We have a new kiln rated at 3.6kW. It requires a single-phase supply.
3600/230=15.7A. It has 16A 2P+E plug on it like this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:16A-plug.jpg

In the shed I have a 30A ring with standard 13A dual-gang switched
sockets. Can I use one of these: http://www.toolstation.com/images/li...bbig/47166.jpg
?

If not, what are those connectors for? And what is the best way to
power the kiln?

There is a consumer unit in the shed with space for another breaker.

Many thanks.

JP Coetzee wrote:
We have a new kiln rated at 3.6kW. It requires a single-phase supply.
3600/230=15.7A. It has 16A 2P+E plug on it like this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:16A-plug.jpg

In the shed I have a 30A ring with standard 13A dual-gang switched
sockets. Can I use one of these: http://www.toolstation.com/images/li...bbig/47166.jpg
?

If not, what are those connectors for? And what is the best way to
power the kiln?

There is a consumer unit in the shed with space for another breaker.

Many thanks.




Hi,
The unit you have found is for plugging a caravan in. Something like
this is needed
http://uk.farnell.com/pro-power/sq16...40v/dp/1017260
and fit a 16A breaker and rcd as required.

"JP Coetzee" wrote in message
...
We have a new kiln rated at 3.6kW. It requires a single-phase supply.
3600/230=15.7A. It has 16A 2P+E plug on it like this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:16A-plug.jpg

In the shed I have a 30A ring with standard 13A dual-gang switched
sockets. Can I use one of these:
http://www.toolstation.com/images/li...bbig/47166.jpg
?

If not, what are those connectors for?

Just because a socket is built to carry up to 16 amps - it doesn't have to.
Some people may have low powered equipment with that type of plug and want
to use a 13 amp socket.

Your kiln will blow the 13 amp fuse.

I suggest you wire up a spur (radial) directly to the fuse box. Someone with
more knowledge will advise on cable size and ratings.

What is feeding the shed fuse box? It may already be limited by the circuit
feeding it.

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 01:33:30 -0800 (PST) someone who may be JP
Coetzee wrote this:-

We have a new kiln rated at 3.6kW. It requires a single-phase supply.
3600/230=15.7A. It has 16A 2P+E plug on it like this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:16A-plug.jpg

In the shed I have a 30A ring with standard 13A dual-gang switched
sockets. Can I use one of these: http://www.toolstation.com/images/li...bbig/47166.jpg
?

You can. However, doing so would not be sensible as it is likely to
get rather hot and even if it doesn't cause a fire the plug will not
last that long.

If not, what are those connectors for?

Caravans. They have the those sort of plugs and sockets. Caravan
places also tend to offer leads with a French/German plug on one
end.

They can also be used to connect tools and other low power devices.

And what is the best way to power the kiln?

It is best to connect it via one of these
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/52616/Electrical-Supplies/Industrial/240V/200-250V-MK-Commando-Interlocked-Angled-Socket-2P-E-IP44

Other suppliers are available and this sort of socket is even
available in the larger big orange sheds ("Depots", unless they have
changed the name recently).

The socket could be connected to the ring main, if that is not
already heavily loaded, via a 16A circuit breaker.

There is a consumer unit in the shed with space for another breaker.

However, it would be far better to install a 20A circuit
breaker/fuse in the consumer unit and run a radial circuit to the
socket. You could install more than one of these sockets on the same
circuit, but you will not be able to run more than one kiln.
Multiple sockets arranged in this way are for flexibility.





--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

JP Coetzee
wibbled on Wednesday 03 February 2010 09:33

We have a new kiln rated at 3.6kW. It requires a single-phase supply.
3600/230=15.7A. It has 16A 2P+E plug on it like this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:16A-plug.jpg

In the shed I have a 30A ring with standard 13A dual-gang switched
sockets. Can I use one of these:
http://www.toolstation.com/images/li...bbig/47166.jpg ?

If not, what are those connectors for? And what is the best way to
power the kiln?

There is a consumer unit in the shed with space for another breaker.

Many thanks.

I wouldn't. Your kiln is presenting a *sustained* (I assume, during the
warmup phase) 3.6kW load which is going to cook a 13A plug/socket. Those
adaptors are OK for short high loads, eg 110V transformer supplying some
intermittent use kit.

