|
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
Hello all
I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room fireplace one day. The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer can't work out where this is coming from. Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was measuring to see if they got bigger. http://yfrog.com/7bixtj Here are pictures from the outside: http://yfrog.com/4vso3j http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water is being funnelled down quite effectively. Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be? Thanks for your thoughts Calum |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. I'd replace all that mortar round the pots. The rain could either be coming straight through it, or there are hairline cracks at the edges. Either way, it's no big deal to replace it |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
On Jun 7, 8:01 am, stuart noble wrote:
The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. I'd replace all that mortar round the pots. The rain could either be coming straight through it, or there are hairline cracks at the edges. Either way, it's no big deal to replace it me too defo. do the other pot as well - if neighbours spose you should ask first.... Jim K |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
"Jim K" wrote in message ... On Jun 7, 8:01 am, stuart noble wrote: The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. I'd replace all that mortar round the pots. The rain could either be coming straight through it, or there are hairline cracks at the edges. Either way, it's no big deal to replace it me too defo. do the other pot as well - if neighbours spose you should ask first.... Jim K I personally don't like the look of the lead flashing, might be worth checking for water pooling in that area. I built a shed once, it fell down. -- The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
Calum wrote:
Hello all I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room fireplace one day. The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer can't work out where this is coming from. Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was measuring to see if they got bigger. http://yfrog.com/7bixtj Here are pictures from the outside: http://yfrog.com/4vso3j http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water is being funnelled down quite effectively. Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be? Bloody obvious. You have a flat roof and **** all flashing on the stack., Go up and prise up the lead. Bet you its all wet underneath. You need to take roofing felt an carry it up the sides of the stack, to where the flashing starts, and probably mastic it in, then put in new flashing and dress it several inches out along and over the roofing felt. So that driving rain under the flashing has to go a long way and then UP to the flashing top, before it meets the brick. Yu might also, as others have suggested, at the same time repoint the stack and remortar the cowl top. Personally I would scaffold up, or whatever, and demolish the stack top, and start again and build a new top, done properly. I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been badly done. It should be redone in conjunction with the chimney. Thanks for your thoughts Calum |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
On Jun 7, 10:58 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: Calum wrote: Hello all I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room fireplace one day. The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer can't work out where this is coming from. Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was measuring to see if they got bigger. http://yfrog.com/7bixtj Here are pictures from the outside: http://yfrog.com/4vso3j http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water is being funnelled down quite effectively. Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be? Bloody obvious. You have a flat roof and **** all flashing on the stack., Go up and prise up the lead. Bet you its all wet underneath. You need to take roofing felt an carry it up the sides of the stack, to where the flashing starts, and probably mastic it in, then put in new flashing and dress it several inches out along and over the roofing felt. So that driving rain under the flashing has to go a long way and then UP to the flashing top, before it meets the brick. Yu might also, as others have suggested, at the same time repoint the stack and remortar the cowl top. Personally I would scaffold up, or whatever, and demolish the stack top, and start again and build a new top, done properly. I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been badly done. care to expand - for the benefit of the OP? Jim K |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
Bloody obvious.
