A few months back I asked about flickering low energy bulbs when they are
switched off and I was pointed to this:

http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk:80/ind...itle=CFL_Lamps
Occasional flashing
In exceptional cases a CFL will flash occasionally when switched off. This
is due to wiring capacitance passing a tiny current, which gradually charges
the CFL's reservoir capacitor, and after a while it attmpts to start, giving
a momentary flicker.

2 conditions tend to cause this:

a.. an especially long switch wire run
b.. supply switched on the neutral instead of live pole
The question is, is the energy being consumed when the lights supposed to be
off costing me money, ie is it clocking up on my electricity meter. If I am
getting this for nothing fair enough but if I am paying for it what is the
point of a low energy bulb that consumes energy when it is switched off. In
my case it is a constant flicker on three lights that have an light
sensitive security switch.

Kevin

"Zen83237" wrote in message
...

A few months back I asked about flickering low energy bulbs when they are
switched off and I was pointed to this:

http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk:80/ind...itle=CFL_Lamps
Occasional flashing
In exceptional cases a CFL will flash occasionally when switched off. This
is due to wiring capacitance passing a tiny current, which gradually
charges the CFL's reservoir capacitor, and after a while it attmpts to
start, giving a momentary flicker.

2 conditions tend to cause this:

a.. an especially long switch wire run
b.. supply switched on the neutral instead of live pole
The question is, is the energy being consumed when the lights supposed to
be off costing me money, ie is it clocking up on my electricity meter. If
I am getting this for nothing fair enough but if I am paying for it what
is the point of a low energy bulb that consumes energy when it is switched
off. In my case it is a constant flicker on three lights that have an
light sensitive security switch.

Kevin

Better things to worry about surely - like saving the odd bit by a little
less water in the kettle or using the vacuum less - or going faster with it.
If you had conventional bulbs you would not have noticed the small current
flowing through the filamane to power the security switch electronics.

"John" wrote in message
...

"Zen83237" wrote in message
...

A few months back I asked about flickering low energy bulbs when they are
switched off and I was pointed to this:

http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk:80/ind...itle=CFL_Lamps
Occasional flashing
In exceptional cases a CFL will flash occasionally when switched off.
This is due to wiring capacitance passing a tiny current, which gradually
charges the CFL's reservoir capacitor, and after a while it attmpts to
start, giving a momentary flicker.

2 conditions tend to cause this:

a.. an especially long switch wire run
b.. supply switched on the neutral instead of live pole
The question is, is the energy being consumed when the lights supposed to
be off costing me money, ie is it clocking up on my electricity meter. If
I am getting this for nothing fair enough but if I am paying for it what
is the point of a low energy bulb that consumes energy when it is
switched off. In my case it is a constant flicker on three lights that
have an light sensitive security switch.

Kevin

Better things to worry about surely - like saving the odd bit by a little
less water in the kettle or using the vacuum less - or going faster with
it. If you had conventional bulbs you would not have noticed the small
current flowing through the filamane to power the security switch
electronics.

Already don't overfill the kettle, I leave the house dirty to save on power
consumption.

Zen83237 wrote on 20/02/2009 :
If I am getting this for nothing fair enough but if I am paying for it what
is the point of a low energy bulb that consumes energy when it is switched
off. In my case it is a constant flicker on three lights that have an light
sensitive security switch.

You will be paying for the running of the security switch, the
flickering is a by product of this.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
k...
Zen83237 wrote on 20/02/2009 :
If I am getting this for nothing fair enough but if I am paying for it
what is the point of a low energy bulb that consumes energy when it is
switched off. In my case it is a constant flicker on three lights that
have an light sensitive security switch.

You will be paying for the running of the security switch, the flickering
is a by product of this.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Would that be more or less power than the standby on a tv. Seems that there
is another way of saving power here. I hadn't realised that the power to run
a light sensitive switch would power up a CFL bulb.. I just wonder why the
public can't be advised of this problem, if you can call it that. I assumed
that it was a wiring fault.

Zen83237 presented the following explanation :
Would that be more or less power than the standby on a tv.

Much, much less.

Seems that there
is another way of saving power here. I hadn't realised that the power to run
a light sensitive switch would power up a CFL bulb..

Well, it is not actually powering it up is it - it is just flashing
occasionally. Look at it this way - an LED, constantly on and powered
from a small battery, the battery might last a day. The same LED and
battery designed to just flash and the battery would last for months.

I just wonder why the
public can't be advised of this problem, if you can call it that. I assumed
that it was a wiring fault.

The alternative could be lights left on and forgotten about.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Zen83237" wrote in message
...

