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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

On Jun 10, 9:19 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jun 9, 11:58 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On 8 June, 21:37, Jim K wrote:


On Jun 8, 9:23 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
You are an idiot.
There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead.
Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the
roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the bottom of
the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into the
fireplace.
and just how the F do you know that then einstein?
which picture shows what's under the lead?
I think you're the presumptive idiot here.....
Presumptive? No. Aggressive yes and an idiot at times.
When he posts the pool picture you will see the bloody obvious, though
how you missed the bloody obvious about the chimney not leaking above
the lead I can not hope to guess.


you mean we have to wait and see if your presumptions are correct?


Stiill at least you accept there's no evidence yet of what you think
is wrong, that's a step forward, but still a long way to go tho ;)


Cheers
Jim K


The first time I swa that flashing I thought 'thats simply wrong'

Flashing is done the way its done because that way works.

It hasn't been done that way, ergo it probably wont work.

It doesn't take much brain to look at a car with square wheels and say
'that wont drive very well'

But I expect you would want scientific tests to back that up, as well.


sigh

from the evidence provided (to all) the flashing is at least 2 brick
courses high - say minumum 4inch?

How should the flashing appear in the photographs to be "correct" in
your humble opinion?

FACT we don't know what's under the flashing. Until it's inspected by
someone we never will - simple irrefutable fact no?

The usual "doom & gloom", "pull it down", "start again", "you've been
ripped off" theories are being vigorously promoted (by the usual
suspects) solely on the basis of their imaginations and alleged
expertise yet they *do not know* what is actually going on becasue
*they have not seen*.

All you are doing is betting.

Cheers
Jim K

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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

On 10 June, 10:36, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 10, 9:19 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:



Jim K wrote:
On Jun 9, 11:58 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On 8 June, 21:37, Jim K wrote:


On Jun 8, 9:23 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
You are an idiot.
There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead.
Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the
roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the bottom of
the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into the
fireplace.
and just how the F do you know that then einstein?
which picture shows what's under the lead?
I think you're the presumptive idiot here.....
Presumptive? No. Aggressive yes and an idiot at times.
When he posts the pool picture you will see the bloody obvious, though
how you missed the bloody obvious about the chimney not leaking above
the lead I can not hope to guess.


you mean we have to wait and see if your presumptions are correct?


Stiill at least you accept there's no evidence yet of what you think
is wrong, that's a step forward, but still a long way to go tho ;)


Cheers
Jim K


The first time I swa that flashing I thought 'thats simply wrong'


Flashing is done the way its done because that way works.


It hasn't been done that way, ergo it probably wont work.


It doesn't take much brain to look at a car with square wheels and say
'that wont drive very well'


But I expect you would want scientific tests to back that up, as well.


sigh

from the evidence provided (to all) the flashing is at least 2 brick
courses high - say minumum 4inch?

How should the flashing appear in the photographs to be "correct" in
your humble opinion?

FACT we don't know what's under the flashing. Until it's inspected by
someone we never will - simple irrefutable fact no?

The usual "doom & gloom", "pull it down", "start again", "you've been
ripped off" theories are being vigorously promoted (by the usual
suspects) solely on the basis of their imaginations and alleged
expertise yet they *do not know* what is actually going on becasue
*they have not seen*.

All you are doing is betting.

Cheers
Jim K


The flashing on a closer look , dosen`t look that clever, the open
corners aint going to help.

The silicone sealant on the chimney is simply wrong, combined with at
least 3 separate obvious goes at pointing repairs, different colours
of mortar, looks like pointing has given previous people,greivous
repair despair.

Damp ingress can go from being a minor inconvenience to a major repair
scarily quickly, had a 200quid blocked gutter turn into 12grand major
roof repair beacuse of wet rot, only took 2 years of everyone thinking
somone else was getting it fixed.

If you want a betting game , try damp in ground floor, is it rising
damp, interior condensation, water run off from local park, broken
Scottish Water supply pipe or alien ectoplasm, alien ectoplasm would
be Scottish Water`s preferred explanantion, throw a double six for the
correct answer, including if your a surveyor....

