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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp
thermometer and I'm thinking to install one.
Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air
temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct
sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to
engine heat. Any tips or ideas?

Don


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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

Donwill wrote :
I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp
thermometer and I'm thinking to install one.
Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air
temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct
sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to
engine heat. Any tips or ideas?


Under the front bumper is the usual place, though my manufacturers
built in one suggests the make some sort of compensation to the figure
displayed. What ever, it seems pretty accurate, with no variation even
when stood in traffic.

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Default Car external temperature sensor location?


"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
k...
Donwill wrote :
I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp
thermometer and I'm thinking to install one.
Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air
temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct
sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to
engine heat. Any tips or ideas?


Under the front bumper is the usual place, though my manufacturers built
in one suggests the make some sort of compensation to the figure
displayed. What ever, it seems pretty accurate, with no variation even
when stood in traffic.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk


Thanks for that Harry, unfortunately my front bumpers are blinking big black
plastic things which probably suck in solar radiation like sponges. Perhaps
I should cover them with aluminised polyester :-) .
Don


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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

In article ,
Donwill popple @diddle .dot wrote:
I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp
thermometer and I'm thinking to install one.
Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air
temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct
sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to
engine heat. Any tips or ideas?


A common place is just behind the front bumper in the wheel well protected
by the liner.

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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

Donwill wrote:
I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp
thermometer and I'm thinking to install one.
Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure
air temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from
direct sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be
exposed to engine heat. Any tips or ideas?

Don


I mounted the sensor of mine below the driver's mirror. Ran the cable
through the door under the hinge and under the footwellmat. Despite the
door being opened and closed around twice a day for 5 years, the cable never
failed. The sensor fell off once when the double-sided sticky tape failed,
but I stuck it back on with some silicone cement.

--
Jeff




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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Donwill popple @diddle .dot wrote:
I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp
thermometer and I'm thinking to install one.
Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air
temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct
sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to
engine heat. Any tips or ideas?


A common place is just behind the front bumper in the wheel well protected
by the liner.

Some Pugs have the sensor in the underside edge of the door mirror.

Bob
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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Donwill popple @diddle .dot wrote:
I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp
thermometer and I'm thinking to install one.
Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air
temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct
sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to
engine heat. Any tips or ideas?


A common place is just behind the front bumper in the wheel well protected
by the liner.

Vauxhall's(well astra's) its fitted to the front bumper on the bottom as
far back as it will go facing the ground, it does pick up the heat from
the road

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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

"Donwill" popple @diddle .dot gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp
thermometer and I'm thinking to install one. Where do they usually
position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air temperature it has
to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct sunlight, have
exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to engine heat.
Any tips or ideas?


Underside of one door mirror's the usual place, or under the front bumper.

The former can be subject to heat-soak when parked, especially on a dark
coloured car, the latter can get a bit chilled on cold wet days or soak
from the rad in heavy traffic.
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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

"Donwill" popple @diddle .dot wrote in message
...
I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp
thermometer and I'm thinking to install one.
Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air
temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct
sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to
engine heat. Any tips or ideas?


My old Renaut had it under the drivers wing mirror. It actually looked like
the paint had run and collected there in a big drip. In fact the kids tried
to pick it off one day when they were washing the car!!!




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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

Huge wrote:
On 2008-11-30, Donwill popple@diddle wrote:

Any tips or ideas?


Mine's in the radiator grill, well in front of the radiator itself.

BTW, many cars may not have a specific sensor. The inlet air temperature is
measured by the fuel injection system, and you could use that value to
drive a low temperature warning.

I dont think that would give a true value ambient value as the venturi
effect will change the temperature(cant remember which way)

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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

Kevin wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2008-11-30, Donwill popple@diddle wrote:

Any tips or ideas?


Mine's in the radiator grill, well in front of the radiator itself.

BTW, many cars may not have a specific sensor. The inlet air
temperature is
measured by the fuel injection system, and you could use that value to
drive a low temperature warning.

