Hi, if someone has used the 'wrong' solder to connect water pipes in a
house is there any way of avoiding replacing the piping?

I thought the lead leeching into the water would reduce over time.
However, I don't know if this is true and, if so, how long it would
take for the lead levels to fall to a safe level.

The house this has happend in was build about 5 years ago but the lead
levels were only noticed a year ago (and have since dropped - but not
to safe levels yet)
The piping could be replaced under insurance but would prefer to avoid
the mess if possible.

Any pointers/info greatly appreciated

wrote:
Hi, if someone has used the 'wrong' solder to connect water pipes in a
house is there any way of avoiding replacing the piping?

I thought the lead leeching into the water would reduce over time.
However, I don't know if this is true and, if so, how long it would
take for the lead levels to fall to a safe level.

The house this has happend in was build about 5 years ago but the lead
levels were only noticed a year ago (and have since dropped - but not
to safe levels yet)
The piping could be replaced under insurance but would prefer to avoid
the mess if possible.

Any pointers/info greatly appreciated

Millions of houses still have mains water coming through lead pipes.
Some have plastic pipes coming into the house that are joined onto lead in
the street, but they don't know that so they don't worry.
Don't worry about it and it will go away.

wrote:

Hi, if someone has used the 'wrong' solder to connect water pipes in a
house is there any way of avoiding replacing the piping?

Well the normal solution is to simply ignore it.

I thought the lead leeching into the water would reduce over time.
However, I don't know if this is true and, if so, how long it would
take for the lead levels to fall to a safe level.

In hard water areas, lead pipe acquires a coating that prevents it
actually making contact with the water anyway. Not so sure about solder.
However there should be vanishingly small quantities of solder exposed
to the water - most is trapped between the pipe and fitting surfaces/

How do you define "safe level"? How are you measuring it?

The house this has happend in was build about 5 years ago but the lead
levels were only noticed a year ago (and have since dropped - but not
to safe levels yet)

Same questions as above really, and also are you sure that the solder is
the only source of lead?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:
Hi, if someone has used the 'wrong' solder to connect water pipes in a
house is there any way of avoiding replacing the piping?

I agree with the other replies; and would add, why do you think that
lead-free solder hasn't been used? Just because of the lead content in
the water or do you have proof?

David

In article ,
wrote:
Hi, if someone has used the 'wrong' solder to connect water pipes in a
house is there any way of avoiding replacing the piping?

I thought the lead leeching into the water would reduce over time.
However, I don't know if this is true and, if so, how long it would
take for the lead levels to fall to a safe level.

Well, lots of lead pipe still in use. In theory you can have it replaced
for free as it's considered a health hazard. But before 'they'll' do this
you have to have the water tested to show the lead content above a certain
level and at your expense - only refunded if it proves over that. And i
know of someone in the NE of Scotland who did just this - only to find it
considered safe and by a large margin. And that area has very soft water -
in a hard water area the inside of the pipes get coated, so no erosion can
take place. It could be there are some areas with acidic or whatever water
which does dissolve lead though - I've no idea.

But in general I'd simply ignore it. It could be coincidence but the ban
on lead solder for potable water came in about the same time as the ban on
lead solder for electronic production. Which is more of a worker's H&S
thingie than concerned with the end user.

--
*It's not hard to meet expenses... they're everywhere.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 3 Jun, 00:30, wrote:
Hi, if someone has used the 'wrong' solder to connect water pipes in a
house is there any way of avoiding replacing the piping?

I thought the lead leeching into the water would reduce over time.
However, I don't know if this is true and, if so, how long it would
take for the lead levels to fall to a safe level.

You don't know; that is why the use of lead solder has been prohibited
by the Water Byelaws for about 20 years.
If it was done during the build, the builder should pay for the
remedial works. I'd assume it's a claim on the builder's liability
insurance you were thinking of.
It is unfit for purpose. The only fix would be to cut out and replace
all the soldered joints; cutting out all the pipework might be
cheaper.

Grasp the nettle and get it done.

I've no sympathy for them; every first-year plumbing apprentice & half-
competent DIYer knows lead is banned. They've made a saving on their
labour costs by employing an incompetent. The rest of the heating &
H&C installation is probably similarly carp.

