Boiler service
 

Go on, our central heating system is ready for a service.
What do I ask the gas safe registered people?

how much it costs? (Obvious question ...)

(And what if it needs something replacing, I assume I'd need to
compare how much their rates are for things)

Are they all much of a muchness or is it worth asking if they deal
with our specific brand?

ta muchly.
--
http://www.Christmasfreebies.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

Boiler service
 

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:32:43 +0000, mogga
wrote:

Go on, our central heating system is ready for a service.
What do I ask the gas safe registered people?

how much it costs? (Obvious question ...)

(And what if it needs something replacing, I assume I'd need to
compare how much their rates are for things)

Are they all much of a muchness or is it worth asking if they deal
with our specific brand?

ta muchly.

Ask yourself if it needs servicing ..Is it doing anything it shouldn't
be or not doing what it should .

Boiler service
 

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:32:43 +0000, mogga wrote:

Are they all much of a muchness or is it worth asking if they deal
with our specific brand?

I'd do my homework and find out what make & model of boiler I have and
when it was last serviced, then call a few local installers and ask what
they recommend you need done and how much it'd cost.

Personally when I get these sorts of calls I try to sort out the 'worried
well' from the real problem cases. E.g. if the boiler is 5 years old and
they've had it serviced meticulously ever since it was installed and are
now worried that it might run a few days over the anniversary I'll
politely decline as I'm up to my ears in repairing broken down systems and
installing new boilers for folks whose ones have broken down.

OTOH if it's a 30-yo conventional flue boiler that hasn't been looked at in
living memory that's different. And if they're getting headaches or funny
smells then I'll probably say to call 0800 111 999 and the nice people
there will deal with it for you, instantly and for free :-|


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Extreme moderate

Boiler service
 

On 28 Nov 2009 16:11:19 GMT, YAPH wrote:

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:32:43 +0000, mogga wrote:

Are they all much of a muchness or is it worth asking if they deal
with our specific brand?

I'd do my homework and find out what make & model of boiler I have and
when it was last serviced, then call a few local installers and ask what
they recommend you need done and how much it'd cost.


It's a little over two and a half years old and has never been
serviced ... it's working fine - I just feel it should probably have a
service. Does that make me a worried well? :)




Personally when I get these sorts of calls I try to sort out the 'worried
well' from the real problem cases. E.g. if the boiler is 5 years old and
they've had it serviced meticulously ever since it was installed and are
now worried that it might run a few days over the anniversary I'll
politely decline as I'm up to my ears in repairing broken down systems and
installing new boilers for folks whose ones have broken down.

OTOH if it's a 30-yo conventional flue boiler that hasn't been looked at in
living memory that's different. And if they're getting headaches or funny
smells then I'll probably say to call 0800 111 999 and the nice people
there will deal with it for you, instantly and for free :-|
--
http://www.Christmasfreebies.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

Boiler service
 

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:31:52 +0000, mogga
wrote:

On 28 Nov 2009 16:11:19 GMT, YAPH wrote:

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:32:43 +0000, mogga wrote:

Are they all much of a muchness or is it worth asking if they deal
with our specific brand?

I'd do my homework and find out what make & model of boiler I have and
when it was last serviced, then call a few local installers and ask what
they recommend you need done and how much it'd cost.


It's a little over two and a half years old and has never been
serviced ... it's working fine - I just feel it should probably have a
service. Does that make me a worried well? :)




I've had my Alpha almost 3 years and it's had one service and 2 leaks
repaired (under warranty) .The only reason I got it serviced was
because I believed mistakenly that this was required for the warranty
but Alpha said it is not necessary . What the guy did for the service
I could have done myself .

Boiler service
 

In article , YAPH
writes
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:32:43 +0000, mogga wrote:

Are they all much of a muchness or is it worth asking if they deal
with our specific brand?

I'd do my homework and find out what make & model of boiler I have and
when it was last serviced, then call a few local installers and ask what
they recommend you need done and how much it'd cost.

Personally when I get these sorts of calls I try to sort out the 'worried
well' from the real problem cases. E.g. if the boiler is 5 years old and
they've had it serviced meticulously ever since it was installed and are
now worried that it might run a few days over the anniversary I'll
politely decline as I'm up to my ears in repairing broken down systems and
installing new boilers for folks whose ones have broken down.

OTOH if it's a 30-yo conventional flue boiler that hasn't been looked at in
living memory that's different. And if they're getting headaches or funny
smells then I'll probably say to call 0800 111 999 and the nice people
there will deal with it for you, instantly and for free :-|

I was going to suggest to the o/p that he does an analysis of the flue
gasses to see if it's burning ok. Proper analysers are not really
available to the amateur of course but I've heard tell of chemical based
test kits (a bit like a litmus test) to check the CO (or is it O) levels
in the exhaust gas. Can't find refs for them anywhere now, have you come
across them perhaps?
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

Boiler service
 

"Usenet Nutter" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:31:52 +0000, mogga
wrote:

On 28 Nov 2009 16:11:19 GMT, YAPH wrote:

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:32:43 +0000, mogga wrote:

Are they all much of a muchness or is it worth asking if they deal
with our specific brand?

I'd do my homework and find out what make & model of boiler I have and
when it was last serviced, then call a few local installers and ask what
they recommend you need done and how much it'd cost.


It's a little over two and a half years old and has never been
serviced ... it's working fine - I just feel it should probably have a
service. Does that make me a worried well? :)




I've had my Alpha almost 3 years and it's had one service and 2 leaks
repaired (under warranty) .The only reason I got it serviced was
because I believed mistakenly that this was required for the warranty
but Alpha said it is not necessary .

"What the guy did for the service I could have done myself "

he probably didn't service it correctly as the average man in the street
(not meaning to be disrespectful) wouldn't have the equipment..

Boiler service
 

On Nov 28, 7:05*pm, "Bob" wrote:
"What the guy did for the service I could have done myself "
he probably didn't service it correctly as the average man in the street
(not meaning to be disrespectful) wouldn't have the equipment..- Hide quoted text -

Vis., gas analyser is £1500 plus knowing how to use it re correct the
boiler - some boilers are "off the mark".


Most important service of all is to put £150/yr away towards future
replacement. Then when it DOES crop up the problem is somewhat
mitigated.

For a relative I put 20/month into a corporate bond fund - biggest
drawdown was 25% in the ABS (CDO swaps) blowup, otherwise steady 4-6%+
a year growth. A better fund would be Cazenove Actively Managed
Cautious (which despite its name can go gold, oil, hedge fund,
derivatives and so on in a reasonably well risk averse manner - 12%
drawdown in the same period yet delivered the return of typical
aggressive global equity funds which dropped 48%, vis., very good risk
adjusted return.). The paperwork sits in the bank so yes they have to
pay £15 to access it, so it DOES only get used to eliminate the not
uncommon "boiler has blownup, put 2k on credit cards which never gets
cleared so actually costs 4-5k".

Boiler service
 

On Nov 28, 9:32*am, mogga wrote:
Go on, our central heating system is ready for a service.
What do I ask the gas safe registered people?

how much it costs? (Obvious question ...)

(And what if it needs something replacing, I assume I'd need to
compare how much their rates are for things)

Are they all much of a muchness or is it worth asking if they deal
with our specific brand?

ta muchly.
--http://www.Christmasfreebies.co.ukhttp://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

How old is it, just calling in anyone can open yourself to a crook.
How is flame color, what is the water level, have you oiled the pump.
I check everything myself first, there is very little to go wrong or
need yearly maintenance. Try to get someone recomended from a friend
that knows boilers themselves, Ive been burned or they attempt to burn
me maby times, but I know my system and can spot a crook. www.heatinghelp.com
is a US group of just boiler pros where you can ask questions.

Boiler service
 

In message , mogga
writes
On 28 Nov 2009 16:11:19 GMT, YAPH wrote:

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:32:43 +0000, mogga wrote:

Are they all much of a muchness or is it worth asking if they deal
with our specific brand?

I'd do my homework and find out what make & model of boiler I have and
when it was last serviced, then call a few local installers and ask what
they recommend you need done and how much it'd cost.


It's a little over two and a half years old and has never been
serviced ... it's working fine - I just feel it should probably have a
service. Does that make me a worried well? :)

Unless there's something wrong or it's written into the warranty
contract, I would leave it alone then




--
geoff

Boiler service
 

In article ,
"js.b1" writes:
On Nov 28, 7:05*pm, "Bob" wrote:
"What the guy did for the service I could have done myself "
he probably didn't service it correctly as the average man in the street
(not meaning to be disrespectful) wouldn't have the equipment..- Hide quoted text -
Vis., gas analyser is £1500 plus knowing how to use it re correct the

Mine costs £270 at todays prices (was less when I actually
bought it about 6 years ago), plus about £200 every 2-3 years
to change the gas cells and recalibrate it.

I've no idea if gas installers actually know how to use them.
Most didn't have one when I bought mine (which was one reason
I bought one). Someone posted the results here which their
engineer left with them, and I interpreted them - I could see
the flue analyser hadn't been used correctly from the results
(boiler was cold).

There are two quite distinct uses with gas appliances.

The standard UK gas service check is that the CO/CO2 ratio in
the flue gas is 0.004. Otherwise, the boiler needs cleaning.
If the ratio is 0.008, then it's in a really dire state and
regarded as dangerous. This is independant of boiler. The highest
value I've ever seen on any boiler I've measured is 0.00078 on a
Potterton Suprima which hadn't been serviced for 7 years (still
5 times better than the point at which British Gas would actually
disassemble and clean the burners, combustion chamber, etc).

The second is if you're actually commissioning or resetting the
mixture. In this case, you need the figures from the manufacturer
as they're model dependant, and as they often aren't even in
the installation/service manual and neither are the instructions
to adjust the mixture, I presume this is something gas fitters
don't normally do.

You can also use them to measure CO level in a room, the amount of
oxygen you breath out, and all sorts of other interesting things.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Boiler service
 

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 21:54:09 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Mine costs £270 at todays prices (was less when I actually
bought it about 6 years ago), plus about £200 every 2-3 years
to change the gas cells and recalibrate it.

Mine (Anton Sprint V2) cost over £600 with the extra probes but no printer
in March, and will cost a small fortune to keep calibrated and sensors
replaced to schedule (but a slightly smaller fortune than the market
alternatives, according to the folks I bought it from).

I've no idea if gas installers actually know how to use them.

There's now a specific competency (CPA1 - Combustion Performance Analyser)
which I chose to do as an extra along with my core gas safety + boilers +
cookers + gas fires + water heaters when I had to renew my qualifications
(which we have to do every 5 years) a year ago last summer. TBH it
(CPA1) is pretty mickey mouse.

Most didn't have one when I bought mine (which was one reason
I bought one). Someone posted the results here which their
engineer left with them, and I interpreted them - I could see
the flue analyser hadn't been used correctly from the results
(boiler was cold).

There are two quite distinct uses with gas appliances.

The standard UK gas service check is that the CO/CO2 ratio in
the flue gas is 0.004. Otherwise, the boiler needs cleaning.
If the ratio is 0.008, then it's in a really dire state and
regarded as dangerous.

Incorrect: 0.004 is the trigger level at which you should service the
boiler. If, after servicing the boiler, the ratio is under 0.008 it's OK
to put back into service (sic).

The second is if you're actually commissioning or resetting the
mixture. In this case, you need the figures from the manufacturer
as they're model dependant, and as they often aren't even in
the installation/service manual and neither are the instructions
to adjust the mixture, I presume this is something gas fitters
don't normally do.

On the boilers I install (Worcester-Bosch) I don't have to. I daresay if I
dealt with Kestons I would, but life's too short and there's enough pain
in it anyway ;-).

You can also use them to measure CO level in a room, the amount of
oxygen you breath out, and all sorts of other interesting things.

Though in the CPA1 training we are taught that we are not to do that: if
we suspect a CO hazard we should call in the Gas Emergency Service
Provider (was TRANSCO for natural gas) - who apparently are not trained in
this stuff either :-(

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

The rain, it rains upon the Just, and on the Unjust fella
But more upon the Just because the Unjust's got the Just's umbrella

Boiler service
 

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:53:21 -0800, ransley wrote:

How is flame color, what is the water level, have you oiled the pump.

If you're oiling your pumps I suspect you need a competent person's help,
at least on this side of the pond!

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Extreme moderate

Boiler service
 

"Usenet Nutter" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:31:52 +0000, mogga
wrote:

On 28 Nov 2009 16:11:19 GMT, YAPH wrote:

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:32:43 +0000, mogga wrote:

Are they all much of a muchness or is it worth asking if they deal
with our specific brand?

I'd do my homework and find out what make & model of boiler I have and
when it was last serviced, then call a few local installers and ask what
they recommend you need done and how much it'd cost.


It's a little over two and a half years old and has never been
serviced ... it's working fine - I just feel it should probably have a
service. Does that make me a worried well? :)




I've had my Alpha almost 3 years and it's had one service and 2 leaks
repaired (under warranty) .The only reason I got it serviced was
because I believed mistakenly that this was required for the warranty
but Alpha said it is not necessary . What the guy did for the service
I could have done myself .

Not required for warranty? Is this fairly standard?
Mine is a WB32CDi with 5 year warranty, the installer said he'd service it
every year for £60.
He's supposed to be the bees-knees, weird how he'd never heard of the word
hysteresis.

Boiler service
 

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:31:52 +0000, mogga wrote:

It's a little over two and a half years old and has never been
serviced ... it's working fine - I just feel it should probably have a
service. Does that make me a worried well? :)

Frankly yes ... probably: are you having any issues with it?

OTOH one of the things I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that, if
it's a combi and if you're in a hard water area, there should be a scale
inhibitor fitted to the system. If you have a phosphor-dosing system such
as a Combimate or a canister type (http://yaph.co.uk/limescale) then that
should be refilled or replaced, which you may need or want an engineer to
do. If it has an electrolytic, electronic or magnetic type fitted then I'd
just put the money aside to save up for having it descaled and a proper
scale inhibitor fitted later :-)



--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

The ant has made himself illustrious through constant industry industrious
So what? Would you be calm and placid if you were full of formic acid?

Boiler service
 

In article ,
YAPH writes:
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 21:54:09 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Mine costs £270 at todays prices (was less when I actually
bought it about 6 years ago), plus about £200 every 2-3 years
to change the gas cells and recalibrate it.

Mine (Anton Sprint V2) cost over £600 with the extra probes but no printer
in March, and will cost a small fortune to keep calibrated and sensors
replaced to schedule (but a slightly smaller fortune than the market
alternatives, according to the folks I bought it from).

Is it now mandatory for you to have one?

I noticed my Kane calibration certificate is valid for 2 years.
It was only one year when I first bought the unit (perhaps to allow
for up to a year in stock). Oxygen cell died about 2 years 1 month
after a recalibration, but I spun that one out to 3 years, and put
up with using just the CO cell for the last year.

Rather annoyingly, last recalibration, it came back with a broken
battery compartment, but I didn't use it or notice until too long
afterwards to complain. It's still usable, and next time it should
get fixed (it's a "fix everything wrong with it" service).

I've no idea if gas installers actually know how to use them.

There's now a specific competency (CPA1 - Combustion Performance Analyser)
which I chose to do as an extra along with my core gas safety + boilers +
cookers + gas fires + water heaters when I had to renew my qualifications
(which we have to do every 5 years) a year ago last summer. TBH it
(CPA1) is pretty mickey mouse.

Does that centre on measuring safety, or measuring combustion
efficiency, or both?

Most didn't have one when I bought mine (which was one reason
I bought one). Someone posted the results here which their
engineer left with them, and I interpreted them - I could see
the flue analyser hadn't been used correctly from the results
(boiler was cold).

There are two quite distinct uses with gas appliances.

The standard UK gas service check is that the CO/CO2 ratio in
the flue gas is 0.004. Otherwise, the boiler needs cleaning.
If the ratio is 0.008, then it's in a really dire state and
regarded as dangerous.

Incorrect: 0.004 is the trigger level at which you should service the
boiler. If, after servicing the boiler, the ratio is under 0.008 it's OK
to put back into service (sic).

Well, I think that's basically what I said, not very well though.

The second is if you're actually commissioning or resetting the
mixture. In this case, you need the figures from the manufacturer
as they're model dependant, and as they often aren't even in
the installation/service manual and neither are the instructions
to adjust the mixture, I presume this is something gas fitters
don't normally do.

On the boilers I install (Worcester-Bosch) I don't have to. I daresay if I
dealt with Kestons I would, but life's too short and there's enough pain
in it anyway ;-).

Keston don't do mine (Celcius 25) anymore anyway.
It does slowly drift from optimum, but you could probably leave it
several years before it was really far enough out to worry about.
The main problem was with the supposedly factory preset mixture
being miles off in the first place. Once I'd properly set it for
the first time, the CO/CO2 ratio has always been at least 10 times
better than required. It's only fine tuning the mixture to Keston's
optimum which drifts slightly.

You can also use them to measure CO level in a room, the amount of
oxygen you breath out, and all sorts of other interesting things.

Though in the CPA1 training we are taught that we are not to do that: if
we suspect a CO hazard we should call in the Gas Emergency Service
Provider (was TRANSCO for natural gas) - who apparently are not trained in
this stuff either :-(

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Boiler service
 

In message
,
js.b1 writes
On Nov 28, 7:05*pm, "Bob" wrote:
"What the guy did for the service I could have done myself "
he probably didn't service it correctly as the average man in the street
(not meaning to be disrespectful) wouldn't have the equipment..- Hide
quoted text -

Vis., gas analyser is £1500

Oh yes, every fitter has one of those - NOT

plus knowing how to use it

You just hit the flaw of the argument

re correct the
boiler - some boilers are "off the mark".





Most important service of all is to put £150/yr away towards future
replacement. Then when it DOES crop up the problem is somewhat
mitigated.

For a relative I put 20/month into a corporate bond fund - biggest
drawdown was 25% in the ABS (CDO swaps) blowup, otherwise steady 4-6%+
a year growth. A better fund would be Cazenove Actively Managed
Cautious (which despite its name can go gold, oil, hedge fund,
derivatives and so on in a reasonably well risk averse manner - 12%
drawdown in the same period yet delivered the return of typical
aggressive global equity funds which dropped 48%, vis., very good risk
adjusted return.). The paperwork sits in the bank so yes they have to
pay £15 to access it, so it DOES only get used to eliminate the not
uncommon "boiler has blownup, put 2k on credit cards which never gets
cleared so actually costs 4-5k".

--
geoff

Boiler service
 

In message , brass monkey
writes

"Usenet Nutter" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:31:52 +0000, mogga
wrote:

On 28 Nov 2009 16:11:19 GMT, YAPH wrote:

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:32:43 +0000, mogga wrote:

Are they all much of a muchness or is it worth asking if they deal
with our specific brand?

I'd do my homework and find out what make & model of boiler I have and
when it was last serviced, then call a few local installers and ask what
they recommend you need done and how much it'd cost.


It's a little over two and a half years old and has never been
serviced ... it's working fine - I just feel it should probably have a
service. Does that make me a worried well? :)




I've had my Alpha almost 3 years and it's had one service and 2 leaks
repaired (under warranty) .The only reason I got it serviced was
because I believed mistakenly that this was required for the warranty
but Alpha said it is not necessary . What the guy did for the service
I could have done myself .

Not required for warranty? Is this fairly standard?
Mine is a WB32CDi with 5 year warranty, the installer said he'd service it
every year for £60.


He's supposed to be the bees-knees,

Where did you get that from ?


weird how he'd never heard of the word
hysteresis.



--
geoff

Boiler service
 

In message
,
ransley writes
On Nov 28, 9:32*am, mogga wrote:
Go on, our central heating system is ready for a service.
What do I ask the gas safe registered people?

how much it costs? (Obvious question ...)

(And what if it needs something replacing, I assume I'd need to
compare how much their rates are for things)

Are they all much of a muchness or is it worth asking if they deal
with our specific brand?

ta muchly.
--http://www.Christmasfreebies.co.ukhttp://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

How old is it, just calling in anyone can open yourself to a crook.
How is flame color, what is the water level,

You mean water pressure

have you oiled the pump.

CH pumps run on a ceramic bearing lubricated by water

I check everything myself first, there is very little to go wrong or
need yearly maintenance. Try to get someone recomended from a friend
that knows boilers themselves,

A friend who knows boilers ?

The problem with fitters is that they can be the one eyed man in the
land of the blind. I often get "he was recommended to us by a
neighbour".

Part of the problem is that people tend to be determined to be ignorant
and it doesn't take much to sound like an expert to a hairdresser


Ive been burned or they attempt to burn
me maby times, but I know my system and can spot a crook. www.heatinghelp.com
is a US group of just boiler pros where you can ask questions.

--
geoff

Boiler service
 

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , brass monkey
writes

"Usenet Nutter" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:31:52 +0000, mogga
wrote:

On 28 Nov 2009 16:11:19 GMT, YAPH wrote:

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:32:43 +0000, mogga wrote:

Are they all much of a muchness or is it worth asking if they deal
with our specific brand?

I'd do my homework and find out what make & model of boiler I have and
when it was last serviced, then call a few local installers and ask
what
they recommend you need done and how much it'd cost.


It's a little over two and a half years old and has never been
serviced ... it's working fine - I just feel it should probably have a
service. Does that make me a worried well? :)




I've had my Alpha almost 3 years and it's had one service and 2 leaks
repaired (under warranty) .The only reason I got it serviced was
because I believed mistakenly that this was required for the warranty
but Alpha said it is not necessary . What the guy did for the service
I could have done myself .

Not required for warranty? Is this fairly standard?
Mine is a WB32CDi with 5 year warranty, the installer said he'd service it
every year for £60.


He's supposed to be the bees-knees,

Where did you get that from ?

From his own copper-monkeys so maybe a tad biased.

Boiler service
 

YAPH wrote:
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 21:54:09 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:


Mine costs £270 at todays prices (was less when I actually
bought it about 6 years ago), plus about £200 every 2-3 years
to change the gas cells and recalibrate it.


Mine (Anton Sprint V2) cost over £600 with the extra probes but no printer
in March, and will cost a small fortune to keep calibrated and sensors
replaced to schedule (but a slightly smaller fortune than the market
alternatives, according to the folks I bought it from).


I've no idea if gas installers actually know how to use them.


There's now a specific competency (CPA1 - Combustion Performance Analyser)
which I chose to do as an extra along with my core gas safety + boilers +
cookers + gas fires + water heaters when I had to renew my qualifications
(which we have to do every 5 years) a year ago last summer. TBH it
(CPA1) is pretty mickey mouse.


Most didn't have one when I bought mine (which was one reason
I bought one). Someone posted the results here which their
engineer left with them, and I interpreted them - I could see
the flue analyser hadn't been used correctly from the results
(boiler was cold).

There are two quite distinct uses with gas appliances.

The standard UK gas service check is that the CO/CO2 ratio in
the flue gas is 0.004. Otherwise, the boiler needs cleaning.
If the ratio is 0.008, then it's in a really dire state and
regarded as dangerous.


Incorrect: 0.004 is the trigger level at which you should service the
boiler. If, after servicing the boiler, the ratio is under 0.008 it's OK
to put back into service (sic).


The second is if you're actually commissioning or resetting the
mixture. In this case, you need the figures from the manufacturer
as they're model dependant, and as they often aren't even in
the installation/service manual and neither are the instructions
to adjust the mixture, I presume this is something gas fitters
don't normally do.


On the boilers I install (Worcester-Bosch) I don't have to. I daresay if I
dealt with Kestons I would, but life's too short and there's enough pain
in it anyway ;-).


You can also use them to measure CO level in a room, the amount of
oxygen you breath out, and all sorts of other interesting things.


Though in the CPA1 training we are taught that we are not to do that: if
we suspect a CO hazard we should call in the Gas Emergency Service
Provider (was TRANSCO for natural gas) - who apparently are not trained in
this stuff either :-(


An interesting link perhaps?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/p...olutecocom.pdf

Don

Boiler service
 

In article ,
Donwill writes:
An interesting link perhaps?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/p...olutecocom.pdf

Yes - that's the HSE comparing our 0.004/0.008 CO:CO2 ratio scheme
with schemes used in other countries, and showing ours works best.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Boiler service
 

In message , YAPH
writes
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:31:52 +0000, mogga wrote:

It's a little over two and a half years old and has never been
serviced ... it's working fine - I just feel it should probably have a
service. Does that make me a worried well? :)

Frankly yes ... probably: are you having any issues with it?

OTOH one of the things I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that, if
it's a combi and if you're in a hard water area, there should be a scale
inhibitor fitted to the system. If you have a phosphor-dosing system such
as a Combimate or a canister type (http://yaph.co.uk/limescale) then that
should be refilled or replaced, which you may need or want an engineer to
do. If it has an electrolytic, electronic or magnetic type fitted then I'd
just put the money aside to save up for having it descaled and a proper
scale inhibitor fitted later :-)

Point of order....

Are these scale inhibitor dosing systems separate from the boiler? I
have just had a combi (Veissman vitodens 100-W) fitted to an annexe and
can find no mention in the handbook.

Water here is fairly hard and I plan to use a conventional ion exchange
water softener.

regards




--
Tim Lamb

Boiler service
 

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 18:14:29 +0000, fred wrote:

I was going to suggest to the o/p that he does an analysis of the flue
gasses to see if it's burning ok. Proper analysers are not really
available to the amateur of course but I've heard tell of chemical based
test kits (a bit like a litmus test) to check the CO (or is it O) levels
in the exhaust gas. Can't find refs for them anywhere now, have you come
across them perhaps?

http://www.brigon.de/englisch/gas-service-test-kit.html

has CO test tubes: a glass tube that a widget draws a defined amount of air
through, and the color change is proportional to the CO content.

Or the CO2 testers, used for efficiency measurement, working by chemical
legerdermain:

http://www.brigon.de/englisch/co2-indicator.html

I suspect both are much easier to misuse than the electronic testers...


Thomas Prufer

Boiler service
 

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Donwill writes:
An interesting link perhaps?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/p...olutecocom.pdf

Yes - that's the HSE comparing our 0.004/0.008 CO:CO2 ratio scheme
with schemes used in other countries, and showing ours works best.

Thanks for the interesting link - which lead me to this one
http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/p...ionsreview.pdf which looks
more directly at the legislation in other regimes. No surprise that the
UK is more tightly controlled (in law at least). And also no surprise
that the kit required for CO/CO2 measurement is more expensive to
buy/maintain than CO kit. But heh - at least the UK is a world leader
in regulation.
--
R

Boiler service
 

On 28 Nov, 21:54, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
The standard UK gas service check is that the CO/CO2 ratio in
the flue gas is 0.004. *Otherwise, the boiler needs cleaning.
If the ratio is 0.008, then it's in a really dire state and
regarded as dangerous. This is independant of boiler. The highest
value I've ever seen on any boiler I've measured is 0.00078

When we had the engineer check our 'oscillating' boiler, the CO level
(when in the oscillating condition) was so high as to cause his
analyzer to shut down to protect itself, and even then it was so
contaminated that even after being left for an hour to purge it still
wouldn't zero!

He said that under normal circumstances such a high level would cause
him to condemn the boiler as unsafe, but since it had been the same
since new (over two years) he kindly left it running. He intends to
return when his analyzer is working again!

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

Boiler service
 

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:47:38 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Is it now mandatory for you to have one?

No

Does that centre on measuring safety, or measuring combustion
efficiency, or both?

If by 'measuring safety' you mean investigating atmospheric CO incidents
then, no, it specifically doesn't: we're supposed to call in the Gas
Emergency Service Provider (formerly TRANSCO) (who, AIUI, also may
not be trained in dealing with such situations).

We were trained and assessed on using them for combustion analysis.

The standard UK gas service check is that the CO/CO2 ratio in
the flue gas is 0.004. Otherwise, the boiler needs cleaning.
If the ratio is 0.008, then it's in a really dire state and
regarded as dangerous.

Incorrect: 0.004 is the trigger level at which you should service the
boiler. If, after servicing the boiler, the ratio is under 0.008 it's OK
to put back into service (sic).

Well, I think that's basically what I said, not very well though.

Yes, re-reading what you said I think both your statement and mine are
true.

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Many hands make light work. Too many cooks spoil the broth.

Boiler service
 

On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:17:43 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:

In message , YAPH
writes
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:31:52 +0000, mogga wrote:

It's a little over two and a half years old and has never been
serviced ... it's working fine - I just feel it should probably have a
service. Does that make me a worried well? :)

Frankly yes ... probably: are you having any issues with it?

OTOH one of the things I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that, if
it's a combi and if you're in a hard water area, there should be a scale
inhibitor fitted to the system. If you have a phosphor-dosing system such
as a Combimate or a canister type (http://yaph.co.uk/limescale) then that
should be refilled or replaced, which you may need or want an engineer to
do. If it has an electrolytic, electronic or magnetic type fitted then I'd
just put the money aside to save up for having it descaled and a proper
scale inhibitor fitted later :-)

Point of order....

Are these scale inhibitor dosing systems separate from the boiler?

Yes.
I
have just had a combi (Veissman vitodens 100-W) fitted to an annexe and
can find no mention in the handbook.

Should be something about requirement to fit something in the
installation & servicing manual.

Water here is fairly hard and I plan to use a conventional ion exchange
water softener.

Should be OK then.



--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Life is nature's way of keeping meat fresh

Boiler service
 

In article , Thomas Prufer
writes
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 18:14:29 +0000, fred wrote:

I was going to suggest to the o/p that he does an analysis of the flue
gasses to see if it's burning ok. Proper analysers are not really
available to the amateur of course but I've heard tell of chemical based
test kits (a bit like a litmus test) to check the CO (or is it O) levels
in the exhaust gas. Can't find refs for them anywhere now, have you come
across them perhaps?

http://www.brigon.de/englisch/gas-service-test-kit.html

has CO test tubes: a glass tube that a widget draws a defined amount of air
through, and the color change is proportional to the CO content.

Or the CO2 testers, used for efficiency measurement, working by chemical
legerdermain:

http://www.brigon.de/englisch/co2-indicator.html

I suspect both are much easier to misuse than the electronic testers...

Thanks for that info.

Can't find a UK supplier and suspect they're still a bit more
professional (read costly) than I need. The ones I saw mentioned here
before were a bit more basic than those, probably in the 20quid range
for a basic test. I have searched but can seem to come up with the right
search terms.

I initially set up the boiler using a hired analyser from a specialist
division of HSS but they don't do them any more so I'm looking for
something basic to check that the combustion is still within limits.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

Boiler service
 

In message , YAPH
writes
On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:17:43 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:
Point of order....

Are these scale inhibitor dosing systems separate from the boiler?

Yes.
I
have just had a combi (Veissman vitodens 100-W) fitted to an annexe and
can find no mention in the handbook.

Should be something about requirement to fit something in the
installation & servicing manual.

Water here is fairly hard and I plan to use a conventional ion exchange
water softener.

Should be OK then.

OK Ta.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

Boiler service
 

fred wrote:
In article , Thomas Prufer
writes
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 18:14:29 +0000, fred wrote:

I was going to suggest to the o/p that he does an analysis of the flue
gasses to see if it's burning ok. Proper analysers are not really
available to the amateur of course but I've heard tell of chemical
based
test kits (a bit like a litmus test) to check the CO (or is it O)
levels
in the exhaust gas. Can't find refs for them anywhere now, have you
come
across them perhaps?

http://www.brigon.de/englisch/gas-service-test-kit.html

has CO test tubes: a glass tube that a widget draws a defined amount
of air
through, and the color change is proportional to the CO content.

Or the CO2 testers, used for efficiency measurement, working by chemical
legerdermain:

http://www.brigon.de/englisch/co2-indicator.html

I suspect both are much easier to misuse than the electronic testers...

Thanks for that info.

Can't find a UK supplier and suspect they're still a bit more
professional (read costly) than I need. The ones I saw mentioned here
before were a bit more basic than those, probably in the 20quid range
for a basic test. I have searched but can seem to come up with the
right search terms.

I initially set up the boiler using a hired analyser from a specialist
division of HSS but they don't do them any more so I'm looking for
something basic to check that the combustion is still within limits.
Perhaps this will help?
http://www.oikos.com/library/eem/boiler/equipment.html
Don

Boiler service
 

On 28 Nov 2009 22:34:37 GMT, YAPH wrote:

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:31:52 +0000, mogga wrote:

It's a little over two and a half years old and has never been
serviced ... it's working fine - I just feel it should probably have a
service. Does that make me a worried well? :)

Frankly yes ... probably: are you having any issues with it?


No - it works.
Soft water here. :)


OTOH one of the things I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that, if
it's a combi and if you're in a hard water area, there should be a scale
inhibitor fitted to the system. If you have a phosphor-dosing system such
as a Combimate or a canister type (http://yaph.co.uk/limescale) then that
should be refilled or replaced, which you may need or want an engineer to
do. If it has an electrolytic, electronic or magnetic type fitted then I'd
just put the money aside to save up for having it descaled and a proper
scale inhibitor fitted later :-)
--
http://www.Christmasfreebies.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk