UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 59
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

I have been given a new electric meter. Its 10 foot above my head so reading
it is a exercise in logistics anyway. I have to climb up and try to see it
but each display only stays on for a few seconds when you press them.

Its white, the main face shows a single reading which constantly tics over.

To find out what is what you have to get up and press a blue button at the
top of the meter.

This then gives ( no order here because I cant recall now)
a) a date
press again
b) a time
press again
c a reading marked R
press again
d) a reading marked T

Can someone tell me which T and R stand for ? Which is day and which is
night.
I am trying to read this meter because there is something wrong with the
way its reading ( or something wrong with the house wiring) because I am
using 200 quids worth of electric a month and I have nothing on. It seems
to be something coming on at night or the night readings are out (
according to the bill) but I dont know which is which any more.

It used to be N and L and you could see them both clearly on the old meter.
Now I cant see anything and I don't which is which.

So does anyone have one of these meters and can they tell me what R and T
mean? Which is day and which is night.?

Thank you

  #2   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 850
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

I have been given a new electric meter. Its 10 foot above my head so reading
it is a exercise in logistics anyway. I have to climb up and try to see it


Ask them to come back and mount it somewhere more suitable aka safe to
access - you consider it to be a safety risk where it is, and will go
through the HSE if they don't...

It should be within 6 feet of the incoming supply / main fuse, on the
same wall (ideally), so hopefully that would give scope for it to be
resited. You also want an isolator fitting so you can work on your own
equipment without having to call them out to pull the main fuse.

You may find you'll have to provide your own tails from the consumer
unit to the isolator switch.
  #3   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 850
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

I am trying to read this meter because there is something wrong with the
way its reading ( or something wrong with the house wiring) because I am
using 200 quids worth of electric a month and I have nothing on.


If you have an isolator switch, switch it off, and see if it's still
recording use.

Are you in a flat, or otherwise shared accomodation of any sort ? - it
could be that the wiring is unbeknownst to you, shared with another.

Take readings now, photograph them if possible, holding a newspaper so
that the date is showing.

Check if the meter is using units against both readings - it could be
that their timeswitch or radio telemeter (switches on receipt of a
radio signal) is knackered.
  #4   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 59
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)


"Colin Wilson" o.uk wrote
in message g...
I am trying to read this meter because there is something wrong with the
way its reading ( or something wrong with the house wiring) because I am
using 200 quids worth of electric a month and I have nothing on.


If you have an isolator switch, switch it off, and see if it's still
recording use.

Are you in a flat, or otherwise shared accomodation of any sort ? - it
could be that the wiring is unbeknownst to you, shared with another.

Take readings now, photograph them if possible, holding a newspaper so
that the date is showing.

Check if the meter is using units against both readings - it could be
that their timeswitch or radio telemeter (switches on receipt of a
radio signal) is knackered.


Thankyou all for the advice. I have now worked out that R stands for day
rate and T is night rate.
I have systematically switched everything off and established the problems
may lie with one storage heater which unfortunately tends to be the one
that has been kept on most of the year ( its unseasonably cold and
permanently raining).

Its now switched off and the meter has dropped to 20 units use overnight
( and that includes the water heater/ immersion which comes on for two
hours.) . Day usage being 16 but we had an electric fire on because of the
cold yesterday. That is significantly lower than it was running.

If I extrapolate the figures for 90 days that would give a night usage of
18473 units. The bill for last quarter showed a usage of 5268 overnight.
You can see why I am worried!

The day rate works out roughly right given that yesterday was a Sunday and
usage was higher. During the week nothing much would be used during the day
( with the heating on at night the fire would not have been in use either).

I need to get new heaters ( the ones I have are 1978 vintage)

Before anyone says anything...... Gas and LPG are not options here. No mains
gas and nowhere to site the LPG tanks with H&S regulations. The price of oil
makes that not worth the outlay. I will probably have to open up a fire
place and put coal in although the cost of that is considerable now ( having
checked it recently and noted that several of my neighbours have just put in
storage heaters changing from oil) or find cheaper heaters.

  #5   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,369
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)



"endymion" wrote in message
...