If you have space in the CU, add a 16A commando socket on a radial to a
16A/20A breaker in the spare way. Job done, properly

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

On 3 Feb, 09:33, JP Coetzee wrote:
We have a new kiln rated at 3.6kW.

Wire a new radial for it.

This is for several reasons:

* You should do. The round blue socket you need should (to the regs)
be fused as a radial, not placed on a ring.

* You need RCD protection on the sockets (never mind the 17th, you
need this for your real safety). You need to avoid RCD protection on
this kiln, as the leakage currents will likely be enough for nuisance
tripping to be a problem. That would be a nuisance on your working
sockets, but even on a separate circuit it can be a nuisance that
ruins pots by dropping out when you're not looking.

* It's shed wiring. Pulling 3kW through existing rings(?) in sheds
that were wired who-knows-when out of who-knows-what has often been a
problem.

When wiring it, use good quality parts (MK) and carefully check the
screw connectors in everything. This includes screw connectors in old
circuits that are involved too. Very few appliances pull over 3kW
continuously for long periods, so if you're likely to have connector
contact heating problems (loose screw terminals start fires), this is
when you're going to get them.

James Salisbury nntp.dsl.pipex.com @invalid
wibbled on Wednesday 03 February 2010 09:41

Hi,
The unit you have found is for plugging a caravan in. Something like
this is needed
http://uk.farnell.com/pro-power/sq16...t-interlocked-
switch-240v/dp/1017260
and fit a 16A breaker and rcd as required.


I should have added that. IEE Regs (17th) preclude fitting unshuttered
sockets in a domestic premises (although I wouldn't worry too much for a
workshop *if* the socket were nice and high) - just in case you have
(visiting) kids...

But the best approach is the interlocked socket James mentions here.
On=can't pull the plug out, and Off=isolated. Can't engage isolator without
inserting a plug. There are other makes too (eg MK), all termed as
interlocked.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 02:03:14 -0800 (PST) someone who may be Andy
Dingley wrote this:-

* You should do. The round blue socket you need should (to the regs)
be fused as a radial, not placed on a ring.

Fixed loads of up to 16A, protected by a suitable fuse or circuit
breaker, can be connected to ring mains. A socket is simply a means
of providing a connection point which does not need someone with
electrical skills to connect/disconnect the equipment.

I'm not saying this is the best way to connect something. In most
circumstances wiring back to the consumer unit is far better, but on
occasions it might be acceptable to connect to the ring.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:52:59 +0000
David Hansen wrote:

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 01:33:30 -0800 (PST) someone who may be JP
Coetzee wrote this:-

We have a new kiln rated at 3.6kW. It requires a single-phase supply.
3600/230=15.7A. It has 16A 2P+E plug on it like this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:16A-plug.jpg

In the shed I have a 30A ring with standard 13A dual-gang switched
sockets. Can I use one of these: http://www.toolstation.com/images/li...bbig/47166.jpg
?

You can. However, doing so would not be sensible as it is likely to
get rather hot and even if it doesn't cause a fire the plug will not
last that long.

If not, what are those connectors for?

Caravans. They have the those sort of plugs and sockets. Caravan
places also tend to offer leads with a French/German plug on one
end.

They can also be used to connect tools and other low power devices.

And what is the best way to power the kiln?

It is best to connect it via one of these
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/52616/Electrical-Supplies/Industrial/240V/200-250V-MK-Commando-Interlocked-Angled-Socket-2P-E-IP44

Other suppliers are available and this sort of socket is even
available in the larger big orange sheds ("Depots", unless they have
changed the name recently).

The socket could be connected to the ring main, if that is not
already heavily loaded, via a 16A circuit breaker.

There is a consumer unit in the shed with space for another breaker.

However, it would be far better to install a 20A circuit
breaker/fuse in the consumer unit and run a radial circuit to the
socket. You could install more than one of these sockets on the same
circuit, but you will not be able to run more than one kiln.
Multiple sockets arranged in this way are for flexibility.

I hope (and pray) you
meant:http://www.screwfix.com/prods/45929/...ocket-32A-240V

as the link's picture is a plug, whatever Screwedfix call it.

R.

