Been tiling the bathroom with large (450 x 300mm) porcelain tiles. Much
of it was tiled before so removing the old didn't leave a perfect surface.
However...

Did the one wall which is old (100 years) plaster on brick. Some of the
skim came off which I made good before tiling. Fine. Looks great. Moved on
to another which is plasterboard and skimmed and in excellent condition -
this one was wallpapered. Did about half and ran out of adhesive. Which
was Homebase 'waterproof' adhesive and grout. Bought at the same time as
the tiles.

Now my closest shed is Wicks and they are rather cheaper than Homebase so
bought some from them. And this morning while finishing off that wall all
the tiles fixed with this stuff yesterday fell off. Quite a shock when the
first one went. The adhesive remained stuck to the tiles and you could see
it had been flattened where it contacted the wall but had come off clean
as a whistle from the plaster. The ones stuck with the Homebase stuff are
absolutely solid on the same wall.

I'm obviously going to get the Homebase stuff again - but what's wrong
with the Wicks product? Stored past its best or just no good? And do I
just take it back and complain?

Luckily not one tile was damaged by falling 6 ft or so.

--
*Middle age is when work is a lot less fun - and fun a lot more work.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 30 Jan, 11:20, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
Been tiling the bathroom with large (450 x 300mm) porcelain tiles. Much
of it was tiled before so removing the old didn't leave a perfect surface.
However...

Did the one wall which is old (100 years) plaster on brick. Some of the
skim came off which I made good before tiling. Fine. Looks great. Moved on
to another which is plasterboard and skimmed and in excellent condition -
this one was wallpapered. Did about half and ran out of adhesive. Which
was Homebase 'waterproof' adhesive and grout. Bought at the same time as
the tiles.

Now my closest shed is Wicks and they are rather cheaper than Homebase so
bought some from them. And this morning while finishing off that wall all
the tiles fixed with this stuff yesterday fell off. Quite a shock when the
first one went. The adhesive remained stuck to the tiles and you could see
it had been flattened where it contacted the wall but had come off clean
as a whistle from the plaster. The ones stuck with the Homebase stuff are
absolutely solid on the same wall.

I'm obviously going to get the Homebase stuff again - but what's wrong
with the Wicks product? Stored past its best or just no good? And do I
just take it back and complain?

Luckily not one tile was damaged by falling 6 ft or so.

--
*Middle age is when work is a lot less fun - and fun a lot more work.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


I learned my lesson with Wickes adhesives when laying a 6m x 3.5m
slate floor. The adhesive didn't go off. Now I use BAL adhesives and
grouts and would simply refuse to use anything else. I'm a particular
fan of their flexible wide joint grout. I use it instead of silicone
in places.

T

wrote:
On 30 Jan, 11:20, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
Been tiling the bathroom with large (450 x 300mm) porcelain tiles. Much
of it was tiled before so removing the old didn't leave a perfect surface.
However...

Did the one wall which is old (100 years) plaster on brick. Some of the
skim came off which I made good before tiling. Fine. Looks great. Moved on
to another which is plasterboard and skimmed and in excellent condition -
this one was wallpapered. Did about half and ran out of adhesive. Which
was Homebase 'waterproof' adhesive and grout. Bought at the same time as
the tiles.

Now my closest shed is Wicks and they are rather cheaper than Homebase so
bought some from them. And this morning while finishing off that wall all
the tiles fixed with this stuff yesterday fell off. Quite a shock when the
first one went. The adhesive remained stuck to the tiles and you could see
it had been flattened where it contacted the wall but had come off clean
as a whistle from the plaster. The ones stuck with the Homebase stuff are
absolutely solid on the same wall.

I'm obviously going to get the Homebase stuff again - but what's wrong
with the Wicks product? Stored past its best or just no good? And do I
just take it back and complain?

Luckily not one tile was damaged by falling 6 ft or so.

--
*Middle age is when work is a lot less fun - and fun a lot more work.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


I learned my lesson with Wickes adhesives when laying a 6m x 3.5m
slate floor. The adhesive didn't go off. Now I use BAL adhesives and
grouts and would simply refuse to use anything else. I'm a particular
fan of their flexible wide joint grout. I use it instead of silicone
in places.

T

I use Ardex adhesives for floors, and Evostik water proof for walls. Bal
for grout.

They may not be the best, but after trying a few others they were the
first ones I came to that actually could be relied upon. Neither are cheap.