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
k...
Zen83237 wrote on 20/02/2009 :
If I am getting this for nothing fair enough but if I am paying for it
what is the point of a low energy bulb that consumes energy when it is
switched off. In my case it is a constant flicker on three lights that
have an light sensitive security switch.

You will be paying for the running of the security switch, the flickering
is a by product of this.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Would that be more or less power than the standby on a tv. Seems that
there is another way of saving power here. I hadn't realised that the
power to run a light sensitive switch would power up a CFL bulb.. I just
wonder why the public can't be advised of this problem, if you can call it
that. I assumed that it was a wiring fault.


The issue is not about the CFL Lamp - the issue is that you are needing to
power an electronic device - the security switch. Do you expect it to run on
fresh air? If you dig out the instructions it should tell you it consumes
something - perhaps in the order of 0.2 of a watt. It gets its 'neutral' to
complete its circuit through the electronics of the CFL - or the filament of
a bulb. The bulb would get immeasurably warm as a result - the CFL will give
an occasional flicker.

Before you get paranoid about your TV Standby - look at the spec. Modern
sets are very low - mine is only 0.8 of a watt - not that it gets left on
standby much.

Bigger fish to fry as they say.

(Why don't people reduce the timer setting on their PIR Lights for example)

snip

Before you get paranoid about your TV Standby - look at the spec. Modern
sets are very low - mine is only 0.8 of a watt - not that it gets left on
standby much.


Ha ! Joy ! At last someone who understands the eco bollox about standby
modes, that is continuously thrust at us now ...

OTOH, has anyone looked at how much an LCD TV consumes when it's on,
compared to a modern CRT set ? And plasmas, well ... The backlighting for a
decent size LCD consumes over 100 watts on its own !

Arfa

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 01:14:34 -0000, Arfa Daily wrote:

snip

Before you get paranoid about your TV Standby - look at the spec. Modern
sets are very low - mine is only 0.8 of a watt - not that it gets left on
standby much.


Ha ! Joy ! At last someone who understands the eco bollox about standby
modes, that is continuously thrust at us now ...

The politicians that want TVs etc. not to have standby do not, yet again,
understand this: if TVs had only On and Off, many people would just mute
the sound for the odd half hour between shows - no standby at 1W would
become left on at 100W.

I don't use standby much on the TV but the satellite box is always switched
off if the interval is 15 min. as it's about 15W in 'standby'.

--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.

In article ,
"Arfa Daily" writes:
snip

Before you get paranoid about your TV Standby - look at the spec. Modern
sets are very low - mine is only 0.8 of a watt - not that it gets left on
standby much.


Ha ! Joy ! At last someone who understands the eco bollox about standby
modes, that is continuously thrust at us now ...

It stems from old TV's. If you have a TV well over 10 years old,
it will have a standby of something like 5W - 10W, and depending
on how much you use it, you might find total standby consumption
exceeds the actual viewing consumption. Many countries have had
rules in place for many years now limiting standby power to 1W,
and given TV's are manufactured for use in many different countries,
we all benefit from those rules in any new TV you buy today, even
when we don't actually have such a rule.

We still have problems with items designed for use only in this
(or only a few) countries, which are things like set top boxes.
They often don't significantly reduce consumption in standby
mode.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"John" wrote in message
...

"Zen83237" wrote in message
...

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
k...
Zen83237 wrote on 20/02/2009 :
If I am getting this for nothing fair enough but if I am paying for it
what is the point of a low energy bulb that consumes energy when it is
switched off. In my case it is a constant flicker on three lights that
have an light sensitive security switch.

You will be paying for the running of the security switch, the
flickering is a by product of this.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Would that be more or less power than the standby on a tv. Seems that
there is another way of saving power here. I hadn't realised that the
power to run a light sensitive switch would power up a CFL bulb.. I just
wonder why the public can't be advised of this problem, if you can call
it that. I assumed that it was a wiring fault.


The issue is not about the CFL Lamp - the issue is that you are needing to
power an electronic device - the security switch. Do you expect it to run
on fresh air? If you dig out the instructions it should tell you it
consumes something - perhaps in the order of 0.2 of a watt. It gets its
'neutral' to complete its circuit through the electronics of the CFL - or
the filament of a bulb. The bulb would get immeasurably warm as a result -
the CFL will give an occasional flicker.

Before you get paranoid about your TV Standby - look at the spec. Modern
sets are very low - mine is only 0.8 of a watt - not that it gets left on
standby much.

Bigger fish to fry as they say.

