UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

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"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk contains these words:

It takes less far less keystokes on google to get it all that the tripe
you typed here.


In other words, you cannot provide any documentary evidence to support
your
claims.


I think you may have underestimated Dribble.

It is not that he can't provide any evidence - the chances are that it
would be the easiest thing in the world to provide the link to his
source - it is just that he would rather leave the source a mystery than
expose the gap between his claims and the reality, which may be no more
than a sales brochure for a novel pumped storage scheme.


It sounds to me like a theoretical exercise by an academic with no practical
experience, much like the insolation calculations a couple of years ago, by
a member the Cavendish laboratory, that treated the Earth as a black body
and showed it couldn't possibly be warming.

Actually, I have found some work being done by one university (not
Cambridge) on the environmental impact of a number of estuary barrier
schemes in the Irish Sea. Between them they would significantly increase the
global capacity of tidal generation, but on nothing like the scale he
claims. At best, they would provide power for much of NE England, but they
aare barrier schemes, not lagoons.

I have also found some interesting work being done on multi-pond lagoons,
proposed as pumped storage schemes to overcome some of the disadvantages of
wind generation.

What I have been completely unable to find is anything to support his
claims.

Colin Bignell


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"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...
...
So, post your sources and let's look at the figures. ....

Cambridge feel confident. Do a Google.

It is you making the claims. It is up to you to provide the sources
you are relying upon, not for me to call up every possible link to
anything to do with the subject.

You say you were in to Oceanography, then you would look, instead of
trying to make out you know it all. Things have moved on in 40 years,
as they don't drop weights in baths any more.

Suggesting that I trawl through everything on the internet


It takes less far less keystokes on google to get it all that the tripe
you typed here.


In other words, you cannot provide any documentary evidence to support
your claims.

Colin Bignell


No. You can't use Google.

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"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk contains these words:

It takes less far less keystokes on google to get it all that the tripe
you typed here.


In other words, you cannot provide any documentary evidence to support
your
claims.


I think you may have


This one needs tagging.

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"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

Actually, I have found some work being done by one university (not
Cambridge) on the environmental impact of a number of estuary barrier
schemes in the Irish Sea. Between them they would significantly increase
the global capacity of tidal generation, but on nothing like the scale he
claims.


That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is.

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"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

Actually, I have found some work being done by one university (not
Cambridge) on the environmental impact of a number of estuary barrier
schemes in the Irish Sea. Between them they would significantly increase
the global capacity of tidal generation, but on nothing like the scale he
claims.


That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is.


No. It indicates that nobody is investigating their use in the Irish Sea,
except in the form I mentioned in the bit you snipped.

Colin Bignell




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"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...
...
So, post your sources and let's look at the figures. ....

Cambridge feel confident. Do a Google.

It is you making the claims. It is up to you to provide the sources
you are relying upon, not for me to call up every possible link to
anything to do with the subject.

You say you were in to Oceanography, then you would look, instead of
trying to make out you know it all. Things have moved on in 40 years,
as they don't drop weights in baths any more.

Suggesting that I trawl through everything on the internet

It takes less far less keystokes on google to get it all that the tripe
you typed here.


In other words, you cannot provide any documentary evidence to support
your claims.

Colin Bignell


No. You can't use Google.


I have posted elsewhere the only things that Google throws up that is in any
way related to the subject matter, some of which is very interesting.
However, that does not change the fact that if you consistently refuse to
give your sources, the only reasonable conclusion is that you have none that
will stand up to inspection.

Colin Bignell


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On May 26, 9:59*pm, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in messagenews:BomdnUpvBNCjg4HXnZ2dnUVZ8iednZ2d@gigan ews.com...



"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...


"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
om...


I was specifically addressing DD's suggestion that the entire power
supply for the UK could be derived from tidal power in the Irish Sea.


It can. *Understand what a tidal lagoon is.


I do and I also understand their limitations, which is why I question the
claim.


Those who know think differently.


Those who *think* know differently.

MBQ
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The message
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is.


As usual Dribble has dug himself a hole and instead of trying to justify
his assertions he resorts to insults.

I think we can safely assume that the evidence he has wouldn't stand up
to even the most casual scrutiny.

