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Default Plumbing problem

Hi, I have an urgent plumbing problem. The cold tap on my bathroom
started leaking so I decided it might be better to replace it as it is
very old. Put new tap on but there was a leak from the old fitting
under the basin. I decided to replace the fitting, so i measured it
and it seemed like 13mm. I got replacement 15mm and 10mm fittings as
there didn't seem to be 13mm size, but these don't fit. To make
matters worse the stopcock doesn't turn all the way off now and the
pipe is leaking from the joint even with the water off. The house has
various victorian features and still has lengths of lead pipe in
various places, including to the basin where it has the copper pipe
soldered in to go to the tap. I tried to get a plumber but two decided
it was too far to go for the little bit of work involved and a third
can't get here until wednesday.

any ideas how to fix this or how to stop up the pipe?

ST
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Default Plumbing problem

On 18 Feb, 15:07, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:34:51 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Put new tap on but there was a leak from the old fitting under the
basin. I decided to replace the fitting, so i measured it and it seemed
like 13mm. I got replacement 15mm and 10mm fittings as there didn't seem
to be 13mm size, but these don't fit.


I'm not quite following what you mean by "fitting". Pictures are very
useful...


Sorry no digital camera. I'll see if I can get a picture from my
mobile on to the computer.


There is lead pipe with some copper pipe soldered into the end of it.
the copper pipe has a ridge all the way round it and something like a
compression fitting/nut at the end. I assume the nut/fitting was slid
on before the copper pipe was soldered in. the nut/fitting then screws
into the bottom of the tap.


The house has various victorian features and still has lengths of lead
pipe in various places, including to the basin where it has the copper
pipe soldered in to go to the tap.


You may have imperial 1/2" pipe rather than modern metric 15mm but they
are normally close enough in outside diameter that it doesn't matter for
compression or sweated joints. 3/4" v 22mm is another matter though...

any ideas how to fix this or how to stop up the pipe?


Stop up the pipe with a suitably size push fit stop end. Check you get one
that can be released easily... You should be able to turn the water off at
the street stopcock on/near the boundary of your property.


15mm and 10mm don't fit.

I should be able to but the stop cock is under a van and the neighbour
isn't in.

I have a blowtorch but have never soldered. would it be easy enough to
learn by taking out the copper pipe and putting 15mm pipe in?

--
Cheers
Dave.


regards

ST
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Default Plumbing problem

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:41:58 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On 18 Feb, 15:07, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:34:51 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Put new tap on but there was a leak from the old fitting under the
basin. I decided to replace the fitting, so i measured it and it seemed
like 13mm. I got replacement 15mm and 10mm fittings as there didn't seem
to be 13mm size, but these don't fit.


I'm not quite following what you mean by "fitting". Pictures are very
useful...


Sorry no digital camera. I'll see if I can get a picture from my
mobile on to the computer.


There is lead pipe with some copper pipe soldered into the end of it.
the copper pipe has a ridge all the way round it and something like a
compression fitting/nut at the end. I assume the nut/fitting was slid
on before the copper pipe was soldered in. the nut/fitting then screws
into the bottom of the tap.


Not sure what you mean by " a ridge all the way round" .I thought at
first you meant an olive which is used in compression fittings but not
in tap connectors .What I'd expect to see would be one of these or
similar
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/18612/...onnectors-15mm
or this
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/35800/...n-Fitting-15mm

Other than getting the lead stripped out ( not necessary really if the
water isn't being drunk) you should get the leaking stop tap removed
and another put in it's place ...like this one
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/67670/...0VALVE-_-67670



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Default Plumbing problem

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:41:58 -0800, st01495 wrote:

On 18 Feb, 15:07, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:34:51 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Put new tap on but there was a leak from the old fitting under the
basin. I decided to replace the fitting, so i measured it and it
seemed like 13mm. I got replacement 15mm and 10mm fittings as there
didn't seem to be 13mm size, but these don't fit.


I'm not quite following what you mean by "fitting". Pictures are very
useful...


Sorry no digital camera. I'll see if I can get a picture from my mobile
on to the computer.


There is lead pipe with some copper pipe soldered into the end of it.
the copper pipe has a ridge all the way round it and something like a
compression fitting/nut at the end. I assume the nut/fitting was slid on
before the copper pipe was soldered in. the nut/fitting then screws into
the bottom of the tap.