Before anyone says anything...... Gas and LPG are not options here. No
mains gas and nowhere to site the LPG tanks with H&S regulations. The
price of oil makes that not worth the outlay. I will probably have to
open up a fire place and put coal in although the cost of that is
considerable now ( having checked it recently and noted that several of my
neighbours have just put in storage heaters changing from oil) or find
cheaper heaters.


Have a look at air sourced heat pumps (e.g. the air conditioners in B&Q but
find somewhere better).
You get about three times as much heat out as the power you put in and they
don't cost that much.
Bear in mind they will cost you more if you use them to cool in the summer.



  #6   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,085
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:44:57 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Have a look at air sourced heat pumps (e.g. the air conditioners in B&Q
but find somewhere better). You get about three times as much heat out
as the power you put in and they don't cost that much.


A thought but night storage heaters use electricity that is about 1/3 the
cost of the electric during the day... Overall you might not make any
savings on running costs. It would be possible to change to a non-E7
tarrif though and get all power at a price about double the night rate and
2/3 the day rate.

Air sourced might not work that well in the winter, tendancy to ice up but
would be more flexable than night storage heaters. Heat when you want it.
Having said that some modern storage heaters are much more sophisticated
and better insulated than old ones. They allow you to set when you want
the heat. So no more sudden cold snaps and the things running out of heat
early evening or sudden warm periods and having to open the windows...

Swings and roundabouts.

As to LPG or oil, probably wise to avoid ATM. Crude prices have fallen
recently, now about $110/barrel from $140 in July. 28sec oil has dropped
but is still around 52p/l.

--
Cheers
Dave.



  #7   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,085
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:08:15 +0100, endymion wrote:

I will probably have to open up a fire place and put coal in although
the cost of that is considerable now


Probably better to put in a wood burner or multifuel stove with a boiler.
Much better at getting the heat where you want it than an open fire. You
will need space to store the fuel though.

(having checked it recently and noted that several of my neighbours have
just put in storage heaters changing from oil)


Not surprised oil is almost but not quite the same cost as normal domestic
electricity these days. I don't like storage heaters though, mainly for
the reasons outlined in another message. A "cold snap" up here means
overnight mins of -10C... The cottage (all electric) needs new heaters, so
I'll be looking at the more sophisticated ones for that.

or find cheaper heaters.


To maintain a given temperature in a given room you'll need the same
energy input no matter it's source, you just need to try and pick the
cheapest. Un fortunately no energy source is particularly cheap anymore.

--
Cheers
Dave.



  #8   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 754
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

On 18 Aug, 09:08, "endymion" wrote:
"Colin Wilson" o.uk wrote
in ella.org...





I am trying to read this meter because *there is something wrong with the
way its reading ( or something wrong with the house wiring) because *I am
using 200 quids worth of electric a month and I have nothing on.


If you have an isolator switch, switch it off, and see if it's still
recording use.


Are you in a flat, or otherwise shared accomodation of any sort ? - it
could be that the wiring is unbeknownst to you, shared with another.


Take readings now, photograph them if possible, holding a newspaper so
that the date is showing.


Check if the meter is using units against both readings - it could be
that their timeswitch or radio telemeter (switches on receipt of a
radio signal) is knackered.


Thankyou all for the advice. I have now worked out that R stands for day
rate and T is night rate.
I have systematically switched everything off *and established the problems
may lie with *one storage heater which unfortunately tends to be the one
that has been kept on most of the year ( its unseasonably cold and
permanently raining).

Its now switched off and *the meter has dropped to 20 units use overnight
( and that includes the water heater/ immersion which comes on for two
hours.) . Day *usage being 16 but we had an electric fire on because of the
cold yesterday. That is significantly lower than it was running.

If I extrapolate the figures for 90 days that would give a night usage of
18473 units. *The bill for last quarter showed a usage of 5268 overnight.

  #9   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,085
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 01:52:46 +0100, dave wrote:

Good advice but beware the standing charge for "tariff that is not
E7".


With very few exceptions *all* tarrifs have a standing charge of some
sort. Either directly stated as so many pence/day or by paying a premium
for the first n units per billing period. The amount of the "standing
charge" by either method is usually the same or within a penny or so.

Cost of power between a "standing charge" and "no standing charge"
versions of the same nominal tarrif are also the same, though I have a
sneaky feeling that some do have a little variation these days. The only
way to be sure is check the details of the tarrifs with the supplier.

btw I have not received an electricity bill for the past 3 quarters
even though have written and asked for one (3)!