--
Roger Chapman
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"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is.


As usual


This plantpot needs tagging.

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"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

Actually, I have found some work being done by one university (not
Cambridge) on the environmental impact of a number of estuary barrier
schemes in the Irish Sea. Between them they would significantly increase
the global capacity of tidal generation, but on nothing like the scale
he claims.


That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is.


No.


Again..."That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is".



  #91   Report Post  
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"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...
...
So, post your sources and let's look at the figures. ....

Cambridge feel confident. Do a Google.

It is you making the claims. It is up to you to provide the sources
you are relying upon, not for me to call up every possible link to
anything to do with the subject.

You say you were in to Oceanography, then you would look, instead of
trying to make out you know it all. Things have moved on in 40
years, as they don't drop weights in baths any more.

Suggesting that I trawl through everything on the internet

It takes less far less keystokes on google to get it all that the tripe
you typed here.

In other words, you cannot provide any documentary evidence to support
your claims.

Colin Bignell


No. You can't use Google.


I have posted elsewhere the only things that Google throws up that is in
any way related to the subject matter, some of which is very interesting.
However, that does not change the fact that if you consistently refuse to
give your sources,


You still can't use Google.

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"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On May 26, 9:59 pm, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in
messagenews:BomdnUpvBNCjg4HXnZ2dnUVZ8iednZ2d@gigan ews.com...



"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...


"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
om...


I was specifically addressing DD's suggestion that the entire power
supply for the UK could be derived from tidal power in the Irish Sea.


It can. Understand what a tidal lagoon is.


I do and I also understand their limitations, which is why I question
the
claim.


Those who know think differently.


Those who *think* know differently.


Thant counts you out then.

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In message , Roger
writes
The message
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is.


As usual Dribble has dug himself a


cess pit

and instead of trying to justify
his assertions he resorts to insults.


--
geoff
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On Tue, 26 May 2009 07:26:03 +0100, David Hansen wrote:

On Mon, 25 May 2009 18:37:59 +0100 someone who may be "nightjar"
cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote this:-

You only have to read the post that started this thread to see that
some, at least, actively promote that view.


I did read it. I didn't notice anything in that post which said that oil
would run out suddenly.


Quote:
We have 4 years from now,
until there will not be enough energy for travelling, heating and the
most important for food for everybody of us.
Unquote.

Admittedly it does not explicitly state that oil will have run out.
However 'not be enough' does rather imply run out, IMHO.
After that sentence I realized the OP was an alarmist and a
sensationalist...

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

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"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Roger
writes
The message
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is.


As usual Dribble has dug himself a


cess pit


Fantastic Maxie, only you could come out with that. Fantastic. Such
panache.



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On Fri, 29 May 2009 22:09:29 GMT someone who may be Ed Sirett
wrote this:-

I did read it. I didn't notice anything in that post which said that oil
would run out suddenly.


Quote:
We have 4 years from now,
until there will not be enough energy for travelling, heating and the
most important for food for everybody of us.
Unquote.

Admittedly it does not explicitly state that oil will have run out.


Correct.

However 'not be enough' does rather imply run out, IMHO.


Incorrect. That does not imply that it has run out, only that there
will not be enough.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
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Ed Sirett wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2009 07:26:03 +0100, David Hansen wrote:

On Mon, 25 May 2009 18:37:59 +0100 someone who may be "nightjar"
cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote this:-

You only have to read the post that started this thread to see that
some, at least, actively promote that view.

I did read it. I didn't notice anything in that post which said that oil
would run out suddenly.


Quote:
We have 4 years from now,
until there will not be enough energy for travelling, heating and the
most important for food for everybody of us.
Unquote.


For most of the third world, that statement already applies.

Admittedly it does not explicitly state that oil will have run out.
However 'not be enough' does rather imply run out, IMHO.
After that sentence I realized the OP was an alarmist and a
sensationalist...

Pretty much like the governments of the USA and UK then..;-)
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"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

Actually, I have found some work being done by one university (not
Cambridge) on the environmental impact of a number of estuary barrier
schemes in the Irish Sea. Between them they would significantly
increase the global capacity of tidal generation, but on nothing like
the scale he claims.

That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is.


No.