I gave up on 'cheap' after many bad experiences.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
wrote:
On 30 Jan, 11:20, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
Been tiling the bathroom with large (450 x 300mm) porcelain tiles. Much
of it was tiled before so removing the old didn't leave a perfect
surface.
However...

Did the one wall which is old (100 years) plaster on brick. Some of the
skim came off which I made good before tiling. Fine. Looks great.
Moved on
to another which is plasterboard and skimmed and in excellent
condition -
this one was wallpapered. Did about half and ran out of adhesive. Which
was Homebase 'waterproof' adhesive and grout. Bought at the same time as
the tiles.

Now my closest shed is Wicks and they are rather cheaper than
Homebase so
bought some from them. And this morning while finishing off that wall
all
the tiles fixed with this stuff yesterday fell off. Quite a shock
when the
first one went. The adhesive remained stuck to the tiles and you
could see
it had been flattened where it contacted the wall but had come off clean
as a whistle from the plaster. The ones stuck with the Homebase stuff
are
absolutely solid on the same wall.

I'm obviously going to get the Homebase stuff again - but what's wrong
with the Wicks product? Stored past its best or just no good? And do I
just take it back and complain?

Luckily not one tile was damaged by falling 6 ft or so.

--
*Middle age is when work is a lot less fun - and fun a lot more work.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


I learned my lesson with Wickes adhesives when laying a 6m x 3.5m
slate floor. The adhesive didn't go off. Now I use BAL adhesives and
grouts and would simply refuse to use anything else. I'm a particular
fan of their flexible wide joint grout. I use it instead of silicone
in places.

T

I use Ardex adhesives for floors, and Evostik water proof for walls. Bal
for grout.

They may not be the best, but after trying a few others they were the
first ones I came to that actually could be relied upon. Neither are cheap.

I gave up on 'cheap' after many bad experiences.



My experience of Wickes ready mixed products is varied. Their plaster
and filler seem to be of the lightweight type, which makes them cheap
and easy to use, but they're not particularly "sticky" IYSWIM. I wonder
if their adhesive is just a variation on their other tub products.
A wall tile should become immovable after about 5 minutes, and you know
the adhesive has bitten. Once that happens I've never had one
subsequently fall off. The Wickes stuff has obviously not been able to
cope with the porosity of the wall, which is a pretty poor show for a
tile adhesive.

Stuart Noble wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
wrote:
On 30 Jan, 11:20, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
Been tiling the bathroom with large (450 x 300mm) porcelain tiles.
Much
of it was tiled before so removing the old didn't leave a perfect
surface.
However...

Did the one wall which is old (100 years) plaster on brick. Some of
the
skim came off which I made good before tiling. Fine. Looks great.
Moved on
to another which is plasterboard and skimmed and in excellent
condition -
this one was wallpapered. Did about half and ran out of adhesive. Which
was Homebase 'waterproof' adhesive and grout. Bought at the same
time as
the tiles.

Now my closest shed is Wicks and they are rather cheaper than
Homebase so
bought some from them. And this morning while finishing off that
wall all
the tiles fixed with this stuff yesterday fell off. Quite a shock
when the
first one went. The adhesive remained stuck to the tiles and you
could see
it had been flattened where it contacted the wall but had come off
clean
as a whistle from the plaster. The ones stuck with the Homebase
stuff are
absolutely solid on the same wall.

I'm obviously going to get the Homebase stuff again - but what's wrong
with the Wicks product? Stored past its best or just no good? And do I
just take it back and complain?

Luckily not one tile was damaged by falling 6 ft or so.

--
*Middle age is when work is a lot less fun - and fun a lot more work.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


I learned my lesson with Wickes adhesives when laying a 6m x 3.5m
slate floor. The adhesive didn't go off. Now I use BAL adhesives and
grouts and would simply refuse to use anything else. I'm a particular
fan of their flexible wide joint grout. I use it instead of silicone
in places.

T

I use Ardex adhesives for floors, and Evostik water proof for walls.
Bal for grout.

They may not be the best, but after trying a few others they were the
first ones I came to that actually could be relied upon. Neither are
cheap.

I gave up on 'cheap' after many bad experiences.



My experience of Wickes ready mixed products is varied. Their plaster
and filler seem to be of the lightweight type, which makes them cheap
and easy to use, but they're not particularly "sticky" IYSWIM. I wonder
if their adhesive is just a variation on their other tub products.
A wall tile should become immovable after about 5 minutes, and you know
the adhesive has bitten. Once that happens I've never had one
subsequently fall off. The Wickes stuff has obviously not been able to
cope with the porosity of the wall, which is a pretty poor show for a
tile adhesive.

