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robgraham April 22nd 10 10:46 PM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
My wife's Mazda MX5 hard top had the door seals replaced a year ago.
They are meant to grip onto a steel rib. They didn't fit all that
well when I did the job and now they are tending to drop off fairly
frequently. Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there
some specific silicone glue?

Thanks
Rob

The Natural Philosopher[_2_] April 22nd 10 10:59 PM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
robgraham wrote:
My wife's Mazda MX5 hard top had the door seals replaced a year ago.
They are meant to grip onto a steel rib. They didn't fit all that
well when I did the job and now they are tending to drop off fairly
frequently. Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there
some specific silicone glue?



I would try an acrylic like decorators caulk/. Easy to remove if it
dioesnt work and its less messy.

Thanks
Rob


Steve Firth April 23rd 10 12:26 AM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I would try an acrylic like decorators caulk/. Easy to remove if it
dioesnt work and its less messy.


And it's absolutely the wrong compound to use for this application.

The Medway Handyman[_2_] April 23rd 10 12:31 AM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
robgraham wrote:
My wife's Mazda MX5 hard top had the door seals replaced a year ago.
They are meant to grip onto a steel rib. They didn't fit all that
well when I did the job and now they are tending to drop off fairly
frequently. Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there
some specific silicone glue?


Something like this
http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.js...LAID=266887903


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk



The Natural Philosopher[_2_] April 23rd 10 12:32 AM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
Steve Firth wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I would try an acrylic like decorators caulk/. Easy to remove if it
dioesnt work and its less messy.


And it's absolutely the wrong compound to use for this application.

Worked well for me.

However, as we all know, you know so much about everything that your
head is not big enough to contain your brain, which is why most of your
thoughts dribble out of your arse.


Steve Firth April 23rd 10 12:43 AM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I would try an acrylic like decorators caulk/. Easy to remove if it
dioesnt work and its less messy.


And it's absolutely the wrong compound to use for this application.


Worked well for me.


Yes of course it did, and the moon is made of green cheese.

There may be life forms out there thicker than you, but if there are,
science hasn't discovered them yet.

Grimly Curmudgeon April 23rd 10 02:51 AM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember robgraham
saying something like:

Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there
some specific silicone glue?


For many automotive applications, Sikaflex tend to have the adhesive of
choice.

Steve Firth April 23rd 10 08:33 AM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

For many automotive applications, Sikaflex tend to have the adhesive of
choice.


A good choice, Sikaflex is a polyurethane adhesive/sealant and will
stand up well to the conditions encountered by a vehicle. Silicon
sealant should also work well and has the advantage that it can be
cleaned from bodywork with white spirit (or tar remover) without
damaging paintwork.

A polyurethane adhesive such as Gorilla glue should work but it foams
and is IMO unsuitable for vehicle applications. Sikaflex doesn't foam
and stays where it is put.

Water-based domestic acrylic sealant is the choice of fools.

Dave Plowman (News) April 23rd 10 09:25 AM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:


For many automotive applications, Sikaflex tend to have the adhesive of
choice.


A good choice, Sikaflex is a polyurethane adhesive/sealant and will
stand up well to the conditions encountered by a vehicle. Silicon
sealant should also work well and has the advantage that it can be
cleaned from bodywork with white spirit (or tar remover) without
damaging paintwork.


A polyurethane adhesive such as Gorilla glue should work but it foams
and is IMO unsuitable for vehicle applications. Sikaflex doesn't foam
and stays where it is put.


I'd found Evostick Serious excellent on a variety of materials around the
car that others barf at. Think it is also a polyurethane glue - but easily
available from your local shed.

Water-based domestic acrylic sealant is the choice of fools.


I'd agree there. Wouldn't even think of trying it.

--
*I took an IQ test and the results were negative.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The Natural Philosopher[_2_] April 23rd 10 10:51 AM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:


For many automotive applications, Sikaflex tend to have the adhesive of
choice.


A good choice, Sikaflex is a polyurethane adhesive/sealant and will
stand up well to the conditions encountered by a vehicle. Silicon
sealant should also work well and has the advantage that it can be
cleaned from bodywork with white spirit (or tar remover) without
damaging paintwork.


A polyurethane adhesive such as Gorilla glue should work but it foams
and is IMO unsuitable for vehicle applications. Sikaflex doesn't foam
and stays where it is put.


I'd found Evostick Serious excellent on a variety of materials around the
car that others barf at. Think it is also a polyurethane glue - but easily
available from your local shed.

Water-based domestic acrylic sealant is the choice of fools.


I'd agree there. Wouldn't even think of trying it.

If you want just enough adhesion to hold a rubber strip in place and
the ability to not leave smears of impossible to remove glue everywhere
else, its an ideal choice.

What is needed is more mastic than glue in this case. Just enough to
stop it all falling off.

If you want serious adhesion a contact adhesive like evostkik works
well. But you have no shuffling time.


The Other Mike[_3_] April 23rd 10 04:33 PM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 01:51:53 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember robgraham
saying something like:

Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there
some specific silicone glue?


For many automotive applications, Sikaflex tend to have the adhesive of
choice.


