Hi,

I was wondering about using rechargeable batteries for our children's
toys. I know that rechargeable batteries are suited better to some
applications than others; do you think they would be suitable for
these? I think it is only low drain uses, such as clocks, where
rechargeables don't perform well, isn't it?

What is the best charger to buy? I thought Uniross was supposed to be
the name in rechargeable technology but I've read a few reviews on
amazon of their charges and they are criticised for being timed
chargers rather than intelligent chargers. The energiser charger
appears to be highly recommended though one criticism is that it only
charges pairs of batteries and many toys use three at a time.

Is there an intelligent charger than charges batteries individually?

I'm likely to buy nimh. Why are these preferred over nicd? Is it just
that cadmium is not friendly? Is there any advantage to ever using
nicd? Would one charger charge both if I ever needed or are some
chargers nicd or nimh only?

Finally, I see that AA batteries are rated at 2700mAh and C and D
cells are rated 2600mAh. I would have expected a larger battery to
have had a higher capacity; why not?

Thanks in advance.

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:58:45 +0000, Fred
wrote:

I'm likely to buy nimh. Why are these preferred over nicd? Is it just
that cadmium is not friendly? Is there any advantage to ever using
nicd?


NiMH batteries tend to have higher capacity. NiMH batteries seem to
last longer. NiCad batteries duffer from an earlier reduction in
capacity than NiMH.


Would one charger charge both if I ever needed or are some
chargers nicd or nimh only?


Some "intelligent" chargers will charge both types.


Finally, I see that AA batteries are rated at 2700mAh and C and D
cells are rated 2600mAh. I would have expected a larger battery to
have had a higher capacity; why not?


You can buy higher capacity C and D cells in some brands. In other
brands, they just put an AA cell inside a C or D size casing.

In article ,
Fred wrote:
Hi,

I was wondering about using rechargeable batteries for our children's
toys. I know that rechargeable batteries are suited better to some
applications than others; do you think they would be suitable for
these? I think it is only low drain uses, such as clocks, where
rechargeables don't perform well, isn't it?

Pretty much. A big problem with NiMH is the self drain - they will
got flat on their own with little use. A low drain device you'll find the
cell goes flat on its own before the device flattens it.

Look for the Eneloop (and clone) type cells - *much* better. They appear
to be lower capacity but with a few days the normal ones will have dropped
to that level anyway.

What is the best charger to buy? I thought Uniross was supposed to be
the name in rechargeable technology but I've read a few reviews on
amazon of their charges and they are criticised for being timed
chargers rather than intelligent chargers. The energiser charger
appears to be highly recommended though one criticism is that it only
charges pairs of batteries and many toys use three at a time.

Find one that charges individual cells with decent feedback.

Is there an intelligent charger than charges batteries individually?

Plenty. Not cheap but worth the extra IMO. I use a couple of Ansmann
chargers. Take a look at the Energy (plus) range for example.

http://www.ansmann.de/cms/en/consumr...gy-8-plus.html

http://tinyurl.com/yaljhzn

I'm likely to buy nimh. Why are these preferred over nicd? Is it just
that cadmium is not friendly? Is there any advantage to ever using
nicd? Would one charger charge both if I ever needed or are some
chargers nicd or nimh only?

Any decent charger will do both.

Finally, I see that AA batteries are rated at 2700mAh and C and D
cells are rated 2600mAh. I would have expected a larger battery to
have had a higher capacity; why not?

Because they are AA cells in the large empty plastic case. You can
get adaptors to do this yourself which is a lot more flexable (not sure
the ones that take more than one cell are wise - uneven discharging
could be a problem).

Proper NiMH C and D cells are available, but are usually expensive (check
Lidl for cheap ones - although I've had issues with them). Take a look at

http://www.battery-force.co.uk/detai...Pack-of-2.html

http://tinyurl.com/ybs223u

http://www.battery-force.co.uk/detai...Pack-of-2.html

http://tinyurl.com/yhleady

Pricey :-)

The other thing is in practise you'll find a decent brand 2300mAh cell will
often be much better than a cheap 2700mAh - I've given up with "cheap" cells.

Darren

"D.M.Chapman" dmc@puffin. wrote in message
...
In article ,
Fred wrote:
Hi,

I was wondering about using rechargeable batteries for our children's
toys. I know that rechargeable batteries are suited better to some
applications than others; do you think they would be suitable for
these? I think it is only low drain uses, such as clocks, where
rechargeables don't perform well, isn't it?

Pretty much. A big problem with NiMH is the self drain - they will
got flat on their own with little use. A low drain device you'll find the
cell goes flat on its own before the device flattens it.

Look for the Eneloop (and clone) type cells - *much* better. They appear
to be lower capacity but with a few days the normal ones will have dropped
to that level anyway.

What is the best charger to buy? I thought Uniross was supposed to be
the name in rechargeable technology but I've read a few reviews on
amazon of their charges and they are criticised for being timed
chargers rather than intelligent chargers. The energiser charger
appears to be highly recommended though one criticism is that it only
charges pairs of batteries and many toys use three at a time.

