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RobertL May 20th 08 04:11 PM

How to prop up floor joists
 

I want to support my ground floor joists. This is partly to take the
weight of a piano and also because the joists do deflect rather a lot
anyway when weight is put on them (such as bookcases, cookers etc.
The joists in these houses (8"x2" at 18" centres) are, apparently, of
rather poor quality and have shrunk and bent in every house in eth
development. They were built in 1964 - part of the "Span House"
movement. When the floor deflects the walls that are built on it (of
block) move and crack which is not nice.

Under the house the gap between the earth to underside of each joist
is about 50cm. This is too big for a car scissor jack - I had
imagined using a row of scissor jacks. It's too small for an ACROW
prop.

One simple solution is to use some wooden 4"x2" props with carpenter's
wedges to adjust the height. But I am worried about creating a damp-
conducting path up to the joists even if I stand the base on damp
proofing membrane.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Robert


George May 20th 08 04:21 PM

How to prop up floor joists
 

"RobertL" wrote in message
...

I want to support my ground floor joists. This is partly to take the
weight of a piano and also because the joists do deflect rather a lot
anyway when weight is put on them (such as bookcases, cookers etc.
The joists in these houses (8"x2" at 18" centres) are, apparently, of
rather poor quality and have shrunk and bent in every house in eth
development. They were built in 1964 - part of the "Span House"
movement. When the floor deflects the walls that are built on it (of
block) move and crack which is not nice.

Under the house the gap between the earth to underside of each joist
is about 50cm. This is too big for a car scissor jack - I had
imagined using a row of scissor jacks. It's too small for an ACROW
prop.

One simple solution is to use some wooden 4"x2" props with carpenter's
wedges to adjust the height. But I am worried about creating a damp-
conducting path up to the joists even if I stand the base on damp
proofing membrane.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Robert


House bricks and put a piece of insulation in between the joist and the top
brick ie plastic sheeting doubled over.



Rod May 20th 08 04:48 PM

How to prop up floor joists
 
RobertL wrote:
I want to support my ground floor joists. This is partly to take the
weight of a piano and also because the joists do deflect rather a lot
anyway when weight is put on them (such as bookcases, cookers etc.
The joists in these houses (8"x2" at 18" centres) are, apparently, of
rather poor quality and have shrunk and bent in every house in eth
development. They were built in 1964 - part of the "Span House"
movement. When the floor deflects the walls that are built on it (of
block) move and crack which is not nice.

Under the house the gap between the earth to underside of each joist
is about 50cm. This is too big for a car scissor jack - I had
imagined using a row of scissor jacks. It's too small for an ACROW
prop.

One simple solution is to use some wooden 4"x2" props with carpenter's
wedges to adjust the height. But I am worried about creating a damp-
conducting path up to the joists even if I stand the base on damp
proofing membrane.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Robert


Robert,

It is not clear to me whether you are talking about temporary or
permanent support. I can imagine jacks as a temporary measure (e.g.
while you address the other problems) but not never as permanent. But
the 4"x2" props sounds more permament as do your worries about damp
conducting.

My thoughts shout "piles of concrete blocks" and inserting a DPM as they
are built up. But I have no idea of what should be done to the earth
beneath them - or whether this is something that requires Building
Control involvement.

There may well be ways of reinforcing the joists (e.g. slap an extra
piece of timber either side and bolt through) that are much better ideas.

Clearly you should also be considering a) insulation under the floor; b)
airflow; c) anything else you might want to do that could/should be done
at the same time (e.g. extending electric circuits,
checking/insulating/changing central heating pipes, network cables).

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Dave Liquorice[_2_] May 20th 08 05:19 PM

How to prop up floor joists
 
On Tue, 20 May 2008 07:11:46 -0700 (PDT), RobertL wrote:

One simple solution is to use some wooden 4"x2" props with carpenter's
wedges to adjust the height. But I am worried about creating a damp-
conducting path up to the joists even if I stand the base on damp
proofing membrane.


The normal solution would ne to build a sleeper wall under the joists and
pack up to the underside of the joists with a DPC (a bit of slate is
strong in compression). Props will work but you'll have to think of a way
of stopping the wedges working loose over time and possibly some means of
spreading the load on the soil so they don't sink in.

--
Cheers
Dave.