Again..."That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is".


As I have said before repeating something that is wrong does not make it
become right. You know full well that you keep trimming off the bits that
would give the lie to your claim.

Colin Bignell


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"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...
...
So, post your sources and let's look at the figures. ....

Cambridge feel confident. Do a Google.

It is you making the claims. It is up to you to provide the sources
you are relying upon, not for me to call up every possible link to
anything to do with the subject.

You say you were in to Oceanography, then you would look, instead of
trying to make out you know it all. Things have moved on in 40
years, as they don't drop weights in baths any more.

Suggesting that I trawl through everything on the internet

It takes less far less keystokes on google to get it all that the
tripe you typed here.

In other words, you cannot provide any documentary evidence to support
your claims.

Colin Bignell

No. You can't use Google.


I have posted elsewhere the only things that Google throws up that is in
any way related to the subject matter, some of which is very interesting.
However, that does not change the fact that if you consistently refuse to
give your sources,


You still can't use Google.


So, if I find a large number of articles on subjects related to various
combinations of tidal lagoons, Cambridge and the Irish Sea, but nothing to
support your claims, rather than it being that the article does not exist,
your argument is that I have suddenly forgotten how to use a search engine I
have to know intimately as a selling tool. Occam's razor is against you on
that. However, it would be easy to prove me wrong - simply post a link to
it. Otherwise repeating that I can't use Google merely deserves a slight
misquote of Mandy Rice-Davis; you would say that wouldn't you?

Colin Bignell


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On 29 May, 23:09, Ed Sirett wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2009 07:26:03 +0100, David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2009 18:37:59 +0100 someone who may be "nightjar"
cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote this:-


You only have to read the post that started this thread to see that
some, at least, actively promote that view.


I did read it. I didn't notice anything in that post which said that oil
would run out suddenly.


Quote:
*We have 4 years from now,
until there will not be enough energy for travelling, heating and the
most important for food for everybody of us.
Unquote.

Admittedly it does not explicitly state that oil will have run out.
However 'not be enough' does rather imply run out,


Not at all. The supply will not fall to zero. The the price will
rise so that demand is reduced to matc hthe dimishing supply. that
will be very painful.

Eventually the oil price reach a point where it is more economic to
grow oil producing crops instead of food.

Robert



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RobertL wrote:
On 29 May, 23:09, Ed Sirett wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2009 07:26:03 +0100, David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2009 18:37:59 +0100 someone who may be "nightjar"
cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote this:-
You only have to read the post that started this thread to see that
some, at least, actively promote that view.
I did read it. I didn't notice anything in that post which said that oil
would run out suddenly.

Quote:
We have 4 years from now,
until there will not be enough energy for travelling, heating and the
most important for food for everybody of us.
Unquote.

Admittedly it does not explicitly state that oil will have run out.
However 'not be enough' does rather imply run out,


Not at all. The supply will not fall to zero. The the price will
rise so that demand is reduced to matc hthe dimishing supply. that
will be very painful.

Eventually the oil price reach a point where it is more economic to
grow oil producing crops instead of food.


Er no..other factors kick in long before that!

Like it being cheaper to synthesise oil from coal, or make it directly
in some other way.



Robert

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On 30 May, 13:01, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
RobertL wrote:
On 29 May, 23:09, Ed Sirett wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2009 07:26:03 +0100, David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2009 18:37:59 +0100 someone who may be "nightjar"
cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote this:-
You only have to read the post that started this thread to see that
some, at least, actively promote that view.
I did read it. I didn't notice anything in that post which said that oil
would run out suddenly.
Quote:
*We have 4 years from now,
until there will not be enough energy for travelling, heating and the
most important for food for everybody of us.
Unquote.


Admittedly it does not explicitly state that oil will have run out.
However 'not be enough' does rather imply run out,


Not at all. *The supply will not fall to zero. * *The *the price will
rise so that demand is reduced to matc hthe dimishing supply. *that
will be very painful.


Eventually the oil price reach a point where it is more economic to
grow oil producing crops instead of food.


Er no..other factors kick in long before that!

Like it being cheaper to synthesise oil from coal, or make it directly
in some other way.


