Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

Hi all,

Some family friends have had their BT broadband taken out and gone to
Virgin cable (for the '20M' bit I think).

The house was originally two buildings so is fairly long and thin. I
put the ADSL router in the middle when I helped them set it up a few
years ago. The cable modem / router are now at one end, ok for the PC
in the next room but not for the one at the diametrically opposite end
of the building! ;-(

They have an 'n' Wireless netbook and the router is also 'n' but the
netbook loses signal about 2/3's the way down the house.

I have told them about the Ethernet_over_mains for the remote PC and
they are up for it but when asked they said they did have 'two
fuseboxes' and I wondered (especially if they were modern ELCB /
whatever types) if that might be a problem?

I might be able to use the EoM system to position the router more
centrally but I think that would be a second choice.

Cheers, T i m

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

T i m wrote:
Hi all,

Some family friends have had their BT broadband taken out and gone to
Virgin cable (for the '20M' bit I think).

The house was originally two buildings so is fairly long and thin. I
put the ADSL router in the middle when I helped them set it up a few
years ago. The cable modem / router are now at one end, ok for the PC
in the next room but not for the one at the diametrically opposite end
of the building! ;-(

They have an 'n' Wireless netbook and the router is also 'n' but the
netbook loses signal about 2/3's the way down the house.

I have told them about the Ethernet_over_mains for the remote PC and
they are up for it but when asked they said they did have 'two
fuseboxes' and I wondered (especially if they were modern ELCB /
whatever types) if that might be a problem?

Yes, powerline signals don't get past the consumer box apparently.

Surely they need a few strategic runs of Cat6 to create a backbone for the
wireless & powerline gadgets?

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Some family friends have had their BT broadband taken out and gone to
Virgin cable (for the '20M' bit I think).

The house was originally two buildings so is fairly long and thin. I
put the ADSL router in the middle when I helped them set it up a few
years ago. The cable modem / router are now at one end, ok for the PC
in the next room but not for the one at the diametrically opposite end
of the building! ;-(
snip

The blurb on Home Plugs suggests that most adjacent houses are on different
phases and so there is not much chance of data leaking outside your house.

Do you know if the two CUs are on the same phase?
Or are they relics of when there were two seperate properties?
That is, are the two CUs on the same meter or do you have two meters?

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

On Fri, 2 Apr 2010 10:16:56 +0100, "Steve Walker"
wrote:

T i m wrote:
Hi all,

Some family friends have had their BT broadband taken out and gone to
Virgin cable (for the '20M' bit I think).

The house was originally two buildings so is fairly long and thin. I
put the ADSL router in the middle when I helped them set it up a few
years ago. The cable modem / router are now at one end, ok for the PC
in the next room but not for the one at the diametrically opposite end
of the building! ;-(

They have an 'n' Wireless netbook and the router is also 'n' but the
netbook loses signal about 2/3's the way down the house.

I have told them about the Ethernet_over_mains for the remote PC and
they are up for it but when asked they said they did have 'two
fuseboxes' and I wondered (especially if they were modern ELCB /
whatever types) if that might be a problem?

Yes, powerline signals don't get past the consumer box apparently.

Ok, thanks (and what I feared).

Surely they need a few strategic runs of Cat6 to create a backbone for the
wireless & powerline gadgets?

That does sound like a good idea but I think it's a listed building
(making running cable's tricky in some cases) and the owners were
touchy about having even a router on display previously (when it was
in a hall).

Cheers, T i m

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 10:02:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:14:21 +0100, T i m wrote:

I have told them about the Ethernet_over_mains for the remote PC and
they are up for it but when asked they said they did have 'two
fuseboxes' and I wondered (especially if they were modern ELCB /
whatever types) if that might be a problem?

These were discussed fairly recently in reasonable depth, have a
google for the thread.

Ah, sorry.

I don't think any firm conclusion was reached
other than they work best plugged directly into fixed wiring on the
same ring main. Use of extensions or different rings degraded
performance but still worked,

Hmm.