On 3 Jun, 09:04, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Well, lots of lead pipe still in use. In theory you can have it replaced
for free as it's considered a health hazard.


The 'free' replacement only applies to the Water Supplier's service
pipe, i.e., from the water main to the house boundary.
The pipe inside the boundary is the house owner's responsibility.

A test at the stopcock would show whether the water is picking up any
lead once inside the lead-soldered plumbing.

On 3 Jun, 10:13, Onetap wrote:

I've no sympathy for them; every first-year plumbing apprentice & half-
competent DIYer knows lead is banned.

Most commercial pipework specifications require the use of lead-free
solder ring fittings; these are marked to show it's lead-free solder,
e.g. a YP logo in the case of Yorkshire Potable fittings. That should
ensure the solder is lead-free.

I've seen a plumber 'topping-up' the YP solder ring fittings with
solder from a yellow (lead/tin) spool. Nothing is fool-proof, fools
are so ingenious.

In article ,
Onetap writes:

The 'free' replacement only applies to the Water Supplier's service
pipe, i.e., from the water main to the house boundary.

and only if you've already got rid of any lead pipe which is your
responsibility.

The pipe inside the boundary is the house owner's responsibility.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 00:30:50 +0100, wrote:

Hi, if someone has used the 'wrong' solder to connect water pipes in a
house is there any way of avoiding replacing the piping?

I thought the lead leeching into the water would reduce over time.
However, I don't know if this is true and, if so, how long it would
take for the lead levels to fall to a safe level.

The house this has happend in was build about 5 years ago but the lead
levels were only noticed a year ago (and have since dropped - but not
to safe levels yet)
The piping could be replaced under insurance but would prefer to avoid
the mess if possible.

Any pointers/info greatly appreciated

It would be interesting to see actual statistics (not mere opinions)
of how many people have suffered from lead poisoning due to the use of
lead pipes and lead/tin solder.

--
Frank Erskine

On 3 Jun, 10:28, Frank Erskine wrote:

It would be interesting to see actual statistics (not mere opinions)
of how many people have suffered from lead poisoning due to the use of
lead pipes and lead/tin solder.

Probably none, if you define 'lead poisoning' as hospitalisation and/
or death.
Probably quite a few if you were to include non-mains water, acidic
well water or non-water uses. The lunacy amongst Roman Emperors
(Caligula, Nero, etc..) was probably the result of consuming wine
stored or drunk from lead or pewter vessels.

If you define 'lead poisoning' as any ingestion of lead, then probably
everyone.

Consuming lead doesn't do you any good and lead solder is an avoidable
source. There's so much lead and other heavy metals in the environment
that you can't totally avoid it.

Only opinions I regret, but informed opinions I hope.

Onetap wrote:
On 3 Jun, 10:28, Frank Erskine wrote:

It would be interesting to see actual statistics (not mere opinions)
of how many people have suffered from lead poisoning due to the use of
lead pipes and lead/tin solder.

Probably quite a few if you were to include non-mains water, acidic
well water or non-water uses. The lunacy amongst Roman Emperors
(Caligula, Nero, etc..) was probably the result of consuming wine
stored or drunk from lead or pewter vessels.

I thought that was more related to generations of incest?

David

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:11:40 +0100, Lobster
wrote:

Onetap wrote:
On 3 Jun, 10:28, Frank Erskine wrote:

It would be interesting to see actual statistics (not mere opinions)
of how many people have suffered from lead poisoning due to the use of
lead pipes and lead/tin solder.

Probably quite a few if you were to include non-mains water, acidic
well water or non-water uses. The lunacy amongst Roman Emperors
(Caligula, Nero, etc..) was probably the result of consuming wine
stored or drunk from lead or pewter vessels.

I thought that was more related to generations of incest?

.... which was the result of drinking wine... :-)

--
Frank Erskine

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Onetap wrote:
On 3 Jun, 10:28, Frank Erskine wrote:

It would be interesting to see actual statistics (not mere opinions)
of how many people have suffered from lead poisoning due to the use of
lead pipes and lead/tin solder.

Probably quite a few if you were to include non-mains water, acidic
well water or non-water uses. The lunacy amongst Roman Emperors
(Caligula, Nero, etc..) was probably the result of consuming wine
stored or drunk from lead or pewter vessels.

