Water meters
 

We have applied to have a water meter and have got an appointment for an
inspection.

Our water comes under a piece of tarmac that forms a shared area for
access to 5 houses and our tap is just off our property in this shared area.

Thw water then runs undergound and comes out up what would be our
external wall, if it wasn't for the fact that we have an out building,
if that is the right way to describe it, that was built to house a meter
cupbord, a bin cuipboard and an L shaped shed that goes round the back
of the cupboards. The hose shut off valve is in this shed.

Now to my question.

Where would you think they would want to put the meter? It they wanted
to put it in the shed, they wouldn't get access to read it. They could
fit it after the external shut off valve, but I would not like to have
to pay for any water that leaks from the tap to the house shut off
valve. Even though I believe I am responsible for any leaked water

Do you think I could get them to run the supply into our meter cupboad
and then fit a meter in there?

Dave

Water meters
 

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:51:44 +0100, Dave
had this to say:

We have applied to have a water meter and have got an appointment for an
inspection.

Our water comes under a piece of tarmac that forms a shared area for
access to 5 houses and our tap is just off our property in this shared area.

Thw water then runs undergound and comes out up what would be our
external wall, if it wasn't for the fact that we have an out building,
if that is the right way to describe it, that was built to house a meter
cupbord, a bin cuipboard and an L shaped shed that goes round the back
of the cupboards. The hose shut off valve is in this shed.

Now to my question.

Where would you think they would want to put the meter? It they wanted
to put it in the shed, they wouldn't get access to read it. They could
fit it after the external shut off valve, but I would not like to have
to pay for any water that leaks from the tap to the house shut off
valve. Even though I believe I am responsible for any leaked water

Do you think I could get them to run the supply into our meter cupboad
and then fit a meter in there?

I had a water meter fitted a few years ago and it was put in the house
'under the kitchen sink' next to the internal stoptap.
They then fitted an 'outreader' on an outside wall in the back garden
so they don't have to gain access to the house (I do have to leave the
side gate unlocked, unfortunately).

--
Frank Erskine
Sunderland

Water meters
 

I had a water meter fitted a few years ago and it was put in the house
'under the kitchen sink' next to the internal stoptap.
They then fitted an 'outreader' on an outside wall in the back garden
so they don't have to gain access to the house (I do have to leave the
side gate unlocked, unfortunately).

That was also the practice of Thames Water and what we had done. But
they no longer do so because the remote reading pads they used are
unreliable and are no longer made. They also have trouble sourcing the
hand-held readers. And the meter readers often leave the readers at
home because they are heavy. So Thames are no fitting meters externally
wherever possible - usually where the stopcock is located. The OP's
supplier may of course have a different practice (and yours may have a
source of better gear).
--
R

Water meters
 

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:51:44 +0100, Dave wrote:
Where would you think they would want to put the meter? It they wanted
to put it in the shed, they wouldn't get access to read it.

We had one here in the US at our last place - although the meter had a
dial readout, it also had a wire pair running to a sensor on the outside
of the house; once in a while the water company would just read it via
the external sensor.

Always wondered how it worked - there was no power to the meter itself, so
presumably nothing in the way of smarts in the meter.

cheers

Jules

Water meters
 

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave wrote:

We have applied to have a water meter and have got an appointment for
an inspection.

Our water comes under a piece of tarmac that forms a shared area for
access to 5 houses and our tap is just off our property in this
shared area.
Thw water then runs undergound and comes out up what would be our
external wall, if it wasn't for the fact that we have an out building,
if that is the right way to describe it, that was built to house a
meter cupbord, a bin cuipboard and an L shaped shed that goes round
the back of the cupboards. The hose shut off valve is in this shed.

Now to my question.

Where would you think they would want to put the meter? It they wanted
to put it in the shed, they wouldn't get access to read it. They could
fit it after the external shut off valve, but I would not like to have
to pay for any water that leaks from the tap to the house shut off
valve. Even though I believe I am responsible for any leaked water

Do you think I could get them to run the supply into our meter cupboad
and then fit a meter in there?

