Hi All,

With recent talk of solar battery charging and motorcycle battery
chargers etc I was looking about to see if anyone had an affordable
solution for testing realistic battery capacity out there.

I seemed to keep Googling the IBT-Gold (and Red / Blue) devices and
wondered if anyone had actually used one in anger and what did they
think please?

http://www.actmeters.com/Gold-IBT-2.php
(no connection etc (no pun intended either g))

I'm not sure if I actually understand how it works (the description
looks a bit vague to me) but that may not matter if it actually works
in practice.

They are quite expensive (to me anyway) but with some replacement
motorcycle (and car / golf buggy) batteries now up round the £100 mark
and being involved in that sort of thing with 4 cars, 6 motorbikes and
numerous Leisure / other batteries etc it could be considered an
investment?

There have been many times when a battery might appear to do it's
thing, maybe after a good bench charge etc but it would be (very) nice
to know what it's actual capacity is (other than by doing a
conventional C20 discharge test etc).

Cheers, T i m

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:58:53 +0000, T i m wrote:

I was looking about to see if anyone had an affordable solution for
testing realistic battery capacity out there.

For wet cells the specific gravity of the electrolyte tells you the state
of charge.

http://www.actmeters.com/Gold-IBT-2.php

Cheaper from CPC:

http://cpc.farnell.com/act-meters/go...ter/dp/IN02529

No other comments on how it performs.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 27 Feb, 11:42, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:58:53 +0000, T i m wrote:
I was looking about to see if anyone had an affordable solution for
testing realistic battery capacity out there.

For wet cells the specific gravity of the electrolyte tells you the state
of charge.

State of charge isn't the same as capacity, as the total capacity of
the cell falls with age - s.g. only tells you what proportion of this
total you can still expect, not how big a pot might be available.

The claims for this gadget are clear enough, but it's hard to tell how
accurately this "frequency response" technique maps onto actual
capacity. You'd have to do 100s of long-term discharge cycles to know
for sure, as they do indeed claim to have done.

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:42:37 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:58:53 +0000, T i m wrote:

I was looking about to see if anyone had an affordable solution for
testing realistic battery capacity out there.

For wet cells the specific gravity of the electrolyte tells you the state
of charge.

Understood but very few batteries are wet and accessible these days
(AGM / VRLA / recombination / whatever).

http://www.actmeters.com/Gold-IBT-2.php

Cheaper from CPC:

http://cpc.farnell.com/act-meters/go...ter/dp/IN02529

No other comments on how it performs.

Ok and thanks,

T i m

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 04:29:12 -0800 (PST), Andy Dingley
wrote:

On 27 Feb, 11:42, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:58:53 +0000, T i m wrote:
I was looking about to see if anyone had an affordable solution for
testing realistic battery capacity out there.

For wet cells the specific gravity of the electrolyte tells you the state
of charge.

State of charge isn't the same as capacity, as the total capacity of
the cell falls with age - s.g. only tells you what proportion of this
total you can still expect, not how big a pot might be available.

Hence why I though this capacity meter was a good thing (assuming it
reliably does what it says on the tin etc).

The claims for this gadget are clear enough, but it's hard to tell how
accurately this "frequency response" technique maps onto actual
capacity.

Indeed ... the terms they use in the ad could be bordering on snake
oil if you don't understand them etc (not that I'm suggesting such in
this case etc).


You'd have to do 100s of long-term discharge cycles to know
for sure, as they do indeed claim to have done.

Yep.

I have plotted many a C20 discharge graph (when I was racing EV's) and
it's quite surprising the difference seen between several batteries
from the exact same batch. I would still be happy with such
measurements (variations) taken with said gadget as long as it did
actually reflect the current state of the battery.

Now given enough exposure to any particular spec battery (say SLI
batteries as seen in a typical car garage) you could by using a DVM,
ampere clamp, charger (better with an ammeter) and discharge doodar
get a pretty good feel re the condition of a battery when presented
for 'testing'. But what of those 'summer batteries' that are fine in
summer but can't make it in the winter? Is it just capacity or could
it be underrated for the task or the duty cycle / load?

All the best ..

T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
news
Hi All,

With recent talk of solar battery charging and motorcycle battery
chargers etc I was looking about to see if anyone had an affordable
solution for testing realistic battery capacity out there.

I seemed to keep Googling the IBT-Gold (and Red / Blue) devices and
wondered if anyone had actually used one in anger and what did they
think please?

http://www.actmeters.com/Gold-IBT-2.php
(no connection etc (no pun intended either g))

I'm not sure if I actually understand how it works (the description
looks a bit vague to me) but that may not matter if it actually works
in practice.

They are quite expensive (to me anyway) but with some replacement
motorcycle (and car / golf buggy) batteries now up round the £100 mark
and being involved in that sort of thing with 4 cars, 6 motorbikes and
numerous Leisure / other batteries etc it could be considered an
investment?

There have been many times when a battery might appear to do it's
thing, maybe after a good bench charge etc but it would be (very) nice
to know what it's actual capacity is (other than by doing a
conventional C20 discharge test etc).