You have a flat roof and **** all flashing on the stack., Go up and prise up the lead. Bet you its all wet underneath. You need to take roofing felt an carry it up the sides of the stack, to where the flashing starts, and probably mastic it in, then put in new flashing and dress it several inches out along and over the roofing felt. So that driving rain under the flashing has to go a long way and then UP to the flashing top, before it meets the brick. Yu might also, as others have suggested, at the same time repoint the stack and remortar the cowl top. Personally I would scaffold up, or whatever, and demolish the stack top, and start again and build a new top, done properly. I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been badly done. It should be redone in conjunction with the chimney. I'd go along with most of that, tho If it were me and it seems that the water doesn't take that long to appear, I'd prolly chop a bit out of the wall where damp and then try a hose at the bottom sides of the chimney and see if thats where its at and if not the top, might just might show up where its leaking... But as its just been done why isn't the builder sorting this out?.. -- Tony Sayer |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
In article ,
Calum writes: Hello all I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room fireplace one day. The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer can't work out where this is coming from. Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was measuring to see if they got bigger. http://yfrog.com/7bixtj Here are pictures from the outside: http://yfrog.com/4vso3j http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water is being funnelled down quite effectively. Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be? Difficult to tell. I bought a couple of those elephant's foot cowls like the one you have, decided they wouldn't reduce the amount of rainfall going down the chimney, and took them back. Actually, they may make it worse by capturing water from a larger area than the original pot opening, and making it run down the inside of the pot - there's nothing to make the water running down the outside of the pot (unless you siliconed it on). You could repeat the plastic bag test on this flue (but you can't block the airflow permanently like this). I then went a bought a couple of these instead: http://www.brewercowls.co.uk/index.p...tent&Itemid=18 although I fixed them in a different way so the strap isn't visible http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1619546457 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1619546457 In theory, rain water going in the pot shouldn't cause any problems. In practice it might because the internal pointing has been washed away over the years of rain exposure without any heating to dry it. Also, if the flue isn't ventilated at bottom _and_ top, it will fill up with condensation, which will soak through the brickwork in time. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
Jim K wrote:
On Jun 7, 10:58 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Calum wrote: Hello all I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room fireplace one day. The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer can't work out where this is coming from. Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was measuring to see if they got bigger. http://yfrog.com/7bixtj Here are pictures from the outside: http://yfrog.com/4vso3j http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water is being funnelled down quite effectively. Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be? Bloody obvious. You have a flat roof and **** all flashing on the stack., Go up and prise up the lead. Bet you its all wet underneath. You need to take roofing felt an carry it up the sides of the stack, to where the flashing starts, and probably mastic it in, then put in new flashing and dress it several inches out along and over the roofing felt. So that driving rain under the flashing has to go a long way and then UP to the flashing top, before it meets the brick. Yu might also, as others have suggested, at the same time repoint the stack and remortar the cowl top. Personally I would scaffold up, or whatever, and demolish the stack top, and start again and build a new top, done properly. I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been badly done. care to expand - for the benefit of the OP? I thought I had.. I don't like the way the flat roof has been sealed to the chimney. It looks inadequate. Water can run down the sides inside, and appear ..well wherever there is a route. Probably through porous mortar. Jim K |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
On Jun 7, 12:05 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been badly done. care to expand - for the benefit of the OP? I thought I had.. I don't like the way the flat roof has been sealed to the chimney. It looks inadequate. Water can run down the sides inside, and appear ..well wherever there is a route. Probably through porous mortar. your last critique appeared to me to be a general "crap flat roof" broadside so was hoping you could enlighten the OP with specifics taht he could use to bolster his possible arguments with the professhunals who did it - seems all you are picking at is the height of the stack flashing and what may or may not be underneath it... Jim K |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
Jim K wrote:
On Jun 7, 12:05 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote: I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been badly done. care to expand - for the benefit of the OP? I thought I had.. I don't like the way the flat roof has been sealed to the chimney. It looks inadequate. Water can run down the sides inside, and appear ..well wherever there is a route. Probably through porous mortar. your last critique appeared to me to be a general "crap flat roof" broadside so was hoping you could enlighten the OP with specifics taht he could use to bolster his possible arguments with the professhunals who did it - seems all you are picking at is the height of the stack flashing and what may or may not be underneath it... Well all flat roofs are carp, because simple overlapping of waterproof elements will not in general be enough, as water can and does work its way between the layers in any sort of wind. The whole point of a roof slope is to make gravity work for you against wind pressure. Typically what you might do for a stack is to create a flashing, soldered together that extends a LONG way from the chimney base And run the felt up inside it..but then the corners are vulnerable as well. So you probably end up with some sort of 'soaker' system. a lead layer under the felt, the felt and a lead layer over it, and all raised up at the stack, so that water has to run up the felt under the top lead, then down the lower lead and a long long way before it ends up dripping off the edge of the soaker through the ceiling..so put another layer of felt under hat as well that goes all the way to the flat roof edge etc. And seal it all with flexible mastic and pray. It's a series of defenses in the end, all compromised by the fact that gravity on a flat roof is just as likely to make water move towards the places you don't want it, as the places you do. Jim K |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... Calum wrote: Hello all I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room fireplace one day. The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer can't work out where this is coming from. Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was measuring to see if they got bigger. http://yfrog.com/7bixtj Here are pictures from the outside: http://yfrog.com/4vso3j http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water is being funnelled down quite effectively. Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be? Bloody obvious. You have a flat roof and **** all flashing on the stack., There appears to be very little if any overlap. I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been badly done. Looks very patchy to me, in the larger picture it shows up even more just how naff it looks, especially the area around the stack. -- The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