The house has various victorian features and still has lengths of
lead pipe in various places, including to the basin where it has the
copper pipe soldered in to go to the tap.


You may have imperial 1/2" pipe rather than modern metric 15mm but they
are normally close enough in outside diameter that it doesn't matter
for compression or sweated joints. 3/4" v 22mm is another matter
though...

any ideas how to fix this or how to stop up the pipe?


Stop up the pipe with a suitably size push fit stop end. Check you get
one that can be released easily... You should be able to turn the water
off at the street stopcock on/near the boundary of your property.


15mm and 10mm don't fit.

I should be able to but the stop cock is under a van and the neighbour
isn't in.

I have a blowtorch but have never soldered. would it be easy enough to
learn by taking out the copper pipe and putting 15mm pipe in?

--
Cheers
Dave.


regards

ST


OK I've a pretty fair idea what bits you have.

You have a lead pipe (probably about 22mm OD being 7lb/0.5" Pb).
Into this was soldered a 1/2" tap connector (likely brass) the back nut
was rendered captive with this arrangement.


The new tap(s) also have 1/2" BSP threaded section for the water
connection. This about 22mm OD. The hole in the middle of the taps is
about 1/2". The seal is made by the flange in the tap connector against
the end of the threaded pipe under the tap, a fibre washer makes this a
good joint. The OD of the old tap connector was about 13mm as you stated
- nothing can be done with this half a fitting.

All that was needed was a new fibre washer.

If you cut off (half) the tap connector from the lead pipe you are now
going to need:
1) A 1/2" 7lb "Lead-lok" fitting. £5-£10 from a PM or Bigger shed.
2) A small length of 15mm Copper pipe.
3) A normal 1/2" tap connector. (Some have service valves built in in
which case go for it).

You cut off all the fitting from the end of the lead and add a lead lok.
you then join the tap to the lead lok with 15mm pipe and a tap connector
and a new fibre washer.

A bit of liquid PTFE resin or silicone grease on the olives and washer
will help loads.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html



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Default Plumbing problem

On 18 Feb, 16:18, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:41:58 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On 18 Feb, 15:07, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:34:51 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Put new tap on but there was a leak from the old fitting under the
basin. I decided to replace the fitting, so i measured it and it seemed
like 13mm. I got replacement 15mm and 10mm fittings as there didn't seem
to be 13mm size, but these don't fit.


I'm not quite following what you mean by "fitting". Pictures are very
useful...


Sorry no digital camera. I'll see if I can get a picture from my
mobile on to the computer.


There is lead pipe with some copper pipe soldered into the end of it.
the copper pipe has a ridge all the way round it and something like a
compression fitting/nut at the end. I assume the nut/fitting was slid
on before the copper pipe was soldered in. the nut/fitting then screws
into the bottom of the tap.


Not sure what you mean by " a ridge all the way round" .I thought at
first you meant an olive which is used in compression fittings but not
in tap connectors .What I'd expect to see would be one of these or
similarhttp://www.screwfix.com/prods/18612/Plumbing/End-Feed-Fittings/End-Fe...


That looks what I've got. There is 5mm from the end of the pipe to the
ridge. The ridge is 1.5mm high and 1.5 thick. the ridge is bit like
someone cut a ring from a coin and put it around the pipe, seems solid
not soldered. The ridge stops the nut/connector from coming off the
pipe and I guess acted a bit like an olive?

The problem is the pipe doesn't seem to be 15mm or 10mm, as nether
stop end will fit it, which is still my big problem.


or thishttp://www.screwfix.com/prods/35800/Plumbing/Compression-Fittings/Tap...

Other than getting the lead stripped out ( not necessary really if the
water isn't being drunk) you should get the leaking stop tap removed
and another put in it's place ...like this onehttp://www.screwfix.com/prods/67670/Plumbing/Brassware/Isolating-Valv...


I've managed to get the water off outside but the plumber informs me
he can't get here until Thursday now.
Luckily, or unluckily, there is still an outside toilet and sink in an
outhouse, but it's water doesn't seem to be off, so I'm guessing there
is another stopcock for that somewhere.


thanks

ST
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Default Plumbing problem

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:18:01 +0000, wrote:

There is lead pipe with some copper pipe soldered into the end of it.
the copper pipe has a ridge all the way round it and something like a
compression fitting/nut at the end. I assume the nut/fitting was slid
on before the copper pipe was soldered in. the nut/fitting then screws
into the bottom of the tap.


Not sure what you mean by " a ridge all the way round" .I thought at
first you meant an olive which is used in compression fittings but not
in tap connectors .What I'd expect to see would be one of these or
similar

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/18612

I think that is what the OP has with the end sweated into the lead pipe.
That should be standard thread onto the bottom of the tap. What is needed
to stop that connection leaking is a fibre washer that slips over the end
of the pipe and rests on the ridge, doing up the nut pushes it against the
bottom of the tap opening. You only need to gently nip the washer into
place, maybe a 1/4 turn past finger tight. When the fibre washer gets wet
it expands to make the seal. Before fitting the fibre washer make sure
there are no remnants of the previous one stuck to the pipe or bottom of
the tap.

Working with lead pipe is a skill that needs to be learnt, I would not
recommend taking a blow lamp to this just yet.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Posts: 5
Default Plumbing problem

On 18 Feb, 17:43, Ed Sirett wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:41:58 -0800, st01495 wrote:
On 18 Feb, 15:07, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:34:51 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Put new tap on but there was a leak from the old fitting under the
basin. I decided to replace the fitting, so i measured it and it
seemed like 13mm. I got replacement 15mm and 10mm fittings as there
didn't seem to be 13mm size, but these don't fit.


I'm not quite following what you mean by "fitting". Pictures are very
useful...


Sorry no digital camera. I'll see if I can get a picture from my mobile
on to the computer.


There is lead pipe with some copper pipe soldered into the end of it.
the copper pipe has a ridge all the way round it and something like a
compression fitting/nut at the end. I assume the nut/fitting was slid on
before the copper pipe was soldered in. the nut/fitting then screws into
the bottom of the tap.


The house has various victorian features and still has lengths of
lead pipe in various places, including to the basin where it has the
copper pipe soldered in to go to the tap.


You may have imperial 1/2" pipe rather than modern metric 15mm but they
are normally close enough in outside diameter that it doesn't matter
for compression or sweated joints. 3/4" v 22mm is another matter
though...


any ideas how to fix this or how to stop up the pipe?


Stop up the pipe with a suitably size push fit stop end. Check you get
one that can be released easily... You should be able to turn the water
off at the street stopcock on/near the boundary of your property.


15mm and 10mm don't fit.


I should be able to but the stop cock is under a van and the neighbour
isn't in.


I have a blowtorch but have never soldered. would it be easy enough to
learn by taking out the copper pipe and putting 15mm pipe in?


--
Cheers
Dave.


regards


ST


OK I've a pretty fair idea what bits you have.

You have a lead pipe (probably about 22mm OD being 7lb/0.5" Pb).
Into this was soldered a 1/2" tap connector (likely brass) the back nut
was rendered captive with this arrangement.

The new tap(s) also have 1/2" BSP threaded section for the water
connection. This about 22mm OD. The hole in the middle of the taps is
about 1/2". The seal is made by the flange in the tap connector against
the end of the threaded pipe *under the tap, a fibre washer makes this a
good joint. The OD of the old tap connector was about 13mm as you stated
- nothing can be done with this half a fitting.

All that was needed was a new fibre washer.


This sounds exactly what I had. There was no fibre washer, I suppose
it may have disintegrated. And flange is the correct word, not a
ridge.

If you cut off (half) the tap connector from *the lead pipe you are now
going to need:
1) A 1/2" 7lb "Lead-lok" fitting. 5-10 from a PM or Bigger shed.
2) A small length of 15mm Copper pipe.
3) A normal 1/2" tap connector. (Some have service valves built in in
which case go for it). *

You cut off all the fitting from the end of the lead and add a lead lok.
you then join the tap to the lead lok with 15mm pipe and a tap connector
and a new fibre washer.

A bit of liquid PTFE resin or silicone grease on the olives and washer
will help loads.


Ok, that sounds like something I can attempt.Can I bend the lead pipe
away from the basin to make cutting the pipe easier and fitting
everything?


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is athttp://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ *http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQhttp://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQhttp://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html


thanks, your post is really helpful.

ST
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