I thought that was more related to generations of incest?

In any case, it's a vast amount of lead surrounding a small amount of acidic
liquid, all of which is ingested - and, no, I wouldn't like to emulate them
as there would be a significant risk if you did it a lot. Comparing this
with any lead from solder fittings in a piped water system is ludicrous. Run
the kitchen tap for 10 seconds before drinking any water and you want have a
problem whatever your system is made of. As another poster said, the only
significant hazard from solder fittings is to the plumber heating them and
breathing the fumes, not to the householder passing water through them (so
to speak ) ), as with PCB manufacture. The only real dangers were where
(soft) water sat for long periods in lead pipes before being drunk (without
flushing). This is now almost unheard of. Removing lead from solder ring
fittings is just another example of the world going mad - the area of solder
presented to the water is minute and the system is regularly flushed.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 00:30:50 +0100, wrote:



It would be interesting to see actual statistics (not mere opinions)
of how many people have suffered from lead poisoning due to the use of
lead pipes and lead/tin solder.

I'd like to know that too.

Mary

In article ,
"Bob Mannix" writes:
In any case, it's a vast amount of lead surrounding a small amount of acidic
liquid, all of which is ingested - and, no, I wouldn't like to emulate them
as there would be a significant risk if you did it a lot. Comparing this
with any lead from solder fittings in a piped water system is ludicrous. Run
the kitchen tap for 10 seconds before drinking any water and you want have a
problem whatever your system is made of. As another poster said, the only
significant hazard from solder fittings is to the plumber heating them and
breathing the fumes, not to the householder passing water through them (so
to speak ) ), as with PCB manufacture. The only real dangers were where
(soft) water sat for long periods in lead pipes before being drunk (without
flushing). This is now almost unheard of. Removing lead from solder ring
fittings is just another example of the world going mad - the area of solder
presented to the water is minute and the system is regularly flushed.

Which reminds me... I did some plumbing for a friend recently, rerouting
some pipework which was in the way. It was copper so I used end-feed
solder fittings and lead-free solder. After I'd done this, the bathroom
floor was taken up for other reasons, and they deciced to reroute the
pipework again under the floor as it could be completely concealed that
way. I wasn't around so he got a plumber in to do it.

I looked at the job afterwards. My soldering is neat with no drips left
on the pipework (which would otherwise look like paint runs after painting),
and a nice small silver filet ring of solder just visible around the join.
The plumber's joins have got solder running over 6" down the pipe from
the join whereupon the solder turns into large drips, not to mention
a pool of solder on the floor under the job. There's probably the same
on the inside of the pipe too. One of the joins is a JG speedfit one too
(no idea why, but he'd probably used up his whole reel of solder by then;-)
The plumber is actually CORGI registered too (although this wasn't gas work).

Perhaps I should have posted this on the _There are no skilled workers left_
thread?

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 10:28:16 +0100, Frank Erskine
wrote:

It would be interesting to see actual statistics (not mere opinions)
of how many people have suffered from lead poisoning due to the use of
lead pipes and lead/tin solder.

There have certainly been a number of recorded cases from the early
1900's, but all in areas where there was soft water plus extensive
lead piping and stagnation water which had been in pipes overnight was
used to make infant feed. I think some cases came from Liverpool.
Most cases though came from Publicans and their families where the
first draw of beer (or worse - cider) through the then lead pipes was
drunk by the family (rather than being thrown away).

With copper pipes/lead solder the exposure is highest immediately
after installation and drops over the next 5 years to a stable level.

Australia has few lead pipe installations installation so studies
there tend to be of copper/lead solder. Two are "Metals in Drinking
Water from New Housing Estates in the Sydney Area
Rajaratnam, Winder and An"

"Metals in drinking water were measured in 95 new houses less than 18
months old in the Sydney metropolitan area. Three samples
(first-flush, post-first-flush, and fully flushed water) were
collected from each house, and “control” samples from the five Sydney
Water points that supplied the houses, a total of 326 samples. They
were analyzed for Pb, Cu, Mn, Zn, Cd, and Al. At the supply points,
the levels of all metals were at or below Australian Drinking Water
Guidelines (ADWG). In the houses, metal levels varied. Of the
first-flush samples, Pb was above ADWG in 60% and above US EPA
Guidelines in 81%, Cu was above ADWG in 12%, and Cd was above ADWG in
4%. Of the post-first-flush samples, Pb was above ADWG in 24%, Cu was
above ADWG in 18%, Cd was above ADWG in 1%, and Zn was above ADWG in
1%. The other metal contaminants (Mn and Al) were within ADWG. In
fully flushed water, the levels of all metals were well below ADWG."