Find one that charges individual cells with decent feedback.

Is there an intelligent charger than charges batteries individually?

Plenty. Not cheap but worth the extra IMO. I use a couple of Ansmann
chargers. Take a look at the Energy (plus) range for example.

http://www.ansmann.de/cms/en/consumr...gy-8-plus.html

http://tinyurl.com/yaljhzn

I'm likely to buy nimh. Why are these preferred over nicd? Is it just
that cadmium is not friendly? Is there any advantage to ever using
nicd? Would one charger charge both if I ever needed or are some
chargers nicd or nimh only?

Any decent charger will do both.

Finally, I see that AA batteries are rated at 2700mAh and C and D
cells are rated 2600mAh. I would have expected a larger battery to
have had a higher capacity; why not?

Because they are AA cells in the large empty plastic case. You can
get adaptors to do this yourself which is a lot more flexable (not sure
the ones that take more than one cell are wise - uneven discharging
could be a problem).

Proper NiMH C and D cells are available, but are usually expensive (check
Lidl for cheap ones - although I've had issues with them). Take a look at

http://www.battery-force.co.uk/detai...Pack-of-2.html

http://tinyurl.com/ybs223u

http://www.battery-force.co.uk/detai...Pack-of-2.html

http://tinyurl.com/yhleady

Pricey :-)

The other thing is in practise you'll find a decent brand 2300mAh cell
will
often be much better than a cheap 2700mAh - I've given up with "cheap"
cells.

Darren


Another vote for Ansmann here - I've got several of their chargers, all
excellent.

I've had good service from Budget Batteries in the past:
http://www.budgetbatteries.co.uk/battery-chargers/

Alan.

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:58:45 +0000, Fred wrote:

Hi,

I was wondering about using rechargeable batteries for our children's
toys. I know that rechargeable batteries are suited better to some
applications than others; do you think they would be suitable for these?
I think it is only low drain uses, such as clocks, where rechargeables
don't perform well, isn't it?



Rechargeables are not always the best choice.

1) You shouldn't run them flat. They really need to be recharged *before*
they go flat.

2) The terminal voltage is lower. Both NiCd and NiMH are 1.2 volts and
alkalines/ordinary cells are 1.5v (nominal - they start higher than
this). This *can* cause problems in some equipment as they may be
detected as flat when, in fact, they have a lot of charge left.

3) NiCd and NiMH have an interesting discharge curve, where they hold
their voltage up right until the end then go flat quite suddenly, without
any warning.

4) NiCd & NiMH have a low internal resistance, that is they can provide a
very large current for a short length of time. If they are used for
motors, for example, then some protection is needed against the motor
being stalled as the resulting high current could permanently damage the
motor.

5) Nicad & nimh are temperature sensitive. As the temperature falls the
cell *appears* to have a lower charge and will go flat earlier. If the
cell temperature is raised then the full charge reappears!


Choice of chargers can be a minefield. Basically, you exchange charging
speed for cell life. Fast chargers shorten the life of the cells, safe
chargers let the cells last longer. There isn't really any need to charge
cells individually in many cases. A lot of equipment uses 2 cells so you
can charge quite satisfactorily in pairs. There are intelligent single
cell chargers, but they aren't cheap. Look for delta-V (if possible) and
cell temperature termination, probably with a safety timer, in any
charger.

I doubt if Uniross are any better or any worse than any other company!
It's difficult to judge without testing a lot of different chargers with
a lot of different cells.

Cell mAh values can often be taken with a pinch of salt. They are rarely
accurate and much depends on the characteristics of the charger and the
load as to how much useful charge a cell will accept. I've had 1800mAh
cells that outlasted 2200mAh cells in a camera - by a large margin too.
I'm not the exception either.

Having said all that, I would first check the toys' instructions. Some
specifically tell you not to use rechargeables. Sometimes this is for
safety reasons and shouldn't be ignored. Any others would be worth a try,
but you may get less "playing" time between charges than you get with
ordinary batteries.

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Filtering everything posted from googlegroups to kill spam.

In article ,
D.M.Chapman dmc@puffin. wrote:
Pretty much. A big problem with NiMH is the self drain - they will
got flat on their own with little use.

Not so with any of the power tools I have. And not a problem with toys,
surely?

--
*Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Fred wrote:
What is the best charger to buy? I thought Uniross was supposed to be
the name in rechargeable technology but I've read a few reviews on
amazon of their charges and they are criticised for being timed
chargers rather than intelligent chargers. The energiser charger
appears to be highly recommended though one criticism is that it only
charges pairs of batteries and many toys use three at a time.

Keep an eye on Lidl special offers. They do a very good intelligent
charger that takes all sizes and types - and charges them individually.
Takes 6 AA or AAA or 4 C or D at the same time. Two PP3. Costs about a
tenner. Their cells are good value too.

--
*Who is this General Failure chap anyway - and why is he reading my HD? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Fred" wrote in message
...
Hi,


Is there an intelligent charger than charges batteries individually?

See http://www.batterylogic.co.uk/techno...line-BL700.asp

I have always been fascinated by this but I have no practical experience.