Really? I thought biodiesel was cheaper grow and refine than making
oil by mining coal and making oil from it. But in any case the
relevant question is not whether coal/oil is cheaper than bio/oil.
The question is: is there more profit to be made from growing
biodiesel than growing food.

RoObert

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RobertL wrote:
On 30 May, 13:01, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
RobertL wrote:
On 29 May, 23:09, Ed Sirett wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2009 07:26:03 +0100, David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2009 18:37:59 +0100 someone who may be "nightjar"
cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote this:-
You only have to read the post that started this thread to see that
some, at least, actively promote that view.
I did read it. I didn't notice anything in that post which said that oil
would run out suddenly.
Quote:
We have 4 years from now,
until there will not be enough energy for travelling, heating and the
most important for food for everybody of us.
Unquote.
Admittedly it does not explicitly state that oil will have run out.
However 'not be enough' does rather imply run out,
Not at all. The supply will not fall to zero. The the price will
rise so that demand is reduced to matc hthe dimishing supply. that
will be very painful.
Eventually the oil price reach a point where it is more economic to
grow oil producing crops instead of food.

Er no..other factors kick in long before that!

Like it being cheaper to synthesise oil from coal, or make it directly
in some other way.


Really? I thought biodiesel was cheaper grow and refine than making
oil by mining coal and making oil from it. But in any case the
relevant question is not whether coal/oil is cheaper than bio/oil.
The question is: is there more profit to be made from growing
biodiesel than growing food.

Only if its subsidised.

How much does a litre of rapeseed cost in the supermarket?

Besides, there aint enough arable land..
RoObert

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"RobertL" wrote in message
...
Really? I thought biodiesel was cheaper grow and refine than making
oil by mining coal and making oil from it. But in any case the
relevant question is not whether coal/oil is cheaper than bio/oil.
The question is: is there more profit to be made from growing
biodiesel than growing food.


A LIVERPOOL professor is sending a buzz around the world after he turned
chip fat oil into biofuel - using a microwave.

John Moores University professor Ahmed Al-Shamma is leading the world in
pioneering new microwave technology which could help cut the world's CO²
emissions.
The scientist has been collecting old oil from chip shops, kebab houses and
restaurants and using it to power his car.

He is now confident that, by 2015, the people of Merseyside could be driving
in cars powered by biofuel.

The British Government and European community are so impressed with the work
coming out of the small lab in Liverpool that they have given millions of
pounds in funding.

Prof Al-Shamma, head of RF and Microwave technology in the engineering
research institute, said: "Everyone has heard of biofuel - it's not new, but
using microwave technology is new. It brings all the benefits of sustainable
fuel but without the negatives, the waste byproducts.

And using microwave technology means one source can be used for multiple
applications.

"I have no doubt that, if the Government adapts a zero carbon approach, the
people of Merseyside will be driving around in cars fuelled by biofuel."

Prof Al-Shamma's team, which has drawn experts from across the globe, have
found using microwaves so efficient, they are already testing the mileage
they can get out of the car.

So far, test runs on an X reg (10 years old) VW car have shown dramatic
results which could lower the cost of fuel per litre to a mere 20p.
Explaining the background to the project, Prof Al-Shamma said: "Traditional
biofuel mixes crops, methanol and a catalyst for between four to eight
hours - you end up with biofuel and a waste product, glycerin.

"But there are huge negatives; the hunt for crops has meant many Third World
countries have been paid more to grow biofuel crops than regular eating
crops.
"This has led to huge food shortages.

"Also, the solvent used is very expensive and the process takes a long
time."You end up with the biofuel but also have tonnes of glycerin. There's
only so much soap that the world needs from glycerin, so the rest ends up in
waste sites." He added: "This process is different; the raw material is
everywhere, think of all the fast food outlets and restaurants.

"At the moment, people have to pay to get rid of this and it ends up in
waste sites or contaminating sewerage; this way, there could never be enough
waste oil.
"The solvent used is on a three to one ratio, reducing it by 10 fold, it
requires 30 times less catalyst and the process takes a maximum of 15
minutes.