RobertL May 20th 08 05:30 PM

How to prop up floor joists
 
On May 20, 4:35*pm, Tony Bryer wrote:
On Tue, 20 May 2008 07:11:46 -0700 (PDT) RobertL wrote :

Under the house the gap between the earth to underside of each joist
is about 50cm. *This is too big for a car scissor jack - I had
imagined using a row of scissor jacks. *It's too small for an ACROW
prop.


You want trench props.http://www.toptower.co.uk/builders_props.htmwas
the first source thrown up by Google but there may be cheaper options.
As you only want to use them the once, a hire shop might sell some used
ones.



thank you all for your suggestions. Tony was right on the nail
though. TRENCH PROPS are exactly what I need. they come in just the
right sizes.

It is a permanent installation, but I might decide to move them around
if the piano is moved.

Rod's comments about doing otehr work down there at the same time it
well taken, but I have good access via a trap door so I can get down
there without too much effort.

Many thanks,

Robert

Robert


Tony Bryer May 20th 08 05:35 PM

How to prop up floor joists
 
On Tue, 20 May 2008 07:11:46 -0700 (PDT) RobertL wrote :
Under the house the gap between the earth to underside of each joist
is about 50cm. This is too big for a car scissor jack - I had
imagined using a row of scissor jacks. It's too small for an ACROW
prop.


You want trench props. http://www.toptower.co.uk/builders_props.htm was
the first source thrown up by Google but there may be cheaper options.
As you only want to use them the once, a hire shop might sell some used
ones.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk


Stuart Noble May 20th 08 06:44 PM

How to prop up floor joists
 
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 20 May 2008 07:11:46 -0700 (PDT), RobertL wrote:

One simple solution is to use some wooden 4"x2" props with carpenter's
wedges to adjust the height. But I am worried about creating a damp-
conducting path up to the joists even if I stand the base on damp
proofing membrane.


The normal solution would ne to build a sleeper wall under the joists and
pack up to the underside of the joists with a DPC (a bit of slate is
strong in compression). Props will work but you'll have to think of a way
of stopping the wedges working loose over time and possibly some means of
spreading the load on the soil so they don't sink in.


How much does this piano weigh? A Yamaha grand is only 250kgs. Ten bags
of sand isn't going to do much to any floor. People are quite heavy
these days as well.

Dave Plowman (News) May 20th 08 07:41 PM

How to prop up floor joists
 
In article
,
RobertL wrote:
Under the house the gap between the earth to underside of each joist
is about 50cm. This is too big for a car scissor jack - I had
imagined using a row of scissor jacks. It's too small for an ACROW
prop.


One simple solution is to use some wooden 4"x2" props with carpenter's
wedges to adjust the height. But I am worried about creating a damp-
conducting path up to the joists even if I stand the base on damp
proofing membrane.


The ground floor in my Victorian house was changed from sitting on wood
wall plates to 'floating' as part of damp and wood treatment. They built
brick piers and columns in the cellar with minimal footings which the
joists now rest on - via a cross joist or two. A simple damp proof
membrane between brick and wood.

--
*If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Tim Downie[_2_] May 20th 08 10:40 PM

How to prop up floor joists
 
George wrote:
"RobertL" wrote in message
...

I want to support my ground floor joists. This is partly to take the
weight of a piano and also because the joists do deflect rather a
lot anyway when weight is put on them (such as bookcases, cookers
etc.
The joists in these houses (8"x2" at 18" centres) are, apparently,
of rather poor quality and have shrunk and bent in every house in
eth development. They were built in 1964 - part of the "Span House"
movement. When the floor deflects the walls that are built on it
(of block) move and crack which is not nice.

Under the house the gap between the earth to underside of each joist
is about 50cm. This is too big for a car scissor jack - I had
imagined using a row of scissor jacks. It's too small for an ACROW
prop.

One simple solution is to use some wooden 4"x2" props with
carpenter's wedges to adjust the height. But I am worried about
creating a damp- conducting path up to the joists even if I stand
the base on damp proofing membrane.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Robert


House bricks and put a piece of insulation in between the joist and
the top brick ie plastic sheeting doubled over.


Might also be worth putting some noggins/dwangs in between the joists at
regular intervals to stop the joists twisting as they get loaded. Our
builder did this when sorting out our wonky dining room floor.