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:52:59 +0000, David Hansen
wrote:

It is best to connect it via one of these
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/52616/Electrical-Supplies/Industrial/240V/200-250V-MK-Commando-Interlocked-Angled-Socket-2P-E-IP44

Not if you want to live for long :-) (or they have the wrong
picture).

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/45929/...cket-2P-E-IP44

might be a better bet.

In article
,
JP Coetzee wrote:
We have a new kiln rated at 3.6kW. It requires a single-phase supply.
3600/230=15.7A. It has 16A 2P+E plug on it like this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:16A-plug.jpg

In the shed I have a 30A ring with standard 13A dual-gang switched
sockets. Can I use one of these: http://www.toolstation.com/images/li...bbig/47166.jpg
?

3.6kW works out at 15 amps even at 240 rather than the nominal 230v. At
230v it's approx 15.5 amp. So well over 13 amps which is the absolute
maximum for a 13 amp socket, strangely. ;-) Hence the device not being
fitted with a 13 amp plug...

If not, what are those connectors for?

They are an industrial connector used for all sorts. Machinery etc. Even
caravan site connectors. Anything where 13 amps isn't enough - or you
require a more rugged connector.

And what is the best way to
power the kiln?

There is a consumer unit in the shed with space for another breaker.

If the supply is up to it fit a radial from a new 16 amp breaker to the
correct socket. Ordinary 2.5 TW&E should be fine for a short cable run.
TLC etc will supply a suitable socket for the fitted plug.

But do make sure the supply to the shed is up to it. Which would normally
mean it is greater than 2.5mm.

--
*Pentium wise, pen and paper foolish *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
David Hansen wrote:
Fixed loads of up to 16A, protected by a suitable fuse or circuit
breaker, can be connected to ring mains. A socket is simply a means
of providing a connection point which does not need someone with
electrical skills to connect/disconnect the equipment.

Are you absolutely certain about this? I've never seen a device intended
for this sort of use. FCUs are limited to 13 amps. Indeed it's now frowned
upon to connect any sustained fixed load - like say an immersion - to a
ring circuit, even within the 13 amp limit.

--
*Cover me. I'm changing lanes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
David Hansen wrote:
Fixed loads of up to 16A, protected by a suitable fuse or circuit
breaker, can be connected to ring mains. A socket is simply a means
of providing a connection point which does not need someone with
electrical skills to connect/disconnect the equipment.

Are you absolutely certain about this?

Yes.

I've never seen a device intended
for this sort of use. FCUs are limited to 13 amps. Indeed it's now frowned
upon to connect any sustained fixed load - like say an immersion - to a
ring circuit, even within the 13 amp limit.

Not saying it's a good idea, but it's allowed, with a fuse
or breaker up to 16A.

Connecting the primary electric heating system (space or water)
to a ring is not allowed though. Supplementary heating and
small water heaters are allowed.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:38:03 +0000 someone who may be TheOldFellow
wrote this:-

I hope (and pray) you
meant:http://www.screwfix.com/prods/45929/...ocket-32A-240V

as the link's picture is a plug, whatever Screwedfix call it.

Yes, my mistake.

What I linked to is the sort of thing one would fit to a caravan as
an inlet coupling, into which the lead fits. What you linked to is
what I should have linked to.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

On 03/02/2010 10:45, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:52:59 +0000, David Hansen
wrote:

It is best to connect it via one of these
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/52616/Electrical-Supplies/Industrial/240V/200-250V-MK-Commando-Interlocked-Angled-Socket-2P-E-IP44

Not if you want to live for long :-) (or they have the wrong
picture).

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/45929/...cket-2P-E-IP44

might be a better bet.


That's still the wrong picture and the wrong current rating and almost
certainly the wrong price by a factor of 10. In fact Screwfix have
completely borked all their descriptions of MK commando product. None of
the items they are describing on this page as "interlocked" is in fact
interlocked.

http://www.screwfix.com/cats/A331854...ndustrial/240V


The Pro-Power SQ1663C from Farnell or CPC is made by ILME (Italian) and
not best quality, but OK and good value for money.

MK will be expensive wherever you buy it from. The MK part you would
want is K9610 BLU (IP44) or K9324 BLU (IP67).

Your best bet might be go get one on Ebay, such as item no 320480965653
or 380197360076 or 380199654506

The first item is Mennekes brand, which is top quality. The other
supplier sells Gewiss product, which is another Italian maker and
similar in quality to Ilme.

