I was wondering if it is technically illegal to replace a like for
like gas hob if the bayonate fittings are in the right position and is
just a case of pushing a new one in?

Housemartin coughed up some electrons that declared:

I was wondering if it is technically illegal to replace a like for
like gas hob if the bayonate fittings are in the right position and is
just a case of pushing a new one in?

No - why did you think it would be? Bayonet fittings are designed for end
user operation.

But... you said "hob", not "cooker".

I saw something in Ed's Gas FAQ (IIRC) about fitted hobs and hoses, to the
effect of using hoses is no longer allowed and they should be fully plumbed
in.

Free standing cookers of course use hose and a bayonet connector.

Which one are you referring to?

Cheers

Tim

"Housemartin" wrote in message
...
I was wondering if it is technically illegal to replace a like for
like gas hob if the bayonate fittings are in the right position and is
just a case of pushing a new one in?

Check the manufactures installation instructions.

Unless stated otherwise a flexible connector may be used.

On Feb 9, 8:02*am, Tim S wrote:
Housemartin coughed up some electrons that declared:

I was wondering if it is technically illegal to replace a like for
like gas hob if the bayonate fittings are in the right position and is
just a case of pushing a new one in?

No - why did you think it would be? Bayonet fittings are designed for end
user operation.

Actually, John Stumbles has been commenting on a similar discussion in
uk.legal.moderated. It appears that a new gas cooker does /not/ come
with a bayonet and hose - that has to be fitted by the competent
person that installs the cooker (and checks for adequate ventilation
etc). The bayonet allows the end user to remove the cooker for (eg)
cleaning.

As this was uk.legal.moderated, he quoted chapter and verse for it too.

Martin Bonner wrote:
On Feb 9, 8:02 am, Tim S wrote:
Housemartin coughed up some electrons that declared:

I was wondering if it is technically illegal to replace a like for
like gas hob if the bayonate fittings are in the right position and
is just a case of pushing a new one in?

No - why did you think it would be? Bayonet fittings are designed
for end user operation.

Actually, John Stumbles has been commenting on a similar discussion in
uk.legal.moderated. It appears that a new gas cooker does /not/ come
with a bayonet and hose - that has to be fitted by the competent
person that installs the cooker (and checks for adequate ventilation
etc). The bayonet allows the end user to remove the cooker for (eg)
cleaning.

As this was uk.legal.moderated, he quoted chapter and verse for it
too.

Could do with clarifying if it's a hob or a cooker we're talking about
though. AFAIK, modern hobs don't use flexible bayonet connectors.

Tim

Martin Bonner wrote:
On Feb 9, 8:02 am, Tim S wrote:
Housemartin coughed up some electrons that declared:

I was wondering if it is technically illegal to replace a like for
like gas hob if the bayonate fittings are in the right position and is
just a case of pushing a new one in?
No - why did you think it would be? Bayonet fittings are designed for end
user operation.

Actually, John Stumbles has been commenting on a similar discussion in
uk.legal.moderated. It appears that a new gas cooker does /not/ come
with a bayonet and hose - that has to be fitted by the competent
person that installs the cooker (and checks for adequate ventilation
etc). The bayonet allows the end user to remove the cooker for (eg)
cleaning.

As this was uk.legal.moderated, he quoted chapter and verse for it too.

But OP did not state that the replacement is new. So it just *might* be
a second-hand one with a bayonet and hose already fitted.

(However, someone has to take responsibility for adhering to other
installation requirements - for example, the ventilation needs might not
be met even if it is nearly identical.)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:23:26 +0000, Heliotrope Smith wrote:

Check the manufactures installation instructions.

Unless stated otherwise a flexible connector may be used.

With a hob it would be the other way round: unless the manufacturer's
instructions say a flexible hose is OK, then it's not. Hoses are generally
for appliances that need to be moved, either by the user for cleaning etc
(in which case they usually have a bayonet connection the user can
disconnect) or because installation's virtually impossible otherwise (e.g.
built-in gas ovens which need to be connected to gas & electricity
supplies while pulled out of their kitchen unit, then pushed into place).

And removing an appliance, such as a slot-in cooker, for cleaning and
putting the same one back is OK, but fitting a new (nouveau, even if not
neuf) one is installation, and comes under the Gas Safety and Building
regs.

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Things don't like being anthropomorphised.

On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:02:45 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Housemartin coughed up some electrons that declared:

I was wondering if it is technically illegal to replace a like for like
gas hob if the bayonate fittings are in the right position and is just
a case of pushing a new one in?

No - why did you think it would be? Bayonet fittings are designed for
end user operation.

But... you said "hob", not "cooker".

I saw something in Ed's Gas FAQ (IIRC) about fitted hobs and hoses, to
the effect of using hoses is no longer allowed and they should be fully
plumbed in.

Free standing cookers of course use hose and a bayonet connector.

Which one are you referring to?

Cheers

Tim

Quite so. Unless the makers say DO use a bayonet connector you should not
use one on a hob.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:23:26 +0000, Heliotrope Smith wrote:

Check the manufactures installation instructions.

Unless stated otherwise a flexible connector may be used.

With a hob it would be the other way round: unless the manufacturer's
instructions say a flexible hose is OK, then it's not. Hoses are generally
for appliances that need to be moved, either by the user for cleaning etc
(in which case they usually have a bayonet connection the user can
disconnect) or because installation's virtually impossible otherwise (e.g.
built-in gas ovens which need to be connected to gas & electricity
supplies while pulled out of their kitchen unit, then pushed into place).