How are you paying? If you haven't had a bill how do you know you are a)
paying the right company b) how much to pay them and c) the amount is
correct for your useage/tarrif?

If by Direct Debit stop it with your bank, don't tell the supplier. That
will normally make them sit up an pay proper attention within a week.

--
Cheers
Dave.



  #10   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 59
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)


"dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:58:04 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:44:57 +0100, dennis@home wrote:



Good advice but beware the standing charge for "tariff that is not
E7". At present I'm (still) trying to sort out why I have a 20% hike
(in one quarter) for my night storage heaters, while the other meter
(for everything else, was only about 2%!
A cynic (i.e. me) might think the elec co want me to switch to E7.
btw I have not received an electricity bill for the past 3 quarters
even though have written and asked for one (3)!
When is it EnergyWatch to get the chop again :-) or rather :-(


I see one or two of you may know something about storage heaters. Mine are
many years old. I do not plan on changing them all but I am pretty sure the
meter is being hiked by one particular one which is broken.

I could try and repair it / have it repaired ( thermostat I think) but it
is a solder job in this heater and I cannot say I can do that, and I have
to find the part. I cant seem to find one . A 1979 heater is probably
defunct.

I am looking at a new one for replacement. I have seen Creda ( same make
as current but not the same make because Creda is no longer TI) . A Robinson
Willey, a Sunhouse, a Dimplex ( I have two smaller dimplex already and have
to say they do not impress me but.... ) and something called an Elnur.

Other than it has to be 3.4 KW to replace the existing, has anyone any
recommendations for make?



  #11   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 850
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

The equipower ones don't have a standing charge. I've recently changed my gas
to them


I've been with them for a couple of years now for both gas and elec -
very impressed with how clearly the bills are laid out* and the
telephone service that lets you put in your current reading works
brilliantly.

*I work with someone involved with the Plain English Campaign, and I
nominated Ebico for both the bills (c/o Southern) and their website
  #12   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,285
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

endymion wrote:

I see one or two of you may know something about storage heaters. Mine
are many years old. I do not plan on changing them all but I am pretty
sure the meter is being hiked by one particular one which is broken.


It's highly unlikely that a storage heater will fail in such a way as to
draw too much power. That would need a partial short-circuit in one of
the elements, which, if it did happen, would rapidly lead to self
destruction of the element, ending either in an open-circuit condition,
or a dead short across the supply (or to earth) and a blown fuse. It's
possible that the input charge thermostat could stick closed but you'd
notice that by a rise in the room temperature, or if the heater core
became too hot the overheat trip would operate, cutting off power to the
whole appliance.

Most storage heater faults are "not working" or "low-output" due to
open-circuit elements or operation of the overheat trip.

In an earlier post you said

If I extrapolate the figures for 90 days that would give a night
usage of 18473 units


That's an average of 205 kWh/day, or 8.5 kW continuous (24 hr) loading,
or 29 kW loading (120 amps!) over 7 hours. There's no way on earth that
a single faulty storage heater could account for consumption like that.

Other than it has to be 3.4 KW to replace the existing, has anyone any
recommendations for make?


There's probably not a lot to choose between different makes, their
construction tending to be similar. It is worth getting the 'automatic'
type though, with a room temperature sensing thermostat. Otherwise just
look for a good price. I've got two Unidare ones in my workshop
outbuilding. These were bought s/h (but only about one year old) and
have been trouble-free for the last 12 years or so, touch wood.

http://www.storageheater.co.uk/ might be of interest.

--
Andy
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 59
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)


"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
endymion wrote:



It's highly unlikely that a storage heater will fail in such a way as to
draw too much power. That would need a partial short-circuit in one of
the elements, which, if it did happen, would rapidly lead to self
destruction of the element, ending either in an open-circuit condition, or
a dead short across the supply (or to earth) and a blown fuse. It's
possible that the input charge thermostat could stick closed but you'd
notice that by a rise in the room temperature, or if the heater core
became too hot the overheat trip would operate, cutting off power to the
whole appliance.

Most storage heater faults are "not working" or "low-output" due to
open-circuit elements or operation of the overheat trip.

