[Tim Watts]

Hi,

We approach the time when we will be ordering our kitchen units. Found a
good online site with a showroom and the carcasses seem very solid, so
that's settled.

Now, the ultimate question... What worktop material?

OK - there will be a million different answers, but here goes

Stone (slate, granite etc) - too expensive for us - ruled out.

Stone/resin engineered laminate over MDF - still fairly pricey but not
as bad as stone. Not sure how tough this is.

Regular formica/chip - always has problems with the formica (whatever)
never being very robust. Either water gets in and lifts it or it stains
(OK, I cook curries) or it doesn't like the odd bit of heat...

Wood. I like this, in that it *could* be long lasting and can be
repaired if it gets abuse. I fancy my chances of fitting it myself too.
But some woods seem to be a sod for blackening if any water gets left
(have kids, it is going to happen, often)...

I'm veering towards wood if I can find a type and/or surface treatment
that is reasonably forgiving - SMWBO will need convincing, she likes
stone, although showing here the budget spreadsheet recently may have
cured that!

I suppose there might also be the option of glass over wood - not sure
if this is a done thing or how difficult it is to do, and whether there
are cons...

Random opinions sought - especially if it's a product recommendation :_)

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

[js.b1]

Laminate is the toughest. Router the joints & waterproof glue. Use
something to protect the worktop re stains, or perhaps Dupont offer
something "repellant".

Wood is higher maintenance, and needs religuous use of cutting boards,
hot stands etc. Laminate is more forgiving of day to day without
maintenance apart from eventual replacement. Wood is good for
occasional use worktops, kitchen or breakfast area tables, built-in
tables and so on - if maintenance is likely to be less. Either that or
Osmo is your friend re hard wearing oil, wax-oil or wax transparent or
opaque finishes (you can buy samples as getting it right can be fun).

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Mon, 24 May 2010 20:51:05 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Regular formica/chip - always has problems with the formica
(whatever)
never being very robust. Either water gets in and lifts it or it
stains
(OK, I cook curries) or it doesn't like the odd bit of heat...

Must admit to never having had a problem with this - pick a decent one
and it seems robust enough.

Same here. I did singe a laminate worktop once but that was taking a
pan that had boiled dry off the hob and straight onto the surface.

Not had any problem with stains either

Do you cook curries? Tumeric can stain *anything*. B-) But even
that normally fades after a week or so of the daily wipe down.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Arthur51]

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Hi,

We approach the time when we will be ordering our kitchen units. Found a
good online site with a showroom and the carcasses seem very solid, so
that's settled.

Now, the ultimate question... What worktop material?

OK - there will be a million different answers, but here goes

Stone (slate, granite etc) - too expensive for us - ruled out.

Stone/resin engineered laminate over MDF - still fairly pricey but not as
bad as stone. Not sure how tough this is.

Regular formica/chip - always has problems with the formica (whatever)
never being very robust. Either water gets in and lifts it or it stains
(OK, I cook curries) or it doesn't like the odd bit of heat...

Wood. I like this, in that it *could* be long lasting and can be repaired
if it gets abuse. I fancy my chances of fitting it myself too. But some
woods seem to be a sod for blackening if any water gets left (have kids,
it is going to happen, often)...

I'm veering towards wood if I can find a type and/or surface treatment
that is reasonably forgiving - SMWBO will need convincing, she likes
stone, although showing here the budget spreadsheet recently may have
cured that!

I suppose there might also be the option of glass over wood - not sure if
this is a done thing or how difficult it is to do, and whether there are
cons...

Random opinions sought - especially if it's a product recommendation :_)

..

A few days ago I came across a Concrete method.
Its also diyable with some books available on the subject.
Google 'concrete countertops'

Arthur

[Tim Watts]

On 24/05/10 20:50, js.b1 wrote:
Laminate is the toughest. Router the joints& waterproof glue. Use
something to protect the worktop re stains, or perhaps Dupont offer
something "repellant".

Wood is higher maintenance, and needs religuous use of cutting boards,
hot stands etc. Laminate is more forgiving of day to day without
maintenance apart from eventual replacement. Wood is good for
occasional use worktops, kitchen or breakfast area tables, built-in
tables and so on - if maintenance is likely to be less. Either that or
Osmo is your friend re hard wearing oil, wax-oil or wax transparent or
opaque finishes (you can buy samples as getting it right can be fun).

Thanks, I'll check out those products
--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

[Tim Watts]

On 24/05/10 20:51, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/05/2010 17:31, Tim Watts wrote:

Stone/resin engineered laminate over MDF - still fairly pricey but not
as bad as stone. Not sure how tough this is.

Would this include the Corian type of materials?