And removing an appliance, such as a slot-in cooker, for cleaning and
putting the same one back is OK, but fitting a new (nouveau, even if not
neuf) one is installation, and comes under the Gas Safety and Building
regs.

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Things don't like being anthropomorphised.

It could be that the regs that I use are out of date.

BS 6172:2004 11.1.1 A gas hob shall be connected to the termination point
by means of rigid pipework or, unless stated otherwise in the manufacture's
instructions , a flexible connector and self sealing plug device conforming
to
BS 669.1.

Perhaps someone can point me to the correct regulation.
Thanks in anticipation.

On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 20:32:20 +0000, Heliotrope Smith wrote:

It could be that the regs that I use are out of date.

BS 6172:2004 11.1.1 A gas hob shall be connected to the termination point
by means of rigid pipework or, unless stated otherwise in the manufacture's
instructions , a flexible connector and self sealing plug device conforming
to
BS 669.1.

Perhaps someone can point me to the correct regulation.

That's not in my copy of BS 6172:2004. Mine says:

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""

11 Gas Connections

11.1 General

11.1.1 Only gas installation pipes and connectors of sufficient size to
maintain the maximum heat input of a cooking appliance, as specified by
the appliance manufacturer, shall be used.

11.1.2 A cooking range shall be connected to the termination point with
rigid pipework.

11.1.3 Unless stated otherwise in the manufacturers instructions, a gas
hob shall be connected to the termination point by a rigid fixed
connection.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Hypnotising Hypnotists Can Be Tricky

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 20:32:20 +0000, Heliotrope Smith wrote:

It could be that the regs that I use are out of date.

BS 6172:2004 11.1.1 A gas hob shall be connected to the termination
point
by means of rigid pipework or, unless stated otherwise in the
manufacture's
instructions , a flexible connector and self sealing plug device
conforming
to
BS 669.1.

Perhaps someone can point me to the correct regulation.

That's not in my copy of BS 6172:2004. Mine says:

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""

11 Gas Connections

11.1 General

11.1.1 Only gas installation pipes and connectors of sufficient size to
maintain the maximum heat input of a cooking appliance, as specified by
the appliance manufacturer, shall be used.

11.1.2 A cooking range shall be connected to the termination point with
rigid pipework.

11.1.3 Unless stated otherwise in the manufacturer's instructions, a gas
hob shall be connected to the termination point by a rigid fixed
connection.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Hypnotising Hypnotists Can Be Tricky

Interesting.

I did quote the reg number wrongly. Should have read 11.1.3 and not
11.1.1

What amendment number do you have?

Mine is 16116 5 January 2006.

It would seem that of our copies has been superseded.

On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:28:42 +0000, Heliotrope Smith wrote:

What amendment number do you have?

Mine is 16116 5 January 2006.

It would seem that of our copies has been superseded.

Yes. mine. You're looking at the amended version (which ahem!
coincidentally would seem to be the version floating around as a bootleg
in torrentspace :-)). I was looking at the un-amended 2004 version. The
newer version has the para of interes flagged a having been changed by
the amendment:

[A1 11.1.3 A gas hob shall be connected to the termination point by means
of rigid pipework or, unless stated otherwise in the manufacturers
instructions, a flexible connector and self-sealing plug device conforming
to BS 669-1.A1]

(I wonder if that's what they intended originally and someone just got it
gasp! wrong?)


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

The astronomer married a star

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 01:23:45 +0000, YAPH wrote:

On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:28:42 +0000, Heliotrope Smith wrote:

What amendment number do you have?

Mine is 16116 5 January 2006.

It would seem that of our copies has been superseded.

Yes. mine. You're looking at the amended version (which ahem!
coincidentally would seem to be the version floating around as a bootleg
in torrentspace :-)). I was looking at the un-amended 2004 version. The
newer version has the para of interes flagged a having been changed by
the amendment:

[A1 11.1.3 A gas hob shall be connected to the termination point by
means of rigid pipework or, unless stated otherwise in the
manufacturers instructions, a flexible connector and self-sealing plug
device conforming to BS 669-1.A1]

(I wonder if that's what they intended originally and someone just got
it gasp! wrong?)

That is quite some ammendment. We have gone from don't unless the
manufacturers say you must to do what you like unless the manufacturers
say what you must do.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

Ed Sirett wrote:

That is quite some ammendment. We have gone from don't unless the
manufacturers say you must to do what you like unless the manufacturers
say what you must do.

While both texts are unambiguous when read carefully, they're not
exactly a model of lucidity. Quite possibly the sense of the original
one was accidentally reversed - I've certainly seen that happen when
there's too long a chain between programmers and technical writers and a
complex concept to be defined.

Pete

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:49:04 +0000, Pete Verdon wrote:

Ed Sirett wrote:

That is quite some ammendment. We have gone from don't unless the
manufacturers say you must to do what you like unless the manufacturers
say what you must do.

While both texts are unambiguous when read carefully, they're not
exactly a model of lucidity. Quite possibly the sense of the original
one was accidentally reversed - I've certainly seen that happen when
there's too long a chain between programmers and technical writers and a
complex concept to be defined.

This is made worse by many of the regs forming the law. Many of the laws
are framed in negative terms. I.e. No person shall not... rather than
everyone should.








--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html