In an earlier post you said

If I extrapolate the figures for 90 days that would give a night
usage of 18473 units


That's an average of 205 kWh/day, or 8.5 kW continuous (24 hr) loading, or
29 kW loading (120 amps!) over 7 hours. There's no way on earth that a
single faulty storage heater could account for consumption like that.


Well, sorry but it must have done. I dont know how. I can only quote the
fact. I had one heater running to keep the sitting room warm. I have now
switched it off and isolated it. It did show signs of overheating I have to
admit. It was discoloured and I even changed the plug on it a few months ago
when it shorted out and burnt. OK I should have known then. I ignored it.

Since switching that one heater off I am now using on average 3. 5 units of
electric during the day ( same as before ) and 7 units at night. I do have
an emersion heater running and a dishwasher that cuts in to wash up at 4.00
am each night which makes that figure up. I sometimes also run my washing
machine at night too

Whilst I cannot disprove what you suggest. Something was wrong and whatever
it was got put right when I turned off that one heater

I have ordered a Robinson Willey auto storage heater for no other reason
than its the only one which is small enough to fit the space it has to go
into. The new heaters are longer than my old one. Its a good price. I
will let you know whether its any good once I have had it and fitted it.



  #14   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,085
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:06:00 +0100, endymion wrote:

If I extrapolate the figures for 90 days that would give a night
usage of 18473 units


That's an average of 205 kWh/day, or 8.5 kW continuous (24 hr) loading,
or 29 kW loading (120 amps!) over 7 hours. There's no way on earth
that a single faulty storage heater could account for consumption like

that.

Well, sorry but it must have done.


No you extrapolated from one nights reading to 90 days. Any error in that
reading would be multiplied 90. Maybe you had a hot bath that night and
the water needed to be on for all of it's 2hrs... and it was a cold night,
IIRC you said you has a fire on as well...

--
Cheers
Dave.



  #15   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 59
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)


"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:06:00 +0100, endymion wrote:

If I extrapolate the figures for 90 days that would give a night
usage of 18473 units

That's an average of 205 kWh/day, or 8.5 kW continuous (24 hr) loading,
or 29 kW loading (120 amps!) over 7 hours. There's no way on earth
that a single faulty storage heater could account for consumption like

that.

Well, sorry but it must have done.


No you extrapolated from one nights reading to 90 days. Any error in that
reading would be multiplied 90. Maybe you had a hot bath that night and
the water needed to be on for all of it's 2hrs... and it was a cold night,
IIRC you said you has a fire on as well...


a) we never take hot baths in this house ( believe me if you saw the bath
you would know why). Havent got round to changing that yet. Its showers all
round and those showers are done on day rate usually.

b) The weather has not warmed up any here. I have had the fire on and it
runs on day rate and pushes that up. No one is up beyond 10.00 pm in the
house. I have looked at that too. On a really bad day ( like Tuesday) we ran
up 10 on the day rate using electric fires and I also cooked that day.

Since the only figure being run up at a high rate according to the bill is
the night rate it has to be the central heating or hot water as those were/
are the only two things running at night and not in the day.

Having switched them off, whatever the figures ( and 5000+ units in three
months speaks for itself surely as opposed to a total of just 800 for three
months on day rate?) they have shown a significant drop in the night rate
usage to less than 10 units a night even when running the washing machine
and dishwasher and even an hour on the tumble dryer.

The day rate remains constant at between 3 and 8 units depending on whether
we have a fire on and whether I cook ( i.e. run the cooker for an hour and a
half cooking cakes etc)

However you want to argue the figures , it doesn't alter the fact that it
was the night rate that was up very high ( 5000+ units a quarter) and that
has been changed by switching one heater off ( the only one that was
actually on at the time) It may not seem reasonable but that is what has
happened.

I cant tell you how its happened and I have made the same arguments to
myself as you have all made here. I can only think that the damned thing
was running 3.5 KW or more all night none stop and it didn't burn out the
circuit or trip any safety cut out ( or even burn the house down - which it
could have done theoretically if that dangerous a state)

Last night I tried putting a different heater on over night and we used
about a £1 of electric in total. It does seem to be the one heater that was
at fault.

I am not here to argue or moan . I had a problem. You kindly helped me and I
have found that problem, read the meter and sorted it out . I still have to
fit this new storage heater this week. That should be interesting as I am
not an electrical expert. I can wire a plug though.