"One litre of oil makes one litre of biofuel - like for like - with less
glycerin, which we then use to make an additive to skim off the biofuel and
start the recycling process."
Nowhere else in the world is using this technology and his work has led to
Prof Al-Shamma addressing European leaders in the EU Parliament. He added:
"I think this will be the future because the big oil industry players are
investing in biofuel."

And Prof Al-Shamma's microwave technology doesn't only stop at vegetable
oil. The university has been given £580,000 to turn grass into LPG (Liquid
Petroleum Gas).
The university is hoping to take polluted, infertile grass and weeds from
brownfield sites and break down the sugar to create bio-ethanol.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/...2534-23704319/

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"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

Actually, I have found some work being done by one university (not
Cambridge) on the environmental impact of a number of estuary barrier
schemes in the Irish Sea. Between them they would significantly
increase the global capacity of tidal generation, but on nothing like
the scale he claims.

That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is.

No.


Again..."That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is".


As I have said before repeating something


Again..."That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is".



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On Sat, 30 May 2009 04:30:41 -0700, RobertL wrote:

On 29 May, 23:09, Ed Sirett wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2009 07:26:03 +0100, David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2009 18:37:59 +0100 someone who may be "nightjar"
cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote this:-


You only have to read the post that started this thread to see that
some, at least, actively promote that view.


I did read it. I didn't notice anything in that post which said that
oil would run out suddenly.


Quote:
Â*We have 4 years from now,
until there will not be enough energy for travelling, heating and the
most important for food for everybody of us. Unquote.

Admittedly it does not explicitly state that oil will have run out.
However 'not be enough' does rather imply run out,


Not at all. The supply will not fall to zero. The the price will
rise so that demand is reduced to matc hthe dimishing supply. that will
be very painful.


I don't think the changes will be as dramatic as the OP and some others
have stated or implied.

The supply falls the price goes up. There is pressure to adjust the
situation on BOTH the supply and the demand sides to ease the situation.

There are short medium and long term effects on both supply and demand:

Short term: More cost conscious usage, less wastage.
Stored reserves are sold.

Medium term: Better appliances/vehicles are purchased, policy decisions
to use less are made. OPEC countries increase output, output restarts
from "mothballed" wells where the production economics are now favoured.

Long term: Other sources of energy are chosen and developed.
New reserves are drilled (there's a stack of oil around the UK at $150/
barrel) , tar sands, deeper off shore and other less economic sources are
brought into operation.
Other ways of producing oil are developed.

The volatility of oil prices in recent years is more due to specific
factors like wars, refining capacity and market stampedes/speculation
than a genuine lack of supply (for the north of the world).

The idea that the world will be in crisis in few years is plain nonsense,
there are already enough crises anyway.

--
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In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

"RobertL" wrote in message
...
Really? I thought biodiesel was cheaper grow and refine than making
oil by mining coal and making oil from it. But in any case the
relevant question is not whether coal/oil is cheaper than bio/oil.
The question is: is there more profit to be made from growing
biodiesel than growing food.


A LIVERPOOL professor is sending a buzz around the world after he
turned chip fat oil into biofuel - using a microwave.

John Moores University professor Ahmed Al-Shamma is leading the world in
pioneering new microwave technology which could help cut the world's
CO² emissions.


Now I know its going to be accurate and scientific ...


And Prof Al-Shamma's microwave technology doesn't only stop at
vegetable oil. The university has been given £580,000 to turn grass
into LPG (Liquid Petroleum Gas).
The university is hoping to take polluted, infertile grass and weeds
from brownfield sites and break down the sugar to create bio-ethanol.


Stick it in a cow and collect the fart gas ...




more dross from drivel, eh ?

--
geoff
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On 30 May, 21:16, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
RobertL wrote:
On 30 May, 13:01, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
RobertL wrote:
On 29 May, 23:09, Ed Sirett wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2009 07:26:03 +0100, David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2009 18:37:59 +0100 someone who may be "nightjar"
cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote this:-
You only have to read the post that started this thread to see that
some, at least, actively promote that view.
I did read it. I didn't notice anything in that post which said that oil
would run out suddenly.
Quote:
*We have 4 years from now,
until there will not be enough energy for travelling, heating and the
most important for food for everybody of us.
Unquote.
Admittedly it does not explicitly state that oil will have run out.
However 'not be enough' does rather imply run out,
Not at all. *The supply will not fall to zero. * *The *the price will
rise so that demand is reduced to matc hthe dimishing supply. *that
will be very painful.
Eventually the oil price reach a point where it is more economic to
grow oil producing crops instead of food.
Er no..other factors kick in long before that!