Tim



Dave Liquorice[_2_] May 20th 08 11:04 PM

How to prop up floor joists
 
On Tue, 20 May 2008 17:44:37 +0100, stuart noble wrote:

How much does this piano weigh? A Yamaha grand is only 250kgs. Ten bags
of sand isn't going to do much to any floor.


Not if you spread 'em out but pile 'em all in a heap at one side... The OP
has already stated the the floor and walls move enough to cause cracking
in normal use. 8 x 2 at 18" is, IMHO, a pretty light weight bouncy floor.
10 x 3 at 12 would be a good strong a floor.

--
Cheers
Dave.




[email protected] May 21st 08 12:24 AM

How to prop up floor joists
 
On 20 May, 15:11, RobertL wrote:
I want to support my ground floor joists. This is partly to take the
weight of a piano and also because the joists do deflect rather a lot
anyway when weight is put on them (such as bookcases, cookers etc.
The joists in these houses (8"x2" at 18" centres) are, apparently, of
rather poor quality and have shrunk and bent in every house in eth
development. They were built in 1964 - part of the "Span House"
movement. *When the floor deflects the walls that are built on it (of
block) move and crack which is not nice.

Under the house the gap between the earth to underside of each joist
is about 50cm. *This is too big for a car scissor jack - I had
imagined using a row of scissor jacks. *It's too small for an ACROW
prop.

One simple solution is to use some wooden 4"x2" props with carpenter's
wedges to adjust the height. *But I am worried about creating a damp-
conducting path up to the joists even if I stand the base on damp
proofing membrane.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Robert


Dear Robert

You do not state what span these joist are at. In a house of that age
the oversite "should" have been concrete. If it is not then you need
to found whatever you decide to use on a suitable base.
I am guessing that with 8" x 2" joists you have a decent sized room
say 20' long... so you need to halve the span. This really can only be
done sensibly as follows:
get yourself some decent sized concrete blocks and bed on the oversite
or if that is friable on the ground dug up under the oversite (ie dig
down to a solid-ish substrate) and fit the blocks at appropriate
centres - say 6' or so accross centre span. This is likely to be say
one each side of the room and two or possibly three in the middle.
Use the blocks to build up brick piers or if you so wish to use trench
acrows - which would be more expensive and prone to rust but much
quicker
If you do use them - liberally cover in red lead or the equivalent now
that has been banned.
Surmounting the piers or on top of the trench acrows should be a
decent sized wall plate say 4" x 4" which in the case of the acrows
can be screwed up but if you accept my and the others' suggestion of a
brick pier 9" x 9" - once fully set and strong (7 to 10 days with 3:1
sand cement mortar) then use slate wedges to pack up each plate to the
joists. Have a layer of dry pack in between slate lamina so there are
no slip planes

Lastsly, screw or nail joists to plate and supplement this with solid
strutting further to stiffen the structure
Chris G

[email protected] May 21st 08 01:04 AM

How to prop up floor joists
 
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 20 May 2008 17:44:37 +0100, stuart noble wrote:


How much does this piano weigh? A Yamaha grand is only 250kgs. Ten bags
of sand isn't going to do much to any floor.


Not if you spread 'em out but pile 'em all in a heap at one side... The OP
has already stated the the floor and walls move enough to cause cracking
in normal use. 8 x 2 at 18" is, IMHO, a pretty light weight bouncy floor.


its way bigger than I'm used to, I'm surprised the OP is having
problems. A sleeper wall is good, halving the span makes a world
of difference, and a dwarf block wall is inherently proof against
localised sinking, which may happen.


NT

RobertL May 21st 08 09:42 AM

How to prop up floor joists
 
On May 21, 12:04*am, wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 20 May 2008 17:44:37 +0100, stuart noble wrote:
How much does this piano weigh? A Yamaha grand is only 250kgs. Ten bags
of sand isn't going to do much to any floor.

Not if you spread 'em out but pile 'em all in a heap at one side... The OP
has already stated the the floor and walls move enough to cause cracking
in normal use. 8 x 2 at 18" is, IMHO, a pretty light weight bouncy floor..


its way bigger than I'm used to, I'm surprised the OP is having
problems. A sleeper wall is good, halving the span makes a world
of difference, and a dwarf block wall is inherently proof against
localised sinking, which may happen.