On 7 June, 07:22, Calum wrote:
Hello all I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. *The rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room fireplace one day. The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer can't work out where this is coming from. Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was measuring to see if they got bigger.http://yfrog.com/7bixtj Here are pictures from the outside:http://yfrog.com/4vso3jhttp://yfrog.com/6ds5mj The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. *The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and then take a week or two to dry out. *To me that looks like the water is being funnelled down quite effectively. Could it really be soaking in from the brick? *What else could it be? Thanks for your thoughts Calum In line with the others I can't see quite how the flashing round the stack is working. On the basis that the CH flue isn't used and your 'one day' could well be a long way away, I would take down the whole stack and seal the roof properly I'd leave a ventilator out of the flue to allow air flow and mark where it is. If 'one day' does arrive some time then put in a stainless steel liner and flue outlet, again properly sealed in. Rob |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
On Jun 7, 9:29 am, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 7, 8:01 am, stuart noble wrote: The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. I'd replace all that mortar round the pots. The rain could either be coming straight through it, or there are hairline cracks at the edges. Either way, it's no big deal to replace it me too defo. do the other pot as well - if neighbours spose you should ask first.... Jim K zooming in on the pics it seems someone has "pointed" the stack and flaunching around pots with silicone?.... Was that done after the problem 1st manifested or is that a previous bodge? Jim K |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
On 7 June, 07:22, Calum wrote:
Hello all I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. *The rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room fireplace one day. The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer can't work out where this is coming from. Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was measuring to see if they got bigger.http://yfrog.com/7bixtj Here are pictures from the outside:http://yfrog.com/4vso3jhttp://yfrog.com/6ds5mj The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. *The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and then take a week or two to dry out. *To me that looks like the water is being funnelled down quite effectively. Could it really be soaking in from the brick? *What else could it be? TBH flashing looks pretty normal, read lead/zinc for copper here http://www.copper.org/applications/a...s/chimney.html Would normally think flashing failure giving damp signs higher up wall or on ceiling as water runs down outside of stalk internally. Brick has lready suffered water damage, the damaged faces look as if damp has penetrated behind then frozen and blown the faces off. Stack looks like its beginning to split as well, silicone sealant is great but structurally gluing split chimney stack back together from outside is probably pushing it. Demolish and make good seems best option if don`t need vents and can get [planners to agree, take down and put back together again properely if they don`t. Looks a bit far gone for this sort of treatment to work, water proofness on lot of bricks has gone. http://www.rkiroof.com/id74.html I ferking hate roofs, its all down to opinion and any of them, in any combination could be right. Cheers Adam Thanks for your thoughts Calum |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
Adam Aglionby wrote:
On 7 June, 07:22, Calum wrote: Hello all I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room fireplace one day. The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer can't work out where this is coming from. Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was measuring to see if they got bigger.http://yfrog.com/7bixtj Here are pictures from the outside:http://yfrog.com/4vso3jhttp://yfrog.com/6ds5mj The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water is being funnelled down quite effectively. Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be? TBH flashing looks pretty normal, read lead/zinc for copper here http://www.copper.org/applications/a...s/chimney.html Would normally think flashing failure giving damp signs higher up wall or on ceiling as water runs down outside of stalk internally. NOT if iuts been RENDERED internally. It will then migrate behind the almost waterproof rendering via the mortar - particularly lime or weak mortar - till the rendering stops. Then the plaster will suck like crazy. Brick has lready suffered water damage, the damaged faces look as if damp has penetrated behind then frozen and blown the faces off. Stack looks like its beginning to split as well, silicone sealant is great but structurally gluing split chimney stack back together from outside is probably pushing it. Indeed. Demolish and make good seems best option if don`t need vents and can get [planners to agree, take down and put back together again properely if they don`t. Well we agree on the ideal solutions, anyway. Looks a bit far gone for this sort of treatment to work, water proofness on lot of bricks has gone. http://www.rkiroof.com/id74.html I ferking hate roofs, its all down to opinion and any of them, in any combination could be right. nah. Rooves is great until people wot don't unnerstand em start ****in wiv em. I had a leak..on the new tiles..builders looked, and said '******* Dave didn't do soakers' and he was right., a little slip of lead=no more leaks. There are right ways, and ways that simpoly dont work. It needs taking to bits and doing right. Cheers Adam Thanks for your thoughts Calum |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been badly done. Yes, it's part of the conversion. They've been back once already to look at it. They'll be back again soon... |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
But as its just been done why isn't the builder sorting this out?..