Yes indeed.

Regular formica/chip - always has problems with the formica (whatever)
never being very robust. Either water gets in and lifts it or it stains
(OK, I cook curries) or it doesn't like the odd bit of heat...

Must admit to never having had a problem with this - pick a decent one
and it seems robust enough. Not had any problem with stains either -
although I would probably go for a speckle patterned one that would not
show them anyway.

To be fair, the first was one my father did in the 70's when a) the
products really were crap, and it really was formica; b) 1 newbuild
house (Crest) and 1 newbuild flat (Ideal) so lets guess which end of the
catalogue they bought their materials from (hint, it wasn't the
expensive end!).

I might consider it - I just don;t want to be refitting then in 10
years... In the worst case, wood at least responds to a good sanding and
refinishing.

Wood. I like this, in that it *could* be long lasting and can be
repaired if it gets abuse. I fancy my chances of fitting it myself too.
But some woods seem to be a sod for blackening if any water gets left
(have kids, it is going to happen, often)...

The quality of the fitting counts in both cases - if the joints match
well and are well sealed before assembly it is difficult for water to
get in.


That's a good tip - what do you glue an edge joint with? EVA or epoxy or
silicone?

I'm veering towards wood if I can find a type and/or surface treatment
that is reasonably forgiving - SMWBO will need convincing, she likes
stone, although showing here the budget spreadsheet recently may have
cured that!

Could go for stone insets in strategic places...

That's a nice idea and a good one for mr router. Get a tile, set in.

I suppose there might also be the option of glass over wood - not sure
if this is a done thing or how difficult it is to do, and whether there
are cons...

Probably easier to chip.

True. And would have to be templated, so probably as expensive as corian
overlay.

Random opinions sought - especially if it's a product recommendation :_)

Considered stainless?


Ah yes. And no ;-
--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

[Tim Watts]

On 24/05/10 21:22, Arthur51 wrote:

A few days ago I came across a Concrete method.
Its also diyable with some books available on the subject.
Google 'concrete countertops'

Arthur

Different... Wish I could find the link, but it reminds me of a hosue in
the USA where they self-builders laid concrete slab floors, then
polished them aka shopping centre, but more boring 'cos it was plished
concrete. But the piece de resistance was when they then etched a stain
into the concrete (I don't know - some funky acid, turned it different
shades of orange and brown. By masking and reapplying the acid, they
created a terracotta tiled finish, with apparent grout lines in a very
elaborate pattern - and mirror smooth to boot.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

[Bruce[_8_]]

On Mon, 24 May 2010 21:08:27 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

Do you cook curries? Tumeric can stain *anything*.


The answer is surely to have a Turmeric colour worktop.


I'll get my kagoul ...

[Bruce[_8_]]

On Mon, 24 May 2010 22:23:14 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 24/05/10 21:22, Arthur51 wrote:

A few days ago I came across a Concrete method.
Its also diyable with some books available on the subject.
Google 'concrete countertops'

Arthur

Different... Wish I could find the link, but it reminds me of a hosue in
the USA where they self-builders laid concrete slab floors, then
polished them aka shopping centre, but more boring 'cos it was plished
concrete. But the piece de resistance was when they then etched a stain
into the concrete (I don't know - some funky acid, turned it different
shades of orange and brown. By masking and reapplying the acid, they
created a terracotta tiled finish, with apparent grout lines in a very
elaborate pattern - and mirror smooth to boot.


Many years ago I worked on a defence project where the kitchens had
reinforced concrete floors (blast resistant structure) that were
finished with a polished granolithic screed.

All the kitchen equipment was stainless steel and the monochromatic
effect of polished steel over a twinkling silver-grey floor was really
cool. I've often wondered whether it could be achieved in a domestic
kitchen but have never had a partner who shared my appreciation of
monochrome.

[Leo[_4_]]

I recently visited a laboratory in Canada where I worked in the
1980s.
The lab benches were made on site: plywood worktop coated
with black car body filler and sanded smooth. The result looked quite
good
and was completely seamless, and now after nearly 20 years of abuse
(hot glassware, spills of alcohol, phenol, acids, occasional heavy
scrubbing
to shift radioactive contamination...) they still look fine. Has
anybody done this
at home? It's a lot of filler and a lot of sanding, but it has to be
cheaper than
corian and there are no fancy joining techniques required.

Leo
On May 25, 11:17*am, Bruce wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2010 22:23:14 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/05/10 21:22, Arthur51 wrote:

A few days ago I came across a Concrete method.
Its also diyable with some books available on the subject.
Google 'concrete countertops'

[pcb1962[_2_]]

On 24 May, 17:31, Tim Watts wrote:

Wood. I like this, in that it *could* be long lasting and can be
repaired if it gets abuse. I fancy my chances of fitting it myself too.
But some woods seem to be a sod for blackening if any water gets left
(have kids, it is going to happen, often)...

