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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the
place round here. Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#2
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
On 21 Mar, 17:37, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote: Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the place round here. Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. -- Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 Any clues as to the wobbly wall's construction ? Simon. |
#3
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
sm_jamieson wrote:
On 21 Mar, 17:37, "The Medway Handyman" wrote: Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the place round here. Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. Any clues as to the wobbly wall's construction ? About 3" thick, plasterboard either side, insulation in the middle. Found the occassionaly wooden stud. All the internal walls were the same. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#4
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message ... Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the place round here. Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. Dave-the Medway handy gorilla. |
#5
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message ... Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the place round here. Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 It sounds like the screw you used to hold the clock was not the correct type. It should be one with a round head and flat underside so that it fits in the slot. The clock shouldn't move if fitted correctly. If the fixing on the clock was faulty I would be getting in touch with the manufacturer. Which builder was it that put a house up with a wall so thin it moved if hit with a screwdriver? It wouldn't pass a building inspection in the condition you describe. Which company supplied the bathroom suite? I have never known a toilet seat lid to crack or break unless a person is extremely obese or they have "landed" on it, or dropped tools on it. If all houses are built in such an unacceptable way you should name the builder so we can all avoid them in future. |
#6
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
"GT" wrote in message ... "The Medway Handyman" wrote in message ... Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the place round here. Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 It sounds like the screw you used to hold the clock was not the correct type. It should be one with a round head and flat underside so that it fits in the slot. The clock shouldn't move if fitted correctly. If the fixing on the clock was faulty I would be getting in touch with the manufacturer. Which builder was it that put a house up with a wall so thin it moved if hit with a screwdriver? It wouldn't pass a building inspection in the condition you describe. Which company supplied the bathroom suite? I have never known a toilet seat lid to crack or break unless a person is extremely obese or they have "landed" on it, or dropped tools on it. If all houses are built in such an unacceptable way you should name the builder so we can all avoid them in future. The upstairs walls of my 20 year old house are just plasterboard. The builder fitted a batten along the ceiling and one on the floor and then erected a plasterboard wall. Stuck some scraps on to give some strength then another layer on the opposite side of the batten. Plasterboard sandwich. |
#7
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
sm_jamieson wrote:
On 21 Mar, 17:37, "The Medway Handyman" wrote: Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the place round here. Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. -- Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 Any clues as to the wobbly wall's construction ? Simon. Not Dave answering, but I would suspect something along the lines of Paramount Partitioning - plasterboard/egg-crate/plasterboard and all held together by something like 35mm square studding at the sides, top and bottom. Old fashioned stuff really for todays modern construction. BRG |
#8
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message ... Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the place round here. Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 Sounds like plasterboard laminating to me, did some myself about 20 years ago and hated it. Flimsy battens about 20mm or so at floor & ceilng lines with intermediate studs, board one side with 12.5mm plasterboard using nails ( just about wrecking it already ), then a layer of plank (19mm plasterboard) on the other side fixed with sloppy drywall adhesive, complete with rough cutouts for sockets, cables and other services, this is then followed by another layer of 12.5mm board using the adhesive. Quite solid once it's gone off but I could never make any money doing it and it seemed a very complicated way of building a wall ! I'd be very concerned if they are allowed to build walls such as this with all the new regulations in force today. Franko. |
#9
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
"GT" wrote
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the place round here. Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. It sounds like the screw you used to hold the clock was not the correct type. It should be one with a round head and flat underside so that it fits in the slot. The clock shouldn't move if fitted correctly. If the fixing on the clock was faulty I would be getting in touch with the manufacturer. I'm fully aware of what screw to use thank you. I used the type you describe, the pan head that comes as standard with the easi drive fixing. Which builder was it that put a house up with a wall so thin it moved if hit with a screwdriver? It wouldn't pass a building inspection in the condition you describe. Well, it was signed off. All the small internal walls moved slightly. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#10
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
John wrote:
"GT" wrote in message ... "The Medway Handyman" wrote in message ... Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the place round here. Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 It sounds like the screw you used to hold the clock was not the correct type. It should be one with a round head and flat underside so that it fits in the slot. The clock shouldn't move if fitted correctly. If the fixing on the clock was faulty I would be getting in touch with the manufacturer. Which builder was it that put a house up with a wall so thin it moved if hit with a screwdriver? It wouldn't pass a building inspection in the condition you describe. Which company supplied the bathroom suite? I have never known a toilet seat lid to crack or break unless a person is extremely obese or they have "landed" on it, or dropped tools on it. If all houses are built in such an unacceptable way you should name the builder so we can all avoid them in future. The upstairs walls of my 20 year old house are just plasterboard. The builder fitted a batten along the ceiling and one on the floor and then erected a plasterboard wall. Stuck some scraps on to give some strength then another layer on the opposite side of the batten. Plasterboard sandwich. That sounds like it. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#11
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
On 21 Mar, 19:32, "BRG" wrote:
sm_jamieson wrote: On 21 Mar, 17:37, "The Medway Handyman" wrote: Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the place round here. Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. -- Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 Any clues as to the wobbly wall's construction ? Simon. Not Dave answering, but I would suspect something along the lines of Paramount Partitioning - plasterboard/egg-crate/plasterboard and all held together by something like 35mm square studding at the sides, top and bottom. Old fashioned stuff really for todays modern construction. BRG I thought there were regs for sound insulation between rooms now. Surely these pathetic walls would not pass ! Simon. |
#12
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
... Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the place round here. Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 I was visiting my sister-in-law last year in Wem, Shropshire. They've just moved into a new-build. I had some minor DIY to do, messing about with sockets etc. ( In the heathen part-p lands south of the border, no less :-) ) All the non-structural internal partitions were constructed like this: The internal 'framing' was metal ( I use the term 'metal' loosely, tinfoil might be a better description. ) strips, along the roof and floor, and uprights spaced alarmingly far apart ( well over 600mm, closer to 1000mm ). No dwangs or noggins or whatever local term you like between the uprights. Plasterboard on each side, attached like sails to this sparse tinfoil chassis. Total thickness around 3". This seems to be identical to the internal partitioning we have in some portakabins at our work. I'd be able to walk through it, if a took a determined stride towards it. You daren't lean against it. There's no way on earth to mount anything heavy on these walls ( cupboards, plasma TV etc ). You'd need to pull them down and re-build with a decent timber frame. The structural partitions were brickwork with plasterboard glued on to it ( 'dot-and-daub, it may be called? ). Seems to be the modern ( cheap ) way. -- Ron |
#13
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
Sounds like plasterboard laminating to me, did some myself about 20 years ago and hated it. Flimsy battens about 20mm or so at floor & ceilng lines with intermediate studs, board one side with 12.5mm plasterboard using nails ( just about wrecking it already ), then a layer of plank (19mm plasterboard) on the other side fixed with sloppy drywall adhesive, complete with rough cutouts for sockets, cables and other services, this is then followed by another layer of 12.5mm board using the adhesive. Quite solid once it's gone off but I could never make any money doing it and it seemed a very complicated way of building a wall ! I'd be very concerned if they are allowed to build walls such as this with all the new regulations in force today. Franko. That sounds about right. Good flat walls - space saving - but poor sound insulation. -- -- John |
#14
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
HI All
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:38:48 -0000, "Ron Lowe" ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote: "The Medway Handyman" wrote in message m... Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the place round here. Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 I was visiting my sister-in-law last year in Wem, Shropshire. They've just moved into a new-build. I had some minor DIY to do, messing about with sockets etc. ( In the heathen part-p lands south of the border, no less :-) ) All the non-structural internal partitions were constructed like this: The internal 'framing' was metal ( I use the term 'metal' loosely, tinfoil might be a better description. ) strips, along the roof and floor, and uprights spaced alarmingly far apart ( well over 600mm, closer to 1000mm ). No dwangs or noggins or whatever local term you like between the uprights. Plasterboard on each side, attached like sails to this sparse tinfoil chassis. Total thickness around 3". This seems to be identical to the internal partitioning we have in some portakabins at our work. I'd be able to walk through it, if a took a determined stride towards it. You daren't lean against it. There's no way on earth to mount anything heavy on these walls ( cupboards, plasma TV etc ). You'd need to pull them down and re-build with a decent timber frame. The structural partitions were brickwork with plasterboard glued on to it ( 'dot-and-daub, it may be called? ). Seems to be the modern ( cheap ) way. When I worked for British Gypsum (the plaster & plasterboard people) back in the late '70s - they were busily promoting all sorts of weird & wonderful partitioning systems - including the Paramount (eggbox / plasterboard sandwich), the metal-framing shceme that you describe above (though I seem to recall that the verticals should be at 600mm centres - as in 1/2 a plasterboard's width), and the laminated scheme which was plasterboard glued to plasterboard. However, I think that they were promoting these as _temporary_ solutions - particularly in places like offices & factories - where flexible layouts were the key. One of the selling points of the Paramount systems was that you could actually 'demount' (!) the whole wall and re-erect it in a different location - when you redesign the office layout. I don't remember that these schemes were ever intended for long-term, residential use - as someone rightly said - there's no real strength in them - and, without putting in a lot of effort, their sound insulation isn't brilliant. Sounds like cheap & shoddy housebuilding, to me ! Adrian |
#15
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
"Adrian" wrote in message ... HI All On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:38:48 -0000, "Ron Lowe" ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote: "The Medway Handyman" wrote in message om... Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the place round here. Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 I was visiting my sister-in-law last year in Wem, Shropshire. They've just moved into a new-build. I had some minor DIY to do, messing about with sockets etc. ( In the heathen part-p lands south of the border, no less :-) ) All the non-structural internal partitions were constructed like this: The internal 'framing' was metal ( I use the term 'metal' loosely, tinfoil might be a better description. ) strips, along the roof and floor, and uprights spaced alarmingly far apart ( well over 600mm, closer to 1000mm ). No dwangs or noggins or whatever local term you like between the uprights. Plasterboard on each side, attached like sails to this sparse tinfoil chassis. Total thickness around 3". This seems to be identical to the internal partitioning we have in some portakabins at our work. I'd be able to walk through it, if a took a determined stride towards it. You daren't lean against it. There's no way on earth to mount anything heavy on these walls ( cupboards, plasma TV etc ). You'd need to pull them down and re-build with a decent timber frame. The structural partitions were brickwork with plasterboard glued on to it ( 'dot-and-daub, it may be called? ). Seems to be the modern ( cheap ) way. When I worked for British Gypsum (the plaster & plasterboard people) back in the late '70s - they were busily promoting all sorts of weird & wonderful partitioning systems - including the Paramount (eggbox / plasterboard sandwich), the metal-framing shceme that you describe above (though I seem to recall that the verticals should be at 600mm centres - as in 1/2 a plasterboard's width), and the laminated scheme which was plasterboard glued to plasterboard. However, I think that they were promoting these as _temporary_ solutions - particularly in places like offices & factories - where flexible layouts were the key. One of the selling points of the Paramount systems was that you could actually 'demount' (!) the whole wall and re-erect it in a different location - when you redesign the office layout. I don't remember that these schemes were ever intended for long-term, residential use - as someone rightly said - there's no real strength in them - and, without putting in a lot of effort, their sound insulation isn't brilliant. Sounds like cheap & shoddy housebuilding, to me ! Adrian My 46 year old bungalow (Trusteel) is dry lined with paramount partition (egg tray and plasterboard type ) plaster skimmed each side,cheap at the time though very solid and wearing well, all we could afford at the time ,£1800, |
#16
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:12:56 -0000, a particular chimpanzee, "GT"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced: Which builder was it that put a house up with a wall so thin it moved if hit with a screwdriver? It wouldn't pass a building inspection in the condition you describe. The only Building Regulations requirement for a non-loadbearing wall is airborne sound insulation. One layer of 12mm p/bd each side and 25mm mineral fibre between the studs will suffice. The studs may be 75mm timber or 45mm metal. There's no requirements for robustness or impact resistance. -- Hugo Nebula "If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this, just how far from the pack have you strayed?" |
#17
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
Hugo Nebula wrote:
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:12:56 -0000, a particular chimpanzee, "GT" randomly hit the keyboard and produced: Which builder was it that put a house up with a wall so thin it moved if hit with a screwdriver? It wouldn't pass a building inspection in the condition you describe. The only Building Regulations requirement for a non-loadbearing wall is airborne sound insulation. One layer of 12mm p/bd each side and 25mm mineral fibre between the studs will suffice. The studs may be 75mm timber or 45mm metal. There's no requirements for robustness or impact resistance. Thanks for that. I reckon it must have been 75mm timber as the overall thickness seemed about 100mm. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#18
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message ... .... Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. There are two British Standards for WC lids. Only one includes the requirement to support an externally applied weight. Colin Bignell |
#19
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ... ... Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. There are two British Standards for WC lids. Only one includes the requirement to support an externally applied weight. Oh. I certainly didn't know that. I'm not touching another one thats for sure! -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#20
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
"Ron Lowe" ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote in message ... "The Medway Handyman" wrote in message ... Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the place round here. Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 I was visiting my sister-in-law last year in Wem, Shropshire. They've just moved into a new-build. I had some minor DIY to do, messing about with sockets etc. ( In the heathen part-p lands south of the border, no less :-) ) All the non-structural internal partitions were constructed like this: The internal 'framing' was metal ( I use the term 'metal' loosely, tinfoil might be a better description. ) strips, along the roof and floor, and uprights spaced alarmingly far apart ( well over 600mm, closer to 1000mm ). No dwangs or noggins or whatever local term you like between the uprights. Plasterboard on each side, attached like sails to this sparse tinfoil chassis. Total thickness around 3". 1) Was there a skim of plaster on the boards? 2) Was there sound proofing inside the wall? tim |
#21
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
"Hugo Nebula" abuse@localhost wrote in message ... On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:12:56 -0000, a particular chimpanzee, "GT" randomly hit the keyboard and produced: Which builder was it that put a house up with a wall so thin it moved if hit with a screwdriver? It wouldn't pass a building inspection in the condition you describe. The only Building Regulations requirement for a non-loadbearing wall is airborne sound insulation. One layer of 12mm p/bd each side and 25mm mineral fibre between the studs will suffice. The studs may be 75mm timber or 45mm metal. There's no requirements for robustness or impact resistance. Don't they have to be a 1 hour fire break as well. I was told by the BI that a single plaster board was not enough for this. tim |
#22
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
sm_jamieson wrote:
On 21 Mar, 19:32, "BRG" wrote: sm_jamieson wrote: On 21 Mar, 17:37, "The Medway Handyman" wrote: Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the place round here. Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8. -- Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 Any clues as to the wobbly wall's construction ? Simon. Not Dave answering, but I would suspect something along the lines of Paramount Partitioning - plasterboard/egg-crate/plasterboard and all held together by something like 35mm square studding at the sides, top and bottom. Old fashioned stuff really for todays modern construction. BRG I thought there were regs for sound insulation between rooms now. Surely these pathetic walls would not pass ! Simon. Actually they insulate quite well. |
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
tim (not at home) wrote:
"Hugo Nebula" abuse@localhost wrote in message ... On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:12:56 -0000, a particular chimpanzee, "GT" randomly hit the keyboard and produced: Which builder was it that put a house up with a wall so thin it moved if hit with a screwdriver? It wouldn't pass a building inspection in the condition you describe. The only Building Regulations requirement for a non-loadbearing wall is airborne sound insulation. One layer of 12mm p/bd each side and 25mm mineral fibre between the studs will suffice. The studs may be 75mm timber or 45mm metal. There's no requirements for robustness or impact resistance. Don't they have to be a 1 hour fire break as well. I was told by the BI that a single plaster board was not enough for this. tim I dont think firebreak is needed on all walls..just some. |
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
Owain wrote:
BRG wrote: Not Dave answering, but I would suspect something along the lines of Paramount Partitioning - plasterboard/egg-crate/plasterboard and all held together by something like 35mm square studding at the sides, top and bottom. It sounds like something they'd use just after the second World War when building materials were in short supply. Owain Our 1965 dormer bungalow has it for all non-loadbearing walls. John |
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I'm fully aware of what screw to use thank you. I used the type you describe, the pan head that comes as standard with the easi drive fixing. Just being a touch picky here, but a pan head screw can also be named a cheese headed screw. Just imagine either a full round of cheese, or a kitchen pan upside down and both have a screwdriver slot in the top, then you have a pan head, or a cheese head screw depending on where you come from. Round headed screws are as was described, round headed. :-) Dave |
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
Dave wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote: I'm fully aware of what screw to use thank you. I used the type you describe, the pan head that comes as standard with the easi drive fixing. Just being a touch picky here, but a pan head screw can also be named a cheese headed screw. Just imagine either a full round of cheese, or a kitchen pan upside down and both have a screwdriver slot in the top, then you have a pan head, or a cheese head screw depending on where you come from. Round headed screws are as was described, round headed. :-) Not quite - according to that arbiter of all disgreements and fount of all knowledge - wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#Shapes_of_screw_head The picture there shows a panhead screw as having a chamfered outer edge. However I freely acknowledge that the naming might have (even probably has) a regional element. -- Rod Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious onset. Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed. www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org |
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
Dave wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote: I'm fully aware of what screw to use thank you. I used the type you describe, the pan head that comes as standard with the easi drive fixing. Just being a touch picky here, but a pan head screw can also be named a cheese headed screw. No. DEFINITLY not. Cheese head is a square section top, Hex is a square section hex top, pan head is like an inverted frying pan and round head is wok shaped IYSWIM. Just imagine either a full round of cheese, or a kitchen pan upside down and both have a screwdriver slot in the top, then you have a pan head, or a cheese head screw depending on where you come from. Round headed screws are as was described, round headed. :-) Dave Dunno where you picked up that ******** mate. |
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:44:14 UTC, Dave wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote: I'm fully aware of what screw to use thank you. I used the type you describe, the pan head that comes as standard with the easi drive fixing. Just being a touch picky here, but a pan head screw can also be named a cheese headed screw. Just imagine either a full round of cheese, or a kitchen pan upside down and both have a screwdriver slot in the top, then you have a pan head, or a cheese head screw depending on where you come from. Sorry, but no. Cheese head screws have straight sides, pan head screws don't. For example, see: http://www.pts-uk.com/prodrng.htm -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
On 23 Mar, 19:31, "Bob Eager" wrote:
Sorry, but no. Cheese head screws have straight sides, pan head screws don't. For example, see: You learn something new every year. I thought a cheese-head screw was one whose slot gave way when you tried to turn it. Maybe I'm thinking of bolt heads on Japanese motorcycles. Regards Richard (confused) |
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
geraldthehamster wrote:
On 23 Mar, 19:31, "Bob Eager" wrote: Sorry, but no. Cheese head screws have straight sides, pan head screws don't. For example, see: You learn something new every year. I thought a cheese-head screw was one whose slot gave way when you tried to turn it. Maybe I'm thinking of bolt heads on Japanese motorcycles. Regards Richard (confused) Grommet is a cheese head. Or is it wallace? |
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:44:14 UTC, Dave wrote: The Medway Handyman wrote: I'm fully aware of what screw to use thank you. I used the type you describe, the pan head that comes as standard with the easi drive fixing. Just being a touch picky here, but a pan head screw can also be named a cheese headed screw. Just imagine either a full round of cheese, or a kitchen pan upside down and both have a screwdriver slot in the top, then you have a pan head, or a cheese head screw depending on where you come from. Sorry, but no. Cheese head screws have straight sides, pan head screws don't. For example, see: http://www.pts-uk.com/prodrng.htm Yes. :-) Probably a better description that I tried and failed to convey. An earlier link posted from wiki tried to explain the difference between a bolt and a screw. Just talking from an engineering point of view, I was always taught that a bolt had a plain shank between the threads and the head and that a screw was threaded all the way up to the head, minus a thread. The reason I say this, is that I have spent over 25 years in the aerospace industry and France, Italy and Germany all got together to create a standard that could be applied. Bolts were given one common number, followed by info that described the thread diam and length of the plain shank and screws were given another, followed again by the same sort of info, but was the total length of the threaded portion and were then broken down into minute detail in the standards books. Dave |
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:59:37 +0000, Dave
wrote: Just talking from an engineering point of view, I was always taught that a bolt had a plain shank between the threads and the head and that a screw was threaded all the way up to the head, minus a thread. AIUI, a bolt is intended to be held still while a nut is tightened on to it (a bit like a stud), whereas a screw is intended to be rotated into the nut (or casting, or whatever). -- Frank Erskine |
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Frank Erskine saying something like: On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:59:37 +0000, Dave wrote: Just talking from an engineering point of view, I was always taught that a bolt had a plain shank between the threads and the head and that a screw was threaded all the way up to the head, minus a thread. AIUI, a bolt is intended to be held still while a nut is tightened on to it (a bit like a stud), whereas a screw is intended to be rotated into the nut (or casting, or whatever). Most importantly, a properly fitted bolt is used where shear loads are present (although dowels should be present also) whereas setscrews are just for securing components like covers, etc. -- Dave |
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
Dave wrote:
An earlier link posted from wiki tried to explain the difference between a bolt and a screw. Just talking from an engineering point of view, I was always taught that a bolt had a plain shank between the threads and the head and that a screw was threaded all the way up to the head, minus a thread. The reason I say this, is that I have spent over 25 years in the aerospace industry and France, Italy and Germany all got together to create a standard that could be applied. Bolts were given one common number, followed by info that described the thread diam and length of the plain shank and screws were given another, followed again by the same sort of info, but was the total length of the threaded portion and were then broken down into minute detail in the standards books. I'm with you on this one. However, in the same way that the words uninterested and disinterested have been misunderstood and misused, to the extent that they can no longer be used with any certainty of communicating one's intent, knowing what is right no longer seems to be enough. Chris -- Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh. |
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
Frank Erskine wrote:
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:59:37 +0000, Dave wrote: Just talking from an engineering point of view, I was always taught that a bolt had a plain shank between the threads and the head and that a screw was threaded all the way up to the head, minus a thread. AIUI, a bolt is intended to be held still while a nut is tightened on to it (a bit like a stud), whereas a screw is intended to be rotated into the nut (or casting, or whatever). So I can follow this to the concept of a ship's propellor being called a screw. But what about things like lead screws? (Leave the magazine out of it... :-)) -- Rod Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious onset. Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed. www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org |
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
Rod wrote:
Frank Erskine wrote: On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:59:37 +0000, Dave wrote: Just talking from an engineering point of view, I was always taught that a bolt had a plain shank between the threads and the head and that a screw was threaded all the way up to the head, minus a thread. AIUI, a bolt is intended to be held still while a nut is tightened on to it (a bit like a stud), whereas a screw is intended to be rotated into the nut (or casting, or whatever). So I can follow this to the concept of a ship's propellor being called a screw. But what about things like lead screws? (Leave the magazine out of it... :-)) I think the bolt word comes from smooth sliding shafts, and the screw from rotating spirals.. The problem comes when its both smooth and threaded. |
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Frank Erskine wrote:
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:59:37 +0000, Dave wrote: Just talking from an engineering point of view, I was always taught that a bolt had a plain shank between the threads and the head and that a screw was threaded all the way up to the head, minus a thread. AIUI, a bolt is intended to be held still while a nut is tightened on to it (a bit like a stud), whereas a screw is intended to be rotated into the nut (or casting, or whatever). In an aircraft bolts (as I defined earlier) are used in sheer conditions, so that there are no thread in the interface where the sheer takes place, so as to maximize the strength of the shank. I doubt that we will ever resolve this, because of the way engineers have been brought up. Dave |
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
In article ,
Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost writes: The only Building Regulations requirement for a non-loadbearing wall is airborne sound insulation. One layer of 12mm p/bd each side and 25mm mineral fibre between the studs will suffice. The studs may be 75mm timber or 45mm metal. There's no requirements for robustness or impact resistance. I'm amazed 25mm mineral fibre would make any difference. Is this just the loft insulation type stuff, or something much denser? -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
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Little boxes made of ticky tacky
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article , Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost writes: The only Building Regulations requirement for a non-loadbearing wall is airborne sound insulation. One layer of 12mm p/bd each side and 25mm mineral fibre between the studs will suffice. The studs may be 75mm timber or 45mm metal. There's no requirements for robustness or impact resistance. I'm amazed 25mm mineral fibre would make any difference. Is this just the loft insulation type stuff, or something much denser? Probably denser. The two sheets of plasterboard will do most of the sound deadening: you normally then back that up with somethng to dampen panel resonance that makes things sound 'boomy' |
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