I should have added that the span is 5 metres. These houses were
notorious when built in teh 1960s. Some of the original bueyrs still
live here so they can tell the tale. It is said that the builders
used cheap, undried joists imported from scandinavia and within 10
years they had all shrunk by 1/4 inch (i.e. 8" became 7.75". This
left a 1/4" gap under all the skirting boats plus curious effects
where some internal walls stayed up (where attached to the outder
walls) and others sank. in addition to the shrinkage, the joists
sagged where internal (block) walls rest on them and they are very
springy.


Robert

RobertL May 21st 08 09:51 AM

How to prop up floor joists
 
On May 20, 11:24*pm, wrote:
On 20 May, 15:11, RobertL wrote:





I want to support my ground floor joists. This is partly to take the
weight of a piano and also because the joists do deflect rather a lot
anyway when weight is put on them (such as bookcases, cookers etc.
The joists in these houses (8"x2" at 18" centres) are, apparently, of
rather poor quality and have shrunk and bent in every house in eth
development. They were built in 1964 - part of the "Span House"
movement. *When the floor deflects the walls that are built on it (of
block) move and crack which is not nice.


Under the house the gap between the earth to underside of each joist
is about 50cm. *This is too big for a car scissor jack - I had
imagined using a row of scissor jacks. *It's too small for an ACROW
prop.


One simple solution is to use some wooden 4"x2" props with carpenter's
wedges to adjust the height. *But I am worried about creating a damp-
conducting path up to the joists even if I stand the base on damp
proofing membrane.


Does anyone have any other suggestions?


Robert


Dear Robert

You do not state what span these joist are at. *In a house of that age
the oversite "should" have been concrete. If it is not then you need
to found whatever you decide to use on a suitable base.
I am guessing that with 8" x 2" joists you have a decent sized room
say 20' long... so you need to halve the span. This really can only be
done sensibly as follows:
get yourself some decent sized concrete blocks and bed on the oversite
or if that is friable on the ground dug up under the oversite (ie dig
down to a solid-ish substrate) and fit the blocks at appropriate
centres - say 6' or so accross centre span. This is likely to be say
one each side of the room and two or possibly three in the middle.
Use the blocks to build up brick piers or if you so wish to use trench
acrows - which would be more expensive and prone to rust but much
quicker
If you do use them - liberally cover in red lead or the equivalent now
that has been banned.
Surmounting the piers or on top of the trench acrows should be a
decent sized wall plate say 4" x 4" which in the case of the acrows
can be screwed up but if you accept my and the others' suggestion of a
brick pier 9" x 9" - once fully set and strong (7 to 10 days with 3:1
sand cement mortar) then use slate wedges to pack up each plate to the
joists. Have a layer of dry pack in between slate lamina so there are
no slip planes

Lastsly, screw or nail joists to plate and supplement this with solid
strutting further *to stiffen the structure
Chris G- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Thank you for this very detailed suggestion Chris. I'll try
diggindigging down to see if i find concrete or earth. I already
removed a lot of old rubble and 1960s cigarette packets etc. I
suspect the underneath of the houses was used as a dump by the
builders for old materials and that there may well be a conrete layer
a little further down. Clearly a form bedding is needed for whatever
solution I adopt.

The span is about 15 feet. ironically the style of housing is called
"Span House". Here's an example of the type of house (though mine has
a pitched roof on it and looks much nicer).

http://www.propertyfinder.com/cgi-bi...o&id=502649078

Robert

Maris May 21st 08 02:19 PM

How to prop up floor joists
 
On Wed, 21 May 2008 00:51:28 -0700 (PDT), RobertL
wrote:


Thank you for this very detailed suggestion Chris. I'll try
diggindigging down to see if i find concrete or earth. I already
removed a lot of old rubble and 1960s cigarette packets etc. I
suspect the underneath of the houses was used as a dump by the
builders for old materials and that there may well be a conrete layer
a little further down. Clearly a form bedding is needed for whatever
solution I adopt.