HTH

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:57:01 +0000 (GMT) someone who may be "Dave
Plowman (News)" wrote this:-

I've never seen a device intended for this sort of use.

There isn't anything specifically made for this sort of thing that I
have seen. However, one could wire a 16A MCB, in a suitable
enclosure, into a ring main and feed fixed equipment from it. For
example
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/32311/Electrical-Supplies/Consumer-Units/Wylex-Consumer-Units/Wylex-IP40-Insulated-Enclosure
can presumably be fitted with an MCB and a blanking plate.

I'm not saying this is a good idea in many circumstances, it takes
up half the rating of the ring, but in some circumstances it may be
acceptable. An example would be a small workshop/garage where the
ring only feeds small hand tools and general equipment like portable
lights, and there is no spare way.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember JP Coetzee
saying something like:

We have a new kiln rated at 3.6kW. It requires a single-phase supply.
3600/230=15.7A. It has 16A 2P+E plug on it like this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:16A-plug.jpg

In the shed I have a 30A ring with standard 13A dual-gang switched
sockets. Can I use one of these: http://www.toolstation.com/images/li...bbig/47166.jpg
?

NO.

If not, what are those connectors for?

Simply to run tools with a 16A plug that happen to draw less than 13A.

And what is the best way to
power the kiln?

Fit a 16A socket as a spur above one of your normal sockets - as it's a
ring, it's good. Or run a radial from the CU.

There is a consumer unit in the shed with space for another breaker.

See above.

On 3 Feb, 10:24, David Hansen wrote:

* You should do. The round blue socket you need should (to the regs)
be fused as a radial, not placed on a ring.

Fixed loads of up to 16A, protected by a suitable fuse or circuit
breaker, can be connected to ring mains.

Agreed, although I'm unsure of the 17th's position on this.

However I don't regard this as a practical option here.

Firstly it's "work" to do it. We're talking about a fused connection
to the existing ring and a spur to the blue socket, not just sticking
the blue socket straight onto the ring. Now if this workshop is
anything like mine in layout (a house-sized CU by the door), that's
nearly as much work as running a whole radial back to the CU. That
also gives me fresh cable, in my choice of size, with no other loads
on it.

Secondly (maybe first) it's important to split the RCD protection.

Thirdly diversity is hard in a workshop - the planer auto-starts the
dust extractor, the plasma cutter uses the compressor too. That's
multi-kW loads kicking in in pairs. Some of the assumptions underlying
the design of the domestic ring just aren't applicable here.

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:53:51 +0000 (GMT) someone who may be "Dave
Plowman (News)" wrote this:-

If the supply is up to it fit a radial from a new 16 amp breaker to the
correct socket.

If I was doing it myself I might, for a bit of fun, wire it up to a
French style socket and fit a suitable plug [1] [2]. Provided that
the conditions in the garage were not such that a "BS4343"
connection is needed for robustness.

Obviously switching and protection would need to be double pole,
including those in the kiln but that is presumably not UK/ROI
specific and any new one would presumably need to be suitable for
use anywhere in the EU.


[1] making sure both are rated at 16A, some are rated at 10-16A
depending on approval body.

[2] the French style one is better in my view than the German style,
where the earth arrangement on many relies on a rivet to hold the
earth connection, which is designed to twist slightly, to the earth
terminal block. The Danish version is the best of all, but will
eventually be replaced with the French version for uniformity.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

TheOldFellow
wibbled on Wednesday 03 February 2010 10:38

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:52:59 +0000
David Hansen wrote:




It is best to connect it via one of these
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/52616/Electrical-
Supplies/Industrial/240V/200-250V-MK-Commando-Interlocked-Angled-Socket-2P-
E-IP44



I hope (and pray) you
meant:http://www.screwfix.com/prods/45929/Electrical-
Supplies/Industrial/240V/Industrial-Socket-32A-240V

:-)

Except your's is a 32A and not interlocked

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 03:57:56 -0800 (PST) someone who may be Andy
Dingley wrote this:-

Agreed, although I'm unsure of the 17th's position on this.

Still allowed, according to John Whitfield.

However I don't regard this as a practical option here.