If I look at the figures over the last five days ( I have religiously read
the meter) we are now using roughly 50% more at night than during the day
with the heater on. Which should be about right according to national
averages for efficient running.

I guess I should be thankful it was the night rate being run up. God forbid
that it had been the day rate being lamped by something. Night rate is 4p a
unit. Day rate is 16p a unit ( and 30p for the first 125units) . Just
imagine the hike in bill on 5000 units at 16p a unit.



  #16   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,285
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

endymion wrote:

Having switched them off, whatever the figures ( and 5000+ units in
three months speaks for itself surely as opposed to a total of just 800
for three months on day rate?) they have shown a significant drop in
the night rate usage to less than 10 units a night even when running
the washing machine and dishwasher and even an hour on the tumble dryer.

[...]

However you want to argue the figures , it doesn't alter the fact that
it was the night rate that was up very high ( 5000+ units a quarter)
and that has been changed by switching one heater off ( the only one
that was actually on at the time) It may not seem reasonable but that
is what has happened.


Something just isn't adding up here, even though the night rate
consumption seems to have dropped from an extrapolated 18,000+ units per
quarter to a much more reasonable figure of 5,000(?). 5,000 units over
90 days is 55 per day and with "the heater" switched off this drops to
10. The 45 kWh/day saved implies 6.4 kW load if running for the full 7
hours each day. That perhaps suggests that you've switched off two 3.4
kW size heaters, not one. I'm wondering if you've got two heaters
wired, rather unconventionally, on one final circuit. Certainly your
mention of plugs rings alarm bells as storage heaters should be
permanently wired on dedicated individual circuits (except perhaps for
the smallest size where two per circuit might be OK). The 24 kWh (3.4
kW) size appliance draws over 13 A, so 13 A wiring accessories shouldn't
be used at all, just a 20 A DP switch with flex outlet and a 16 A fuse
or MCB in the consumer unit.

Day rate is 16p a unit


That sounds a bit over the odds.

--
Andy
  #17   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,085
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:48:01 +0100, endymion wrote:

However you want to argue the figures ,


I don't. I was just pointing out that extrapolation to 90 days fro one
nights reading is likely to be very misleading.

Night rate is 4p a unit. Day rate is 16p a unit ( and 30p for the first
125units) . Just imagine the hike in bill on 5000 units at 16p a unit.


I think you need to look around for a better deal. Our Equipower E7 is
4.27 and 13.18 (+ 5% VAT) and no Tier 1 or 2 rubbish or standing charge
either. Have a look at some of the switching sites, going for a paperless,
online, monthly fixed direct debit, standing charge (either daily or Tier
1/2) normally gets you the best prices but you really have to look at the
actual tarrif details and plug them into a spreadsheet with your useage to
see which really is the cheapest. Some tarrifs are now not equal between
daily standing charge and "no standing charge" ie Tier 1/2 even if you use
all the Tier 1 power. Don't trust the switching sites, they make
assumptions that may not apply to you.

--
Cheers
Dave.



  #18   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 59
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)


"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
endymion wrote:



Something just isn't adding up here, even though the night rate
consumption seems to have dropped from an extrapolated 18,000+ units per
quarter to a much more reasonable figure of 5,000(?). 5,000 units over 90
days is 55 per day and with "the heater" switched off this drops to 10.
The 45 kWh/day saved implies 6.4 kW load if running for the full 7 hours
each day. That perhaps suggests that you've switched off two 3.4 kW size
heaters, not one.


I know it doesnt add up. I also know what has happened in terms of the
figures.


I'm wondering if you've got two heaters
wired, rather unconventionally, on one final circuit. Certainly your
mention of plugs rings alarm bells as storage heaters should be
permanently wired on dedicated individual circuits (except perhaps for the
smallest size where two per circuit might be OK).


They are permanently wired. My use of the woprd " plug" means a wall fitting
that takes the wire from the heater and allows it to be switched on. All
the heaters seem to be wired on the correct curicuit. I only had one
heater on. I only had one heater heating up, so even if another one was on
it was not heating up anywhere. I have six heaters in total in the house
but have only ever used five. The sixth is in a position which makes it
impossible to use ( or would make it impossible for me to have a three piece
suite or sofa in the sitting room as it is directly the back of the sofa). I
have never used the sixth heater . Its a Dimplex 1.7 Kw I think.