Dave

They will fit it wherever it takes the least effort to do so - which may be
in your shed. Don't worry about access for reading it - they can connect it
with a bit of wire to a device (looks like a 2" or thereabouts plastic
disc - don't know how it works!) on an external wall - and they can get a
reading by waving their equipment at this disc.

A neighbour of mine had a meter fitted a few years ago, and they dug up the
road and fitted it in place of the external stop-tap. The alternative would
have been under the kitchen sink - which was rather cramped, so they didn't
fancy that - preferring to dig up the road. But I suspect that that was
relatively unusual.

I don't know which area you live in, but Severn Trent have a FAQ about water
meters at
http://www.s****er.co.uk/server.php?show=ConWebDoc.3054 Other water
companies probably have something similar.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Water meters
 

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:51:27 -0500, Jules
had this to say:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:51:44 +0100, Dave wrote:
Where would you think they would want to put the meter? It they wanted
to put it in the shed, they wouldn't get access to read it.

We had one here in the US at our last place - although the meter had a
dial readout, it also had a wire pair running to a sensor on the outside
of the house; once in a while the water company would just read it via
the external sensor.

Always wondered how it worked - there was no power to the meter itself, so
presumably nothing in the way of smarts in the meter.

My 'outreader' does apparently have a battery (lithium I believe)
which I was told should last seven or eight years.

--
Frank Erskine
Sunderland

Water meters
 

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:45:21 GMT, "neverwas" had
this to say:

I had a water meter fitted a few years ago and it was put in the house
'under the kitchen sink' next to the internal stoptap.
They then fitted an 'outreader' on an outside wall in the back garden
so they don't have to gain access to the house (I do have to leave the
side gate unlocked, unfortunately).

That was also the practice of Thames Water and what we had done. But
they no longer do so because the remote reading pads they used are
unreliable and are no longer made. They also have trouble sourcing the
hand-held readers. And the meter readers often leave the readers at
home because they are heavy. So Thames are no fitting meters externally
wherever possible - usually where the stopcock is located. The OP's
supplier may of course have a different practice (and yours may have a
source of better gear).

This one just gives a simple lc display so the meter reader needs
nothing more than a notebook and a pencil.

--
Frank Erskine
Sunderland

Water meters
 

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:51:44 +0100, Dave
had this to say:

We have applied to have a water meter and have got an appointment for an
inspection.

Our water comes under a piece of tarmac that forms a shared area for
access to 5 houses and our tap is just off our property in this shared area.

Thw water then runs undergound and comes out up what would be our
external wall, if it wasn't for the fact that we have an out building,
if that is the right way to describe it, that was built to house a meter
cupbord, a bin cuipboard and an L shaped shed that goes round the back
of the cupboards. The hose shut off valve is in this shed.
****

That should have read 'house' :-(



Now to my question.

Where would you think they would want to put the meter? It they wanted
to put it in the shed, they wouldn't get access to read it. They could
fit it after the external shut off valve, but I would not like to have
to pay for any water that leaks from the tap to the house shut off
valve. Even though I believe I am responsible for any leaked water

Do you think I could get them to run the supply into our meter cupboad
and then fit a meter in there?

I had a water meter fitted a few years ago and it was put in the house
'under the kitchen sink' next to the internal stoptap.
They then fitted an 'outreader' on an outside wall in the back garden
so they don't have to gain access to the house (I do have to leave the
side gate unlocked, unfortunately).

That sounds OK, they can fit the out reader in the meter cupboard then.

Many thanks for the input.


Dave

Water meters
 

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:51:27 -0500, Jules wrote:

Always wondered how it worked - there was no power to the meter itself,
so presumably nothing in the way of smarts in the meter.

Wouldn't need much power. The flow of water and small turbine would
generate enough. The reader could induce power via the remote pickup
to enable the meter to be read.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Water meters
 

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:30:07 +0100, Dave
had this to say:

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:51:44 +0100, Dave
had this to say:

We have applied to have a water meter and have got an appointment for an
inspection.