They are coming back. At one point they were talking about dry-lining inside - definitely not doing that. They appear to have come to the end of their ideas tho, which is why I thought I'd post and see if anyone had any thoughts - which they do! All interesting comments... |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
zooming in on the pics it seems someone has "pointed" the stack and flaunching around pots with silicone?.... Was that done after the problem 1st manifested or is that a previous bodge? I see what you're saying. They have been back once to try and resolve, but I'm not sure exactly what they did. I think I need to get up there and take a look myself as camera pics (camera stuck to broom handle poked out of windows!) aren't ideal. |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
Calum wrote:
zooming in on the pics it seems someone has "pointed" the stack and flaunching around pots with silicone?.... Was that done after the problem 1st manifested or is that a previous bodge? I see what you're saying. They have been back once to try and resolve, but I'm not sure exactly what they did. I think I need to get up there and take a look myself as camera pics (camera stuck to broom handle poked out of windows!) aren't ideal. Lift the flashing and take pictures of what's underneath. If the roofing felt is carried up a bit that's a help, and there ought to be gobs of tar or mastic there as well. Nit bloody silicone either. If the roofing felt finishes at the chimney, as does that crap excuse for flashing, its a total disaster. They MUST overlap. |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Bloody obvious. You have a flat roof and **** all flashing on the stack., Go up and prise up the lead. Bet you its all wet underneath. You need to take roofing felt an carry it up the sides of the stack, to where the flashing starts, and probably mastic it in, then put in new flashing and dress it several inches out along and over the roofing felt. So that driving rain under the flashing has to go a long way and then UP to the flashing top, before it meets the brick. Who's to say the felt doesn't already go up behind the lead? - my bet is that it does, but this isn't the problem. Yu might also, as others have suggested, at the same time repoint the stack and remortar the cowl top. Personally I would scaffold up, or whatever, and demolish the stack top, and start again and build a new top, done properly. I take it the flat roof is part of the new conversion? If so its been badly done. It should be redone in conjunction with the chimney. IME you can't seal a chimney with lead on a flat roof - where they've took the felt up the chimney sides and then flashed over it, they can't seal the corners and this is where it's getting in, that is to say, the felt is split at each corner and doesn't go 'around' the corner in one piece, and as you say, the lead is just covering brickwork at this point. I wouldn't flash a chimney like this with lead onto a flat roof - it needs something completely different, torch-on would probably be best but not very permanent -- Phil L RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008 |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
#1 Examine how the roofing felt turns up under the lead, because as
posted I believe you may have a problem there. #2 Repoint the chimney, SBR in the mortar where necessary. Absolutely do not dry-line or the moisture behind will produce a string of problems with floorboards, joists, track through any party wall nearby - trying to hide the problem is a recipe for a total disaster that should be obvious and worries me that they should suggest it. Makes me want to examine that roof more closely. BTW, you can get wireless and wired cameras quite cheaply - it could be useful to stick one in an appropriate position. From the suggest of *wet plaster* in moderate rain I really do wonder about that flat roof re funneling water. |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
Calum wrote:
Hello all I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room fireplace one day. The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer can't work out where this is coming from. Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was measuring to see if they got bigger. http://yfrog.com/7bixtj Here are pictures from the outside: http://yfrog.com/4vso3j http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water is being funnelled down quite effectively. Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be? Thanks for your thoughts Calum stick the camera up there an hour after it's rained - are there still puddles? Better tie a ladder up there and go up in various weathers, pour buckets of water on it etc. Maybe squeeze some thickish plastic under the flat roof around the chimney so that water flows away from the chimney. [g] |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
On 08/06/10 13:24, george [dicegeorge] wrote:
Better tie a ladder up there and go up in various weathers, pour buckets of water on it etc. I was about to suggest something similar: wait for a dry day and take a hose up there. Working from the least likely to the most likely culprit areas, pour loads of water from an un-nozzeled hose with an observer inside to look for any evidence. If that doesn't yield anything (it might not) - OP could be looking at a combination of wind and rain blowing the water back under something, in which case repeat the excercise with a spray gun on the hose. -- Tim Watts Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament. |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