and

"Effect of plumbing systems on lead content of drinking water and
contribution to lead body burden."
Gulson BL, Law AJ, Korsch MJ, Mizon KJ

"Stable lead isotopes and lead contents in drinking water from a
number of Australian cities have been measured to determine the
contribution of drinking water to body burden. Lead contents are
generally 2 micrograms/l and thus contribute an insignificant amount
to the lead budget in humans in Australia. First-flush and running
water samples taken at intervals of up to 10 min show that equilibrium
is reached within 1 min or approximately 10 l by volume. There is,
however, large variability in both lead content and isotopic
composition within the first minute which brings into question the
reliability of the recommended sampling time of 30 s. Extremely large
isotopic differences between individual dwellings within the one city
and between dwellings and the storage tanks for the water supply are
attributed to differences in lead residing in the plumbing within the
dwellings, usually from lead solder in brass fittings. Isotopic
analysis of solder and water from two dwellings confirm this
relationship."

Leaving the cold tap running for 1 minute after it hasn't been used
for some time (eg overnight) seems to be effective in eliminating any
problem but lead in drinking water remains a relatively small source
for lead in humans.

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 10:28:16 +0100, Frank Erskine
wrote:

It would be interesting to see actual statistics (not mere opinions)
of how many people have suffered from lead poisoning due to the use of
lead pipes and lead/tin solder.

There have certainly been a number of recorded cases from the early
1900's, but all in areas where there was soft water plus extensive
lead piping and stagnation water which had been in pipes overnight was
used to make infant feed. I think some cases came from Liverpool.
Most cases though came from Publicans and their families where the
first draw of beer (or worse - cider) through the then lead pipes was
drunk by the family (rather than being thrown away).

snip
"Stable lead isotopes and lead contents in drinking water from a
number of Australian cities have been measured to determine the
contribution of drinking water to body burden. Lead contents are
generally 2 micrograms/l and thus contribute an insignificant amount
to the lead budget in humans in Australia. First-flush and running
water samples taken at intervals of up to 10 min show that equilibrium
is reached within 1 min or approximately 10 l by volume. There is,
however, large variability in both lead content and isotopic
composition within the first minute which brings into question the
reliability of the recommended sampling time of 30 s. Extremely large
isotopic differences between individual dwellings within the one city
and between dwellings and the storage tanks for the water supply are
attributed to differences in lead residing in the plumbing within the
dwellings, usually from lead solder in brass fittings. Isotopic
analysis of solder and water from two dwellings confirm this
relationship."

Leaving the cold tap running for 1 minute after it hasn't been used
for some time (eg overnight) seems to be effective in eliminating any
problem but lead in drinking water remains a relatively small source
for lead in humans.

Also some of what you have quoted refers to storage tanks. Most drinking
water in uk housing comes direct off the main via the kitchen tap or should.
This is often (but not always) near the incoming main. In the vast majority
of cases therefore, the studies above are irrelevant. Running the kitchen
tap for 10s in the morning and again after work, will ensure there is no
lead in the water you drink.

Yes, I wouldn't make tea by filling the kettle from the hot tap in an old
property (but only partly because of the lead possibilities!). For the OP
though, as long as they only drink from the kitchen tap and flush as I
suggest, they won't get any lead at all and can worry about one of the
10,000 other things that are way more hazardous in life!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...

Which reminds me... I did some plumbing for a friend recently, rerouting
some pipework which was in the way. It was copper so I used end-feed
solder fittings and lead-free solder. After I'd done this, the bathroom
floor was taken up for other reasons, and they deciced to reroute the
pipework again under the floor as it could be completely concealed that
way. I wasn't around so he got a plumber in to do it.