I have given an example of where it may be acceptable in another
post. Whether those circumstances apply in this case I have no idea.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:52:49 +0000 someone who may be Grimly
Curmudgeon wrote this:-

Fit a 16A socket as a spur above one of your normal sockets - as it's a
ring, it's good. Or run a radial from the CU.

Only if the spur is suitably protected with a 16A circuit breaker.

If it isn't then it doesn't comply with the 17th, or indeed the 16th
or IIRC the 15th Edition. No idea about earlier versions.

As space is available in the consumer unit then the best option is
to wire it back to there. I might add a socket or two more for
flexibility and possible other uses.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

* It's shed wiring. Pulling 3kW through existing rings(?) in sheds
that were wired who-knows-when out of who-knows-what has often been a
problem.

House CU with dedicated 40A RCD to shed -- buried 15 metre 40A
armoured cable spur -- CU in the shed with 30A RCD socket ring and
10A RCD lighting ring. Put in on 31st December 2004.

I'll put in a new breaker. What is an "interlocking" socket?

I can't find a suitable downward-pointing, switched socket anywhere.
Can anyone help?

Thanks for all your help

On 3 Feb, 10:20, Tim Watts wrote:

I should have added that. IEE Regs (17th) preclude fitting unshuttered
sockets in a domestic premises

Is that really the case for "domestic premises", meaning the whole
address? Or can you use the usual cop-outs about "workshops" and
"competent persons"?

(Assuming the kiln isn't in the lounge or the kitchen. I know at least
one that is.)

On 3 Feb, 12:02, David Hansen wrote:

The Danish version is the best of all, but will
eventually be replaced with the French version for uniformity.

Replaced? Although the French type E (where the socket has a
protruding earth pin) has been _permitted_ for a couple of years now
(mostly as a convenience to European foreigners with hybrid E/F
plugs), is there any intention to actually replace the Danish Knudsen
style? AIUI, they deliberately haven't permitted type F sockets, as
there's a problem where older Danish plugs could then be jammed into
them. This doesn't sound like they're trying to remove their legacy
kit.

BS1363 are not designed to supply 16A nominal for the duration
required by a kiln, it will damage plug, socket and wiring.

If there are spare ways in the workshop CU...
- Fit 16A RCBO (or 16A MCB if RCD supplied)
- Fit an Interlocked 16A BS4343 230V Socket
- Supply it by 2.5mm cable

If there are no spare ways in the workshop CU...
- Fit a larger CU
- Follow the above


Source of Interlocked 16A BS4343 230V Socket...
- www.discount-electrical.co.uk
- Gewiss Eurobloc Blue Compact Fixed Interlocked Socket 2P+E IP55 16A
230V
- GW66448
- £12.54 ex VAT, plus about £7 carriage, plus VAT

Perfectly ok, cheaper than Mennekes/MK etc which will be £80-140.


Why Interlocked...
- BS4343 are unshuttered sockets, that means a child can easily poke a
nail into a live contact unlike a domestic BS1363 shuttered sockets
- Anyone can unplug under load which will flash (arc) on 32A-63A-125A
- Interlocked means the power can not be turned on without a plug in,
and the plug can not be removed without turning the power off
- The downside is the cost, however the Geweiss above is reasonably
priced


There are BS4343 Interlocked Sockets which have a DIN rail so you can
fit a 16A MCB (or 16A RCBO or 16A MCB & RCD) permitting supply from
any other suitable final circuit - but they are physically large and
expensive. Supplying a 16A heating device off a ring is less than
ideal, although for a workshop without several fixed power tools on
the ring it should be ok. Just a DIN rail Interlocked Socket is an
expensive solution - cheaper to change a CU enclosure if no space.
NOTE most waterproof CU (eg, MK) do not take RCBO - you have to use
RCD with MCB, conventional non-waterproof CU (MK Sentry) will take
RCBO without problem.

Andy Dingley
wibbled on Wednesday 03 February 2010 12:50

On 3 Feb, 10:20, Tim Watts wrote:

I should have added that. IEE Regs (17th) preclude fitting unshuttered
sockets in a domestic premises

Is that really the case for "domestic premises", meaning the whole
address? Or can you use the usual cop-outs about "workshops" and
"competent persons"?