Like it being cheaper to synthesise oil from coal, or make it directly
in some other way.


Really? *I thought biodiesel was cheaper grow and refine than *making
oil by mining coal and making oil from it. *But in any case the
relevant question is not whether coal/oil is cheaper than bio/oil.
The question is: is there more profit to be made from growing
biodiesel than growing food.


Only if its subsidised.

How much does a litre of rapeseed cost in the supermarket?

Besides, there aint enough arable land..



Well, that was the point I was making. Once the price of oil reaches
the point that a famer can make more money growing oil than food we
will see the price of food rise to compete for arable land against
oil.
Robert

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RobertL wrote:
On 30 May, 21:16, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
RobertL wrote:
On 30 May, 13:01, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
RobertL wrote:
On 29 May, 23:09, Ed Sirett wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2009 07:26:03 +0100, David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2009 18:37:59 +0100 someone who may be "nightjar"
cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote this:-
You only have to read the post that started this thread to see that
some, at least, actively promote that view.
I did read it. I didn't notice anything in that post which said that oil
would run out suddenly.
Quote:
We have 4 years from now,
until there will not be enough energy for travelling, heating and the
most important for food for everybody of us.
Unquote.
Admittedly it does not explicitly state that oil will have run out.
However 'not be enough' does rather imply run out,
Not at all. The supply will not fall to zero. The the price will
rise so that demand is reduced to matc hthe dimishing supply. that
will be very painful.
Eventually the oil price reach a point where it is more economic to
grow oil producing crops instead of food.
Er no..other factors kick in long before that!
Like it being cheaper to synthesise oil from coal, or make it directly
in some other way.
Really? I thought biodiesel was cheaper grow and refine than making
oil by mining coal and making oil from it. But in any case the
relevant question is not whether coal/oil is cheaper than bio/oil.
The question is: is there more profit to be made from growing
biodiesel than growing food.

Only if its subsidised.

How much does a litre of rapeseed cost in the supermarket?

Besides, there aint enough arable land..



Well, that was the point I was making. Once the price of oil reaches
the point that a famer can make more money growing oil than food we
will see the price of food rise to compete for arable land against
oil.
Robert

Happened last year. Food riots.
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nightjar cpb@ wrote:

What I have been completely unable to find is anything to support his
claims.


Neither has he, so no change there then...

--
Cheers,

John.

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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Bomb making material is massively hard to refine, hence you build a fast
breededr to make plutonium, BUT a fast breeder is a uniquely different
animal, and easy to spot under international inspection.


We should build some FBRs as well...

The weapons/proliferation argument is a straw man anyway - we already
have them.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

Actually, I have found some work being done by one university (not
Cambridge) on the environmental impact of a number of estuary barrier
schemes in the Irish Sea. Between them they would significantly
increase the global capacity of tidal generation, but on nothing like
the scale he claims.

That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is.

No.

Again..."That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is".


As I have said before repeating something


Again..."That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is".


I really would like to know exactly what you think you achieve by selective
trimming of my posts, removing all context, then tacking on an inaccurate
claim of your own.

BTW, for the record, I do know the difference between a tidal barrier scheme
and a tidal lagoon, as would be obvious from an untrimmed version of my
earlier post. It is simply that the tidal barrier scheme was the *only*
reference I could find to any significant scheme being considered for the
Irish Sea. Of course, if you know different, you only have to post a link to
prove it.

Colin Bignell


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nightjar cpb@ wrote:
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...
"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...
"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...
"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

Actually, I have found some work being done by one university (not
Cambridge) on the environmental impact of a number of estuary barrier
schemes in the Irish Sea. Between them they would significantly
increase the global capacity of tidal generation, but on nothing like
the scale he claims.
That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is.
No.
Again..."That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is".
As I have said before repeating something

Again..."That indicates you do not know what a tidal lagoon is".


