For the wood experts - American White vs European Oak?
 

For various reasons, I'm possibly having to match some architrave in
American White Oak to European Oak Skirting (different suppliers, big price
difference etc).

From what I can see, in this context, images on google suggest they look
very similar.

Anyone able to comment if they would be a reasonable complement once oiled
or waxed plus aged?

They don't have to match exactly as they are in different functions but they
will be abutting - so anything too radically different might look weird.

I could get matching wood for a cheaper price than I have been paying but it
would mean ordering from the north, whereas is turns out theres a
sawmill/finishing outfit not far away that specialise in European.

The whole point of the excercise is to not paint any of this - I hate
painting miles of skirting and it always looks crap when the paint chips
off.

Wish I understood wood!

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

For the wood experts - American White vs European Oak?
 

On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:31:42 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:
The whole point of the excercise is to not paint any of this - I hate
painting miles of skirting and it always looks crap when the paint chips
off.

Yes, I know what you mean. For our kids' rooms I just got cheap pre-
painted stuff at something like $40 for 100lf - I figure it'll get bumped
and scraped and stained, but at that price I don't mind just replacing it
every few years (it's not exactly a time-consuming job).

For our downstairs rooms (which, in typical 'farmhouse' style, have never
had anything), I'd like to do something in red oak to match our tables
and the stair rail that I put in and spend a bit more time on it...

Wish I understood wood!

Yes, me too. I can work "with it" reasonably well, but I don't
"understand it". Frustrating at times - but whether there are any good
online resources or books I can make use of, or whether I need to bite
the bullet and go one some kind of course, I'm not sure.

cheers

Jules

For the wood experts - American White vs European Oak?
 

On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:31:42 +0000
Tim Watts wrote:

For various reasons, I'm possibly having to match some architrave in
American White Oak to European Oak Skirting (different suppliers, big price
difference etc).

From what I can see, in this context, images on google suggest they look
very similar.

Anyone able to comment if they would be a reasonable complement once oiled
or waxed plus aged?

They don't have to match exactly as they are in different functions but they
will be abutting - so anything too radically different might look weird.

I could get matching wood for a cheaper price than I have been paying but it
would mean ordering from the north, whereas is turns out theres a
sawmill/finishing outfit not far away that specialise in European.

The whole point of the excercise is to not paint any of this - I hate
painting miles of skirting and it always looks crap when the paint chips
off.

Wish I understood wood!

Cheers

Tim


American white oak is quite pale and doesn't darken much with age. It
has much less figure, especially when not quarter sawn. European Oak
has more figuring, particularly so if quarter sawn, and darkens
considerably with age - after a couple of hundred years it will be
black (don't know what American does in the same timescale).

Used as a ephemeral trim wood, as you plan, there is little to choose
between them, and normal staining/finishing should even them out. They
certainly will not look weird, at least not for a few decades!

Painting Oak is a criminal offence.

R.

For the wood experts - American White vs European Oak?
 

On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:50:54 +0000 (UTC)
Jules Richardson wrote:

On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:31:42 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:
The whole point of the excercise is to not paint any of this - I hate
painting miles of skirting and it always looks crap when the paint chips
off.

Yes, I know what you mean. For our kids' rooms I just got cheap pre-
painted stuff at something like $40 for 100lf - I figure it'll get bumped
and scraped and stained, but at that price I don't mind just replacing it
every few years (it's not exactly a time-consuming job).

For our downstairs rooms (which, in typical 'farmhouse' style, have never
had anything), I'd like to do something in red oak to match our tables
and the stair rail that I put in and spend a bit more time on it...

Wish I understood wood!

Yes, me too. I can work "with it" reasonably well, but I don't
"understand it". Frustrating at times - but whether there are any good
online resources or books I can make use of, or whether I need to bite
the bullet and go one some kind of course, I'm not sure.

cheers

Jules


Buy some offcuts, plane them, and look at the figuring.

The differences between Oak species are obvious, but not just color
(colour). The main differences are how they look when cut in various
ways.

Oak, like most true hardwoods, has two grain structures. Those that
run up the trunk and carry the sap, and those that run across the
trunk. The net effect is that there is a big difference in appearance
depending on how the tree is turned into lumber (timber).

R.

For the wood experts - American White vs European Oak?
 