(Why don't people reduce the timer setting on their PIR Lights for
example)
Sorry, please read my post again. Who said "OCCASIONAL" flicker. This is
constant flickering. If this is 0.2 watts, well I don't know. It certainly
gives off a significant amount of light, and by the way is bloody annoying.
If it is only consuming power that has otherwise been used and is not
costing extra then fair enough. But my simple mind tells me if something
emits energy then that energy must come from somewhere. Surely the 0.2 watts
is consumed in the switch. How can the same energy now power up the bulb. If
it does then you have hit on how to solve the world's energy problems. Use
the same power twice over.
If it wasn't so bloody annoying I would live with it. Who says that people
don't reduce their PIR settings. Mine it minimum settings and it still comes
of far too frequently and long before it is anything like dark.

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 19:40:45 UTC, "Zen83237" wrote:

Sorry, please read my post again. Who said "OCCASIONAL" flicker. This is
constant flickering.

How often do you get a flicker? And of what duration?

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In article ,
"Zen83237" writes:

A few months back I asked about flickering low energy bulbs when they are
switched off and I was pointed to this:

http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk:80/ind...itle=CFL_Lamps
Occasional flashing
In exceptional cases a CFL will flash occasionally when switched off. This
is due to wiring capacitance passing a tiny current, which gradually charges
the CFL's reservoir capacitor, and after a while it attmpts to start, giving
a momentary flicker.

2 conditions tend to cause this:

a.. an especially long switch wire run
b.. supply switched on the neutral instead of live pole
The question is, is the energy being consumed when the lights supposed to be
off costing me money, ie is it clocking up on my electricity meter. If I am

Yes, but probably insignificant.

getting this for nothing fair enough but if I am paying for it what is the
point of a low energy bulb that consumes energy when it is switched off. In

A filament lamp will in the same lampholder will cost at least as
much, if not more.

my case it is a constant flicker on three lights that have an light
sensitive security switch.

Probably not designed for CFL lamps.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Zen83237" writes:

A few months back I asked about flickering low energy bulbs when they are
switched off and I was pointed to this:

http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk:80/ind...itle=CFL_Lamps
Occasional flashing
In exceptional cases a CFL will flash occasionally when switched off.
This
is due to wiring capacitance passing a tiny current, which gradually
charges
the CFL's reservoir capacitor, and after a while it attmpts to start,
giving
a momentary flicker.

2 conditions tend to cause this:

a.. an especially long switch wire run
b.. supply switched on the neutral instead of live pole
The question is, is the energy being consumed when the lights supposed to
be
off costing me money, ie is it clocking up on my electricity meter. If I
am

Yes, but probably insignificant.

getting this for nothing fair enough but if I am paying for it what is
the
point of a low energy bulb that consumes energy when it is switched off.
In

A filament lamp will in the same lampholder will cost at least as
much, if not more.

my case it is a constant flicker on three lights that have an light
sensitive security switch.

Probably not designed for CFL lamps.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

I see, the Government in their wisdom are phasing out filament bulbs, maybe
they need to tell industry making the fittings and switches then.

Zen83237 wrote:

I see, the Government in their wisdom are phasing out filament bulbs,
maybe they need to tell industry making the fittings and switches then.

Well the instructions with the last few PIR lights I bought specifically
said that CFL's were not suitable for use with them.

--
Mike Clarke

"Mike Clarke" wrote in message
et...
Zen83237 wrote:

I see, the Government in their wisdom are phasing out filament bulbs,
maybe they need to tell industry making the fittings and switches then.

Well the instructions with the last few PIR lights I bought specifically
said that CFL's were not suitable for use with them.

--
Mike Clarke

As indeed we have discussed in other threads, that they are not suitable for
use in many applications.

Arfa

"Mike Clarke" wrote in message
et...
Zen83237 wrote:

I see, the Government in their wisdom are phasing out filament bulbs,
maybe they need to tell industry making the fittings and switches then.

Well the instructions with the last few PIR lights I bought specifically
said that CFL's were not suitable for use with them.

--
Mike Clarke

With respect this is not a PIR, a room switch with inbuild light sensor to
switch the lights on a dusk for predetermined interval.

Zen83237 wrote:


"Mike Clarke" wrote in message
et...
Zen83237 wrote:

I see, the Government in their wisdom are phasing out filament bulbs,
maybe they need to tell industry making the fittings and switches then.

Well the instructions with the last few PIR lights I bought specifically
said that CFL's were not suitable for use with them.

--
Mike Clarke

With respect this is not a PIR, a room switch with inbuild light sensor to
switch the lights on a dusk for predetermined interval.

Fair point, which I'd overlooked.

One reason why PIR's and CFL's don't mix well is that PIR's invariably
switch the lights on for brief periods which is a mode of use that CFL's
are not suited to. Clearly this doesn't apply to dusk to dawn switches.

