Doing up 22mm compression fittings
 

I've recently been re-plumbing my airing cupboard, in order to replace the
hot cylinder which was leaking. Since the new one has a bigger coil than the
old one, the primary connections are further apart causing the pipework to
need re-rigging - so I decided to convert from Y-Plan to S-Plan while I was
at it, using Honeywell 22mm 2-port valves. I've also used several Peglar
quarter turn full-bore lever valves, to enable various bits to be isolated
easily. The Honeywell and Peglar valves were all supplied with 22mm
compression fittings, and I was amazed at the amount of torque required to
get them 'tight'.

Wherever possible, I initially made the joints 'off-line' by holding the
valve body in a vice while doing up the compression nut. On numerous
occasions I found that after doing up the nut with a 15" adjustable spammer,
using far more torque than *felt* [1] right, if I took it apart again the
olive would still rotate fairly freely on the (copper) pipe.

Is this what usually happens, or was I doing something wrong?

I eventually got them tight by using even more brute force - and then put a
smear of Screwfix 'no nonsense' leak sealant round both sides of the olive
for the good measure - and all seems ok. But the amount of force I had to
apply still worries me a bit.

Any comments?

[1] After 50 years of DIY, car maintenance, etc. I reckon you develop an
instinctive 'feel' for what is right when doing up bolts and nuts - without
reference to torque wrenches, etc.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored..
Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks. PLEASE REPLY TO
NEWSGROUP!

Doing up 22mm compression fittings
 

On May 8, 2:35*pm, "Roger Mills" wrote:
I've recently been re-plumbing my airing cupboard, in order to replace the
hot cylinder which was leaking. Since the new one has a bigger coil than the
old one, the primary connections are further apart causing the pipework to
need re-rigging - so I decided to convert from Y-Plan to S-Plan while I was
at it, using Honeywell 22mm 2-port valves. I've also used several Peglar
quarter turn full-bore lever valves, to enable various bits to be isolated
easily. The Honeywell and Peglar valves were all supplied with 22mm
compression fittings, and I was amazed at the amount of torque required to
get them 'tight'.

Wherever possible, I initially made the joints 'off-line' by holding the
valve body in a vice while doing up the compression nut. On numerous
occasions I found that after doing up the nut with a 15" adjustable spammer,
using far more torque than *felt* [1] right, if I took it apart again the
olive would still rotate fairly freely on the (copper) pipe.

Is this what usually happens, or was I doing something wrong?

I eventually got them tight by using even more brute force - and then put a
smear of Screwfix 'no nonsense' leak sealant round both sides of the olive
for the good measure - and all seems ok. But the amount of force I had to
apply still worries me a bit.

Any comments?


Are you sure you weren't putting a 22mm fitting on an older 3/4 inch
OD pipe? You can get special 'fat' olives to cope with the small
difference. I had this problem in my 1960s house.

Robert

Doing up 22mm compression fittings
 

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
RobertL wrote:

On May 8, 2:35 pm, "Roger Mills" wrote:
I've recently been re-plumbing my airing cupboard, in order to
replace the hot cylinder which was leaking. Since the new one has a
bigger coil than the old one, the primary connections are further
apart causing the pipework to need re-rigging - so I decided to
convert from Y-Plan to S-Plan while I was at it, using Honeywell
22mm 2-port valves. I've also used several Peglar quarter turn
full-bore lever valves, to enable various bits to be isolated
easily. The Honeywell and Peglar valves were all supplied with 22mm
compression fittings, and I was amazed at the amount of torque
required to get them 'tight'.

Wherever possible, I initially made the joints 'off-line' by holding
the valve body in a vice while doing up the compression nut. On
numerous occasions I found that after doing up the nut with a 15"
adjustable spammer, using far more torque than *felt* [1] right, if
I took it apart again the olive would still rotate fairly freely on
the (copper) pipe.

Is this what usually happens, or was I doing something wrong?

I eventually got them tight by using even more brute force - and
then put a smear of Screwfix 'no nonsense' leak sealant round both
sides of the olive for the good measure - and all seems ok. But the
amount of force I had to apply still worries me a bit.

Any comments?


Are you sure you weren't putting a 22mm fitting on an older 3/4 inch
OD pipe? You can get special 'fat' olives to cope with the small
difference. I had this problem in my 1960s house.

Robert

Yes. One end of one or two of the isolator valves were on 3/4" pipe - for
which I used the proper 3/4" imperial olives. But the problems to which I
initially referred were with brand new 22mm copper pipe, using the 22mm
olives supplied with the fittings.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Doing up 22mm compression fittings
 

In article ,
"Roger Mills" writes:

Yes. One end of one or two of the isolator valves were on 3/4" pipe - for
which I used the proper 3/4" imperial olives. But the problems to which I
initially referred were with brand new 22mm copper pipe, using the 22mm
olives supplied with the fittings.