TheOldFellow
wibbled on Monday 15 March 2010 20:55


American white oak is quite pale and doesn't darken much with age. It
has much less figure, especially when not quarter sawn. European Oak
has more figuring, particularly so if quarter sawn, and darkens
considerably with age - after a couple of hundred years it will be
black (don't know what American does in the same timescale).

Used as a ephemeral trim wood, as you plan, there is little to choose
between them, and normal staining/finishing should even them out. They
certainly will not look weird, at least not for a few decades!

Thanks - that gives me a feel :)

Painting Oak is a criminal offence.

Agree. I find even a cheap softwood quite interesting if just oiled, even if
it is one that most carpenters would call crap. I've been over exposed to
melamine and fake plastic wood from the 70's, so anything vaguely natural
seems to be a plus to me!

I don't mind a nice painted piece of wood but I'd rather have a battered
waxed piece than a battered painted piece, which is invariable where the
nice painted piece goes given a few years.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

For the wood experts - American White vs European Oak?
 

On 15 Mar, 19:31, Tim Watts wrote:
For various reasons, I'm possibly having to match some architrave in
American White Oak to European Oak Skirting

Anyone able to comment if they would be a reasonable complement once oiled
or waxed plus aged?

They're very similar. Both are Quercus robur as a species, although
oaks are a bit all over the place for hybrids anyway. Generally
American white oak is better than ours, particularly for quarter-sawn
with ray-flake figure. If you're building Craftsman / Stickley style
pieces, it can be worth seeking out American timber. Their maple's
better too, OTOH our walnut beats theirs and their ash or beech are
poor.

Watch out for American red oak (Q. rubra) Not the same thing at all!

Both will darken with age and so it's popular (particularly in the
USA) to ammonia fume them (the classic Stickley look). I'm a big fan
of this, and it's easy to do. Then wax over oil, or shellac over oil,
as a finish.

Wish I understood wood!

Then obviously you need this!
Understanding Wood
R.Bruce Hoadley
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1561583588/codesmiths

An astoundingly good book. It's readable, and it will teach you how
wood behaves. In particular, you'll get to grips with the tricky
business of moisture shrinkage.

For the wood experts - American White vs European Oak?
 

On Mar 15, 2:50*pm, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:31:42 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:
The whole point of the excercise is to not paint any of this - I hate
painting miles of skirting and it always looks crap when the paint chips
off.

Yes, I know what you mean. For our kids' rooms I just got cheap pre-
painted stuff at something like $40 for 100lf - I figure it'll get bumped
and scraped and stained, but at that price I don't mind just replacing it
every few years (it's not exactly a time-consuming job).

For our downstairs rooms (which, in typical 'farmhouse' style, have never
had anything), I'd like to do something in red oak to match our tables
and the stair rail that I put in and spend a bit more time on it...

Wish I understood wood!

Yes, me too. I can work "with it" reasonably well, but I don't
"understand it". Frustrating at times - but whether there are any good
online resources or books I can make use of, or whether I need to bite
the bullet and go one some kind of course, I'm not sure.

cheers

Jules

I should have said put a coat of oil base primer on the putty, that
will seal it.

For the wood experts - American White vs European Oak?
 

Andy Dingley
wibbled on Monday 15 March 2010 21:19

On 15 Mar, 19:31, Tim Watts wrote:
For various reasons, I'm possibly having to match some architrave in
American White Oak to European Oak Skirting

Anyone able to comment if they would be a reasonable complement once
oiled or waxed plus aged?

They're very similar. Both are Quercus robur as a species, although
oaks are a bit all over the place for hybrids anyway. Generally
American white oak is better than ours, particularly for quarter-sawn
with ray-flake figure. If you're building Craftsman / Stickley style
pieces, it can be worth seeking out American timber. Their maple's
better too, OTOH our walnut beats theirs and their ash or beech are
poor.

Interesting.

Watch out for American red oak (Q. rubra) Not the same thing at all!

Both will darken with age and so it's popular (particularly in the
USA) to ammonia fume them (the classic Stickley look). I'm a big fan
of this, and it's easy to do. Then wax over oil, or shellac over oil,
as a finish.

I've heard of that. Don't think I'd like to try with such large
quantities/lengths ;- Maybe a smaller piece, if I make something from the
offcuts.