I dont think that would give a true value ambient value as the venturi
effect will change the temperature(cant remember which way)

You could well be right. But I think/thought some early examples of
these did exactly that - meaning no requirement for anything extra under
the bonnet (or door mirror!) but giving the driver some impression of
external temperature as a benefit of the inherent working of the engine
management system. Albeit inaccurate.

--
Rod

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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

In article ,
Huge wrote:
On 2008-11-30, Donwill popple@diddle wrote:


Any tips or ideas?


Mine's in the radiator grill, well in front of the radiator itself.


BTW, many cars may not have a specific sensor. The inlet air temperature
is measured by the fuel injection system, and you could use that value
to drive a low temperature warning.


Do you know of one where this is actually the case? That sensor is only
interested in temperature change rather than absolute values.

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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

Kevin gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

BTW, many cars may not have a specific sensor. The inlet air
temperature is measured by the fuel injection system, and you could use
that value to drive a low temperature warning.


I dont think that would give a true value ambient value as the venturi
effect will change the temperature(cant remember which way)


Depends on where it is, and on the conditions.

Once the engine & engine bay are good and hot, it'll be warmer than
ambient. Same on a turbocharged engine, if the sensor's looking at the
compressed air, which it'd need to, since it's the temperature as it
reaches the engine that matters.

OTOH, carb icing is a fine practical demonstration of the venturi effect
cooling the air down markedly.

Anyway - most cars don't have an inlet air temp sensor these days - they
measure the mass of the incoming air instead via an air mass meter rather
than air flow meter plus inlet air temp.
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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

Huge gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Anyway - most cars don't have an inlet air temp sensor these days -
they measure the mass of the incoming air instead via an air mass meter
rather than air flow meter plus inlet air temp.


Have installed both Megasquirt and Omex ECUs in the recent past, I can
assure you that both these systems have inlet air temperature sensors.
You need them for cold start enrichment, for one thing. (And the Omex on
my TVR doesn't have an air mass meter, either - it does fuelling solely
on throttle position and lambda.)


Yes, they do. MS is very low-tech by modern standards. I know nothing
about the Omex system.

Besides, coolant temp sensors'd normally be used for the cold-start
enrichment.
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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

In article ,
Huge wrote:
Anyway - most cars don't have an inlet air temp sensor these days -
they measure the mass of the incoming air instead via an air mass
meter rather than air flow meter plus inlet air temp.


Have installed both Megasquirt and Omex ECUs in the recent past, I can
assure you that both these systems have inlet air temperature sensors.
You need them for cold start enrichment, for one thing.


I presume it also has a coolant temperature sensor - and it's that one
which does most of the work. The air temp one just for fine tuning.

(And the Omex on
my TVR doesn't have an air mass meter, either - it does fuelling solely
on throttle position and lambda.)


Pretty crude, then?

--
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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

In article ,
Huge wrote:
BTW, many cars may not have a specific sensor. The inlet air temperature
is measured by the fuel injection system, and you could use that value
to drive a low temperature warning.


Do you know of one where this is actually the case?


Nope.


That sensor is only
interested in temperature change rather than absolute values.


It needs to know the absolute temperature for cold start enrichment.


As I said normally the coolant sensor for this. If you think about it that
tells the temperature of the actual engine which effects the mixture
requirements - not the air temp one which shouldn't really sense engine
temp at all. After all you don't need choke on a hot engine on a
cold day. ;-)

--
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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

Donwill wrote:
I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp
thermometer and I'm thinking to install one.
Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air
temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct
sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to
engine heat. Any tips or ideas?

Don



On a Golf GTI whose 'computer' dashboard display has failed, I have
kludged a temperature solution with one of those external/internal
wireless 'weather stations' that Aldi and Lidl sell.

I wrapped the external sensor in duct tape, including wire for
attachment. It is now attached to an air intake just below the bumper.

It reads about two or three degrees high on a very sunny day --- I
assume because the air near the road is warmer than ambient; I think
it's protected from heat radiated from the road; it certainly is from
direct sunlight. It reads quite high some time after I've stopped --- I
guess warm air from the radiator or oil cooler.