I looked at the job afterwards. My soldering is neat with no drips left
on the pipework (which would otherwise look like paint runs after
painting),
and a nice small silver filet ring of solder just visible around the join.
The plumber's joins have got solder running over 6" down the pipe from
the join whereupon the solder turns into large drips, not to mention
a pool of solder on the floor under the job. There's probably the same
on the inside of the pipe too. One of the joins is a JG speedfit one too
(no idea why, but he'd probably used up his whole reel of solder by
then;-)
The plumber is actually CORGI registered too (although this wasn't gas
work).

A friend did the plumbing for our CH system. The installers for the stove
then came in to connect that up, and asked who did it - "my mate" - which
prompted guffawing of the "oh, it'll be crap" kind. I think when they
actually saw the quality of the job they might have changed their mind
again - his stuff is as you describe yours, all lovely. The worst bits in
the system are theirs...

Still, tbe builder who did our 'extension' takes pride of place for the
worst pipework in the house :-( Drips, not cleaning flux off, poor routing.

cheers,
clive

In article
,
Onetap wrote:
Well, lots of lead pipe still in use. In theory you can have it
replaced for free as it's considered a health hazard.


The 'free' replacement only applies to the Water Supplier's service
pipe, i.e., from the water main to the house boundary.
The pipe inside the boundary is the house owner's responsibility.

A test at the stopcock would show whether the water is picking up any
lead once inside the lead-soldered plumbing.

Err, didn't you read the rest of my post?

--
*Do they ever shut up on your planet?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
Onetap wrote:
Probably none, if you define 'lead poisoning' as hospitalisation and/ or
death. Probably quite a few if you were to include non-mains water,
acidic well water or non-water uses. The lunacy amongst Roman Emperors
(Caligula, Nero, etc..) was probably the result of consuming wine stored
or drunk from lead or pewter vessels.

Storing or drinking wine in/from lead is rather a different matter than
water. And other metals used for drinking vessels dissolves in wine too.
Hence they should be gold plated.

--
*We waste time, so you don't have to *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

AJH wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:48:55 +0100, Peter Parry
wrote:

lead in drinking water remains a relatively small source
for lead in humans.

What are the significant sources now we have unleaded petrol?


I recall reading that the highest risk was from old lead-based paint.

On 3 Jun, 15:37, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Well, lots of lead pipe still in use. In theory you can have it
replaced for free as it's considered a health hazard.
The 'free' replacement only applies to the Water Supplier's service
pipe, i.e., from the water main to the house boundary.
The pipe inside the boundary is the house owner's responsibility.
A test at the stopcock would show whether the water is picking up any
lead once inside the lead-soldered plumbing.

Err, didn't you read the rest of my post?

Yes. The OP is talking about his lead pipe; your post reads like he
can get someone to replace it free.

It still reads that way to me.

AJH wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:48:55 +0100, Peter Parry
wrote:

lead in drinking water remains a relatively small source
for lead in humans.

What are the significant sources now we have unleaded petrol?

AJH


I have to ask whether using grey water collected from lead flashed roofs
could contribute significant lead to, say, the vegetable plot?

In cattle (apparently - for I certainly didn't know this):

"Feed contamination is also a potential problem, indeed contaminated
rice bran from Burma was the primary source of the last major outbreak
of lead poisoning in the UK in 1989."

http://www.thecattlesite.com/diseaseinfo/217/lead-poisoning

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Onetap wrote:

The lunacy amongst Roman Emperors (Caligula, Nero, etc..) was probably the
result of consuming wine stored or drunk from lead or pewter vessels.

Umm no. The problem of lead in food stuffs was principally from the
consumption of sapa as a flavouring agent in Roman cooking. Sapa was
created by boiling a grape must in a saucepan for hours on end to
concentrate it.

The Romans discovered that the end product could be made even sweeter by
boiling the must in a lead saucepan and this became a standard way of
preparing sapa. Unfortunately the sweet flavour was due to the formation
of lead acetate (lead sugar) which is much more soluble than lead
oxides. As with most lead compounds it is a potent toxin.

I suspect for the man in the street unable to afford expensive preserves
and sweeteners it presented little hazard, but emperors presumably
consumed "quite a bit" of food flavoured with sapa.