They do need quite a lot of force (possibly more so for brass
olives than copper olives). For 22mm compression joints, I put
a couple of turns of PTFE on the thread and on the rear half
of the olive to act as a lubricant whilst tightening, but I'm
very careful not to get it into any of the sealing surfaces.
(If you disassemble again before final assembly, you can take
the PTFE off once the olive is deformed onto the pipe.)

I found it also made a big difference having spanners which
are exactly the right size. On 15mm, I had written off a
couple of nuts using an adjustable spanner whose jaws were
perhaps not completely parallel due to give in the sliding
mechanism. The spanner managed to squish the nut into a
slight oval shape, which of course never managed to make a
seal.

I never use compression fittings except where I have to.
My preferred option is soldered fittings, but obviously
not usable or applicable in all cases.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Doing up 22mm compression fittings
 

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Roger Mills" writes:

Yes. One end of one or two of the isolator valves were on 3/4" pipe - for
which I used the proper 3/4" imperial olives. But the problems to which I
initially referred were with brand new 22mm copper pipe, using the 22mm
olives supplied with the fittings.

They do need quite a lot of force (possibly more so for brass
olives than copper olives). For 22mm compression joints, I put
a couple of turns of PTFE on the thread and on the rear half
of the olive to act as a lubricant whilst tightening, but I'm
very careful not to get it into any of the sealing surfaces.
(If you disassemble again before final assembly, you can take
the PTFE off once the olive is deformed onto the pipe.)



Andrew - why not use a smear of oil or grease instead of PTFE tape?

Doing up 22mm compression fittings
 

In article ,
"John" writes:

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Roger Mills" writes:

Yes. One end of one or two of the isolator valves were on 3/4" pipe - for
which I used the proper 3/4" imperial olives. But the problems to which I
initially referred were with brand new 22mm copper pipe, using the 22mm
olives supplied with the fittings.

They do need quite a lot of force (possibly more so for brass
olives than copper olives). For 22mm compression joints, I put
a couple of turns of PTFE on the thread and on the rear half
of the olive to act as a lubricant whilst tightening, but I'm
very careful not to get it into any of the sealing surfaces.
(If you disassemble again before final assembly, you can take
the PTFE off once the olive is deformed onto the pipe.)

Andrew - why not use a smear of oil or grease instead of PTFE tape?

Could do.
When plumbing, there's usually a roll of PTFE tape around
(if not several). Also, it doesn't leave any residue behind.
Oil or grease might later run out of the joint and down the
outside of the pipe.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Doing up 22mm compression fittings
 

Roger Mills wrote:

Wherever possible, I initially made the joints 'off-line' by holding the
valve body in a vice while doing up the compression nut. On numerous
occasions I found that after doing up the nut with a 15" adjustable spammer,
using far more torque than *felt* [1] right, if I took it apart again the
olive would still rotate fairly freely on the (copper) pipe.

Is this what usually happens, or was I doing something wrong?

Some lubrication often helps - I usually use a small amount of PTFE on
the fitting just to aid tightening - saves the joint making that nasty
squeaking noise as you go as well!

I also have a big adjustable spanner that is sort of crossed with a mole
grip style locking mechanism. You wind it down to size like normal - but
then squeezing the extra side handle locks it on the nut.

--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

Doing up 22mm compression fittings
 

Try a smear of boss white on the threads to lubricate them and another
smear around the olive. It works every time for him.

Doing up 22mm compression fittings
 

John Rumm wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

Wherever possible, I initially made the joints 'off-line' by holding
the valve body in a vice while doing up the compression nut. On
numerous occasions I found that after doing up the nut with a 15"
adjustable spammer, using far more torque than *felt* [1] right, if
I took it apart again the olive would still rotate fairly freely on
the (copper) pipe. Is this what usually happens, or was I doing something
wrong?

Some lubrication often helps - I usually use a small amount of PTFE on
the fitting just to aid tightening - saves the joint making that nasty
squeaking noise as you go as well!

I also have a big adjustable spanner that is sort of crossed with a
mole grip style locking mechanism. You wind it down to size like
normal - but then squeezing the extra side handle locks it on the
nut.

I've got one of those as well, made by Stanley Tools. Brilliant. A Godsend
when plumbing, like having an extra hand - lock it onto the fitting & it
stays there.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-S...ench-23330.htm

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Doing up 22mm compression fittings
 

The Medway Handyman wrote:

I've got one of those as well, made by Stanley Tools. Brilliant. A Godsend
when plumbing, like having an extra hand - lock it onto the fitting & it
stays there.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-S...ench-23330.htm

Yup, that's the beastie...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Doing up 22mm compression fittings
 

wrote:
Try a smear of boss white on the threads to lubricate them and another
smear around the olive. It works every time for him.

Yup that works (although Boss green would probably be better for
drinking water), but you do end up smelling like putty for many hours
after! Hence why the tape is quick easy and non messy.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/