Metal framed windows - alternative re-installation fixing method?
 

Before anyone asks...
Big house, 7 bedrooms, located in Kenton (North West London). Exterior
paint-work neglected for many years, now affecting rendered walls and
most woodwork both. Interior not much better, having last been
decorated some 25 years ago, albeit to a high standard when done.

I have my work cut out, as you can imagine.

One of my tasks was to repair the exterior cill to a metal-framed,
stairwell-landing window, to the extent of chiseling the rotten cill
back to sound wood and then splicing on a ripped-down length of new
cill moulding, recently bought for the purpose.
Unfortunately, it turned out that the whole frame was shot, beyond
repair, and I have had to remove the whole lot and board-up the bare-
brick opening, temporarily, while I source a new frame.

My next problem (and the reason for this post) is that, the heads of
the screws fixing the metal frame to the hard-wood frame, are obscured
by the glazed, leaded panes of glass, which were only recently
renovated! The upshot is that I can't access these screws without
removing the glass panes. This I do not want to do!

Removing the window wasn't a problem, as I just mullerred the rotten
wood around the metal until it all came away. Any solid wood still
attached just got removed by drilling, cutting and chiseling around
the remaining screw threads, still in place.

However, as you can probably figure, I now need an alternative way of
re-installing the metal frame back into a new wooden frame that I will
have made. As I will be unable to fix "through" the metal frame, into
the new wooden one, I have been thinking about having a specially-
made, hardwood frame, that could "sandwich" the metal frame between
'inner' and 'outer' components, that are independently screw-fixed
into the brickwork. Granted that the situation is further complicated
by the metal frame being rebated on the internal side, with a flange/
collar/whatever, visible from the outside... to prevent drilling
access the original through-frame screw-fixings I presume!?

I fairly sure this could work, but before I commission the joiners,
I'd like to know if anyone else has experienced the same, and if there
is a more common-practice method that is widely used for solving this
issue. I don't want to over-engineer this and incur unnecessary
expense.

Looking forward to your responses.
Many thanks.

Metal framed windows - alternative re-installation fixing method?
 

deano wrote:
Before anyone asks...
Big house, 7 bedrooms, located in Kenton (North West London). Exterior
paint-work neglected for many years, now affecting rendered walls and
most woodwork both. Interior not much better, having last been
decorated some 25 years ago, albeit to a high standard when done.

I have my work cut out, as you can imagine.

One of my tasks was to repair the exterior cill to a metal-framed,
stairwell-landing window, to the extent of chiseling the rotten cill
back to sound wood and then splicing on a ripped-down length of new
cill moulding, recently bought for the purpose.
Unfortunately, it turned out that the whole frame was shot, beyond
repair, and I have had to remove the whole lot and board-up the bare-
brick opening, temporarily, while I source a new frame.

My next problem (and the reason for this post) is that, the heads of
the screws fixing the metal frame to the hard-wood frame, are obscured
by the glazed, leaded panes of glass, which were only recently
renovated!

Its this a standard s/G leaded light in metal frame thing?

If so they are not hard to get out..I have these installed and the
leaded lights are puttied into the steel frames.

And the leaded lights are by no means hugely expensive.


Contact these guys to see what is possible before expensing huge amounts
of time.

http://www.mikehonourwindows.co.uk/honour_windows.htm

Metal framed windows - alternative re-installation fixing method?
 

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
deano wrote:


Its this a standard s/G leaded light in metal frame thing?

If so they are not hard to get out..I have these installed and the
leaded lights are puttied into the steel frames.

And the leaded lights are by no means hugely expensive.


Contact these guys to see what is possible before expensing huge amounts
of time.

http://www.mikehonourwindows.co.uk/honour_windows.htm


We have original Crittal windows in our house with leaded glass
throughout. There are some cracked panes. How easy is it to replace
them? Do I need special tools?

Is it possible to get double glazed panels for them? Or would I be
wasting my time as the metal frames would still conduct a lot of heat out?

Would I be better off investigating secondary glazing?

thanks

dan

Metal framed windows - alternative re-installation fixing method?
 

On 9 Jul, 13:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
deano wrote:
Before anyone asks...
Big house, 7 bedrooms, located in Kenton (North West London). Exterior
paint-work neglected for many years, now affecting rendered walls and
most woodwork both. Interior not much better, having last been
decorated some 25 years ago, albeit to a high standard when done.

I have my work cut out, as you can imagine.

One of my tasks was to repair the exterior cill to a metal-framed,
stairwell-landing window, to the extent of chiseling the rotten cill
back to sound wood and then splicing on a ripped-down length of new
cill moulding, recently bought for the purpose.
Unfortunately, it turned out that the whole frame was shot, beyond
repair, and I have had to remove the whole lot and board-up the bare-
brick opening, temporarily, while I source a new frame.

My next problem (and the reason for this post) is that, the heads of
the screws fixing the metal frame to the hard-wood frame, are obscured
by the glazed, leaded panes of glass, which were only recently
renovated!

Its this a standard s/G leaded light in metal frame thing?

If so they are not hard to get out..I have these installed and the
leaded lights are puttied into the steel frames.

And the leaded lights are by no means hugely expensive.

Contact these guys to see what is possible before expensing huge amounts
of time.

http://www.mikehonourwindows.co.uk/honour_windows.htm

No, I don't think they're standard.
The window has three sections with the middle one an opener. All three
sections are glazed, using different types of obscured glass, in a
random, overlapping pattern, with leaded joints running vertically and
horizontally. The client loves it and doesn't want me to touch the
glass... I hate it and the job is more complex that it needs to be,
but what can one do... she is being charged accordingly, so I have to
do it her way.

cheers
d.