Our water comes under a piece of tarmac that forms a shared area for
access to 5 houses and our tap is just off our property in this shared area.

Thw water then runs undergound and comes out up what would be our
external wall, if it wasn't for the fact that we have an out building,
if that is the right way to describe it, that was built to house a meter
cupbord, a bin cuipboard and an L shaped shed that goes round the back
of the cupboards. The hose shut off valve is in this shed.
****

That should have read 'house' :-(



Now to my question.

Where would you think they would want to put the meter? It they wanted
to put it in the shed, they wouldn't get access to read it. They could
fit it after the external shut off valve, but I would not like to have
to pay for any water that leaks from the tap to the house shut off
valve. Even though I believe I am responsible for any leaked water

Do you think I could get them to run the supply into our meter cupboad
and then fit a meter in there?

I had a water meter fitted a few years ago and it was put in the house
'under the kitchen sink' next to the internal stoptap.
They then fitted an 'outreader' on an outside wall in the back garden
so they don't have to gain access to the house (I do have to leave the
side gate unlocked, unfortunately).

That sounds OK, they can fit the out reader in the meter cupboard then.

I suppose that depends on your local water company. My meter was
fitted by a company ("Kemac Services Ltd") wholly owned by my water
company, Northumbrian Water Ltd, together with Essex & Suffolk Water.
If you can arrange a (probably 2-wire) connection from the proposed
meter to your meter cupboard there shouldn't be a problem (so long as
they have a key for the meter cupboard!). My connection was more or
less straight through the wall (although the guy's SDS drill battery
was flat! - he used the holes in an airbrick to route his wire).

I think the "beauty" of my meter installation was that there was
little alteration to the plumbing, with less chance of freezing of
newly-external pipes. And of course, technically the feed pipe (from
the external stoptap to the meter) becomes the responsibility of the
water company as far as leaks are concerned... you are only being
charged from the meter onwards :-)

Water-wise, anyway...

--
Frank Erskine

Water meters
 

jake wrote:

Water meters are evil.

Yes, terrible things that mean we pay about a quarter of what the rates
would be (and without ever having changed usage patterns.)

The only people who object to meters are those who spend their days
p'ing the stuff up the walls.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

Water meters
 

On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 10:35:03 +0100, Scott M
wrote:

jake wrote:

Water meters are evil.

Yes, terrible things that mean we pay about a quarter of what the rates
would be (and without ever having changed usage patterns.)

The only people who object to meters are those who spend their days
p'ing the stuff up the walls.

Water company needs to make profits at level A to be happy.
People all change to water meters and profits drop.
Company unhappy. Therefore all charges put up.
Water meter customers then unhappy.
--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

Water meters
 

jake wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:13:24 +0100, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave wrote:


I don't know which area you live in, but Severn Trent have a FAQ
about water meters at
http://www.s****er.co.uk/server.php?show=ConWebDoc.3054 Other water
companies probably have something similar.

Water meters are evil.

They do save water though. My sister in law had one fitted & only then
realised that both toilets were in permanent overflow 24/7 for heaven knows
how long. New ball valves fitted must save thousands of litres of water.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Water meters
 

Dave wrote:
We have applied to have a water meter and have got an appointment for
an inspection.

Our water comes under a piece of tarmac that forms a shared area for
access to 5 houses and our tap is just off our property in this
shared area.
Thw water then runs undergound and comes out up what would be our
external wall, if it wasn't for the fact that we have an out building,
if that is the right way to describe it, that was built to house a
meter cupbord, a bin cuipboard and an L shaped shed that goes round
the back of the cupboards. The hose shut off valve is in this shed.

Now to my question.

Where would you think they would want to put the meter? It they wanted
to put it in the shed, they wouldn't get access to read it. They could
fit it after the external shut off valve, but I would not like to have
to pay for any water that leaks from the tap to the house shut off
valve. Even though I believe I am responsible for any leaked water

Do you think I could get them to run the supply into our meter cupboad
and then fit a meter in there?

Dave

I had one installed about 3 months ago, it's just over the stoptap where the
main exits the ground.