In article
,
Onetap wrote:
On 3 Jun, 15:37, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Well, lots of lead pipe still in use. In theory you can have it
replaced for free as it's considered a health hazard.
The 'free' replacement only applies to the Water Supplier's service
pipe, i.e., from the water main to the house boundary.
The pipe inside the boundary is the house owner's responsibility.
A test at the stopcock would show whether the water is picking up any
lead once inside the lead-soldered plumbing.

Err, didn't you read the rest of my post?

Yes. The OP is talking about his lead pipe; your post reads like he
can get someone to replace it free.

It still reads that way to me.

There won't be many houses around with lead internal pipes - but plenty
still have lead for the incoming main.

--
*Stable Relationships Are For Horses. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 00:30:50 +0100, wrote:


It would be interesting to see actual statistics (not mere opinions)
of how many people have suffered from lead poisoning due to the use of
lead pipes and lead/tin solder.

I'd like to know that too.

Mary


0.0015% of Sweet Fanny Adams.

Like all these Elfin safety limits, since the data is so lost in the
noise, there is a tendency to take an exposure that - say - has 50%
chance of causing damage - probably gleaned from industrial exposures -
and extrapolate down linearly till it's something like an estimated one
in a million chance and declare 'that ought to be safe enough'

But in reality, the body is quite capable of dealing with long term low
level exposure to MOST nasties. It's when the defenses get overwhelmed
that problems happen.

However the public doesn't understand that. They just see that so and so
product or service is twice the legal limit on some substance, and start
panicking. Thinking (poisonthan legal)==perfect health : (poison
legal) ==instant death

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Onetap wrote:
Probably none, if you define 'lead poisoning' as hospitalisation and/ or
death. Probably quite a few if you were to include non-mains water,
acidic well water or non-water uses. The lunacy amongst Roman Emperors
(Caligula, Nero, etc..) was probably the result of consuming wine stored
or drunk from lead or pewter vessels.

Storing or drinking wine in/from lead is rather a different matter than
water. And other metals used for drinking vessels dissolves in wine too.
Hence they should be gold plated.

Never drink from pewter mugs eh?

Rod wrote:
AJH wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:48:55 +0100, Peter Parry
wrote:

lead in drinking water remains a relatively small source
for lead in humans.

What are the significant sources now we have unleaded petrol?

AJH


I have to ask whether using grey water collected from lead flashed roofs
could contribute significant lead to, say, the vegetable plot?


Almost certainly. Aren't brassicas hevay metal concentrators?

In cattle (apparently - for I certainly didn't know this):

"Feed contamination is also a potential problem, indeed contaminated
rice bran from Burma was the primary source of the last major outbreak
of lead poisoning in the UK in 1989."

http://www.thecattlesite.com/diseaseinfo/217/lead-poisoning

And mercury in tuna. Of course I eat tuna three times a day - don't you?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Rod wrote:
AJH wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:48:55 +0100, Peter Parry
wrote:

lead in drinking water remains a relatively small source
for lead in humans.

What are the significant sources now we have unleaded petrol?

AJH


I have to ask whether using grey water collected from lead flashed
roofs could contribute significant lead to, say, the vegetable plot?


Almost certainly. Aren't brassicas hevay metal concentrators?

In cattle (apparently - for I certainly didn't know this):

"Feed contamination is also a potential problem, indeed contaminated
rice bran from Burma was the primary source of the last major outbreak
of lead poisoning in the UK in 1989."

http://www.thecattlesite.com/diseaseinfo/217/lead-poisoning

And mercury in tuna. Of course I eat tuna three times a day - don't you?



I keep brassica consumption down because they are goitrogens. :-)

And it seems unlikely that we will be importing Burmese rice bran for a
while.

Without the mercury, how would you know when it is cooked?

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On 3 Jun, 18:49, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

There won't be many houses around with lead internal pipes

Quite a few in my experience. For people can't do DIY plumbing,
employing a plumber for a re-pipe is a huge expense. They won't do it
until the lead springs a pin-hole leak. Lots of lead pipe lurking
behind toilets, basins and baths.

And if it is completely impervious to water, why do old lead pipes
develop pin-hole leaks? It doesn't happen with copper or plastic.

- but plenty
still have lead for the incoming main.
Yes, less accessible.

On 3 Jun, 18:49, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

There won't be many houses around with lead internal pipes - but plenty
still have lead for the incoming main.

PS; I meant lead/tin soldered copper pipe, rather than lead.