The span is about 15 feet. ironically the style of housing is called
"Span House". Here's an example of the type of house (though mine has
a pitched roof on it and looks much nicer).

http://www.propertyfinder.com/cgi-bi...o&id=502649078

Robert


Oh dear, Eric Lyons will be turning in his grave. His best know
development in partnership with Span was New Ash Green. So it's not
just the concrete monstrosities by the likes of the Smithsons in the
fifties that have problems :-(

Maris

[email protected] May 21st 08 02:57 PM

How to prop up floor joists
 
RobertL wrote:
On May 21, 12:04�am, wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 20 May 2008 17:44:37 +0100, stuart noble wrote:


How much does this piano weigh? A Yamaha grand is only 250kgs. Ten bags
of sand isn't going to do much to any floor.
Not if you spread 'em out but pile 'em all in a heap at one side... The OP
has already stated the the floor and walls move enough to cause cracking
in normal use. 8 x 2 at 18" is, IMHO, a pretty light weight bouncy floor.


its way bigger than I'm used to, I'm surprised the OP is having
problems. A sleeper wall is good, halving the span makes a world
of difference, and a dwarf block wall is inherently proof against
localised sinking, which may happen.



I should have added that the span is 5 metres. These houses were
notorious when built in teh 1960s. Some of the original bueyrs still
live here so they can tell the tale. It is said that the builders
used cheap, undried joists imported from scandinavia and within 10
years they had all shrunk by 1/4 inch (i.e. 8" became 7.75". This
left a 1/4" gap under all the skirting boats plus curious effects
where some internal walls stayed up (where attached to the outder
walls) and others sank. in addition to the shrinkage, the joists
sagged where internal (block) walls rest on them and they are very
springy.


Robert


Right. Halving span should work nicely. If you want to see for
yourself how much difference it makes, get a small bit of scrap
wood, support it at its ends and push down to see it deflect, then
add a central support and try again. Big difference.


NT

RobertL May 21st 08 04:32 PM

How to prop up floor joists
 
On May 21, 3:57*pm, Tony Bryer wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2008 13:19:20 +0100 Maris wrote :

http://www.propertyfinder.com/cgi-bi...o&id=502649078


Robert


Oh dear, Eric Lyons will be turning in his grave. His best know
development in partnership with Span *was New Ash Green. So it's not
just the concrete monstrosities by the likes of the Smithsons in the
fifties that have problems :-(


There are similar houses near me (Fieldend, Teddington): my
grandfather's house was one of those knocked down to build the estate.
The thing that would really put me off is that when you buy such a
house you have to sign up for a whole load of rules.

From the rules of Span, Weybridge

"Most two-storey houses have a small area in front, which is part of
the estate grounds and not the owner’s property. Maintenance of these
areas is the responsibility of the contractor and no unauthorised
planting or sowing is permitted. In particular, the landscape design
for the estate specifies that these areas should be planted with
non-flowering shrubs and plants. Flowers and bulbs are not, therefore,
appropriate or permitted"

though

" as a result of a referendum held in 1990, the Society now permit the
replacement of wooden windows and doors by UPVC ones on the condition
that only authorised profiles, materials and colours are used. Failure
to use specified styles and materials could render the householder
liable for violation of the lease agreement leading to enforcement
action,"

http://www.weymede.co.uk/resident_so...fact_sheet.htm



We have no such rules in our little estate of Span houses. The
houses are actually great with huge windows and a real feeing of the
outside being connected to the inside.

Robert


Tony Bryer May 21st 08 04:57 PM

How to prop up floor joists
 
On Wed, 21 May 2008 13:19:20 +0100 Maris wrote :
http://www.propertyfinder.com/cgi-bi...o&id=502649078

Robert


Oh dear, Eric Lyons will be turning in his grave. His best know
development in partnership with Span was New Ash Green. So it's not
just the concrete monstrosities by the likes of the Smithsons in the
fifties that have problems :-(


There are similar houses near me (Fieldend, Teddington): my
grandfather's house was one of those knocked down to build the estate.
The thing that would really put me off is that when you buy such a
house you have to sign up for a whole load of rules.

From the rules of Span, Weybridge

"Most two-storey houses have a small area in front, which is part of
the estate grounds and not the owner’s property. Maintenance of these
areas is the responsibility of the contractor and no unauthorised
planting or sowing is permitted. In particular, the landscape design
for the estate specifies that these areas should be planted with
non-flowering shrubs and plants. Flowers and bulbs are not, therefore,
appropriate or permitted"

though

" as a result of a referendum held in 1990, the Society now permit the
replacement of wooden windows and doors by UPVC ones on the condition
that only authorised profiles, materials and colours are used. Failure
to use specified styles and materials could render the householder
liable for violation of the lease agreement leading to enforcement
action,"

http://www.weymede.co.uk/resident_so...fact_sheet.htm

It might suit some people, but not me.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk


Maris May 22nd 08 12:36 AM

How to prop up floor joists
 
On Wed, 21 May 2008 14:57:33 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

On Wed, 21 May 2008 13:19:20 +0100 Maris wrote :
http://www.propertyfinder.com/cgi-bi...o&id=502649078

Robert


Oh dear, Eric Lyons will be turning in his grave. His best know
development in partnership with Span was New Ash Green. So it's not
just the concrete monstrosities by the likes of the Smithsons in the
fifties that have problems :-(


There are similar houses near me (Fieldend, Teddington): my
grandfather's house was one of those knocked down to build the estate.
The thing that would really put me off is that when you buy such a
house you have to sign up for a whole load of rules.

From the rules of Span, Weybridge

"Most two-storey houses have a small area in front, which is part of
the estate grounds and not the owner’s property. Maintenance of these
areas is the responsibility of the contractor and no unauthorised
planting or sowing is permitted. In particular, the landscape design
for the estate specifies that these areas should be planted with
non-flowering shrubs and plants. Flowers and bulbs are not, therefore,
appropriate or permitted"

though

" as a result of a referendum held in 1990, the Society now permit the
replacement of wooden windows and doors by UPVC ones on the condition
that only authorised profiles, materials and colours are used. Failure
to use specified styles and materials could render the householder
liable for violation of the lease agreement leading to enforcement
action,"

http://www.weymede.co.uk/resident_so...fact_sheet.htm

It might suit some people, but not me.


I know those conditions sound draconian but these houses were designed
for a particular clientele, who were, of course, middle class and very
design conscious. I would have been even more draconian and allowed
only wooden windows! As for the planting I've always favoured
architectural planting as opposed to pretty flowers. It's like
comparing the Royal Crescent, bath (and the discipline of its
uniformity - the whole is greater than the sum of the parts) with
council blocks where the tenants have changed their uniform front
doors with 'Carolina' style Magnet (when they were still making
joinery) doors.
Maris

RobertL May 22nd 08 09:18 AM

How to prop up floor joists
 
On May 21, 11:36*pm, Maris wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2008 14:57:33 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:





On Wed, 21 May 2008 13:19:20 +0100 Maris wrote :
http://www.propertyfinder.com/cgi-bi...o&id=502649078


Robert


Oh dear, Eric Lyons will be turning in his grave. His best know
development in partnership with Span *was New Ash Green. So it's not
just the concrete monstrosities by the likes of the Smithsons in the
fifties that have problems :-(


There are similar houses near me (Fieldend, Teddington): my
grandfather's house was one of those knocked down to build the estate.
The thing that would really put me off is that when you buy such a
house you have to sign up for a whole load of rules.


From the rules of Span, Weybridge


"Most two-storey houses have a small area in front, which is part of
the estate grounds and not the owner’s property. Maintenance of these
areas is the responsibility of the contractor and no unauthorised
planting or sowing is permitted. In particular, the landscape design
for the estate specifies that these areas should be planted with
non-flowering shrubs and plants. Flowers and bulbs are not, therefore,
appropriate or permitted"


though


" as a result of a referendum held in 1990, the Society now permit the
replacement of wooden windows and doors by UPVC ones on the condition
that only authorised profiles, materials and colours are used. Failure
to use specified styles and materials could render the householder
liable for violation of the lease agreement leading to enforcement
action,"


http://www.weymede.co.uk/resident_so...fact_sheet.htm


It might suit some people, but not me.


I know those conditions sound draconian but these houses were designed
for a particular clientele, who were, of course, middle class and very
design conscious. *I would have been even more draconian and allowed
only wooden windows! As for the planting I've always favoured
architectural planting as opposed to pretty flowers. It's like
comparing the Royal Crescent, bath (and the discipline of its
uniformity - the whole is greater than the sum of the parts) with
council blocks where the tenants have changed their uniform front
doors with 'Carolina' style Magnet (when they were still making
joinery) doors.
Maris


yes, I am inclined to agree. As long as peopple clearly understand
what they are buying. It seems good to me that a variety of control
levels is a good thing.

Although our Span hosues (in Cambridge) have a rather cheap
construction they do have nice features such as solid beech flooring
and mahogany tongue and groove wall panelling.

Our only rule (completely ignored by all) is a prohibition of
externally mounted TV aerials.

Robert


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