Calum wrote:
Hello all I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room fireplace one day. The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer can't work out where this is coming from. Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was measuring to see if they got bigger. http://yfrog.com/7bixtj Here are pictures from the outside: http://yfrog.com/4vso3j http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water is being funnelled down quite effectively. Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be? Thanks for your thoughts Calum upon closer inspection of your pictures, iut seems to me that the water isn't coming down the inside of the chimney but down the outside. Am I correct in assuming the walls have been dot&dabbed? - these wet patches look like DL adhesive to me, and if they are, then the water is coming down the face of the brickwork that they are stuck to (which it must have been doing BEFORE it was covered up! *) and the water is going through the adhesive and into the plasterboard. *Which begs the question, why did anyone cover up an obviously wet wall? -- Phil L RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008 |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
Phil L wrote:
Calum wrote: Hello all I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room fireplace one day. The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer can't work out where this is coming from. Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was measuring to see if they got bigger. http://yfrog.com/7bixtj Here are pictures from the outside: http://yfrog.com/4vso3j http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water is being funnelled down quite effectively. Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be? Thanks for your thoughts Calum upon closer inspection of your pictures, iut seems to me that the water isn't coming down the inside of the chimney but down the outside. Am I correct in assuming the walls have been dot&dabbed? - these wet patches look like DL adhesive to me, and if they are, then the water is coming down the face of the brickwork that they are stuck to (which it must have been doing BEFORE it was covered up! *) and the water is going through the adhesive and into the plasterboard. *Which begs the question, why did anyone cover up an obviously wet wall? AHA! that explains the round patches. They are the dabs! And coming down the outside is exactly what the balance of us here reckon: The flashing is crap. But I don't reckon given the dry spring, the wall would have been wet. Not till the latest downpours. |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
AHA! that explains the round patches. They are the dabs! And coming down the outside is exactly what the balance of us here reckon: The flashing is crap. But I don't reckon given the dry spring, the wall would have been wet. Not till the latest downpours. Yep, without doubt the flashing's are ****e - on one side it doesn't even reach the roof - it stops about an inch short -- Phil L RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008 |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
On Jun 8, 2:18 pm, "Phil L" wrote:
Calum wrote: Hello all I've just had a loft conversion completed on a victorian semi. The rear of the house is one large dormer with a (nearly) flat roof, and we've left the chimney stack in place as we might use the dining room fireplace one day. The problem we have is that rain is getting in somewhere and coming through the chimney breast plasterin the new loft room, but the roofer can't work out where this is coming from. Here is a picture of the plaster with a roll of masking tape for scale. There are pencil lines around the damp circles as I was measuring to see if they got bigger. http://yfrog.com/7bixtj Here are pictures from the outside: http://yfrog.com/4vso3j http://yfrog.com/6ds5mj The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. If it rains moderately for an hour, the patches appear/get worse and then take a week or two to dry out. To me that looks like the water is being funnelled down quite effectively. Could it really be soaking in from the brick? What else could it be? Thanks for your thoughts Calum upon closer inspection of your pictures, iut seems to me that the water isn't coming down the inside of the chimney but down the outside. Am I correct in assuming the walls have been dot&dabbed? - these wet patches look like DL adhesive to me, and if they are, then the water is coming down the face of the brickwork that they are stuck to (which it must have been doing BEFORE it was covered up! *) and the water is going through the adhesive and into the plasterboard. *Which begs the question, why did anyone cover up an obviously wet wall? mmm if there's so much water coming down the outer surface of the chimney breast to soak thru pb dabs placed here and there - shurely there'd be some other evidence of *lots* of water getting in - in the room below the loft conversion perchance? OP - can you orientate us and tell us (somehow) where the c breast is relative to the stack in the pics? i.e. specifically what part of the chimney stack is directly above the damp area? are the damp spots in pic all there are in loft? or are there more? any signs in lower rooms (yet)?? Jim K |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