The 24 kWh (3.4
kW) size appliance draws over 13 A, so 13 A wiring accessories shouldn't
be used at all, just a 20 A DP switch with flex outlet and a 16 A fuse or
MCB in the consumer unit.


Which is more or less what I have

Day rate is 16p a unit


That sounds a bit over the odds.


I wonder where people get their lower figures. Is this a regional thing? I
have checked the electricity charges from different suppliers in the last
week. Whilst Scotush power would come in a fraction cheaper on day rate it
on its cheapest with a price fix till 2009 it would hike my night rate and
would add a standing charge which is higher than my current one. . My only
other choice ( and I am not going to do it) would be to stay manage an
online and paperless billing account. I have to say I have gained a lot
recently from being able to call up and ask about the problems with the
meter reading so I dont want an online account.

There might be cheaper electricity suppliers around but I am guessing they
are not im ny area. I have been told powergen are cheaper but they wont
supply to me. The others are either 4 - 5 p night rate and about 10p day
rate but I believe it has a higher standing charge.
That said, they will not supply here.

  #19   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 59
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)


"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:48:01 +0100, endymion wrote:

However you want to argue the figures ,


I don't. I was just pointing out that extrapolation to 90 days fro one
nights reading is likely to be very misleading.

Night rate is 4p a unit. Day rate is 16p a unit ( and 30p for the first
125units) . Just imagine the hike in bill on 5000 units at 16p a unit.


I think you need to look around for a better deal. Our Equipower E7 is
4.27 and 13.18 (+ 5% VAT) and no Tier 1 or 2 rubbish or standing charge
either.


But I dont have that option. Equpower do not supply to my area. I have
checked. I have the lowest charges I can more or less get without having
to go to paperless billing. I dont nthink that the difference ( about 50 odd
quid a year according to estimates) makes enough difference to loose access
to the suppliers phone helpline. I have found that invaluable recently.

Have a look at some of the switching sites, going for a paperless,
online, monthly fixed direct debit, standing charge (either daily or Tier
1/2) normally gets you the best prices but you really have to look at the
actual tarrif details and plug them into a spreadsheet with your useage to
see which really is the cheapest. Some tarrifs are now not equal between
daily standing charge and "no standing charge" ie Tier 1/2 even if you use
all the Tier 1 power. Don't trust the switching sites, they make
assumptions that may not apply to you.


I have checked with a lot of different sites and worked the figures in many
ways. As I said above other than paperless billing I have got the cheapest
deal I can get here. We do not have this equ popwer thing in my area and my
main choices at the top oof all lists are either scotishpower or british
gas fixed price. There are no others cheaper. Scottishpoer and British gas
are listed as having six different rates each! But there is no one else
cheaper. The others have standing charges hiking thigs up. This power
supply market is like everything else, if you live in the right place you
can get it cheaper ( or get it at all). Where I live I have to pay for the
privledge.

Its the same with getting a storage heater. I have had to send via the
internet to a place in the SE of England for the best price. Not only that,
I cant even find a supplier near me so I couldnt fetch one if I wanted.
Nest prices seem to be in either the North or the SE.

  #20   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,356
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 07:37:24 +0100 someone who may be "endymion"
wrote this:-

But I dont have that option. Equpower do not supply to my area. I have
checked. [snip]


I have checked with a lot of different sites and worked the figures in many
ways. As I said above other than paperless billing I have got the cheapest
deal I can get here. We do not have this equ popwer thing in my area and my
main choices at the top oof all lists are either scotishpower or british
gas fixed price.


Where is this place where you can get electricity from Scottish
Power and British Gas, but not Ebico? The map at
http://www.ebico.co.uk/html/e_rates.php shows where electricity is
available from Ebico (and the other two companies). As long as you
are not in Northern Ireland you should be able to get electricity
from all three, if you are in Northern Ireland I understand that you
have the "choice" of one supplier.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54


  #21   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 59
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)


"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 07:37:24 +0100 someone who may be "endymion"
wrote this:-

But I dont have that option. Equpower do not supply to my area. I have
checked. [snip]


I have checked with a lot of different sites and worked the figures in
many
ways. As I said above other than paperless billing I have got the cheapest
deal I can get here. We do not have this equ popwer thing in my area and
my
main choices at the top oof all lists are either scotishpower or british
gas fixed price.