I have beech block from Howdens, fitted myself. Good coat of Danish
oil every 6 months, absolutely no issues with blackening, I think
that's maybe more prevalent with oak.

[Stuart Noble]

Leo wrote:
I recently visited a laboratory in Canada where I worked in the
1980s.
The lab benches were made on site: plywood worktop coated
with black car body filler and sanded smooth. The result looked quite
good
and was completely seamless, and now after nearly 20 years of abuse
(hot glassware, spills of alcohol, phenol, acids, occasional heavy
scrubbing
to shift radioactive contamination...) they still look fine. Has
anybody done this
at home? It's a lot of filler and a lot of sanding, but it has to be
cheaper than
corian and there are no fancy joining techniques required.

Leo
On May 25, 11:17 am, Bruce wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2010 22:23:14 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/05/10 21:22, Arthur51 wrote:
A few days ago I came across a Concrete method.
Its also diyable with some books available on the subject.
Google 'concrete countertops'

That's a good advert for car body filler, but I would think the same
thing could be achieved more easily with lay-up resin.

[The Natural Philosopher[_2_]]

stuart noble wrote:
Leo wrote:
I recently visited a laboratory in Canada where I worked in the
1980s.
The lab benches were made on site: plywood worktop coated
with black car body filler and sanded smooth. The result looked quite
good
and was completely seamless, and now after nearly 20 years of abuse
(hot glassware, spills of alcohol, phenol, acids, occasional heavy
scrubbing
to shift radioactive contamination...) they still look fine. Has
anybody done this
at home? It's a lot of filler and a lot of sanding, but it has to be
cheaper than
corian and there are no fancy joining techniques required.

Leo
On May 25, 11:17 am, Bruce wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2010 22:23:14 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/05/10 21:22, Arthur51 wrote:
A few days ago I came across a Concrete method.
Its also diyable with some books available on the subject.
Google 'concrete countertops'

That's a good advert for car body filler, but I would think the same
thing could be achieved more easily with lay-up resin.

Most CBF is layup resin with a mica filler.

Not sure its any cheaper in bulk mixed or not.

[GMM]

On 24 May, 17:31, Tim Watts wrote:
Hi,

We approach the time when we will be ordering our kitchen units. Found a
good online site with a showroom and the carcasses seem very solid, so
that's settled.

Now, the ultimate question... What worktop material?

OK - there will be a million different answers, but here goes

Stone (slate, granite etc) - too expensive for us - ruled out.

Stone/resin engineered laminate over MDF - still fairly pricey but not
as bad as stone. Not sure how tough this is.

Regular formica/chip - always has problems with the formica (whatever)
never being very robust. Either water gets in and lifts it or it stains
(OK, I cook curries) or it doesn't like the odd bit of heat...

Wood. I like this, in that it *could* be long lasting and can be
repaired if it gets abuse. I fancy my chances of fitting it myself too.
But some woods seem to be a sod for blackening if any water gets left
(have kids, it is going to happen, often)...

I'm veering towards wood if I can find a type and/or surface treatment
that is reasonably forgiving - SMWBO will need convincing, she likes
stone, although showing here the budget spreadsheet recently may have
cured that!

I suppose there might also be the option of glass over wood - not sure
if this is a done thing or how difficult it is to do, and whether there
are cons...

Random opinions sought - especially if it's a product recommendation :_)

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

I fitted an oak worktop two years ago, with some trepidation (as there
were mixed reports on here), but it's performed very well so far.
Cost was more than laminate but much less than some of the fancier
things (though it was an online thing and they can easily vary 2 - 3
fold depending on source).
The weight kind of surprised me - they are 'king heavy, but it was
simple to cut (circular saw for the cut then router to finish) and
fit (biscuit butt joints cut with a router biscuit cutter from
Transtools, a bit of clear silicone in the joint). I've left the edge
square but keep thinking that a skim round with the router wouldn't be
a bad thing - have been waiting for it to get a chip or ten before
doing it.
Two issues I encountered: First it picked up a dent on fitting. I
steamed it out with an iron and wet kitchen towel but if it had been
laminate, that might have been a chip, which would be difficult to
fix. Second, 'worktop oil' never seemed to saturate the wood. After
a few thousand coats, I gave up and used Danish oil, which works much
better after a couple of coats.
After two years, it picked up a few superficial scratches so I ran
over it lightly with a random orbital sander and re-oiled it, so now
it looks pretty much like new.