Metal framed windows - alternative re-installation fixing method?
 

On Jul 10, 9:43*am, deano wrote:
On 9 Jul, 13:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
deano wrote:

Before anyone asks...
Big house, 7 bedrooms, located in Kenton (North West London). Exterior
paint-work neglected for many years, now affecting rendered walls and
most woodwork both. Interior not much better, having last been
decorated some 25 years ago, albeit to a high standard when done.

I have my work cut out, as you can imagine.

One of my tasks was to repair the exterior cill to a metal-framed,
stairwell-landing window, to the extent of chiseling the rotten cill
back to sound wood and then splicing on a ripped-down length of new
cill moulding, recently bought for the purpose.
Unfortunately, it turned out that the whole frame was shot, beyond
repair, and I have had to remove the whole lot and board-up the bare-
brick opening, temporarily, while I source a new frame.

My next problem (and the reason for this post) is that, the heads of
the screws fixing the metal frame to the hard-wood frame, are obscured
by the glazed, leaded panes of glass, which were only recently
renovated!

Its this a standard s/G leaded light in metal frame thing?

If so they are not hard to get out..I have these installed and the
leaded lights are puttied into the steel frames.

And the leaded lights are by no means hugely expensive.

Contact these guys to see what is possible before expensing huge amounts
of time.

http://www.mikehonourwindows.co.uk/honour_windows.htm

No, I don't think they're standard.
The window has three sections with the middle one an opener. All three
sections are glazed, using different types of obscured glass, in a
random, overlapping pattern, with leaded joints running vertically and
horizontally. The client loves it and doesn't want me to touch the
glass... I hate it and the job is more complex that it needs to be,
but what can one do... she is being charged accordingly, so I have to
do it her way.

cheers
d.



IIUC youve got a metal framed window installed into a wooden frame.
This is not normal, the steel frame is just attached to the brickwork
usually, and the small variable gap puttied. The whole point of steel
frames is they don't rot. Thermally they're terrible, and secondary
glazing would be a good move. Make sure its openable.


NT

Metal framed windows - alternative re-installation fixing method?
 

wrote:
On Jul 10, 9:43 am, deano wrote:
On 9 Jul, 13:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
deano wrote:

Before anyone asks...
Big house, 7 bedrooms, located in Kenton (North West London). Exterior
paint-work neglected for many years, now affecting rendered walls and
most woodwork both. Interior not much better, having last been
decorated some 25 years ago, albeit to a high standard when done.
I have my work cut out, as you can imagine.
One of my tasks was to repair the exterior cill to a metal-framed,
stairwell-landing window, to the extent of chiseling the rotten cill
back to sound wood and then splicing on a ripped-down length of new
cill moulding, recently bought for the purpose.
Unfortunately, it turned out that the whole frame was shot, beyond
repair, and I have had to remove the whole lot and board-up the bare-
brick opening, temporarily, while I source a new frame.
My next problem (and the reason for this post) is that, the heads of
the screws fixing the metal frame to the hard-wood frame, are obscured
by the glazed, leaded panes of glass, which were only recently
renovated!
Its this a standard s/G leaded light in metal frame thing?
If so they are not hard to get out..I have these installed and the
leaded lights are puttied into the steel frames.
And the leaded lights are by no means hugely expensive.
Contact these guys to see what is possible before expensing huge amounts
of time.
http://www.mikehonourwindows.co.uk/honour_windows.htm
No, I don't think they're standard.
The window has three sections with the middle one an opener. All three
sections are glazed, using different types of obscured glass, in a
random, overlapping pattern, with leaded joints running vertically and
horizontally. The client loves it and doesn't want me to touch the
glass... I hate it and the job is more complex that it needs to be,
but what can one do... she is being charged accordingly, so I have to
do it her way.

cheers
d.



IIUC youve got a metal framed window installed into a wooden frame.
This is not normal, the steel frame is just attached to the brickwork
usually, and the small variable gap puttied. The whole point of steel
frames is they don't rot. Thermally they're terrible, and secondary
glazing would be a good move. Make sure its openable.



I'd still contact those guys I mentioned: they can rebuild new lights
out of the existing glass, and make up new metal frames and wood ones to
go round them.

I used them here..and they are excellent.



NT

Metal framed windows - alternative re-installation fixing method?
 

On 10 Jul, 17:01, wrote:


IIUC youve got a metal framed window installed into a wooden frame.
This is not normal, the steel frame is just attached to the brickwork
usually, and the small variable gap puttied. The whole point of steel
frames is they don't rot. Thermally they're terrible, and secondary
glazing would be a good move. Make sure its openable.

NT

Normal or not, that's the way it is (or was)!

The frame is now in my workshop... nice and dry, out of this piddling
weather!
I located the screws which held the remaining, sound parts of the
wooden frame, to the metal, and drilled down to them, through the
wood, using holesaws. This worked a treat and the metal frame is now
free from all wood, and stripped back to metal around all edges. The
leaded glass is all intact.

After a bit of investigation, I also discovered that I will be able to
re-fix the metal frame, to the new timber frame, through the original
holes that exist in the metal. I just need to use longer screws, with
domed heads, fixed at an angle. I can then bury the heads in new
putty.

This is the plan, wish me luck :)

cheers
d.