(Assuming the kiln isn't in the lounge or the kitchen. I know at least
one that is.)

I wouldn't like to comment on a strict interpretation - I'm not *that*
qualified.

Common sense I think is the order of the day.

It's clear the regs are aimed at the general case of little kiddies and
dead-from-the-neck-up people poking things in the sockets.

If that clearly can't be the case[1] or (better IMO) if the sockets are up
high enough, I don't think it's likely to be much of a problem as I well
imagine you already concluded. Regs aren't mandatory anyway - justifiable
exceptions...

[1] I'm suspecting if any little sprogs or the braindead enter your workshop
unsupervised/untrained, they'll find more ways to chop themselves to bits
than electrocute themselves???

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
David Hansen wrote:
Fixed loads of up to 16A, protected by a suitable fuse or circuit
breaker, can be connected to ring mains. A socket is simply a means
of providing a connection point which does not need someone with
electrical skills to connect/disconnect the equipment.

Are you absolutely certain about this?

Yes.

I've never seen a device intended for this sort of use. FCUs are
limited to 13 amps. Indeed it's now frowned upon to connect any
sustained fixed load - like say an immersion - to a ring circuit, even
within the 13 amp limit.

Not saying it's a good idea, but it's allowed, with a fuse
or breaker up to 16A.

Connecting the primary electric heating system (space or water)
to a ring is not allowed though. Supplementary heating and
small water heaters are allowed.

Then I'd say a kiln would come under this in practice if not in name -
since it's likely to be on for long periods.

--
*Forget the Joneses, I keep us up with the Simpsons.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Tim Watts
wibbled on Wednesday 03 February 2010 13:13

Andy Dingley
wibbled on Wednesday 03 February 2010 12:50

On 3 Feb, 10:20, Tim Watts wrote:

I should have added that. IEE Regs (17th) preclude fitting unshuttered
sockets in a domestic premises

Is that really the case for "domestic premises", meaning the whole
address? Or can you use the usual cop-outs about "workshops" and
"competent persons"?

(Assuming the kiln isn't in the lounge or the kitchen. I know at least
one that is.)

I wouldn't like to comment on a strict interpretation - I'm not *that*
qualified.

Common sense I think is the order of the day.

It's clear the regs are aimed at the general case of little kiddies and
dead-from-the-neck-up people poking things in the sockets.

If that clearly can't be the case[1] or (better IMO) if the sockets are up
high enough, I don't think it's likely to be much of a problem as I well
imagine you already concluded. Regs aren't mandatory anyway - justifiable
exceptions...

But I'll add, as the OP is starting out to install new kit, I would strongly
recommend interlocked commando sockets - this is about as bomb proof as it
gets...

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:13:19 +0000 someone who may be Tim Watts
wrote this:-

I'm suspecting if any little sprogs or the braindead enter your workshop
unsupervised/untrained, they'll find more ways to chop themselves to bits
than electrocute themselves???

And rather more likely ways to damage themselves.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

But I'll add, as the OP is starting out to install new kit, I would strongly
recommend interlocked commando sockets - this is about as bomb proof as it
gets...

I will put in a new RCD + spur + single socket. What does
"interlocked" mean?

In article
,
JP Coetzee wrote:
I can't find a suitable downward-pointing, switched socket anywhere.
Can anyone help?

They are certainly available as I've seen them in TV studios, etc. Give
TLC a ring - they are good at getting 'specials' in for you. But I'd guess
an angled unswitched would bolt onto a vertical switched one if you could
source both locally.

--
*How about "never"? Is "never" good for you?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 04:33:08 -0800 (PST) someone who may be JP
Coetzee wrote this:-

I can't find a suitable downward-pointing, switched socket anywhere.

You are unlikely to find one, unless it is also interlocked. If it
is easily accessible fit one of them, if not fit a separate switch
somewhere suitable and a plain socket.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 05:03:34 -0800 (PST) someone who may be Andy
Dingley wrote this:-

The Danish version is the best of all, but will
eventually be replaced with the French version for uniformity.

Replaced? Although the French type E (where the socket has a
protruding earth pin) has been _permitted_ for a couple of years now
(mostly as a convenience to European foreigners with hybrid E/F
plugs), is there any intention to actually replace the Danish Knudsen
style?

French style sockets have been permitted since July 2008 I gather.

There is no intention to rip out Danish style sockets. However, it
isn't just for the convenience of foreigners. Danes come back home
with appliances bought elsewhere, which are fitted with a
French/German style plug. Many don't replace this with a Danish
style plug, as they should, but plug in. Obviously much portable
equipment is Class II and will come fitted with a 2.5A or 16A plug
with no earth connection, in which case there is no problem as
either version will safely fit the sockets.

I imagine that eventually the French style socket will become the
most common sort and the Danish sort will die out altogether. This
won't be for decades though.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 05:35:06 -0800 (PST) someone who may be Scrump
wrote this:-

What does "interlocked" mean?

It was explained in another post. To withdraw the plug the supply
must be switched off. This prevents someone unplugging it on load.
Arcs from 16A equipment are not too bad, but this sort of socket
goes up to 125A, which would be much more impressive if not somewhat
frightening.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

What does "interlocked" mean?

It was explained in another post. To withdraw the plug the supply
must be switched off. This prevents someone unplugging it on load.
Arcs from 16A equipment are not too bad, but this sort of socket
goes up to 125A, which would be much more impressive if not somewhat
frightening.


So if I just fit an RCD and an interlocked socket, I would have to
turn the supply off at the RCD to withdraw the plug? It's not enough
to turn off the switch on the kiln?

"Scrump" wrote in message
...
What does "interlocked" mean?

It was explained in another post. To withdraw the plug the supply
must be switched off. This prevents someone unplugging it on load.
Arcs from 16A equipment are not too bad, but this sort of socket
goes up to 125A, which would be much more impressive if not somewhat
frightening.


So if I just fit an RCD and an interlocked socket, I would have to
turn the supply off at the RCD to withdraw the plug? It's not enough
to turn off the switch on the kiln?

I think the last poster has the wrong sort of interlock in mind.

The idea is to have a switch on the socket such that it can only be on when
a plug is in and it has to be off to remove the plug.
This is to stop things being poked into live holes.

What does "interlocked" mean?

It was explained in another post. To withdraw the plug the supply
must be switched off. This prevents someone unplugging it on load.
Arcs from 16A equipment are not too bad, but this sort of socket
goes up to 125A, which would be much more impressive if not somewhat
frightening.

So if I just fit an RCD and an interlocked socket, I would have to
turn the supply off at the RCD to withdraw the plug? It's not enough
to turn off the switch on the kiln?

On Feb 3, 2:21*pm, JP Coetzee wrote:
So if I just fit an RCD and an interlocked socket, I would have to
turn the supply off at the RCD to withdraw the plug? It's not enough
to turn off the switch on the kiln?

Post a picture of your workshop/shed CU (Consumer Unit).

- You need to add a 16A circuit breaker
- You need to run cable to a 16A 230V Interlocked Socket
- You need to fit the 16A 230V Interlocked Socket to the wall

An Interlocked Socket is simply this:
- 16A Round Socket
- Lever or Rotary Switch

The Plug can not be *physically* removed from the Socket unless the
Switch is OFF.
The Switch can not *physically* be turned ON until a Plug is inserted
into the Socket.
The Interlock is a mechanical device for safety, you do not need to
touch RCD, Circuit Breakers, Fuses, etc.


I notice Discount Electrical do not show a picture of the Interlocked
Socket.
The compact socket looks like the following (joint the link back up in
notepad):

http://cgi.ebay.it/GEWISS-COMBIBLOC-...209224001r6397

They do a non-angled version on the www.discount-electrical.co.uk
website, just search for 16A 230V Interlocked Socket - I believe there
are 2-3 of them (probably a vertical, horizontal and angled compact
version). You need a switched 16A socket anyway just in case of any
problem and price wise £12-20 is as good as you are going to get.

An Interlocked Socket is simply this:
- 16A Round Socket
- Lever or Rotary Switch

Ah OK. The reason I ask is that some sockets I've seen called
"Interlocked" don't seem to have an integral switch.

On Feb 3, 2:33 pm, "js.b1" wrote:
The compact socket looks like the following (joint the link back up in notepad):

http://cgi.ebay.it/GEWISS-COMBIBLOC-...-16A-230V-GW66...

That's very neat. Is the switch the black bar across the top of the
socket?