Cheers
Adam


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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

Jim K wrote:
On Jun 10, 9:19 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jun 9, 11:58 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On 8 June, 21:37, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 8, 9:23 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
You are an idiot.
There is nothing going down the chimney from above the lead.
Look under the lead. It isn't doing anything. Get a picture of the
roof when it is raining. It will be a puddle deeper than the bottom of
the lead. So what he has there is a big shallow pool draining into the
fireplace.
and just how the F do you know that then einstein?
which picture shows what's under the lead?
I think you're the presumptive idiot here.....
Presumptive? No. Aggressive yes and an idiot at times.
When he posts the pool picture you will see the bloody obvious, though
how you missed the bloody obvious about the chimney not leaking above
the lead I can not hope to guess.
you mean we have to wait and see if your presumptions are correct?
Stiill at least you accept there's no evidence yet of what you think
is wrong, that's a step forward, but still a long way to go tho ;)
Cheers
Jim K

The first time I swa that flashing I thought 'thats simply wrong'

Flashing is done the way its done because that way works.

It hasn't been done that way, ergo it probably wont work.

It doesn't take much brain to look at a car with square wheels and say
'that wont drive very well'

But I expect you would want scientific tests to back that up, as well.


sigh

from the evidence provided (to all) the flashing is at least 2 brick
courses high - say minumum 4inch?


so ****ing what?

Its not how HIGH it is, its where it finishes.

It doesn't meet the flat roof at all!

It looks like flashing that has been partially removed from the old
stack when the roof was flattened.



How should the flashing appear in the photographs to be "correct" in
your humble opinion?


It should spread out to cover the flat roof, not be gobbed with silicone
or whatever.


FACT we don't know what's under the flashing. Until it's inspected by
someone we never will - simple irrefutable fact no?


The point is, there is no flashing.

That does anything.


The usual "doom & gloom", "pull it down", "start again", "you've been
ripped off" theories are being vigorously promoted (by the usual
suspects) solely on the basis of their imaginations and alleged
expertise yet they *do not know* what is actually going on becasue
*they have not seen*.


I dont need to see what amounts to band of lead round a stack base
poking through a flat roof to know that isn't flashing. It might have
been once., but it aint now.


All you are doing is betting.


No, that's your game. I've dealt with plenty of leaks, and I know how
the game works.



Cheers
Jim K

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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

On Jun 10, 11:12 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

It should spread out to cover the flat roof, not be gobbed with silicone
or whatever.


what purpose would having lead flattened out ontop of the felt round
the stack add?

FACT we don't know what's under the flashing. Until it's inspected by
someone we never will - simple irrefutable fact no?


The point is, there is no flashing.

That does anything.

The usual "doom & gloom", "pull it down", "start again", "you've been
ripped off" theories are being vigorously promoted (by the usual
suspects) solely on the basis of their imaginations and alleged
expertise yet they *do not know* what is actually going on becasue
*they have not seen*.


I dont need to see what amounts to band of lead round a stack base
poking through a flat roof to know that isn't flashing. It might have
been once., but it aint now.


so all that's wrong you reckon is the lead needs to be wider and lap
onto the felt and not gobbed up with silicone anywhere??!!

All you are doing is betting.


No, that's your game. I've dealt with plenty of leaks, and I know how
the game works.


we'll see (I hope :))

do you do clairvoyance parties too?

Cheers
Jim K
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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

On Jun 7, 12:49*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The whole point of a roof slope is to make gravity work for you against
wind pressure.


I must congratulate you for your patience in dealing with such an
utter idiot. And take any kudos back from you for not having realised
it was a lost cause.

He will never grasp that when you have an obstacle like a chimney you
have to set the shed to ground the water around the outside.

All he can see is a Band Aid of lead. He will never be able to grasp
more than that.



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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

I've taken a bunch more pictures, and can now see that there is
definitely lots of silicone in the gaps. I assume the silicone
sealant is specified for external use. Does it have a long life?