Got to agree. I've used Sikaflex 221 for fixing skinned rubber soft
top seals to metal before. If the surface is properly cleaned a
degreased then the seal fails before the joint.

The butyl tape that cpc sell for sealing loudspeaker drivers to
cabinets is good for temporary attachment at the start of a run and on
the corners as it stops the seal sliding in the groove which can
sometimes happen with a semi liquid mastic.

--

Dave Plowman (News) April 23rd 10 05:23 PM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
If you want just enough adhesion to hold a rubber strip in place and
the ability to not leave smears of impossible to remove glue everywhere
else, its an ideal choice.


It's a door seal which will have considerable pressure on it.

What is needed is more mastic than glue in this case. Just enough to
stop it all falling off.


Nothing like good enough.

If you want serious adhesion a contact adhesive like evostkik works
well. But you have no shuffling time.


Try looking at Evostick Serious. It's not a contact adhesive.

--
*If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Jules Richardson April 23rd 10 06:27 PM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 13:46:25 -0700, robgraham wrote:

My wife's Mazda MX5 hard top had the door seals replaced a year ago.
They are meant to grip onto a steel rib. They didn't fit all that well
when I did the job and now they are tending to drop off fairly
frequently. Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there some
specific silicone glue?


You mean they don't use metal clips which form nice moisture traps and
let the car body rust to buggery any more? :-)


The Natural Philosopher[_2_] April 23rd 10 06:30 PM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 01:51:53 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember robgraham
saying something like:

Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there
some specific silicone glue?

For many automotive applications, Sikaflex tend to have the adhesive of
choice.


Got to agree. I've used Sikaflex 221 for fixing skinned rubber soft
top seals to metal before. If the surface is properly cleaned a
degreased then the seal fails before the joint.


Thus ensuring you will never be able to cleanly remove the failed seal
ever again.

The butyl tape that cpc sell for sealing loudspeaker drivers to
cabinets is good for temporary attachment at the start of a run and on
the corners as it stops the seal sliding in the groove which can
sometimes happen with a semi liquid mastic.


The Natural Philosopher[_2_] April 23rd 10 06:35 PM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
If you want just enough adhesion to hold a rubber strip in place and
the ability to not leave smears of impossible to remove glue everywhere
else, its an ideal choice.


It's a door seal which will have considerable pressure on it.

What is needed is more mastic than glue in this case. Just enough to
stop it all falling off.


Nothing like good enough.


Oh? so you are the OP are you?

And know what he wants better than he does?

Most of these 'rubber in groove or groove in rubber' things are designed
to not need glue at all.

They normally need just a tack to stop them falling out, as by and large
when closed, they are under pressure anyway.

Using a low tack sealer works to (just) hold them in place, but not
enough so they cant be ever removed again.

I often use hot glue in cases like that. It will glue plastic to things,
but only just enough ..you can peel it off the plastic again. Acrylics
are good, but silicone is a bugger. Very messy.

Dave Plowman (News) April 23rd 10 06:41 PM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
If you want just enough adhesion to hold a rubber strip in place and
the ability to not leave smears of impossible to remove glue
everywhere else, its an ideal choice.


It's a door seal which will have considerable pressure on it.

What is needed is more mastic than glue in this case. Just enough to
stop it all falling off.


Nothing like good enough.


Oh? so you are the OP are you?


No - but lots of experience sticking such things.

And know what he wants better than he does?


Well, he didn't say the car was only used on fine days, so I'd not
recommend a non waterproof glue - unlike some. ;-)

Most of these 'rubber in groove or groove in rubber' things are designed
to not need glue at all.


So how do you prevent water siphoning underneath?

They normally need just a tack to stop them falling out, as by and large
when closed, they are under pressure anyway.


Usually sideways pressure.

Using a low tack sealer works to (just) hold them in place, but not
enough so they cant be ever removed again.


I often use hot glue in cases like that. It will glue plastic to things,
but only just enough ..you can peel it off the plastic again. Acrylics
are good, but silicone is a bugger. Very messy.


Most of the common hot glues - as in sticks - ain't waterproof either.

--
*Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave April 23rd 10 07:09 PM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Most of the common hot glues - as in sticks - ain't waterproof either.


Have you got a cite for that Dave, I'm interested in learning more.

Dave

JTM April 23rd 10 07:33 PM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the
desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember
robgraham saying something
like:


Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there
some specific silicone glue?


For many automotive applications, Sikaflex tend to have
the adhesive of choice.

There used to be an expert on this group many moons ago, was
it Johan? Haven't seen any posts for a long time, but
there's the WIKI
John

--
John Mulrooney
NOTE Email address IS correct but might not be checked for a while.

A person who is not forgotten is not dead

The Natural Philosopher[_2_] April 23rd 10 09:18 PM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:



Most of these 'rubber in groove or groove in rubber' things are designed
to not need glue at all.


So how do you prevent water siphoning underneath?


The same way any compressed rubber seal works. By filling all the space
with rubber.

Even Drivel doesn't use silicone on his pushfits.



The Natural Philosopher[_2_] April 23rd 10 09:20 PM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
Dave wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Most of the common hot glues - as in sticks - ain't waterproof either.


Have you got a cite for that Dave, I'm interested in learning more.


I don't see why modern hot glues would be water soluble. The old glue
pot glues were not, agreed. But they have come on as little bit since then.

I just tried licking the ones on my desk here. Not water soluble.

Dave


robgraham April 23rd 10 10:53 PM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
On 23 Apr, 17:27, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 13:46:25 -0700, robgraham wrote:
My wife's Mazda MX5 hard top had the door seals replaced a year ago.
They are meant to grip onto a steel rib. *They didn't fit all that well
when I did the job and now they are tending to drop off fairly
frequently. *Do I use ordinary silicone to glue them on or is there some
specific silicone glue?


You mean they don't use metal clips which form nice moisture traps and
let the car body rust to buggery any more? :-)


Well guys - we don't really seem to be that much further forward, but
many thanks all those who have made suggestions.

NP has the concept that the glue is required just to make up for the
poor attachment of the silicone rubber to the steel channel that is
there to hold it. I'm not sure if the channel is poorly designed or
the seal poorly made but the attachment needs reinforcing either way.
There is no way that I want a permanent bond, and what bonding
material is used should be capable of being removed in due course if
the seals age again and need further replacement. If it wasn't for
the difficulty of application, hot wax appeals.

We do have in Edinburgh a guy who restores old cars and my fall back
is to give him a phone and get his opinion. Ironically he's just had
the roof to re-line it and I really don't quite know why Her-In-Doors
didn't ask him when she collected it - the nett result is I then get
the grief for failing for once to be able to do the repair.

Rob

Dave Plowman (News) April 24th 10 12:10 AM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
In article ,
Dave wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Most of the common hot glues - as in sticks - ain't waterproof either.


Have you got a cite for that Dave, I'm interested in learning more.


I've tried them for sticking trim *inside* a car and they've failed after
a period. Insides of cars tend to get damp in winter.

--
*There are two sides to every divorce: Yours and **** head's*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) April 24th 10 12:14 AM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:



Most of these 'rubber in groove or groove in rubber' things are
designed to not need glue at all.


So how do you prevent water siphoning underneath?


The same way any compressed rubber seal works. By filling all the space
with rubber.


Car doors don't tend to have a micron perfect fit. And in most cases
aren't round, either.

Even Drivel doesn't use silicone on his pushfits.


You seem to have moved on from decorator's caulk...

--
*How much deeper would the oceans be without sponges? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) April 24th 10 12:19 AM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
In article
,
robgraham wrote:
NP has the concept that the glue is required just to make up for the
poor attachment of the silicone rubber to the steel channel that is
there to hold it. I'm not sure if the channel is poorly designed or
the seal poorly made but the attachment needs reinforcing either way.


Is it glued elsewhere? If it is just designed to push into a channel then
it would be designed to pull out too.

There is no way that I want a permanent bond, and what bonding
material is used should be capable of being removed in due course if
the seals age again and need further replacement. If it wasn't for
the difficulty of application, hot wax appeals.


Windscreens are glued in these days - but have to be capable of
replacement.

We do have in Edinburgh a guy who restores old cars and my fall back
is to give him a phone and get his opinion. Ironically he's just had
the roof to re-line it and I really don't quite know why Her-In-Doors
didn't ask him when she collected it - the nett result is I then get
the grief for failing for once to be able to do the repair.


Black Bostik was a favourite on older cars.

--
*Time is fun when you're having flies... Kermit

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave April 24th 10 01:35 AM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Dave wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Most of the common hot glues - as in sticks - ain't waterproof either.


Have you got a cite for that Dave, I'm interested in learning more.


I've tried them for sticking trim *inside* a car and they've failed after
a period. Insides of cars tend to get damp in winter.
No cite, but experience. Thanks Dave


Dave

robgraham April 27th 10 12:39 PM

Gluing silicon door seal to steel - sports car
 
On 23 Apr, 23:19, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article
,
* *robgraham wrote:

NP has the concept that the glue is required just to make up for the
poor attachment of the silicone rubber to the steel channel that is
there to hold it. *I'm not sure if the channel is poorly designed or
the seal poorly made but the attachment needs reinforcing either way.


Is it glued elsewhere? If it is just designed to push into a channel then
it would be designed to pull out too.

There is no way that I want a permanent bond, and what bonding
material is used should be capable of being removed in due course if
the seals age again and need further replacement. *If it wasn't for
the difficulty of application, hot wax appeals.


Windscreens are glued in these days - but have to be capable of
replacement.

We do have in Edinburgh a guy who restores old cars and my fall back
is to give him a phone and get his opinion. *Ironically he's just had
the roof to re-line it and I really don't quite know why Her-In-Doors
didn't ask him when she collected it - the nett result is I then get
the grief for failing for once to be able to do the repair.


Black Bostik was a favourite on older cars.

--
*Time is fun when you're having flies... Kermit *

* * Dave Plowman * * * * * * * * London SW
* * * * * * * * * To e-mail, change noise into sound.


Professional advise is to use ordinary silicone sealant. Seems
logical as silicone remover will clean up if and when the seals have
to be replaced in future.


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