at the same time repoint the
stack and remortar the cowl top.


Personally I would scaffold up, or whatever, and demolish the stack
top, and start again and build a new top, done properly.

I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been
badly done.

It should be redone in conjunction with the chimney.


IME you can't seal a chimney with lead on a flat roof - where they've took
the felt up the chimney sides and then flashed over it, they can't seal the
corners and this is where it's getting in, that is to say, the felt is split
at each corner and doesn't go 'around' the corner in one piece, and as you
say, the lead is just covering brickwork at this point.

I wouldn't flash a chimney like this with lead onto a flat roof - it needs
something completely different, torch-on would probably be best but not very
permanent

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008


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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

#1 Examine how the roofing felt turns up under the lead, because as
posted I believe you may have a problem there.

#2 Repoint the chimney, SBR in the mortar where necessary.

Absolutely do not dry-line or the moisture behind will produce a
string of problems with floorboards, joists, track through any party
wall nearby - trying to hide the problem is a recipe for a total
disaster that should be obvious and worries me that they should
suggest it. Makes me want to examine that roof more closely.

BTW, you can get wireless and wired cameras quite cheaply - it could
be useful to stick one in an appropriate position. From the suggest of
*wet plaster* in moderate rain I really do wonder about that flat roof
re funneling water.
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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

Calum wrote:
Hello all

I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The
rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and
we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room
fireplace one day.

The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming
through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer
can't work out where this is coming from.

Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for
scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was
measuring to see if they got bigger.
http://yfrog.com/7bixtj

Here are pictures from the outside:
http://yfrog.com/4vso3j
http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj

The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.

If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and
then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water
is being funnelled down quite effectively.

Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be?

Thanks for your thoughts
Calum

stick the camera up there an hour after it's rained -
are there still puddles?

Better tie a ladder up there
and go up in various weathers,
pour buckets of water on it etc.



Maybe squeeze some thickish plastic under the flat roof
around the chimney
so that water flows away from the chimney.

[g]

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On 08/06/10 13:24, george [dicegeorge] wrote:

Better tie a ladder up there
and go up in various weathers,
pour buckets of water on it etc.


I was about to suggest something similar: wait for a dry day and take a
hose up there. Working from the least likely to the most likely culprit
areas, pour loads of water from an un-nozzeled hose with an observer
inside to look for any evidence.

If that doesn't yield anything (it might not) - OP could be looking at a
combination of wind and rain blowing the water back under something, in
which case repeat the excercise with a spray gun on the hose.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.
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Calum wrote:
Hello all

I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The
rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and
we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room
fireplace one day.

The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming
through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer
can't work out where this is coming from.

Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for
scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was
measuring to see if they got bigger.
http://yfrog.com/7bixtj

Here are pictures from the outside:
http://yfrog.com/4vso3j
http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj

The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.

If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and
then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water
is being funnelled down quite effectively.

Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be?

Thanks for your thoughts
Calum



upon closer inspection of your pictures, iut seems to me that the water
isn't coming down the inside of the chimney but down the outside.
Am I correct in assuming the walls have been dot&dabbed? - these wet patches
look like DL adhesive to me, and if they are, then the water is coming down
the face of the brickwork that they are stuck to (which it must have been
doing BEFORE it was covered up! *) and the water is going through the
adhesive and into the plasterboard.


*Which begs the question, why did anyone cover up an obviously wet wall?


--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008




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Phil L wrote:
Calum wrote:
Hello all

I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The
rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and
we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room
fireplace one day.

The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming
through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer
can't work out where this is coming from.

Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for
scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was
measuring to see if they got bigger.
http://yfrog.com/7bixtj

Here are pictures from the outside:
http://yfrog.com/4vso3j
http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj

The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.

If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and
then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water
is being funnelled down quite effectively.

Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be?

Thanks for your thoughts
Calum



upon closer inspection of your pictures, iut seems to me that the water
isn't coming down the inside of the chimney but down the outside.
Am I correct in assuming the walls have been dot&dabbed? - these wet patches
look like DL adhesive to me, and if they are, then the water is coming down
the face of the brickwork that they are stuck to (which it must have been
doing BEFORE it was covered up! *) and the water is going through the
adhesive and into the plasterboard.


*Which begs the question, why did anyone cover up an obviously wet wall?


AHA! that explains the round patches. They are the dabs!

And coming down the outside is exactly what the balance of us here
reckon: The flashing is crap.

But I don't reckon given the dry spring, the wall would have been wet.
Not till the latest downpours.


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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

AHA! that explains the round patches. They are the dabs!

And coming down the outside is exactly what the balance of us here
reckon: The flashing is crap.

But I don't reckon given the dry spring, the wall would have been wet.
Not till the latest downpours.