I might be able to use the EoM system to position the router more
centrally but I think that would be a second choice.

Can you not just install a wireless AP where the old one was (that
dis provide the required coverage) connected to the cable modem via
powerline kit?

I could, yes.

This illustrates why having a combined wireless AP,
'net access modem/router/firewall (ADSL or cable) is not a good idea,
rarely is the best place for the AP the best place for the router.

I did mention that in my post, that I could probably remote the router
(and hence AP) from the modem over the powerline (second choice etc).

Having the two separate also means you can simply (power switch)
disable wireless access to the LAN without switching off anything
else or havving to delve into a web interface.

True.

Might not be an issue
but in homes with kids and all manner game toys with WiFi and abilty
to use the 'net I think it's a good idea so they can't do the modern
equivilant of "reading under the bed clothes" on MSN, etc...

;-)

My router powers the WiFi off at night, simply because I'm not there
to use it so it might as well be off. ;-)

Thinks I wonder if thy still have the old router? I could put that
back into play as an AP (as it obviously worked) and powerline that to
the new router? I could try that Distributed wireless thing but part
of the reason for getting VM was the 20M speed (that I have explained
may not be 20M all the time g).

Cheers, T i m

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:14:21 +0100, T i m wrote:

I have told them about the Ethernet_over_mains for the remote PC and
they are up for it but when asked they said they did have 'two
fuseboxes' and I wondered (especially if they were modern ELCB /
whatever types) if that might be a problem?

These were discussed fairly recently in reasonable depth, have a
google for the thread. I don't think any firm conclusion was reached
other than they work best plugged directly into fixed wiring on the
same ring main. Use of extensions or different rings degraded
performance but still worked,

I might be able to use the EoM system to position the router more
centrally but I think that would be a second choice.

Can you not just install a wireless AP where the old one was (that
dis provide the required coverage) connected to the cable modem via
powerline kit? This illustrates why having a combined wireless AP,
'net access modem/router/firewall (ADSL or cable) is not a good idea,
rarely is the best place for the AP the best place for the router.
Having the two separate also means you can simply (power switch)
disable wireless access to the LAN without switching off anything
else or havving to delve into a web interface. Might not be an issue
but in homes with kids and all manner game toys with WiFi and abilty
to use the 'net I think it's a good idea so they can't do the modern
equivilant of "reading under the bed clothes" on MSN, etc...

--
Cheers
Dave.

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

On Apr 2, 9:14*am, T i m wrote:
Hi all,

Some family friends have had their BT broadband taken out and gone to
Virgin cable (for the '20M' bit I think).

The house was originally two buildings so is fairly long and thin. I
put the ADSL router in the middle when I helped them set it up a few
years ago. The cable modem / router are now at one end, ok for the PC
in the next room but not for the one at the diametrically opposite end
of the building! ;-(

They have an 'n' Wireless netbook and the router is also 'n' but the
netbook loses signal about 2/3's the way down the house.

I have told them about the Ethernet_over_mains for the remote PC and
they are up for it but when asked they said they did have 'two
fuseboxes' and I wondered (especially if they were modern ELCB /
whatever types) if that might be a problem?

I might be able to use the EoM system to position the router more
centrally but I think that would be a second choice.

Cheers, *T i m

One could just add a couple of Y rated capacitors from live to live
and neutral to neutral. Include a 1A current fuse on each, and be sure
to pick small enough cap values that the minimal current leaked wont
bite anyone.

And label the CUs so people know to disconnect the caps to achieve
total isolation.

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

"NT" wrote in message
...

One could just add a couple of Y rated capacitors from live to live
and neutral to neutral. Include a 1A current fuse on each, and be sure
to pick small enough cap values that the minimal current leaked wont
bite anyone.

And label the CUs so people know to disconnect the caps to achieve
total isolation.

You could use the powerline links designed for the job.