Otherwise it performs as required (for about two years now); the sensor
signals seem to have no difficulty getting inside the car. However, long
wave signals for the radio controlled clock are not received inside

Best regards,

Jon C.
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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

Huge gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Pretty crude, then?


Err, no. Air "mass" meters are horrid things, and you don't want one in
the airflow when tuning for maximum power.


The AMM on my car provides virtually no restriction to airflow. Only a
small portion of the flow is measured as it passes through a calibrated
venturi parallel to the main flow.
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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

Huge gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Anyway - most cars don't have an inlet air temp sensor these days -
they measure the mass of the incoming air instead via an air mass
meter rather than air flow meter plus inlet air temp.


Have installed both Megasquirt and Omex ECUs in the recent past, I can
assure you that both these systems have inlet air temperature sensors.
You need them for cold start enrichment, for one thing. (And the Omex
on my TVR doesn't have an air mass meter, either - it does fuelling
solely on throttle position and lambda.)


Yes, they do.


"Yes they do", what?


"Yes, they do", in a "Yes, those two do have IAT sensors" kinda way.

A couple of unusual and very specialised systems which do doesn't
disprove "most don't"
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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

In article ,
Huge wrote:
(And the Omex on my TVR doesn't have an air mass meter, either - it
does fuelling solely on throttle position and lambda.)


Pretty crude, then?


Err, no. Air "mass" meters are horrid things, and you don't want one in
the airflow when tuning for maximum power.


Perhaps you're thinking about the old flap valve type? Modern ones very
little if any resistance to airflow.

--
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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Huge wrote:
(And the Omex on my TVR doesn't have an air mass meter, either - it
does fuelling solely on throttle position and lambda.)

Pretty crude, then?


Err, no. Air "mass" meters are horrid things, and you don't want one in
the airflow when tuning for maximum power.


Perhaps you're thinking about the old flap valve type? Modern ones very
little if any resistance to airflow.


The air mass meter on my car has about half the cross-sectional area of
the air filter or the manifold. I'd say that was offering fairly serious
resistance to airflow. Fortunately third party tuners sell properly
sized AMMs.
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(Steve Firth) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

Err, no. Air "mass" meters are horrid things, and you don't want one
in the airflow when tuning for maximum power.


Perhaps you're thinking about the old flap valve type? Modern ones very
little if any resistance to airflow.


The air mass meter on my car has about half the cross-sectional area of
the air filter or the manifold. I'd say that was offering fairly serious
resistance to airflow. Fortunately third party tuners sell properly
sized AMMs.


....which just shows it's not an inherent issue with the concept of the
AMM...
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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
Perhaps you're thinking about the old flap valve type? Modern ones very
little if any resistance to airflow.


The air mass meter on my car has about half the cross-sectional area of
the air filter or the manifold. I'd say that was offering fairly serious
resistance to airflow. Fortunately third party tuners sell properly
sized AMMs.


The inlet tract is always constricted somewhere. Removing that restriction
can make the vehicle run worse. If it improves things it's a poor design.

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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The inlet tract is always constricted somewhere. Removing that restriction
can make the vehicle run worse. If it improves things it's a poor design.


It's as if Harry Weslake had never been born.
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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
The inlet tract is always constricted somewhere. Removing that
restriction can make the vehicle run worse. If it improves things it's
a poor design.


It's as if Harry Weslake had never been born.


He did understand inlet tract tuning. You should read up on him.

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Default Car external temperature sensor location?

On 30 Nov 2008 11:53:26 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2008-11-30, Donwill popple@diddle wrote:

Any tips or ideas?


Mine's in the radiator grill, well in front of the radiator itself.

BTW, many cars may not have a specific sensor. The inlet air temperature is
measured by the fuel injection system, and you could use that value to
drive a low temperature warning.


Not always, in the case of the car I was driving yesterday, with
ambient temperatures around 0 deg C and compacted frozen snow and ice
on the road, the engine management diagnostics tool I had plugged in
was showing a (true) mass air temperature of around 30 deg C.

That's what you get when you have a turbo compressing the air to
approximately two atmospheres and a heap of snow blocking up the
intercooler duct


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