Yep, without doubt the flashing's are ****e - on one side it doesn't even
reach the roof - it stops about an inch short

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008


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On Jun 8, 2:18 pm, "Phil L" wrote:
Calum wrote:
Hello all


I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The
rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and
we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room
fireplace one day.


The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming
through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer
can't work out where this is coming from.


Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for
scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was
measuring to see if they got bigger.
http://yfrog.com/7bixtj


Here are pictures from the outside:
http://yfrog.com/4vso3j
http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj


The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.


If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and
then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water
is being funnelled down quite effectively.


Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be?


Thanks for your thoughts
Calum


upon closer inspection of your pictures, iut seems to me that the water
isn't coming down the inside of the chimney but down the outside.
Am I correct in assuming the walls have been dot&dabbed? - these wet patches
look like DL adhesive to me, and if they are, then the water is coming down
the face of the brickwork that they are stuck to (which it must have been
doing BEFORE it was covered up! *) and the water is going through the
adhesive and into the plasterboard.

*Which begs the question, why did anyone cover up an obviously wet wall?


mmm if there's so much water coming down the outer surface of the
chimney breast to soak thru pb dabs placed here and there - shurely
there'd be some other evidence of *lots* of water getting in - in the
room below the loft conversion perchance?

OP - can you orientate us and tell us (somehow) where the c breast is
relative to the stack in the pics? i.e. specifically what part of the
chimney stack is directly above the damp area? are the damp spots in
pic all there are in loft? or are there more? any signs in lower rooms
(yet)??

Jim K
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upon closer inspection of your pictures, iut seems to me that the water
isn't coming down the inside of the chimney but down the outside.
Am I correct in assuming the walls have been dot&dabbed? - these wet patches
look like DL adhesive to me, and if they are, then the water is coming down
the face of the brickwork that they are stuck to (which it must have been
doing BEFORE it was covered up! *) and the water is going through the
adhesive and into the plasterboard.

*Which begs the question, why did anyone cover up an obviously wet wall?


Yes, the walls have been dot & dabbed. The wall may not have looked
wet before. Work began in the winter when we had lots of snow, and
ice and things were actually quite dry.
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Calum wrote:

Yes, the walls have been dot & dabbed. The wall may not have looked
wet before. Work began in the winter when we had lots of snow, and
ice and things were actually quite dry.


The flashing's failed, it needs replacing and *not* patching up.

Personally, if it were mine, I would want something other than lead as I
don't think it's suitable in this application.

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008




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Phil L wrote:
Calum wrote:

Yes, the walls have been dot & dabbed. The wall may not have looked
wet before. Work began in the winter when we had lots of snow, and
ice and things were actually quite dry.


The flashing's failed, it needs replacing and *not* patching up.

Personally, if it were mine, I would want something other than lead as I
don't think it's suitable in this application.

Oh its suitable, but its not a complete answer.
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Thanks for all the answers so far. I'm going to try and work out
where the problem lies scientifically i.e. with a hose and a lot of
time. I need to let it dry out again first...

I'll report back my findings!

Calum
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On 8 June, 20:16, Calum wrote:
Thanks for all the answers so far. I'm going to try and work out
where the problem lies scientifically i.e. with a hose and a lot of
time. I need to let it dry out again first...

I'll report back my findings!

Calum


dehumidifier will dry it quickest...

BTW did you see my post in this thread "8th June 15:25"?
Cheers
Jim K
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On Jun 7, 1:08*pm, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 7, 9:29 am, Jim K wrote:

On Jun 7, 8:01 am, stuart noble wrote:


The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. *The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.


I'd replace all that mortar round the pots. The rain could either be
coming straight through it, or there are hairline cracks at the edges..
Either way, it's no big deal to replace it


me too defo. do the other pot as well - if neighbours spose you should
ask first....


Jim K


zooming in on the pics it seems someone has "pointed" the stack and
flaunching around pots with silicone?....

Was that done after the problem 1st manifested or is that a previous
bodge?


You are an idiot.

There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead.

Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the
roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the bottom of
the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into the
fireplace.

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On Jun 8, 9:23 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Jun 7, 1:08 pm, Jim K wrote:



On Jun 7, 9:29 am, Jim K wrote:


On Jun 7, 8:01 am, stuart noble wrote:


The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very
old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a
plastic bag, but that made no difference.


I'd replace all that mortar round the pots. The rain could either be
coming straight through it, or there are hairline cracks at the edges.
Either way, it's no big deal to replace it


me too defo. do the other pot as well - if neighbours spose you should
ask first....


Jim K


zooming in on the pics it seems someone has "pointed" the stack and
flaunching around pots with silicone?....


Was that done after the problem 1st manifested or is that a previous
bodge?