[Matty F]

On May 25, 4:31 am, Tim Watts wrote:

Regular formica/chip - always has problems with the formica (whatever)
never being very robust. Either water gets in and lifts it or it stains
(OK, I cook curries) or it doesn't like the odd bit of heat...

This is my Formica bench after about 17 years.
http://i35.tinypic.com/ngsqqg.jpg

I scrub food off it with a metal scouring pad and that doesn't seem to
harm it.

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article ,
Leo writes:
I recently visited a laboratory in Canada where I worked in the
1980s.
The lab benches were made on site: plywood worktop coated
with black car body filler and sanded smooth. The result looked quite
good
and was completely seamless, and now after nearly 20 years of abuse
(hot glassware, spills of alcohol, phenol, acids, occasional heavy
scrubbing
to shift radioactive contamination...) they still look fine. Has
anybody done this
at home?

I'm careful not to spill the radioactive contamination when
I'm making a curry, but while it self-cooks, you have to be
careful to avoid burning the worktop with the dish bottom,
and remember to make sure you've taken out all the control
rods when it's done.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[NT[_2_]]

Tim Watts wrote:
Hi,

We approach the time when we will be ordering our kitchen units. Found a
good online site with a showroom and the carcasses seem very solid, so
that's settled.

Now, the ultimate question... What worktop material?

OK - there will be a million different answers, but here goes

Stone (slate, granite etc) - too expensive for us - ruled out.

Stone/resin engineered laminate over MDF - still fairly pricey but not
as bad as stone. Not sure how tough this is.

Regular formica/chip - always has problems with the formica (whatever)
never being very robust. Either water gets in and lifts it or it stains
(OK, I cook curries) or it doesn't like the odd bit of heat...

Wood. I like this, in that it *could* be long lasting and can be
repaired if it gets abuse. I fancy my chances of fitting it myself too.
But some woods seem to be a sod for blackening if any water gets left
(have kids, it is going to happen, often)...

I'm veering towards wood if I can find a type and/or surface treatment
that is reasonably forgiving - SMWBO will need convincing, she likes
stone, although showing here the budget spreadsheet recently may have
cured that!

I suppose there might also be the option of glass over wood - not sure
if this is a done thing or how difficult it is to do, and whether there
are cons...

Random opinions sought - especially if it's a product recommendation :_)

Tiled can be cheap, tough, durable. Grout gets dirty if not treated.


NT

[Tim Watts]

On 26/05/10 16:14, John Rumm wrote:
On 26/05/2010 11:49, NT wrote:

Random opinions sought - especially if it's a product recommendation :_)

Tiled can be cheap, tough, durable. Grout gets dirty if not treated.

Tiles can also be cheap, fragile, and end up cracked and chipped all
over the place! Chose your tiles carefully. Normal wall tiles don't
really hack it. Epoxied grout is probably a good bet as well.


I'm thinking the way to do this would be to fit the worktop, route for
the tile(s) aiming for a flush dry fit, treat with danish oil including
the tile recess, *then* fit the tile with a thin layer of epoxy glue and
epoxy grout. That way there would be no weak spots in the wood
protection right up on the edge of the tile's grout line. Sound convincing?

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

[js.b1]

On May 25, 11:42*pm, GMM wrote:
I fitted an oak worktop two years ago, with some trepidation

How did it stand up to objects being dragged on it, standing water,
direct cutting (carrot stains), regular wipedown & surface
disinfectant sprays?

My mother's 1984 laminate has actual abrasions through the fake block
oak, and invariably has standing water until it dries. Whilst a
cutting board is obvious, laminate will tolerate "mistakes" and the
above "wet world" whereas I suspect solid wood could be a significant
mistake.

[GMM]

On 27 May, 00:29, "js.b1" wrote:
On May 25, 11:42*pm, GMM wrote:

I fitted an oak worktop two years ago, with some trepidation

How did it stand up to objects being dragged on it, standing water,
direct cutting (carrot stains), regular wipedown & surface
disinfectant sprays?

My mother's 1984 laminate has actual abrasions through the fake block
oak, and invariably has standing water until it dries. Whilst a
cutting board is obvious, laminate will tolerate "mistakes" and the
above "wet world" whereas I suspect solid wood could be a significant
mistake.

Well, it's lasted pretty well in my opinion but I don't drag a lot of
things along worktops and wouldn't cut anything directly on any
worktop made of any material. It's not uncommon for water to stand on
it however and I can see no ill effects from that and wiping down
doesn't do it any harm. Have never used a disinfectant spray on it,
but I doubt it would do any harm: the worst that would happen would
be for the Danish oil to need recoating, I should think.