Where is this place where you can get electricity from Scottish
Power and British Gas, but not Ebico? The map at
http://www.ebico.co.uk/html/e_rates.php shows where electricity is
available from Ebico (and the other two companies). As long as you
are not in Northern Ireland you should be able to get electricity
from all three, if you are in Northern Ireland I understand that you
have the "choice" of one supplier.


According to your link, what I gain on the swings I loose on the roundabout,
which probably explains why they didnt show up.

day: 14.67p per KWh (inc VAT)
night: 5.24p per KWh (inc VAT)


My cuurrent rates are 16p for day rate and 4.5 for night rate.

Their day rate is lower, their night rate is higher. Overall difference on
my consumption at current readings would be a couple of quid.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54


  #22   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,085
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 07:37:24 +0100, endymion wrote:

I think you need to look around for a better deal. Our Equipower E7 is
4.27 and 13.18 (+ 5% VAT) and no Tier 1 or 2 rubbish or standing charge
either.


But I dont have that option. Equpower do not supply to my area.


The figures you quote in another message match Equipowers E7 tarrif for
the SW region. Ebico do supply the SW and see Mr Hansens post...

I have checked. I have the lowest charges I can more or less get
without having to go to paperless billing. I dont nthink that the
difference ( about 50 odd quid a year according to estimates) makes
enough difference to loose access to the suppliers phone helpline. I
have found that invaluable recently.


AFAIAA you don't loose access to the suppliers helpline. I recently spent
a merry afternoon on the phone to Southern, Scottish & Southern and Ebico
trying to work out why the rates that Ebico sent at the last price change
were not the ones on my bills and the DD discount had effectively gone.

There are no others cheaper. Scottishpoer and British gas are listed as
having six different rates each! But there is no one else cheaper. The
others have standing charges hiking thigs up.


There are very few tarrifs that have truely have "no standing charge",
Ebico is one of those but the unit price is slightly above the cheapest
but no where near some prices. Those tarrifs marketed as "no standing
charge" almost invariable have a dual rate system where you pay a premium
for the first X units. When you do the maths this premium equals the same
tarrif with the daily standing charge option.

I did notice the other week that there are a few tarrifs where the Tier 2
and normal rates between "no standing charge" and "standing charge" were
different but not by much, 0.2p or so.

Scottish Power I also use online, paperless, direct debit etc. I'm very
happy with their service and prices. As of a few days ago they have yet to
put up their prices (along with nPower) so getting a fixed rate until 20??
deal now might be quite beneficial... E.On and Scottish and Southern
recently have gone for price hikes of 15 to 20% on lecky.

This power supply market is like everything else, if you live in the
right place you can get it cheaper ( or get it at all). Where I live I
have to pay for the privledge.


If you are in the old SWEB region they are not the cheapest region but I
don't think there are any restrictions on who you can use for supplier
down there. I noticed the other day that many suppliers no longer offer
online switching, you have to write or ring 'em up. This is sometimes not
very clear on the switching sites, those sites make their money from
online switching so tend to not push those that can't be switched on line.

Its the same with getting a storage heater. I have had to send via the
internet to a place in the SE of England for the best price. Not only
that, I cant even find a supplier near me so I couldnt fetch one if I
wanted.


There wouldn't be a supllier within a 50 mile round trip for me, if then,
more likely to be 100 miles. Fetching one would be £20 to £40 in the car
fully costed. Delivery charges are rarely more than the cost of me going
to get something.

--
Cheers
Dave.



  #23   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 850
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

AFAIAA you don't loose access to the suppliers helpline. I recently spent
a merry afternoon on the phone to Southern, Scottish & Southern and Ebico
trying to work out why the rates that Ebico sent at the last price change
were not the ones on my bills and the DD discount had effectively gone.


Thanks for the heads-up, i'll have to keep my eye open for that one...

Your contract is with Ebico though, so you "should" only have to deal
with them for all billing issues...
  #24   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,356
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 08:55:39 +0100 someone who may be "endymion"
wrote this:-

According to your link, what I gain on the swings I loose on the roundabout,
which probably explains why they didnt show up.