You are an idiot.

There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead.

Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the
roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the bottom of
the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into the
fireplace.


and just how the F do you know that then einstein?

which picture shows what's under the lead?

I think you're the presumptive idiot here.....

Jim K


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On 8 June, 21:37, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 8, 9:23 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:

You are an idiot.


There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead.


Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the
roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the bottom of
the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into the
fireplace.


and just how the F do you know that then einstein?

which picture shows what's under the lead?

I think you're the presumptive idiot here.....


Presumptive? No. Aggressive yes and an idiot at times.
When he posts the pool picture you will see the bloody obvious, though
how you missed the bloody obvious about the chimney not leaking above
the lead I can not hope to guess.

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On Jun 9, 11:58 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On 8 June, 21:37, Jim K wrote:



On Jun 8, 9:23 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:


You are an idiot.


There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead.


Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the
roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the bottom of
the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into the
fireplace.


and just how the F do you know that then einstein?


which picture shows what's under the lead?


I think you're the presumptive idiot here.....


Presumptive? No. Aggressive yes and an idiot at times.
When he posts the pool picture you will see the bloody obvious, though
how you missed the bloody obvious about the chimney not leaking above
the lead I can not hope to guess.


you mean we have to wait and see if your presumptions are correct?

Stiill at least you accept there's no evidence yet of what you think
is wrong, that's a step forward, but still a long way to go tho ;)

Cheers
Jim K
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Jim K wrote:
On Jun 9, 11:58 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On 8 June, 21:37, Jim K wrote:



On Jun 8, 9:23 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
You are an idiot.
There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead.
Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the
roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the bottom of
the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into the
fireplace.
and just how the F do you know that then einstein?
which picture shows what's under the lead?
I think you're the presumptive idiot here.....

Presumptive? No. Aggressive yes and an idiot at times.
When he posts the pool picture you will see the bloody obvious, though
how you missed the bloody obvious about the chimney not leaking above
the lead I can not hope to guess.


you mean we have to wait and see if your presumptions are correct?

Stiill at least you accept there's no evidence yet of what you think
is wrong, that's a step forward, but still a long way to go tho ;)

Cheers
Jim K

The first time I swa that flashing I thought 'thats simply wrong'


Flashing is done the way its done because that way works.

It hasn't been done that way, ergo it probably wont work.


It doesn't take much brain to look at a car with square wheels and say
'that wont drive very well'

But I expect you would want scientific tests to back that up, as well.
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jun 9, 11:58 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On 8 June, 21:37, Jim K wrote:



On Jun 8, 9:23 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
You are an idiot.
There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead.
Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the
roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the bottom of
the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into the
fireplace.
and just how the F do you know that then einstein?
which picture shows what's under the lead?
I think you're the presumptive idiot here.....
Presumptive? No. Aggressive yes and an idiot at times.
When he posts the pool picture you will see the bloody obvious, though
how you missed the bloody obvious about the chimney not leaking above
the lead I can not hope to guess.


you mean we have to wait and see if your presumptions are correct?

Stiill at least you accept there's no evidence yet of what you think
is wrong, that's a step forward, but still a long way to go tho ;)

Cheers
Jim K

The first time I swa that flashing I thought 'thats simply wrong'


Flashing is done the way its done because that way works.

It hasn't been done that way, ergo it probably wont work.


It doesn't take much brain to look at a car with square wheels and say
'that wont drive very well'

But I expect you would want scientific tests to back that up, as well.


What's strange in all this is that the original roofer apparently can't
figure it out.
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stuart noble wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jun 9, 11:58 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On 8 June, 21:37, Jim K wrote:



On Jun 8, 9:23 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
You are an idiot.
There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead.
Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the
roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the
bottom of
the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into
the
fireplace.
and just how the F do you know that then einstein?
which picture shows what's under the lead?
I think you're the presumptive idiot here.....
Presumptive? No. Aggressive yes and an idiot at times.
When he posts the pool picture you will see the bloody obvious, though
how you missed the bloody obvious about the chimney not leaking above
the lead I can not hope to guess.

you mean we have to wait and see if your presumptions are correct?

Stiill at least you accept there's no evidence yet of what you think
is wrong, that's a step forward, but still a long way to go tho ;)

Cheers
Jim K

The first time I swa that flashing I thought 'thats simply wrong'


Flashing is done the way its done because that way works.

It hasn't been done that way, ergo it probably wont work.


It doesn't take much brain to look at a car with square wheels and say
'that wont drive very well'

But I expect you would want scientific tests to back that up, as well.


What's strange in all this is that the original roofer apparently can't
figure it out.


that's probably because he isn't. A roofer.

Hes a purveyor of loft conversions.
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