They read it remotely by driving past - it has bluetooth capability.

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

Water meters
 

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
mogga wrote:

Water company needs to make profits at level A to be happy.
People all change to water meters and profits drop.
Company unhappy. Therefore all charges put up.
Water meter customers then unhappy.

There is at least some truth in that!

Hopefully, though, the planet will benefit - from an overall drop in water
useage. [Energy spent refining and pumping it, etc. - and possibily a
reduction in the need to create and install additional intrastructure].
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Water meters
 

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:30:07 +0100, Dave
had this to say:

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:51:44 +0100, Dave
had this to say:

We have applied to have a water meter and have got an appointment for an
inspection.

Our water comes under a piece of tarmac that forms a shared area for
access to 5 houses and our tap is just off our property in this shared area.

Thw water then runs undergound and comes out up what would be our
external wall, if it wasn't for the fact that we have an out building,
if that is the right way to describe it, that was built to house a meter
cupbord, a bin cuipboard and an L shaped shed that goes round the back
of the cupboards. The hose shut off valve is in this shed.
****

That should have read 'house' :-(



Now to my question.

Where would you think they would want to put the meter? It they wanted
to put it in the shed, they wouldn't get access to read it. They could
fit it after the external shut off valve, but I would not like to have
to pay for any water that leaks from the tap to the house shut off
valve. Even though I believe I am responsible for any leaked water

Do you think I could get them to run the supply into our meter cupboad
and then fit a meter in there?

I had a water meter fitted a few years ago and it was put in the house
'under the kitchen sink' next to the internal stoptap.
They then fitted an 'outreader' on an outside wall in the back garden
so they don't have to gain access to the house (I do have to leave the
side gate unlocked, unfortunately).
That sounds OK, they can fit the out reader in the meter cupboard then.

I suppose that depends on your local water company. My meter was
fitted by a company ("Kemac Services Ltd") wholly owned by my water
company, Northumbrian Water Ltd, together with Essex & Suffolk Water.
If you can arrange a (probably 2-wire) connection from the proposed
meter to your meter cupboard there shouldn't be a problem (so long as
they have a key for the meter cupboard!). My connection was more or
less straight through the wall (although the guy's SDS drill battery
was flat! - he used the holes in an airbrick to route his wire).

I think the "beauty" of my meter installation was that there was
little alteration to the plumbing, with less chance of freezing of
newly-external pipes. And of course, technically the feed pipe (from
the external stoptap to the meter) becomes the responsibility of the
water company as far as leaks are concerned... you are only being
charged from the meter onwards :-)

Water-wise, anyway...

From conversations today, it looks like they will dig a hole on the
access road and fit the meter there.

Dave

Water meters
 

On 10/07/2009 20:51 Dave wrote:

Do you think I could get them to run the supply into our meter cupboad
and then fit a meter in there?

I fitted ours in the kitchen next to the stop tap. That way any leaks
outside are their problem not mine.

--
F

Water meters
 

On 11/07/2009 11:43 mogga wrote:

Water company needs to make profits at level A to be happy.
People all change to water meters and profits drop.
Company unhappy. Therefore all charges put up.
Water meter customers then unhappy.

Unless, like us, they use less than the average.

--
F

Water meters
 

F wrote:
On 10/07/2009 20:51 Dave wrote:

Do you think I could get them to run the supply into our meter
cupboad and then fit a meter in there?

I fitted ours in the kitchen next to the stop tap. That way any leaks
outside are their problem not mine.

Snap and was pleased that I did. It took them over three weeks to resolve a
leak that could otherwise have been on the wrong side of the meter.

Water meters
 

jake wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:13:24 +0100, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave wrote:


I don't know which area you live in, but Severn Trent have a FAQ
about water meters at
http://www.s****er.co.uk/server.php?show=ConWebDoc.3054 Other water
companies probably have something similar.

Water meters are evil.

The ecological cost of fitting these pointlesss device is outrageous.
Having said that I support the right of anyone who wants one to have
one BUT (in my world) at THEIR request and true cost and NOT the water
companies insistence.