If you used an on-line "comparison" tool you were perhaps not aware
that these generally don't show all suppliers with their default
settings.

There have been various defences by the on-line comparison guide
operators of the fact that they have programmed this behaviour into
their software. I have never been convinced by any of these
defences. In the absence of any convincing argument to the contrary
I continue to note that the on-line "comparison" sites generally
promote those suppliers who give a (small) payment for everyone who
switches via the site. A lot of small payments add up to a large
payment. Follow the money is still a good approach.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
  #25   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,356
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:17:00 +0100 (BST) someone who may be "Dave
Liquorice" wrote this:-

AFAIAA you don't loose access to the suppliers helpline. I recently spent
a merry afternoon on the phone to Southern, Scottish & Southern and Ebico
trying to work out why the rates that Ebico sent at the last price change
were not the ones on my bills and the DD discount had effectively gone.


I hope that any direct debit discount with your previous supplier
did indeed disappear when you switched to Ebico. That is precisely
what should have happened.

"So how does our own tariff work, apart from the regional variation?
What makes Ebico different?

"EquiPower, as the name suggests, is an equitable rate available to
all domestic customers in England, Scotland and Wales. We even out
between all our customers the different expenses of different
payment methods. Nobody is penalised because of his or her budget or
circumstances or by how much gas they choose to buy.

"Everybody pays at the same fair rate and there are no standing
charges.

"In contrast, most other energy supply companies charge pre-payment
meter customers at a higher rate than other customers. Their reason
is that there’s more effort involved in servicing this payment
method – i.e. supplying and looking after the meters, which are the
company’s property.

"When you consider that pre-payment meter users have to pay up to a
third more than online customers in some regions, you realise what’s
special about EquiPower

"As well as that, other companies also usually offer deals that mean
people are charged less if they use a lot of energy, or when they
commit to paying in a particular way. This means people pay a lower
rate because they spend more.

"In effect, the market at large rewards those who have more money to
spend in the first place. Ebico aims to reverse that market trend.
It may be the only energy company that actually encourages people to
spend less!

"When you consider that pre-payment meter users have to pay up to a
third more than online customers in some regions, you realise what’s
special about EquiPower."

http://www.ebico.co.uk/html/e_pricework.php



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54


  #26   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,285
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

Colin Wilson wrote:

Your contract is with Ebico though, so you "should" only have to deal
with them for all billing issues...


No, with Ebico the supply contract is with Scottish & Southern Energy,
under one of their brands, see
http://www.ebico.co.uk/html/c_payoptions.php (about your bills).

--
Andy
  #27   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,085
Default New electric meter - how to read ( Economy 7 tarriff reader)

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:35:43 +0100, Colin Wilson wrote:

AFAIAA you don't loose access to the suppliers helpline. I recently
spent a merry afternoon on the phone to Southern, Scottish & Southern
and Ebico trying to work out why the rates that Ebico sent at the last
price change were not the ones on my bills and the DD discount had
effectively gone.


Thanks for the heads-up, i'll have to keep my eye open for that one...

Your contract is with Ebico though, so you "should" only have to deal
with them for all billing issues...


Except that Southern issue the bills for Ebico... But Southern have no
control over how those bills are calculated (rates etc) that comes from
Scottish and Southern.

Anyway it boils down to the billing system being unable to cope with a
Direct Debit Discount of 0% (or perhaps different DD discounts depending
on the tarrif), so it has to apply the default 6%.

Ebico do not do a DD Discount so, if you pay by DD, the unit rates used on
the bill are raised by 6% which is the removed by the 6% DD discount that
has to be applied when you pay by DD.

The thing to check is what the rates are if you *don't* pay by DD, they
should be the published Ebico ones, not Ebico +6%.

--
Cheers
Dave.



Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OT The meter reader cometh Dave Fawthrop UK diy 24 September 17th 06 10:35 PM
OT The meter reader cometh james UK diy 3 September 17th 06 01:56 PM
Getting an Economy 7 meter fitted Mark Carver UK diy 8 March 2nd 05 10:04 PM
Tariff 19? Economy 7 meter change Mindwipe UK diy 9 November 8th 03 06:24 PM
Meter reader clocked me! BigWallop UK diy 3 July 23rd 03 10:58 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:38 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"