I really would like to know exactly what you think you achieve by selective
trimming of my posts, removing all context, then tacking on an inaccurate
claim of your own.


He is the Duchess's baby. He only does it to annoy, because he knows it
teases. It reassures him that as pathetic as he is, he can still make a
difference to someone.

My Advice: Kill file.

Life's too short for this bib dribble.


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"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

"RobertL" wrote in message
...
Really? I thought biodiesel was cheaper grow and refine than making
oil by mining coal and making oil from it. But in any case the
relevant question is not whether coal/oil is cheaper than bio/oil.
The question is: is there more profit to be made from growing
biodiesel than growing food.


A LIVERPOOL professor is sending a buzz around the world after he turned
chip fat oil into biofuel - using a microwave.

John Moores University professor Ahmed Al-Shamma is leading the world in
pioneering new microwave technology which could help cut the world's CO²
emissions.


Now I know its going to be accurate and scientific ...


Maxie, how do you know?

And Prof Al-Shamma's microwave technology doesn't only stop at vegetable
oil. The university has been given £580,000 to turn grass into LPG (Liquid
Petroleum Gas).
The university is hoping to take polluted, infertile grass and weeds from
brownfield sites and break down the sugar to create bio-ethanol.


Stick it in a cow and collect the fart gas ...


Maxie, how do you do that?

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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

He is the Duchess's baby.


You need tagging.



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"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
nightjar cpb@ wrote:

What I have been completely unable to find is anything to support his
claims.


Neither


Says the tattooed Essex Chav.

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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
nightjar cpb@ wrote:

....
I really would like to know exactly what you think you achieve by
selective trimming of my posts, removing all context, then tacking on an
inaccurate claim of your own.


He is the Duchess's baby. He only does it to annoy, because he knows it
teases. It reassures him that as pathetic as he is, he can still make a
difference to someone.


I find it silly, rather than annoying. However, this post has now moved too
far down the group for me to be bothered to keep trying to find it again, so
he can have it to himself.

It is a pity really. I would have ben interested if there had been anything
like the scheme he described under consideration.

Colin Bignell


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nightjar cpb@ wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
nightjar cpb@ wrote:

...
I really would like to know exactly what you think you achieve by
selective trimming of my posts, removing all context, then tacking on an
inaccurate claim of your own.

He is the Duchess's baby. He only does it to annoy, because he knows it
teases. It reassures him that as pathetic as he is, he can still make a
difference to someone.


I find it silly, rather than annoying. However, this post has now moved too
far down the group for me to be bothered to keep trying to find it again, so
he can have it to himself.

It is a pity really. I would have ben interested if there had been anything
like the scheme he described under consideration.

Oh. what was that? he's killfiled here so I don't get tempted to get
sucked into a pointless dialogue.

I've met people like that..they soak up half misunderstood ideas from
all over and regurgitate it all mixed up. There's usually a source
somewhere, but its been bent to suit the prejudices of the babbler, so
far that for all practical purposes its useless.


Colin Bignell


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The message
from "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk contains these words:

I find it silly, rather than annoying. However, this post has now moved too
far down the group for me to be bothered to keep trying to find it
again, so
he can have it to himself.


It is a pity really. I would have ben interested if there had been anything
like the scheme he described under consideration.


I suspect a number of us would be interested in details of a real scheme
but all indications are that this particular scheme exists only in
Dribble's fantasy world where the normal rules of science and commerce
do not apply.

--
Roger Chapman
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Roger wrote:
The message
from "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk contains these words:

I find it silly, rather than annoying. However, this post has now moved too
far down the group for me to be bothered to keep trying to find it
again, so
he can have it to himself.


It is a pity really. I would have ben interested if there had been anything
like the scheme he described under consideration.


I suspect a number of us would be interested in details of a real scheme
but all indications are that this particular scheme exists only in
Dribble's fantasy world where the normal rules of science and commerce
do not apply.

What kills nearly all alternative energy schemes is the energy density.
You need BIG engineering to get megawatts, whereas fossil stuff and
nuclear is far more effective a use of constructional materials and land
area. And generates gigawatts.

Watt for watt, there is a lot more concrete in a windmill than a nuke..

Which makes them greater emitters of carbon..;-)
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