The most interesting pic is http://yfrog.com/j3sybj which shows a hole
with a *bit* of silicon in it.

http://yfrog.com/afn6fj
http://yfrog.com/16fj2j
http://yfrog.com/9fn4gj
http://yfrog.com/msqhqj
http://yfrog.com/9hsi7j
http://yfrog.com/507oyj
http://yfrog.com/jkj7pj
http://yfrog.com/6ra1uj
http://yfrog.com/bfjojj
http://yfrog.com/hq1xhj

I've started running water on bits of the roof/chimney to find out
what is leaking, working my way up from the bottom. Nothing has come
through yet, but I do see another problem - see this video...

http://yfrog.com/modscn3310z

I'm going to give the company a ring tomorrow and give them a piece of
my mind.

Calum

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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

On Jun 13, 8:34 pm, Calum wrote:
I've taken a bunch more pictures, and can now see that there is
definitely lots of silicone in the gaps. I assume the silicone
sealant is specified for external use. Does it have a long life?


seriously silicone in that appication is a bodge, maybe they were
"testing a theory" but silicone is *not* the longterm answer to that
stack's issues...

I'm going to give the company a ring tomorrow and give them a piece of
my mind.


keep it cool and logical, common sensical, decide what you want them
to do before you ring them, that may well be "just come and look and
discuss how you are going to put it right"

was repairing the flaky stack in the spec/quote for the job? if not
then ideally they should have told you how sh1t it was and asked you
what you wanted doing whilst they are up there, but they could try and
argue it wasn't part of of the job quoted and charge you extra to fix.

have you fully paid yet? just puts you in astronger position to get
satisfaction before they poss. contemplate "doing one" and leaving you
with the problem - and seeing if you can be arsed to chase them for
redress....

keep us posted

Cheers
Jim K
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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

In article
s.com, Calum scribeth thus
I've taken a bunch more pictures, and can now see that there is
definitely lots of silicone in the gaps. I assume the silicone
sealant is specified for external use. Does it have a long life?


Well I can't say I've ever seen silicone sealant as good as what it can
be to point bricks up;!..


The most interesting pic is http://yfrog.com/j3sybj which shows a hole
with a *bit* of silicon in it.

http://yfrog.com/afn6fj
http://yfrog.com/16fj2j
http://yfrog.com/9fn4gj
http://yfrog.com/msqhqj
http://yfrog.com/9hsi7j
http://yfrog.com/507oyj
http://yfrog.com/jkj7pj
http://yfrog.com/6ra1uj
http://yfrog.com/bfjojj
http://yfrog.com/hq1xhj

I've started running water on bits of the roof/chimney to find out
what is leaking, working my way up from the bottom. Nothing has come
through yet, but I do see another problem - see this video...

http://yfrog.com/modscn3310z

I'm going to give the company a ring tomorrow and give them a piece of
my mind.

Calum


What a bodge job this looks. I'd be inclined to put a complaint in
writing and recorded delivery and get an independent inspection.

Do you really want this lot back again?..
--
Tony Sayer

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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

On 13 June, 20:55, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 13, 8:34 pm, Calum wrote:


I'm going to give the company a ring tomorrow and give them a piece of
my mind.


keep it cool and logical, common sensical, decide what you want them
to do before you ring them, that may well be "just come and look and
discuss how you are going to put it right"

was repairing the flaky stack in the spec/quote for the job? if not
then ideally they should have told you how sh1t it was and asked you
what you wanted doing whilst they are up there, but they could try and
argue it wasn't part of of the job quoted and charge you extra to fix.

have you fully paid yet? just puts you in astronger position to get
satisfaction before they poss. contemplate "doing one" and leaving you
with the problem - and seeing if you can be arsed to chase them for
redress....

Thanks Jim. Luckily I'm not too hot headed. But I will convey my
annoyance that the company's site manager said he inspected himself,
and he could see nowhere that the water might get in. He just didn't
look around the other side. So far I've got on with the company very
well, but they are now trying my patience.

The quote was for providing the loft conversion at fixed price i.e.
they explicitly took the risk of unforseen circumstances like
additional structural work etc. Luckily we haven't paid fully yet.
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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

On Jun 13, 9:52*pm, tony sayer wrote:
What a bodge job this looks. I'd be inclined to put a complaint *in
writing and recorded delivery and get an independent inspection.

Do you really want this lot back again?..

I strongly agree. I would tell them to hold whilst you get an
independent surveyor to list all the defects and the remedial work/
cost.