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember T i m saying
something like:

That does sound like a good idea but I think it's a listed building
(making running cable's tricky in some cases) and the owners were
touchy about having even a router on display previously (when it was
in a hall).

Use a parabollock antenna for the wireless ends.

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

On Apr 2, 1:22*pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"NT" wrote in message

...

One could just add a couple of Y rated capacitors from live to live
and neutral to neutral. Include a 1A current fuse on each, and be sure
to pick small enough cap values that the minimal current leaked wont
bite anyone.

And label the CUs so people know to disconnect the caps to achieve
total isolation.

You could use the powerline links designed for the job.

What's the markup on those?


NT

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

NT wrote:
On Apr 2, 1:22 pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"NT" wrote in message

...

One could just add a couple of Y rated capacitors from live to live
and neutral to neutral. Include a 1A current fuse on each, and be sure
to pick small enough cap values that the minimal current leaked wont
bite anyone.
And label the CUs so people know to disconnect the caps to achieve
total isolation.
You could use the powerline links designed for the job.

What's the markup on those?


NT
surely two power blocks one on each ring with an ethernet cable between.

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 14:58:23 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember T i m saying
something like:

That does sound like a good idea but I think it's a listed building
(making running cable's tricky in some cases) and the owners were
touchy about having even a router on display previously (when it was
in a hall).

Use a parabollock antenna for the wireless ends.

It was a thought ...

Cheers, T i m

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

On Fri, 2 Apr 2010 10:33:45 +0100, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
Hi all,

Some family friends have had their BT broadband taken out and gone to
Virgin cable (for the '20M' bit I think).

The house was originally two buildings so is fairly long and thin. I
put the ADSL router in the middle when I helped them set it up a few
years ago. The cable modem / router are now at one end, ok for the PC
in the next room but not for the one at the diametrically opposite end
of the building! ;-(
snip

The blurb on Home Plugs suggests that most adjacent houses are on different
phases and so there is not much chance of data leaking outside your house.

That could be bad then.

Do you know if the two CUs are on the same phase?

Possibly (see below)

Or are they relics of when there were two seperate properties?

Not sure about any of the hardware (I was in a rush yesterday but can
pop back for a closer look).

That is, are the two CUs on the same meter or do you have two meters?

They have one meter (that was one question they could answer g) and
I guess it may come down to trial and error if it works through both
CU's (and that may depend on how modern there are (older=better)).

Based on they might be handy to have anyway I might get a pair and
just give them a go.

Cheers, T i m

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

"NT" wrote in message
...
On Apr 2, 1:22 pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"NT" wrote in message

...

One could just add a couple of Y rated capacitors from live to live
and neutral to neutral. Include a 1A current fuse on each, and be sure
to pick small enough cap values that the minimal current leaked wont
bite anyone.

And label the CUs so people know to disconnect the caps to achieve
total isolation.

You could use the powerline links designed for the job.

What's the markup on those?

Probably no more than the rest of the homeplug stuff. They are very
expensive compared to other stuff with a similar amount of electronics in.

You could use two adapters back to back but you may need a twisted cable.
There may be some interference between the two homeplug networks created by
doing so but I have never tried it so it may not be a problem.

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

On Apr 2, 8:22*pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"NT" wrote in message

...



On Apr 2, 1:22 pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"NT" wrote in message

....

One could just add a couple of Y rated capacitors from live to live
and neutral to neutral. Include a 1A current fuse on each, and be sure
to pick small enough cap values that the minimal current leaked wont
bite anyone.

And label the CUs so people know to disconnect the caps to achieve
total isolation.

You could use the powerline links designed for the job.

What's the markup on those?

Probably no more than the rest of the homeplug stuff. They are very
expensive compared to other stuff with a similar amount of electronics in..