Yep. Of course it probably says 'seal wall with PVA first', which then
costs more than a decent adhesive would've in the first place..and takes
twice as long.

In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
My experience of Wickes ready mixed products is varied. Their plaster
and filler seem to be of the lightweight type, which makes them cheap
and easy to use, but they're not particularly "sticky" IYSWIM. I wonder
if their adhesive is just a variation on their other tub products.
A wall tile should become immovable after about 5 minutes, and you know
the adhesive has bitten. Once that happens I've never had one
subsequently fall off. The Wickes stuff has obviously not been able to
cope with the porosity of the wall, which is a pretty poor show for a
tile adhesive.

Well I took the two big tubs back - one obviously unopened - and got my
money back with no hassle. While they were up on the returns counter I
read the instructions which said 'not for porcelain tiles'. ;-) So sneaked
off whistling tunelessly. But the adhesive had stuck ok to the tiles -
just not to the plaster.

--
*Just give me chocolate and nobody gets hurt

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Well I took the two big tubs back - one obviously unopened - and got my
money back with no hassle. While they were up on the returns counter I
read the instructions which said 'not for porcelain tiles'. ;-) So sneaked
off whistling tunelessly. But the adhesive had stuck ok to the tiles -
just not to the plaster.


LOL! I guess that the porcelain tiles had sucked all the moisture out of
the adhesive before the bond with the wall had set.

But on second thoughts isn't porcelain a ceramic which would not absorb
much water?

Either way, thanks for the tip. Been buying a lot of stuff from Wickes
recently but will avoid their tile adhesive and stick, oops, to the
powdered stuff from my local tile merchant.

But on the other hand, their "Trade" Contract Matt Emulsion is the best
paint I have used in a long while :-) I think that I could get away with
telling SWMBO that it took two or three coats of Buttermilk onto white
when it only took one... but I won't ;-)

Steve

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:36:32 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
My experience of Wickes ready mixed products is varied. Their plaster
and filler seem to be of the lightweight type, which makes them cheap
and easy to use, but they're not particularly "sticky" IYSWIM. I wonder
if their adhesive is just a variation on their other tub products.
A wall tile should become immovable after about 5 minutes, and you know
the adhesive has bitten. Once that happens I've never had one
subsequently fall off. The Wickes stuff has obviously not been able to
cope with the porosity of the wall, which is a pretty poor show for a
tile adhesive.

Well I took the two big tubs back - one obviously unopened - and got my
money back with no hassle. While they were up on the returns counter I
read the instructions which said 'not for porcelain tiles'.

Err, so asking a daft question, what sort of tiles would you stick to a
wall using wall tile adhesive if not porcelain?


--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:38:21 +0000 The Wanderer wrote :
Err, so asking a daft question, what sort of tiles would you stick
to a wall using wall tile adhesive if not porcelain?

Regular ceramic ones. AIUI the distinction is that these have an
impervious glaze on a porous body whilst porcelain is totally
impervious. No doubt someone will follow up with a better definition.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

The Natural Philosopher wrote:


My experience of Wickes ready mixed products is varied. Their plaster
and filler seem to be of the lightweight type, which makes them cheap
and easy to use, but they're not particularly "sticky" IYSWIM. I
wonder if their adhesive is just a variation on their other tub
products. A wall tile should become immovable after about 5 minutes, and
you
know the adhesive has bitten. Once that happens I've never had one
subsequently fall off. The Wickes stuff has obviously not been able
to cope with the porosity of the wall, which is a pretty poor show
for a tile adhesive.

Yep. Of course it probably says 'seal wall with PVA first', which then
costs more than a decent adhesive would've in the first place..and
takes twice as long.

Costs more? PVA is cheap as chips & you dilute it before use anyway. Only
take minutes to brush over a wall - OK you have to wait while it dries, but
if you PVA first you get around that.

Might cost a few pennies extra.

I use Wickes tile adhesive all the time & allways PVA first - never had a
problem.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On Jan 30, 3:10*pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Yep. Of course it probably says 'seal wall with PVA first', which then
costs more than a decent adhesive would've in the first place..and takes
twice as long.

OTOH:

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/tiling/
diy_Tiling_Why_not_to_use_pva.htm

cheers,
Pete.