What is going on with those ridge tiles at the edge of the flat roof?
I've never seen anything like that before. From your pictures I can't
quite work out where the chimney is in relation to that sloping
section that leaks under the soffit. If you can do without the chimney
it might be worth removing it below tiles and tiling over that
section. It would be another area to eliminate leaks. To be honest if
it were my roof I'd want the whole lot stripping off and redoing
properly -otherwise it will always be leaking somewhere due to the
numerous bodges.

Dave.


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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

On Jun 13, 11:25 pm, Dave Starling wrote:
On Jun 13, 9:52 pm, tony sayer wrote: What a bodge job this looks. I'd be inclined to put a complaint in
writing and recorded delivery and get an independent inspection.


Do you really want this lot back again?..


I strongly agree. I would tell them to hold whilst you get an
independent surveyor to list all the defects and the remedial work/
cost.


despite my usual distrust of profeshunals (esp surveyors) I think
dave's surveyor suggestion could be well "on the money" on this one -
too many things going on up there for comfort...

Cheers
Jim K
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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

On Jun 14, 9:08*am, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 13, 11:25 pm, Dave Starling wrote:

On Jun 13, 9:52 pm, tony sayer wrote: What a bodge job this looks. I'd be inclined to put a complaint *in
writing and recorded delivery and get an independent inspection.


Do you really want this lot back again?..


I strongly agree. I would tell them to hold whilst you get an
independent surveyor to list all the defects and the remedial work/
cost.


despite my usual distrust of profeshunals (esp surveyors) I think
dave's surveyor suggestion could be well "on the money" on this one -
too many things going on up there for comfort...


Why don't we all send two halfpennies in and pay for
Jim K

to turn up and see what everyone else can see, then report back?

I'd love to get him on a roof.
But not for long.



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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

On Jun 14, 9:07 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Jun 14, 9:08 am, Jim K wrote:

On Jun 13, 11:25 pm, Dave Starling wrote:


On Jun 13, 9:52 pm, tony sayer wrote: What a bodge job this looks. I'd be inclined to put a complaint in
writing and recorded delivery and get an independent inspection.


Do you really want this lot back again?..


I strongly agree. I would tell them to hold whilst you get an
independent surveyor to list all the defects and the remedial work/
cost.


despite my usual distrust of profeshunals (esp surveyors) I think
dave's surveyor suggestion could be well "on the money" on this one -
too many things going on up there for comfort...


Why don't we all send two halfpennies in and pay for Jim K

to turn up and see what everyone else can see, then report back?

I'd love to get him on a roof.
But not for long.


you forgot your pills again?
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Default Leaking chimney, but where is the water getting in? (see pics)

On 13 June, 22:19, Calum wrote:
On 13 June, 20:55, Jim K wrote:



On Jun 13, 8:34 pm, Calum wrote:
I'm going to give the company a ring tomorrow and give them a piece of
my mind.


keep it cool and logical, common sensical, decide what you want them
to do before you ring them, that may well be "just come and look and
discuss how you are going to put it right"


was repairing the flaky stack in the spec/quote for the job? if not
then ideally they should have told you how sh1t it was and asked you
what you wanted doing whilst they are up there, but they could try and
argue it wasn't part of of the job quoted and charge you extra to fix.


have you fully paid yet? just puts you in astronger position to get
satisfaction before they poss. contemplate "doing one" and leaving you
with the problem - and seeing if you can be arsed to chase them for
redress....


Thanks Jim. *Luckily I'm not too hot headed. *But I will convey my
annoyance that the company's site manager said he inspected himself,
and he could see nowhere that the water might get in. *He just didn't
look around the other side.


Perhaps email him a link to your video :-0

*So far I've got on with the company very
well, but they are now trying my patience.


Suggestion of tanking a loft room was a bit of an alarm bell to be
sure to be sure...


The quote was for providing the loft conversion at fixed price i.e.
they explicitly took the risk of unforseen circumstances like
additional structural work etc. *Luckily we haven't paid fully yet.


Beware of getting into argument about state of chimney, which may be
contributory but reasonably not part of contract, not reasonable to
start pratting about with silicone on pointing though, makes it harder
to do propery after.
Lead work from any angle is clearly indequate, site manager didn`t
need to look closely, was it him who suggested the tanking?

Cheers
Adam


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