upon closer inspection of your pictures, iut seems to me that the water
isn't coming down the inside of the chimney but down the outside. Am I correct in assuming the walls have been dot&dabbed? - these wet patches look like DL adhesive to me, and if they are, then the water is coming down the face of the brickwork that they are stuck to (which it must have been doing BEFORE it was covered up! *) and the water is going through the adhesive and into the plasterboard. *Which begs the question, why did anyone cover up an obviously wet wall? Yes, the walls have been dot & dabbed. The wall may not have looked wet before. Work began in the winter when we had lots of snow, and ice and things were actually quite dry. |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
Calum wrote:
Yes, the walls have been dot & dabbed. The wall may not have looked wet before. Work began in the winter when we had lots of snow, and ice and things were actually quite dry. The flashing's failed, it needs replacing and *not* patching up. Personally, if it were mine, I would want something other than lead as I don't think it's suitable in this application. -- Phil L RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008 |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
Phil L wrote:
Calum wrote: Yes, the walls have been dot & dabbed. The wall may not have looked wet before. Work began in the winter when we had lots of snow, and ice and things were actually quite dry. The flashing's failed, it needs replacing and *not* patching up. Personally, if it were mine, I would want something other than lead as I don't think it's suitable in this application. Oh its suitable, but its not a complete answer. |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
Thanks for all the answers so far. I'm going to try and work out
where the problem lies scientifically i.e. with a hose and a lot of time. I need to let it dry out again first... I'll report back my findings! Calum |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
On 8 June, 20:16, Calum wrote:
Thanks for all the answers so far. I'm going to try and work out where the problem lies scientifically i.e. with a hose and a lot of time. I need to let it dry out again first... I'll report back my findings! Calum dehumidifier will dry it quickest... BTW did you see my post in this thread "8th June 15:25"? Cheers Jim K |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
On Jun 7, 1:08*pm, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 7, 9:29 am, Jim K wrote: On Jun 7, 8:01 am, stuart noble wrote: The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. *The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. I'd replace all that mortar round the pots. The rain could either be coming straight through it, or there are hairline cracks at the edges.. Either way, it's no big deal to replace it me too defo. do the other pot as well - if neighbours spose you should ask first.... Jim K zooming in on the pics it seems someone has "pointed" the stack and flaunching around pots with silicone?.... Was that done after the problem 1st manifested or is that a previous bodge? You are an idiot. There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead. Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the bottom of the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into the fireplace. |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
On Jun 8, 9:23 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Jun 7, 1:08 pm, Jim K wrote: On Jun 7, 9:29 am, Jim K wrote: On Jun 7, 8:01 am, stuart noble wrote: The roofer has re-pointed and patched up the mortar slope to the (very old and unused) central heating cowel. The cowel was covered in a plastic bag, but that made no difference. I'd replace all that mortar round the pots. The rain could either be coming straight through it, or there are hairline cracks at the edges. Either way, it's no big deal to replace it me too defo. do the other pot as well - if neighbours spose you should ask first.... Jim K zooming in on the pics it seems someone has "pointed" the stack and flaunching around pots with silicone?.... Was that done after the problem 1st manifested or is that a previous bodge? You are an idiot. There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead. Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the bottom of the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into the fireplace. and just how the F do you know that then einstein? which picture shows what's under the lead? I think you're the presumptive idiot here..... Jim K |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
On 8 June, 21:37, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 8, 9:23 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote: You are an idiot. There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead. Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the bottom of the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into the fireplace. and just how the F do you know that then einstein? which picture shows what's under the lead? I think you're the presumptive idiot here..... Presumptive? No. Aggressive yes and an idiot at times. When he posts the pool picture you will see the bloody obvious, though how you missed the bloody obvious about the chimney not leaking above the lead I can not hope to guess. |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