The colour of the door frames I've previously installed, but not treated yet
seems to be mellowing quite nicely. I think I might install the skirting and
architrave and leaving it a while before final oiling to see what happens.

Chap next door has recommended Treatex which is a blend of oils and waxes,
so I'm considering that for the finish.

It sounds like I might be onto an acceptable solution doing the skirting in
European. I'll take a sample of my white down to the yard and see how it
looks against their european. The benefit of the local place is I would
rather buy the skirting in small batches, room by room. If I start poncing
about distance ordering, I'll either get done on delivery or I'd need to
store 66m which is a tad inconvenient.

Wish I understood wood!

Then obviously you need this!
Understanding Wood
R.Bruce Hoadley
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1561583588/codesmiths

An astoundingly good book. It's readable, and it will teach you how
wood behaves. In particular, you'll get to grips with the tricky
business of moisture shrinkage.

Ordered - I look forward to reading that - ta.


Many thanks

Tim
--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

For the wood experts - American White vs European Oak?
 

On 16 Mar, 00:29, John Rumm wrote:

I have a distant recollection of reading something that suggested the
European version was "durable" without additional protection, whereas
the American version not quit so. Is that the case?

They're much closer to each other as species, than the variation
between trees according to growth conditions. You'll certainly see
variations, but that's why it's good to hand pick your boards. In
particular, tannin levels vary and this affects colour (slightly),
eventual colour (hugely) and rot resistance (actually mostly by bug
attack rather than fungi).

There's also the UK (largely Welsh) Q. petrea upland stone oak (still
a "white oak") which you're unlikely to see as timber unless you fell
it yourself. As this is an upland timber it's slower grown, usually
denser and higher in tannin.

Red oak (exclusively American in bulk) can be less durable around
moisture as it has open pores, rather than plugged with tyloses as for
white oak.

For the wood experts - American White vs European Oak?
 

Tim Watts wrote:
Andy Dingley
wibbled on Monday 15 March 2010 21:19

On 15 Mar, 19:31, Tim Watts wrote:
For various reasons, I'm possibly having to match some architrave in
American White Oak to European Oak Skirting
Anyone able to comment if they would be a reasonable complement once
oiled or waxed plus aged?
They're very similar. Both are Quercus robur as a species, although
oaks are a bit all over the place for hybrids anyway. Generally
American white oak is better than ours, particularly for quarter-sawn
with ray-flake figure. If you're building Craftsman / Stickley style
pieces, it can be worth seeking out American timber. Their maple's
better too, OTOH our walnut beats theirs and their ash or beech are
poor.

Interesting.

Watch out for American red oak (Q. rubra) Not the same thing at all!

Both will darken with age and so it's popular (particularly in the
USA) to ammonia fume them (the classic Stickley look). I'm a big fan
of this, and it's easy to do. Then wax over oil, or shellac over oil,
as a finish.

I've heard of that. Don't think I'd like to try with such large
quantities/lengths ;- Maybe a smaller piece, if I make something from the
offcuts.

The colour of the door frames I've previously installed, but not treated yet
seems to be mellowing quite nicely. I think I might install the skirting and
architrave and leaving it a while before final oiling to see what happens.

Chap next door has recommended Treatex which is a blend of oils and waxes,
so I'm considering that for the finish.

It sounds like I might be onto an acceptable solution doing the skirting in
European. I'll take a sample of my white down to the yard and see how it
looks against their european. The benefit of the local place is I would
rather buy the skirting in small batches, room by room. If I start poncing
about distance ordering, I'll either get done on delivery or I'd need to
store 66m which is a tad inconvenient.

Wish I understood wood!
Then obviously you need this!
Understanding Wood
R.Bruce Hoadley
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1561583588/codesmiths

An astoundingly good book. It's readable, and it will teach you how
wood behaves. In particular, you'll get to grips with the tricky
business of moisture shrinkage.

Ordered - I look forward to reading that - ta.


Many thanks

Tim

It used to be the case that imported American hardwoods were considered
the most reliable for indoor use. When they stated 10% moisture content,
that's what you got, hence its popularity with the kitchen door
producers. With a local merchant you might be taking a gamble in this
respect. That said, if it planes up well, with no tears, that's a good
indicator.

For the wood experts - American White vs European Oak?
 

Tim Watts wrote:

Wish I understood wood!


"Understanding wood" by Hoadley..should be your next purchase..