The other reason why CFL's are a problem with some PIR's is that the sensor
requires a small current to flow through it from line to neutral, the
resistance of a filament bulb is low enough to provide this but a CFL
doesn't provide the right conditions for this with the result that the bulb
may flicker on and off. Domestic dusk to dawn switches sold as replacements
for conventional switches depend on this too and so will not be suited to
use with CFL's. The manufacturers will certainly certainly be aware of it
and ought to point this out.

--
Mike Clarke

"Zen83237" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Zen83237" writes:

A few months back I asked about flickering low energy bulbs when they
are
switched off and I was pointed to this:

http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk:80/ind...itle=CFL_Lamps
Occasional flashing
In exceptional cases a CFL will flash occasionally when switched off.
This
is due to wiring capacitance passing a tiny current, which gradually
charges
the CFL's reservoir capacitor, and after a while it attmpts to start,
giving
a momentary flicker.

2 conditions tend to cause this:

a.. an especially long switch wire run
b.. supply switched on the neutral instead of live pole
The question is, is the energy being consumed when the lights supposed
to be
off costing me money, ie is it clocking up on my electricity meter. If I
am

Yes, but probably insignificant.

getting this for nothing fair enough but if I am paying for it what is
the
point of a low energy bulb that consumes energy when it is switched off.
In

A filament lamp will in the same lampholder will cost at least as
much, if not more.

my case it is a constant flicker on three lights that have an light
sensitive security switch.

Probably not designed for CFL lamps.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

I see, the Government in their wisdom are phasing out filament bulbs,
maybe they need to tell industry making the fittings and switches then.


There's unfortunately not much "wisdom" there. Just a bunch of ill-informed
green mist-inspired eco-bollox ... (as well, of course, as an opportunity
for alternative lighting technology manufacturers, doubtless with
politicians on their boards, to jump on the green gravy train).

Arfa

Zen83237 wrote:
A few months back I asked about flickering low energy bulbs when they are
switched off and I was pointed to this:

http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk:80/ind...itle=CFL_Lamps
Occasional flashing
In exceptional cases a CFL will flash occasionally when switched off. This
is due to wiring capacitance passing a tiny current, which gradually charges
the CFL's reservoir capacitor, and after a while it attmpts to start, giving
a momentary flicker.

2 conditions tend to cause this:

a.. an especially long switch wire run
b.. supply switched on the neutral instead of live pole
The question is, is the energy being consumed when the lights supposed to be
off costing me money, ie is it clocking up on my electricity meter. If I am
getting this for nothing fair enough but if I am paying for it what is the
point of a low energy bulb that consumes energy when it is switched off. In
my case it is a constant flicker on three lights that have an light
sensitive security switch.

Kevin

You pay for it, but you're still better off. Lets take a rough
estimate, say the flicker lasts 1/20th second, and it happens once a
minute. So thats 3 seconds worth per hour, or 72 seconds per day. 0.02
hrs at maybe 15w = 0.0003kW/day,
at a cost of 0.0036p per day.

But this current will flow regardless of what type of bulb you use,
fitting a filament lamp won't save you that 0.0036p. So sorry to
disappoint


NT

wrote in message
...
Zen83237 wrote:
A few months back I asked about flickering low energy bulbs when they are
switched off and I was pointed to this:

http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk:80/ind...itle=CFL_Lamps
Occasional flashing
In exceptional cases a CFL will flash occasionally when switched off.
This
is due to wiring capacitance passing a tiny current, which gradually
charges
the CFL's reservoir capacitor, and after a while it attmpts to start,
giving
a momentary flicker.

2 conditions tend to cause this:

a.. an especially long switch wire run
b.. supply switched on the neutral instead of live pole
The question is, is the energy being consumed when the lights supposed to
be
off costing me money, ie is it clocking up on my electricity meter. If I
am
getting this for nothing fair enough but if I am paying for it what is
the
point of a low energy bulb that consumes energy when it is switched off.
In
my case it is a constant flicker on three lights that have an light
sensitive security switch.

Kevin

You pay for it, but you're still better off. Lets take a rough
estimate, say the flicker lasts 1/20th second, and it happens once a
minute. So thats 3 seconds worth per hour, or 72 seconds per day. 0.02
hrs at maybe 15w = 0.0003kW/day,
at a cost of 0.0036p per day.

But this current will flow regardless of what type of bulb you use,
fitting a filament lamp won't save you that 0.0036p. So sorry to
disappoint


NT

More like 20 times a second. So that would put the cost as about 1200 times
what you suggested.
For example, I would prefer to watch tv with the light off, no glare but it
is like sitting in a room with a giant stroboscope so I keep the light on.
So no savings there then.