On Jun 9, 11:58 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On 8 June, 21:37, Jim K wrote: On Jun 8, 9:23 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote: You are an idiot. There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead. Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the bottom of the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into the fireplace. and just how the F do you know that then einstein? which picture shows what's under the lead? I think you're the presumptive idiot here..... Presumptive? No. Aggressive yes and an idiot at times. When he posts the pool picture you will see the bloody obvious, though how you missed the bloody obvious about the chimney not leaking above the lead I can not hope to guess. you mean we have to wait and see if your presumptions are correct? Stiill at least you accept there's no evidence yet of what you think is wrong, that's a step forward, but still a long way to go tho ;) Cheers Jim K |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
Jim K wrote:
On Jun 9, 11:58 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote: On 8 June, 21:37, Jim K wrote: On Jun 8, 9:23 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote: You are an idiot. There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead. Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the bottom of the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into the fireplace. and just how the F do you know that then einstein? which picture shows what's under the lead? I think you're the presumptive idiot here..... Presumptive? No. Aggressive yes and an idiot at times. When he posts the pool picture you will see the bloody obvious, though how you missed the bloody obvious about the chimney not leaking above the lead I can not hope to guess. you mean we have to wait and see if your presumptions are correct? Stiill at least you accept there's no evidence yet of what you think is wrong, that's a step forward, but still a long way to go tho ;) Cheers Jim K The first time I swa that flashing I thought 'thats simply wrong' Flashing is done the way its done because that way works. It hasn't been done that way, ergo it probably wont work. It doesn't take much brain to look at a car with square wheels and say 'that wont drive very well' But I expect you would want scientific tests to back that up, as well. |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Jim K wrote: On Jun 9, 11:58 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote: On 8 June, 21:37, Jim K wrote: On Jun 8, 9:23 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote: You are an idiot. There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead. Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the bottom of the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into the fireplace. and just how the F do you know that then einstein? which picture shows what's under the lead? I think you're the presumptive idiot here..... Presumptive? No. Aggressive yes and an idiot at times. When he posts the pool picture you will see the bloody obvious, though how you missed the bloody obvious about the chimney not leaking above the lead I can not hope to guess. you mean we have to wait and see if your presumptions are correct? Stiill at least you accept there's no evidence yet of what you think is wrong, that's a step forward, but still a long way to go tho ;) Cheers Jim K The first time I swa that flashing I thought 'thats simply wrong' Flashing is done the way its done because that way works. It hasn't been done that way, ergo it probably wont work. It doesn't take much brain to look at a car with square wheels and say 'that wont drive very well' But I expect you would want scientific tests to back that up, as well. What's strange in all this is that the original roofer apparently can't figure it out. |
Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)
stuart noble wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Jim K wrote: On Jun 9, 11:58 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote: On 8 June, 21:37, Jim K wrote: On Jun 8, 9:23 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote: You are an idiot. There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead. Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the bottom of the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into the fireplace. and just how the F do you know that then einstein? which picture shows what's under the lead? I think you're the presumptive idiot here..... Presumptive? No. Aggressive yes and an idiot at times. When he posts the pool picture you will see the bloody obvious, though how you missed the bloody obvious about the chimney not leaking above the lead I can not hope to guess. you mean we have to wait and see if your presumptions are correct? Stiill at least you accept there's no evidence yet of what you think is wrong, that's a step forward, but still a long way to go tho ;) Cheers Jim K The first time I swa that flashing I thought 'thats simply wrong' Flashing is done the way its done because that way works. It hasn't been done that way, ergo it probably wont work. It doesn't take much brain to look at a car with square wheels and say 'that wont drive very well' But I expect you would want scientific tests to back that up, as well. What's strange in all this is that the original roofer apparently can't figure it out. that's probably because he isn't. A roofer. Hes a purveyor of loft conversions. |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:31 PM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter