Pat Testing for a Shop.
 

Hi,

I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but..
I'm about to open a shop with a couple of friends selling "Antiques &
Collectables", however we'd like to be able to sell old electrical items
too.

From what I can see, if we "Pat Test" each item before it's sold, then this
would be sufficient for current safety regulations?

So am I missing something or is it really as easy as a £60 - £100 course and
a £300ish tester?

Thanks in advance

Mat

Pat Testing for a Shop.
 

In article ,
"Mat C" writes:
Hi,

I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but..
I'm about to open a shop with a couple of friends selling "Antiques &
Collectables", however we'd like to be able to sell old electrical items
too.

From what I can see, if we "Pat Test" each item before it's sold, then this
would be sufficient for current safety regulations?

Almost.

You should obtain C&G 2377/02 certificate in performing PAT
testing to show you know what your're doing, and it is intended
to be accessible to non-electricians. Look for this in
local technical and further education colleges. This is intended
to be achievable by someone who knows how to wire a plug and
knows the difference between milliohms and megohms. It's normally
run as a 1 day course with the exam at the end of the day. In
your case, find somewhere which also does some practical work
during the course with PAT testers, as the exam doesn't include
any (which means some courses don't either). It will also give
you a good idea what features you will and will not require in
the PAT tester you choose to obtain.

It's usually run together with C&G 2377/01 which covers
management of PAT testing. That's probably slightly less
applicable to you, but you may not be able to find somewhere
which does only one without the other, and there's a lot of
overlap.

There are some additional requirements in order to sell an item,
over and above what's required to pass a PAT test. Appliances must
conform to the Plugs and Sockets Regulations, and the main additional
point is that items must be sold with a 13A plug to the current
specification, i.e. including semi-insulated pins.

There will be some old electrical appliances which can't be made
to pass a PAT test. You would have to be clear about selling these
for historic value only, and ensure they can't be used. A shop
near me does this by stripping out the mains wiring. Some other
items might be salable as working if you rewire them, replacing
the electrical parts with new ones. (PAT test course won't cover
skills needed to do this.)

So am I missing something or is it really as easy as a £60 - £100 course and
a £300ish tester?

You really need C&G 2377/02 certificate. I would guess that's
going to cost a bit more than that for the course and exam,
but I haven't looked up any courses recently to check.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Pat Testing for a Shop.
 

Oh, one other thing -- make sure your insurer covers you
for selling electrical items which you have PAT tested.
In theory, they should be OK with this if you have the C&G
certificate, but it wouldn't surprise me if you have to
educate them on that matter.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Pat Testing for a Shop.
 

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:39:21 +0100, "Mat C" wrote:


From what I can see, if we "Pat Test" each item before it's sold, then this
would be sufficient for current safety regulations?

So am I missing something or is it really as easy as a £60 - £100 course and
a £300ish tester?

Yes and no. 90% of PA testing is visual examination. It isn't just
dumbly plugging it into a machine pressing a button and believing the
result. A lethal device can easily get through the machine part of a
PA test.

With old electrical items the most difficult part will be the
assessment and judgment, and knowing just what is too risky to put on
the market with a lead still attached.

If you have the requisite knowledge and experience of the items you
are selling then the formal part of gaining the C&G certificate and
buying a tester is the simple bit. I doubt however if you will find
any course that will cover the type of item you propose to sell in any
worthwhile detail at all.

Modern products have safety designed in and its quite difficult to
harm yourself with them. As a result PA testing focuses on leads and
plugs. You will need to look much deeper.

Many older electrical items had designs which were (and are)
inherently unsafe and although "safe" in that they can pass a PA test
on a meter are actually potentially lethal.

For example some old TV sets have large ventilation slots where metal
items can easily be poked onto the chassis which is at half mains
voltage. People these days are not used to such entertainment value
as watching a small child dancing around holding a fork stuck in the
back of the TV and may not consider it to be terribly funny (even
though it is!).

Some old lamps have wiring which will pass a machine test but is so
poorly protected against things like sharp edges within the lamp that
they are potentially lethal. Any lamp conversion which dates from the
1950's to 1980's is particularly suspect. Old rubber cable can easily
pass a machine test yet have insulation which cracks off if flexed.
You need to be able to understand which items are safe and which are
not.

Don't forget that PA testing is not proof an item is safe when sold
and does not absolve you of product liability responsibility.

Pat Testing for a Shop.
 

Peter Parry wrote:

You need to be able to understand which items are safe and which are
not.

Don't forget that PA testing is not proof an item is safe when sold
and does not absolve you of product liability responsibility.

Just bought a table lamp (£1.50) from a charity shop. It was supplied
with an older type 13Amp plug with solid metal L&N pins, not sleeved as
more recent. Is this valid for sale?

--
Adrian C

Pat Testing for a Shop.
 

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 13:56:47 +0100, Adrian C
wrote:

Peter Parry wrote:

You need to be able to understand which items are safe and which are
not.

Don't forget that PA testing is not proof an item is safe when sold
and does not absolve you of product liability responsibility.

Just bought a table lamp (£1.50) from a charity shop. It was supplied
with an older type 13Amp plug with solid metal L&N pins, not sleeved as
more recent. Is this valid for sale?

Second hand equipment that is supplied in the course of business
(including auctions) to a consumer falls within the scope of the Plug
and Socket regulations 1994.

These requires the plug to meet British Standard Specification for 13
amp fused plugs and switched and unswitched socket-outlets BS 1363:
1984 published by the British Standards Institution on 31st August
1984, as amended by Amendments No. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 published on
30th April 1985, 31st December 1985, 31st July 1987, 23rd December
1987, 30th June 1989 and 28th February 1990 respectively. This
standard now requires sleeved plugs so the device should not have been
sold with an older plug attached.

Pat Testing for a Shop.
 

Peter Parry wrote:

noted and snipped

This
standard now requires sleeved plugs so the device should not have been
sold with an older plug attached.


Thanks Peter, at the back of my mind (small place) I thought that was
the case. I'll be informing the shop.

--
Adrian C