You could use two adapters back to back but you may need a twisted cable.
There may be some interference between the two homeplug networks created by
doing so but I have never tried it so it may not be a problem.

a capacitor or 2 should work about as well


NT

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 02:34:22 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

T i m wrote:

I have told them about the Ethernet_over_mains for the remote PC and
they are up for it but when asked they said they did have 'two
fuseboxes' and I wondered (especially if they were modern ELCB /
whatever types) if that might be a problem?

Since they are being fed from the same meter, it sounds as if they are
on the same phase. In which case the answer I posted to this last month
should apply. now where was it.....

Ah, yes - try this:

Yup, just did a test for you using a pair of Solwise 85Mbps home plugs.

Connection end to end was:

Computer 1 (3GHz P4 HT WinXP) -
gigabit switch -
homplug1 -
IT cabinet radial circuit -
House split load CU with B6 MCB -
MK 100mA Type S RCD -
Tails -
Henley block -
Outbuilding split load CU -
MK 100mA Type S RCD -
30A HRC Fuse -
Cable run to workshop (20m) -
Workshop split load CU -
Incomer Switch -
30mA RCD -
B32 MCB -
ring final circuit (approx 40m round trip) -
homeplug2 -
P3 600MHz laptop (Win2k).

Indicated speed on homeplug utility approx 19 Mbps

Real world test file copy at windows desktop managed a throughput of
approx 700KBytes / sec so probably in the region of 8 - 9Mbit when you
strip away the windows SMB overhead and TCP/IP etc.

A second test going to homplug2 placed on a B32 MCB on the 30mA RCD
(Hager) of the house CU also reported the same connection speed. That
would include 1 RCD and 2 MCBs in the path rather than 3 RCDs, 2 MCBs,
and 1 HRC Fuse in circuit.

Hence I would guess the RCDs make little if any difference to
throughput.

Ok.

MCBs however may have an effect - not yet verified. --

So it may be good if they still run straight fuses. ;-)

As I mentioned elsewhere (and supported by feedback here) I think I'll
get a pair for them anyway. Even if they don't sort their problem over
the longest link I'm sure I can use them somehow to overcome their
problems.

Brilliant, cheers John.

T i m

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

In article
, NT
writes
On Apr 2, 8:22*pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"NT" wrote in message

...



On Apr 2, 1:22 pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"NT" wrote in message


m...

One could just add a couple of Y rated capacitors from live to live
and neutral to neutral. Include a 1A current fuse on each, and be sure
to pick small enough cap values that the minimal current leaked wont
bite anyone.

And label the CUs so people know to disconnect the caps to achieve
total isolation.

You could use the powerline links designed for the job.

What's the markup on those?

Probably no more than the rest of the homeplug stuff. They are very
expensive compared to other stuff with a similar amount of electronics in.

You could use two adapters back to back but you may need a twisted cable.
There may be some interference between the two homeplug networks created by
doing so but I have never tried it so it may not be a problem.

a capacitor or 2 should work about as well

Agreed and at the cost of a quid plus the housing and fuses. No safety
issue as long as the caps are Y-class, the fuses and the labelling sound
good precautions.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

Powerline Ethernet and two CUs?
 

"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Some family friends have had their BT broadband taken out and gone to
Virgin cable (for the '20M' bit I think).

The house was originally two buildings so is fairly long and thin. I
put the ADSL router in the middle when I helped them set it up a few
years ago. The cable modem / router are now at one end, ok for the PC
in the next room but not for the one at the diametrically opposite end
of the building! ;-(

They have an 'n' Wireless netbook and the router is also 'n' but the
netbook loses signal about 2/3's the way down the house.

I have told them about the Ethernet_over_mains for the remote PC and
they are up for it but when asked they said they did have 'two
fuseboxes' and I wondered (especially if they were modern ELCB /
whatever types) if that might be a problem?

I might be able to use the EoM system to position the router more
centrally but I think that would be a second choice.

Cheers, T i m


why not just run a length of CAT5e from Router to other PC ? ... much
better than Ethernet over mains.