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Yep. Of course it probably says 'seal wall with PVA first', which then
costs more than a decent adhesive would've in the first place..and
takes twice as long.

Costs more? PVA is cheap as chips & you dilute it before use anyway.
Only take minutes to brush over a wall - OK you have to wait while it
dries, but if you PVA first you get around that.

Might cost a few pennies extra.

I use Wickes tile adhesive all the time & allways PVA first - never had
a problem.

Thing is I didn't have a problem with the Homebase stuff. Which was only
slightly more expensive than the Wicks one. To me, worth the extra for not
having to faff about with PVA.

--
*I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Yep. Of course it probably says 'seal wall with PVA first', which then
costs more than a decent adhesive would've in the first place..and
takes twice as long.

Costs more? PVA is cheap as chips & you dilute it before use anyway.
Only take minutes to brush over a wall - OK you have to wait while it
dries, but if you PVA first you get around that.

Might cost a few pennies extra.

I use Wickes tile adhesive all the time & allways PVA first - never had
a problem.

Thing is I didn't have a problem with the Homebase stuff. Which was only
slightly more expensive than the Wicks one. To me, worth the extra for not
having to faff about with PVA.


And it is a lot of faffing about if you dilute it to any kind of uniform
consistency. I used to keep 20 litres diluted in a separate container
until it started going off and stank the place out.

Pete C wrote:
On Jan 30, 3:10 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Yep. Of course it probably says 'seal wall with PVA first', which then
costs more than a decent adhesive would've in the first place..and takes
twice as long.

OTOH:

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/tiling/
diy_Tiling_Why_not_to_use_pva.htm

cheers,
Pete.

Since most adhesives are almost certainly based on pva, I don't buy the
idea that it's somehow incompatible. OTOH I've never found it necessary
to seal before tiling.

On 2008-01-30 11:20:41 +0000, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

Been tiling the bathroom with large (450 x 300mm) porcelain tiles. Much
of it was tiled before so removing the old didn't leave a perfect surface.
However...

Did the one wall which is old (100 years) plaster on brick. Some of the
skim came off which I made good before tiling. Fine. Looks great. Moved on
to another which is plasterboard and skimmed and in excellent condition -
this one was wallpapered. Did about half and ran out of adhesive. Which
was Homebase 'waterproof' adhesive and grout. Bought at the same time as
the tiles.

Now my closest shed is Wicks and they are rather cheaper than Homebase so
bought some from them. And this morning while finishing off that wall all
the tiles fixed with this stuff yesterday fell off. Quite a shock when the
first one went. The adhesive remained stuck to the tiles and you could see
it had been flattened where it contacted the wall but had come off clean
as a whistle from the plaster. The ones stuck with the Homebase stuff are
absolutely solid on the same wall.

I'm obviously going to get the Homebase stuff again - but what's wrong
with the Wicks product? Stored past its best or just no good? And do I
just take it back and complain?

Luckily not one tile was damaged by falling 6 ft or so.

I wouldn't buy any of these shed products - they are too variable and
not of good quality.

It would be well worthwhile calling the technical help line of Ardex
and giving them details of the substrates and the tiles.

They have a number of fixing systems which will cover virtually every
eventuality. Some involve the use of an admix to the adhesive or a
binding preparation for the wall, rather than a need to purchase
multiple adhesives.

I had similarly sized and heavy tiles to fit to a variety of surfaces
including plasterboard, skimmed plasterboard, plaster and plywood.
For the plywood, they recommended a two part conditioner product, which
when mixed and applied leaves a sticky surface even when cured. It
will then work with the adhesive that is used for the other surfaces.

Certainly Ardex adhesives are more expensive than shed products, but in
the context of the complete project, the difference is negligible.

In article 47a5ffa6@qaanaaq,
Andy Hall wrote:
I'm obviously going to get the Homebase stuff again - but what's wrong
with the Wicks product? Stored past its best or just no good? And do I
just take it back and complain?

Luckily not one tile was damaged by falling 6 ft or so.

I wouldn't buy any of these shed products - they are too variable and
not of good quality.

It would be well worthwhile calling the technical help line of Ardex
and giving them details of the substrates and the tiles.

The Homebase stuff seems just fine. I decided to re-do one bit after
changing my mind on the tile layout - it's a very odd shaped room - and
those tiles which had been up for about three days removed the skim from
the plaster - which was about 20 years old. Can't really ask for a
stronger adhesive. Took some removing from the tiles too.

--
*If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.