Cheers, T i m


I have one of the meters you link to, bought cheap(er) on ebay some time
ago.

I've used it with gel-cell batteries as used in UPSs, car batteries and
leisure batteries, and find it gives an accurate picture of the battery, and
often confirms what I suspect for a battery strugging to start a car etc.
Certainly a new battery gives a far heigher reading that an old one - seems
the meter is doing what it should.

To me it's been a good 'investment', certainly useful to have in the garage.

Alan.

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:49:19 -0000, "AlanD"
wrote:

http://www.actmeters.com/Gold-IBT-2.php
(no connection etc (no pun intended either g))


I have one of the meters you link to, bought cheap(er) on ebay some time
ago.

Ah, good ...

I've used it with gel-cell batteries as used in UPSs, car batteries and
leisure batteries, and find it gives an accurate picture of the battery, and
often confirms what I suspect for a battery strugging to start a car etc.

The sort of stuff I'd use it on as well, great.

Certainly a new battery gives a far heigher reading that an old one - seems
the meter is doing what it should.

Just out of interest, how closely does the thing measure the value of
a new battery, once you have done any conversions etc? ie, Would a
25Ah car battery read ~25Ah from new on the meter?

To me it's been a good 'investment', certainly useful to have in the garage.

Seem like it might need further investigation. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
For wet cells the specific gravity of the electrolyte tells you the
state of charge.

Understood but very few batteries are wet and accessible these days
(AGM / VRLA / recombination / whatever).

Most car ones still are - if you peel off the top label. Then possibly
remove some plastic covers. Underneath are the usual screw in plugs.

--
*It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Just out of interest, how closely does the thing measure the value of
a new battery, once you have done any conversions etc? ie, Would a
25Ah car battery read ~25Ah from new on the meter?

It's hard to say. I recently used it on an old car battery, which was
struggling to turn over the engine even after an overnight charge. The
battery's (original) capacity was 62aH, according to the label. The meter
reported it at 22aH.
The replacement battery was rated at the same capacity however the meter
showed the capacity just under 70aH. I don't know if this is to be
expected - that a brand new battery's capacity is higher than claimed. I
suspect it will soon drop off after regular use to closer to the rated
capacity.

Either way, the meter proved the old battery had had it, and took any doubt
out of the decision to replace it (the owner refused to believe it needed
replacing as it had only been fitted 1 year before!)
- It had been allowed to stand dischaged for several months which would have
damaged it.

Alan.

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:57:29 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
For wet cells the specific gravity of the electrolyte tells you the
state of charge.

Understood but very few batteries are wet and accessible these days
(AGM / VRLA / recombination / whatever).

Most car ones still are - if you peel off the top label. Then possibly
remove some plastic covers. Underneath are the usual screw in plugs.

So not convenient though eh and I'm not sure if that would affect how
it works (the electrolyte recovery etc).

T i m

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:17:00 -0000, "AlanD"
wrote:

Just out of interest, how closely does the thing measure the value of
a new battery, once you have done any conversions etc? ie, Would a
25Ah car battery read ~25Ah from new on the meter?

It's hard to say. I recently used it on an old car battery, which was
struggling to turn over the engine even after an overnight charge. The
battery's (original) capacity was 62aH, according to the label. The meter
reported it at 22aH.

Ok, that sounds good.

The replacement battery was rated at the same capacity however the meter
showed the capacity just under 70aH.

I think they mention something about not taking a real measurement
after the battery has just come off charge.

I don't know if this is to be
expected - that a brand new battery's capacity is higher than claimed. I
suspect it will soon drop off after regular use to closer to the rated
capacity.

I think there could be several variables that could affect the
measurement, like temperature and charge status as mentioned above.

Either way, the meter proved the old battery had had it, and took any doubt
out of the decision to replace it (the owner refused to believe it needed
replacing as it had only been fitted 1 year before!)

;-)

- It had been allowed to stand dischaged for several months which would have
damaged it.

It certainly would have done it any good.

The mate that gave me a 'very expensive' 10Ah SLA battery to play with
mentioned that it had been 'standing for some time, only read about
7V' on his battery tester and that it 'might pick up after a good
charge'. I was very suspicious about it's recovery and that was proven
by the Optimate initially spitting it out then it getting hot and not
ever topping off.

I should have just thrown it in the bin at the outset (at the 7V
point) but thought it might be worth a go.

The other 3 batteries he's since given me all seem to charge and
function ok but I would really like to see what capacity they now are.
No point keeping something supposedly rated at 7Ah if it's actually
only now 1Ah.

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:57:29 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
For wet cells the specific gravity of the electrolyte tells you the
state of charge.

Understood but very few batteries are wet and accessible these days
(AGM / VRLA / recombination / whatever).

Most car ones still are - if you peel off the top label. Then possibly
remove some plastic covers. Underneath are the usual screw in plugs.

So not convenient though eh and I'm not sure if that would affect how
it works (the electrolyte recovery etc).

Doesn't harm to have a look - they're not pressurized or anything. But
don't expect it to need topping up - unless you've had a long running
overcharging situation.

T i m

--
*Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.