The fact remains, there is no legal acceptable lower-limit for lead
ingestion and lead solder has been banned for potable water use
(meaning all H&C services) for yonks.
The builder can still be held liable for the replacement costs,
assuming they're still in business.

Onetap wrote:

On 3 Jun, 18:49, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

There won't be many houses around with lead internal pipes

Quite a few in my experience. For people can't do DIY plumbing,
employing a plumber for a re-pipe is a huge expense. They won't do it
until the lead springs a pin-hole leak. Lots of lead pipe lurking
behind toilets, basins and baths.

And if it is completely impervious to water, why do old lead pipes
develop pin-hole leaks? It doesn't happen with copper or plastic.

Unfortunately that is not true. I have had to change 2 15mm copper pipe
lengths recently as they were corroded through - tiny pinhole leaks. I
think it will get worse in coming years as copper pipe is so thin now
that it will corrode through so much faster.
Old pipe from 20 years ago is easily twice as thick as new pipe
nowadays.
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:
And mercury in tuna. Of course I eat tuna three times a day - don't you?

And in Salmon. I make gravad lax quite often...

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article , A.Lee
writes
Onetap wrote:

On 3 Jun, 18:49, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

There won't be many houses around with lead internal pipes

Quite a few in my experience. For people can't do DIY plumbing,
employing a plumber for a re-pipe is a huge expense. They won't do it
until the lead springs a pin-hole leak. Lots of lead pipe lurking
behind toilets, basins and baths.

And if it is completely impervious to water, why do old lead pipes
develop pin-hole leaks? It doesn't happen with copper or plastic.

Unfortunately that is not true. I have had to change 2 15mm copper pipe
lengths recently as they were corroded through - tiny pinhole leaks. I
think it will get worse in coming years as copper pipe is so thin now
that it will corrode through so much faster.
Old pipe from 20 years ago is easily twice as thick as new pipe
nowadays.
Alan.

Do you reckon it was corrosion from original thickness or perhaps a
manufacturing defect? Maybe a thin spot or micro spot of a more soluble
impurity. I mention it as I've seen some ropey copper on some pipes and
capillary elbows.

Back on topic, I still have Tin/Lead plumbing solder and have no guilt
using it on my own property in potable water joints, IMO the surface
area involved makes the risk of contamination infinitesimal.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

In message , fred writes
Back on topic, I still have Tin/Lead plumbing solder and have no guilt
using it on my own property in potable water joints, IMO the surface
area involved makes the risk of contamination infinitesimal.

My thoughts entirely, I always assumed that the main "advantage" of lead
free solder was to the plumber rather than the householder.
The big advantage to the householder happened years back when they
stopped using lead pipes.

--
Bill

In article
,
Onetap wrote:
And if it is completely impervious to water, why do old lead pipes
develop pin-hole leaks? It doesn't happen with copper or plastic.

It certainly does with copper.

--
*Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Stephen Howard wrote:
My thoughts entirely, I always assumed that the main "advantage" of
lead free solder was to the plumber rather than the householder. The
big advantage to the householder happened years back when they stopped
using lead pipes.

I can't see there's any advantage to the plumber in technical
terms...the flow characteristics of the stuff are lousy by comparison.

H&S, I assume.

--
*I used up all my sick days so I called in dead

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 23:53:36 +0100, Bill
wrote:

In message , fred writes
Back on topic, I still have Tin/Lead plumbing solder and have no guilt
using it on my own property in potable water joints, IMO the surface
area involved makes the risk of contamination infinitesimal.

My thoughts entirely, I always assumed that the main "advantage" of lead
free solder was to the plumber rather than the householder.
The big advantage to the householder happened years back when they
stopped using lead pipes.

I can't see there's any advantage to the plumber in technical
terms...the flow characteristics of the stuff are lousy by comparison.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

In message , Stephen Howard
writes

I can't see there's any advantage to the plumber in technical
terms...the flow characteristics of the stuff are lousy by comparison.

I was meaning health wise.

Certainly the little I've used on plumbing has not been as easy to use
as leaded although I may get used to it. But I do use a lot on PCBs and
thank goodness I have a good supply of leaded solder for that. The lead
free is naff, even when using a hotter iron.

Regards,




--
Bill