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Fraser October 2nd 03 11:52 PM

Advice on smoothing plaster wall
 
Hi,

I'm completely redecorating a room in my hundred year-old flat. The walls
are old horse-hair plaster and were originally covered in wallpaper. I want
to get the wall as smooth as possible for painting.

After removing the wallpaper with a steamer, and clearing up the leftover
paste, I filled and sanded repairs on about 20% of the wall. I thought this
was adequate, as the wall appeared pretty level.

However, after priming and putting on two coats of white emulsion, the wall
surface looks pretty bad in daylight. Most of the repairs are individually
not too bad, but the overall effect makes the wall look shoddy. Under
artificial light (which I painted under), it's not bad at all. It also seems
as though when the room was last decorated, the intention was to wallpaper
and the walls weren't skimmed, as the unblemished areas aren't too great
either.

What are my options to get the smooth finish that plaster deserves? I'm
thinking of taking an orbital sander to it, but after hand-sanding on a
sample area, it looks like that'll be messy and a lot of work. I've also
tried a diy skim with caulk where required to smooth bits out, which was not
bad, but a lot of work and won't be suitable for all parts of it. Another
option would be to go with painting over backing paper, which looks
relatively easy & cheap.

I could alternatively reskim the walls, but I don't want to spend a large
amount of money on it. The room is approximately 3x4 meters, height 3
meters, does anyone know an approximate cost of getting it skimmed? Would
the new paint need stripped off first? Skipping the door-wall might be an
option, as I'm fitting wardrobes that'll use the wall as their back, so the
finish isn't essential here.

Any advice would be welcome! I passed the "wish I hadn't started" stage some
time ago... ;-)


Thanks in advance,

Fraser

PS thanks for the previous discussions, google groops has been great in
getting me this far. I'm a total beginner at this stuff!



Simon October 3rd 03 12:39 AM

Advice on smoothing plaster wall
 

"Fraser" wrote in message
...

line, or even double-line the walls with a heavy weight lining paper (if
double lining go horizontally then vertically)



Andrew Gabriel October 3rd 03 01:29 AM

Advice on smoothing plaster wall
 
In article ,
"Fraser" writes:

I could alternatively reskim the walls, but I don't want to spend a large
amount of money on it. The room is approximately 3x4 meters, height 3
meters, does anyone know an approximate cost of getting it skimmed?


I guess 1-1.5 day's work for a plasterer. Depending where in
the country, I would expect you'll pay £100-200/day plus materials
(which cost very little).

Would the new paint need stripped off first?


No, providing it's not in danger of pulling off.

Skipping the door-wall might be an
option, as I'm fitting wardrobes that'll use the wall as their back, so the
finish isn't essential here.


At a day's work, you may find you are below the minimum a
plasterer will be interested in taking on. If you are
likely to need anywhere else doing too, lumping it in to
the one job might improve your chances of finding someone
willing to turn up.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Harris October 3rd 03 10:32 AM

Advice on smoothing plaster wall
 
"Fraser" wrote in message ...
Hi,

snip


there is a polycell plaster repair filler which is pretty good at
covering problems...

I always paint the walls with a cheap white paint, this shows up the
problems, fill all the bits, then paint it again with the cheap stuff
just to make sure its ok, then paint it for real...

I would suggest just filling the really bad ones, sanding the wall by
hand (i found it quicker than an orbital sander? and you get a flater
finish because your not just sanding little areas at a time) just to
remove any lumps, then use lining paper.... then paint..

BillR October 3rd 03 11:55 AM

Advice on smoothing plaster wall
 
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Fraser" writes:

I could alternatively reskim the walls, but I don't want to spend a
large amount of money on it. The room is approximately 3x4 meters,
height 3 meters, does anyone know an approximate cost of getting it
skimmed?


I guess 1-1.5 day's work for a plasterer. Depending where in
the country, I would expect you'll pay £100-200/day plus materials
(which cost very little).

I just had quote of £200, inc materials, for similar sized room in SW
London.



stuart noble October 3rd 03 12:42 PM

Advice on smoothing plaster wall
 

Harris wrote in message . ..
"Fraser" wrote in message

...
Hi,

snip


there is a polycell plaster repair filler which is pretty good at
covering problems...

I always paint the walls with a cheap white paint, this shows up the
problems, fill all the bits, then paint it again with the cheap stuff
just to make sure its ok, then paint it for real...

I would suggest just filling the really bad ones, sanding the wall by
hand (i found it quicker than an orbital sander? and you get a flater
finish because your not just sanding little areas at a time) just to
remove any lumps, then use lining paper.... then paint..

A couple of coats of pva makes the lining paper easier to hang and gives a
flatter surface when it dries. The paper doesn't hug the wall quite so much.



David October 3rd 03 02:57 PM

Advice on smoothing plaster wall
 
"Simon" wrote in message ...
"Fraser" wrote in message
...

line, or even double-line the walls with a heavy weight lining paper (if
double lining go horizontally then vertically)


I've never understood why it is that you're supposed to line
horizontally, which has always struck me as a damned awkward thing to
do. Provided you make sure the seams of the lining and top layer
don't coincide - which is easy enough to do - why can't you line
vertically (I always have done so myself).

David

Simon October 3rd 03 05:00 PM

Advice on smoothing plaster wall
 


I've never understood why it is that you're supposed to line
horizontally, which has always struck me as a damned awkward thing to
do. Provided you make sure the seams of the lining and top layer
don't coincide - which is easy enough to do - why can't you line
vertically (I always have done so myself).

David


interesting point David, I don't really know why, but I know that it is done
and i have done it myself and it wasn't as hard as first thought. i assume
that the cross laying is done for a little extra strength and insurance
against possible cracks reappearing, though i am not sure how effective it
really is as the paper doesn't really have a directional grain structure.
perhaps it's because it's easier to hide the underlying seam by laying
across rather than with, because gravity and natural shrinking of the paper
along it's length stretches the top layer out and the capillary action is
less likely to pull it in to the underlying seam.
perhaps it's both of the above ;-)



Bob Mannix October 3rd 03 05:05 PM

Advice on smoothing plaster wall
 

"Simon" wrote in message
...


I've never understood why it is that you're supposed to line
horizontally, which has always struck me as a damned awkward thing to
do. Provided you make sure the seams of the lining and top layer
don't coincide - which is easy enough to do - why can't you line
vertically (I always have done so myself).

David


interesting point David, I don't really know why, but I know that it is

done
and i have done it myself and it wasn't as hard as first thought. i assume
that the cross laying is done for a little extra strength and insurance
against possible cracks reappearing, though i am not sure how effective it
really is as the paper doesn't really have a directional grain structure.
perhaps it's because it's easier to hide the underlying seam by laying
across rather than with, because gravity and natural shrinking of the

paper
along it's length stretches the top layer out and the capillary action is
less likely to pull it in to the underlying seam.
perhaps it's both of the above ;-)



I never hang lining paper horizontally

I have used lining paper extensively since the 1980's up to and including
2003 and never had a single problem

If they didn't expect you to use it vertically, it would be the same width
as wallpaper (it's wider, so, if two seams accidentally get close this
doesn't repeat)

If you have S&M tendencies (well, M really), carry on hanging it
horizontally (but no-one will ever know as you can't see the difference)

If you have better things to do than wrestle with sticky paper against
gravity, get the stuff on the wall as quickly and neatly as possible and get
on with life!

All IMHO, of course :-)


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)



Fraser October 3rd 03 09:47 PM

Advice on smoothing plaster wall
 
"Simon" wrote in message
...

line, or even double-line the walls with a heavy weight lining paper (if
double lining go horizontally then vertically)


Thanks for all the responces, more than I expected!

If I were to go with backing paper, is there any good way to avoid visable
seams? I read in another post someone suggesting leaving a small gap between
each, and filling with caulk or plaster. Or can someone with average
papering ability get a decent effect by just papering normally, and having
them meet flushly?

Also, is heavy-weight neccessary? I've read in other posts that it may
shrink more than normal paper, making the gaps noticable.

Cheers,

Fraser.




Fraser October 3rd 03 09:55 PM

Advice on smoothing plaster wall
 

"BillR" wrote in message
...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I guess 1-1.5 day's work for a plasterer. Depending where in
the country, I would expect you'll pay £100-200/day plus materials
(which cost very little).


I just had quote of £200, inc materials, for similar sized room in SW
London.


Ouch, quite expensive. Sounds like the backing paper might be a better
option for me. A friend did mention to me that it can be hard to get someone
out for a small job. Given the hastle involved, I think I'll go with the
paper. I can get it over-and-done-with this weekend that way.

Mind you, given the cost, I'm considering talking a skimming class at a
local college or something. Would likely be much cheaper, and a useful skill
to have. Will check that one out tonight.

Thanks for the help!

Fraser.



Fraser October 3rd 03 10:01 PM

Advice on smoothing plaster wall
 

"Harris" wrote in message
om...

I would suggest just filling the really bad ones, sanding the wall by
hand (i found it quicker than an orbital sander? and you get a flater
finish because your not just sanding little areas at a time) just to
remove any lumps, then use lining paper.... then paint..


Cool. At the moment, I think I'm pretty much at the lining paper stage
already from your description. I've already done quite a few fills, though
there are some ones that were missed or need a little more work.

None of the transitions between fix and original plaster are greater than
1mm though. Would backing-paper cover that without much preparation? Would
the extra coats of PVA suggested by Stuart make this even less noticable?

Cheers,

Fraser.



Simon October 4th 03 12:10 AM

Advice on smoothing plaster wall
 

"Fraser" wrote in message
...

Thanks for all the responces, more than I expected!

If I were to go with backing paper, is there any good way to avoid visable
seams? I read in another post someone suggesting leaving a small gap

between
each, and filling with caulk or plaster. Or can someone with average
papering ability get a decent effect by just papering normally, and having
them meet flushly?

Also, is heavy-weight neccessary? I've read in other posts that it may
shrink more than normal paper, making the gaps noticable.

Cheers,

Fraser.


Whether the heavyweight is necessary really depends on your walls and as I
can't see them, I can't comment. but the heavyweight is better at hiding
uneven walls, as is double lining.
As to laying technique, the paper is going to shrink a little and you are
stuck with that fact. There are 2 methods that I have seen used. 1 is to
overlap slightly, let it dry out and shrink and then sand the seams even.
The other is to butt them, or leave a slight gap, let it dry out and shrink,
then fill the gaps. The best stuff for filling the gaps, that I know of, is
something called Red Devil One-Time, it's a light weight non shrinking
filler and with a bit of work with a wet knife, you can make the seams
invisible.

hope that helps



Fraser October 4th 03 10:38 PM

Advice on smoothing plaster wall
 
Thanks for the help everyone!!

Fraser.



Charles Lamont October 5th 03 10:37 PM

Advice on smoothing plaster wall
 
You might want to think about the walls a bit before applying all this
PVA and multiple test coats of cheap paint.

I think you said the building was 100 years old and the walls were
coated with lime plaster. I imagine there is also no cavity. This means
that your walls are likely to benefit from being allowed to breathe.
Layers of vinyl will not assist porosity.

Mind you, one advantage of cheap emulsion is that it may not be a vinyl
paint. Trade paints are apparently available for applying to fresh
plaster, and these are not vinyl based for just that reason. I would not
think that lining paper would present a problem in this respect.

--
Charles Lamont

Fraser October 13th 03 12:37 PM

Advice on smoothing plaster wall
 

"Charles Lamont" wrote in message
...
You might want to think about the walls a bit before applying all this
PVA and multiple test coats of cheap paint.

I think you said the building was 100 years old and the walls were
coated with lime plaster. I imagine there is also no cavity. This means
that your walls are likely to benefit from being allowed to breathe.
Layers of vinyl will not assist porosity.


Fortunately, there is a cavity; the plaster walls are attached to the brick
with a cavity of about one inch. This seems well ventilated; you can feel
draughts at the back boxes when it's windy outside.


Mind you, one advantage of cheap emulsion is that it may not be a vinyl
paint. Trade paints are apparently available for applying to fresh
plaster, and these are not vinyl based for just that reason. I would not
think that lining paper would present a problem in this respect.


Will look into this; currently getting a couple of skim quotes for the work,
to see how that compares to other options.

Also, I didn't go for the cheapest emulsion, got the "middle" priced one.
;-)


Cheers for your suggestions,

Fraser.




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