The GP ReCyko batteries sold by CPC claim to hold their charge better over a
long period.


--
Michael Chare

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
D.M.Chapman dmc@puffin. wrote:
Pretty much. A big problem with NiMH is the self drain - they will
got flat on their own with little use.

Not so with any of the power tools I have. And not a problem with toys,
surely?

Seems to be with plenty of the AAs I've got. The eneloop types seem *much*
better. Loads of toys get played with for a bit, then forgotten about for a
few weeks. Batteries often flat when toy rediscovered a month later.

Maybe it's just the crap ones? I'm guessing you have half decent powertools?

Darren

Michael Chare wrote:
"Fred" wrote in message
...
Hi,


Is there an intelligent charger than charges batteries individually?

See http://www.batterylogic.co.uk/techno...line-BL700.asp

I have always been fascinated by this but I have no practical experience.

I have an Innovations (rememeber them?) recharger which was claimed to
recharge standard alkalines as well as NiCds. Works pretty well on both
and I'm sure I've seen something similar recently.

Surprised no-one's mentioned 7dayshop: they have a range of smart chargers.

Douglas de Lacey

In article ,
D.M.Chapman dmc@puffin. wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
D.M.Chapman dmc@puffin. wrote:
Pretty much. A big problem with NiMH is the self drain - they will
got flat on their own with little use.

Not so with any of the power tools I have. And not a problem with toys,
surely?

Seems to be with plenty of the AAs I've got. The eneloop types seem
*much* better. Loads of toys get played with for a bit, then forgotten
about for a few weeks. Batteries often flat when toy rediscovered a
month later.

Maybe it's just the crap ones? I'm guessing you have half decent
powertools?

I suppose they are. But I also use NiMH for this keyboard and mouse and
keep a spare set charged ready for use. They need changing about every 6
weeks - which means the self discharge rate is miles better than 6 weeks.
The cells I use were bought from Lidl.

--
*A bicycle can't stand alone; it is two tired*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Douglas de Lacey wrote:
I have an Innovations (rememeber them?) recharger which was claimed to
recharge standard alkalines as well as NiCds. Works pretty well on both
and I'm sure I've seen something similar recently.

Those claims have been refuted. Unless you 'recharge' the alkaline long
before it is exhausted. In which case there's little point in using them
given how cheap proper rechargeables are now. Unless you need the 1.5
volts.

--
*Two wrongs are only the beginning *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:58:45 +0000, Fred
wrote:

Is there an intelligent charger than charges batteries individually?

Maha C401FS for AA and AAA batteries.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
[Reply-to address valid until it is spammed.]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Douglas de Lacey wrote:
I have an Innovations (rememeber them?) recharger which was claimed to
recharge standard alkalines as well as NiCds. Works pretty well on both
and I'm sure I've seen something similar recently.

Those claims have been refuted. Unless you 'recharge' the alkaline long
before it is exhausted. In which case there's little point in using them
given how cheap proper rechargeables are now. Unless you need the 1.5
volts.


Hi, Dave, I was hoping someone would bite as I was never able to find
any hard data about them. My own experience was entirely heuristic: run
my radios till they stopped working, replace batteries with a recharged
set and recharge the dead ones. Worked fine for years. Remember this was
in the very, very early days of rechargeables, but I still have a coupla
alkalines still working after many recharges. Nowadays I agree there's
virtually no point.

I'd be interested in seeing a more scientific evaluation if you have a
reference lying to hand.

Douglas de Lacey

In article ,
Douglas de Lacey wrote:
Those claims have been refuted. Unless you 'recharge' the alkaline
long before it is exhausted. In which case there's little point in
using them given how cheap proper rechargeables are now. Unless you
need the 1.5 volts.


Hi, Dave, I was hoping someone would bite as I was never able to find
any hard data about them. My own experience was entirely heuristic: run
my radios till they stopped working, replace batteries with a recharged
set and recharge the dead ones. Worked fine for years. Remember this was
in the very, very early days of rechargeables, but I still have a coupla
alkalines still working after many recharges. Nowadays I agree there's
virtually no point.

I'd be interested in seeing a more scientific evaluation if you have a
reference lying to hand.

No - it was my memory of a Which test. They found if an alkaline was
discharged to the point where its performance had noticeably suffered - as
most do with any cell - it could only be recharged to a tiny percent of
its original capacity.

--
*Strip mining prevents forest fires.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Dave Plowman (News)"
saying something like:

I suppose they are. But I also use NiMH for this keyboard and mouse and
keep a spare set charged ready for use. They need changing about every 6
weeks - which means the self discharge rate is miles better than 6 weeks.
The cells I use were bought from Lidl.

Can't get much lower drain than a clock or remotes.
Bog-standard NiMH cells will last six weeks in a Sky remote (in full-on
use) before the 'low battery' warning comes on and then they'll last for
ages further - or until you get fed up being nagged by the stupid nag
screen.
Similarly, b-s nimhs will last for up to six months in a small shelf
clock - and these are ancient ones I keep just for this application.
So, it seems that as long as there is *some* current drain, the ordinary
cells last much longer than just sitting idle.