A million reasons - for starters
The cost (in energy and materials) of making the damn things
The cost (in energy and materials) of fitting the damn things
The cost (in energy and materials) of repairing the damn things
The cost in increase in disease infection and infestation when people
stop washing the dishes, the drains and themselves - and the will when
the price is right!
The water flow through the sewers will fall as peole will not flsh the
loo when they should.

If you think all this is wrong, calculate (estimate) the cost (in kWh)
to do the above.

many many many other reasons.

Of course, as I said some will want them because they seek to pay less
than everyone else. There are always people like this. But when the
overall social good is at stake, water meters are a curse.

The water companies will INCREASE the price once enough people are
hooked. The shareholders will win and YOU will lose. For G's sake
learn will you.

ps upper case meant for emphasis not shouting in this post.

Thank you have a nice day.

I appreciate all the issues that you have raised are valid and need
considering; however, on the other side of the coin is the very high
standard required of potable water now that requires significant
infrastructure spend and increasingly high energy inputs in treatment. If it
reduces folks tendency to make profiligate use of water on their cars and
gardens then this is a virtue; similarly if it encourages folk to use
showers.

Water meters
 

On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 11:07:27 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Water meters are evil.

They do save water though. My sister in law had one fitted & only then
realised that both toilets were in permanent overflow 24/7 for heaven knows
how long. New ball valves fitted must save thousands of litres of water.

Yep - that's one of those things I like about being on a system with a
private well; the pump kicking on in the middle of the night makes it very
obvious when someone hasn't quite shut a tap off properly, or the toilet
cistern valve's having an off moment etc. :-)

Water meters
 

F wrote:

Water company needs to make profits at level A to be happy.
People all change to water meters and profits drop.
Company unhappy. Therefore all charges put up.
Water meter customers then unhappy.

Unless, like us, they use less than the average.

ding I suspect 'average' use is probably far higher than anyone
inclined not to be wasteful. Certainly many people I know seem to use
far more than us and, while moderate in use, we still use what we want
when we want it.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

Water meters
 

On 13/07/2009 11:38 Scott M wrote:

Certainly many people I know seem to use
far more than us and, while moderate in use, we still use what we want
when we want it.

That's us too. But just two of us living in a high 'rateable value'
house means we avoid high 'water rates'.

--
F

Water meters
 

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 11:38:29 +0100, Scott M wrote:

ding I suspect 'average' use is probably far higher than anyone
inclined not to be wasteful. Certainly many people I know seem to use
far more than us and, while moderate in use, we still use what we want
when we want it.

Friends of mine (a couple) recently moved from their unmetered house to a
brand new metered house. The new house has a fitted kitchen with a *new*
dishwasher and a *new* washing machine.

They refuse to use the dishwasher because they think it will use too much
water and cost them.

They refuse to use the washing machine for the same reason.

They have a caravan, with unmetered water, 15 miles away. They have
installed a twin tub washing machine in the caravan (bought in a sale for
£10). They drive to the caravan 3 times a week to do their washing.

I'm *not* joking :-(
--
Regards,

Hugh Jampton

Water meters
 

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:13:13 +0100, Hugh Jampton wrote:
They refuse to use the dishwasher because they think it will use too much
water and cost them.

:-)

I thought the 'expense' in dishwashers was solely in the heating of the
water, not the actual consumption... no idea what really modern ones are
like, though.

(Ours looks like it came out of the Ark, so we've never actually switched
it on for fear of it opening a wormhole to another dimension)

Water meters
 

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:13:13 +0100, Hugh Jampton wrote:

They have a caravan, with unmetered water, 15 miles away. They have
installed a twin tub washing machine in the caravan (bought in a sale
for £10). They drive to the caravan 3 times a week to do their washing.

90 miles at 12p/mile(ish) just for fuel is £10.80. Water is about
0.2p/l (supply & sewage) so 5,400l. I doubt very much that a washing
machines uses 1,800l/wash. Thats 1.8 cubic meters...

I'm *not* joking :-(

Sadly I'm not surprised.

--
Cheers
Dave.