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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Attic Roof Insulation
Can anyone help? We are wanting to insulate between the rafters of our
attic roof which are about 90mm in depth. It is an old house (1900), the roof is tiled and doesn't have roof felt or sacking so the insulation would back on to the roof tiles. We have read you need a space of 50mm between the insulation and the roof tiles and some suggestions that instead of insulating between the rafters you should insulate across them. My thoughts are to get some 50mm Kingspan insulation and leave a 40mm to the tiles given the age of the house and the fact that there is unlikely to be condensation problems given the age of the house and there being no roof felt barrier. Is 50mm enough? Are there any guidelines? Any advice welcomed - thanks in advance. |
#2
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Attic Roof Insulation
Having looked at Kingspan TP10 literature it seems to suggest that it
is rafter level insulation with no condensation risk - does this mean no need for a gap and the ability to put in a thicker depth of insulation or is 50mm enough? Is TP10 the best stuff for between rafters insulation? Thanks. |
#3
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Attic Roof Insulation
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#4
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Attic Roof Insulation
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#6
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Attic Roof Insulation
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Polyisocyanurate is the best commercial material for insulation there is. Kingspan and celotex ate the current dogs ********. Must remember that next time we get a puppy - cheaper than paying the vet. David |
#7
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Attic Roof Insulation
In article , The Natural
Philosopher writes wrote: Having looked at Kingspan TP10 literature it seems to suggest that it is rafter level insulation with no condensation risk - does this mean no need for a gap and the ability to put in a thicker depth of insulation or is 50mm enough? Is TP10 the best stuff for between rafters insulation? Thanks. I think what the condensation bit means is that it is foil covered, and impermeable. It doesn't mean that you don't need a gap. You need to ventilate those rafters for sure. The air above will be wet in humid weather, and at night you may well get condensation running down the top surface as the temp goes below dew point. That has to be allowed to run away down to the eaves and the residue evaporate. Polyisocyanurate is the best commercial material for insulation there is. Kingspan and celotex ate the current dogs ********. Thinking more about this, if you have the space, Id be tempted to try and mount the stoff OFF the rafters altogether - to make a 'tent' of insulation underneath, because I am concerned that condensation above the insulation layer may in time affect the rafters: when you take a roof that expects heat to bleed from below to help keep it dry, and then seal that heat off..things change. And you have no sarking..so its slightly unusual. Although it does take up more space I agree with your last suggestion, if the rafters do get wet for any reason and there is material between them you will have damp timber in an enclosed trench which will have no opportunity to dry out, potentially leading to rot problems. -- fred Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla |
#8
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Attic Roof Insulation
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#9
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Attic Roof Insulation
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes: Thinking more about this, if you have the space, Id be tempted to try and mount the stoff OFF the rafters altogether - to make a 'tent' of insulation underneath, because I am concerned that condensation above the insulation layer may in time affect the rafters: when you take a I did this with a lean-to construction roof (over my bathroom). I fixed the underside of the rafters with pressure treated roofing battens at right angles, and then fixed the Kingspan to those (or in most cases through those into the rafters. I provided a vent in the gable end above the Kingspan, and the roofing felt looped down enough to provide further ventilation. The rafters showed some signs of rot which had been repaired (before my time, probably when slates were replaced), and I wanted to make sure they stayed very well ventilated. My worry was not condensation, but any water ingress through the roof which I would likely not notice one the Kingspan was in place, and without ventilation might lead to serious rotting of the rafters. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#10
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Attic Roof Insulation
On 8 Jan, 14:44, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article , * * * * The Natural Philosopher writes: Thinking more about this, if you have the space, Id be tempted to try and mount the stoff OFF the rafters altogether - to make a 'tent' of insulation underneath, because I am concerned that condensation above the insulation layer may in time affect the rafters: when you take a I did this with a lean-to construction roof (over my bathroom). I fixed the underside of the rafters with pressure treated roofing battens at right angles, and then fixed the Kingspan to those (or in most cases through those into the rafters. I provided a vent in the gable end above the Kingspan, and the roofing felt looped down enough to provide further ventilation. The rafters showed some signs of rot which had been repaired (before my time, probably when slates were replaced), and I wanted to make sure they stayed very well ventilated. My worry was not condensation, but any water ingress through the roof which I would likely not notice one the Kingspan was in place, and without ventilation might lead to serious rotting of the rafters. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] Dear all, thanks for your replies. I am the posters other half. The loft is actually an attic room that had a low ceiling with no insulation behind it and a couple of plaster board dividers behind which the tiles have always been exposed (not weight bearing walls or anyhting just boards) we want to use the room as a bedroom and insulate it properly, as it was too cold in winter and too hot in summer. It has an original window in the side gable. So we have taken the ceiling down (100 years of muck) so now we have a roof that needs some insulation before we can plaster and redecorate so it is not quite a conversion just a bit of updating. With that in mind. would you give the same advice?, thanks for your help! |
#11
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Attic Roof Insulation
wrote in message ... Can anyone help? We are wanting to insulate between the rafters of our attic roof which are about 90mm in depth. It is an old house (1900), the roof is tiled and doesn't have roof felt or sacking so the insulation would back on to the roof tiles. We have read you need a space of 50mm between the insulation and the roof tiles and some suggestions that instead of insulating between the rafters you should insulate across them. My thoughts are to get some 50mm Kingspan insulation and leave a 40mm to the tiles given the age of the house and the fact that there is unlikely to be condensation problems given the age of the house and there being no roof felt barrier. Is 50mm enough? Are there any guidelines? Any advice welcomed - thanks in advance. Have you investigated Renotherm? http://www.renotherm.co.uk/ I'd be interested to hear if anyone has used this company or similar. Michael (with a similar problem) . |
#12
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Attic Roof Insulation
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#13
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Attic Roof Insulation
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:54:23 -0000, Michael Shergold wrote:
Have you investigated Renotherm? http://www.renotherm.co.uk/ I'd be interested to hear if anyone has used this company or similar. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. How does any damp that gets onto the timbers get out again in a timely manner? To me it's asking for the roof timbers to rot. And when the time comes to replace the roof properly it's going to be a right mess and probably require far more replacement timber than otherwise would be required. As a buyer of a property I'd be very wary of place with it, what is it hiding? In the long term and for sale-abilty you are far better off stripping the roof, replacing timbers as required, putting on a modern breathable sarking and replacing the orginal tiles/slates. You will need some new but put them round the back or something. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
#15
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Attic Roof Insulation
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message ll.net... On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:54:23 -0000, Michael Shergold wrote: Have you investigated Renotherm? http://www.renotherm.co.uk/ I'd be interested to hear if anyone has used this company or similar. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. How does any damp that gets onto the timbers get out again in a timely manner? To me it's asking for the roof timbers to rot. And when the time comes to replace the roof properly it's going to be a right mess and probably require far more replacement timber than otherwise would be required. As a buyer of a property I'd be very wary of place with it, what is it hiding? In the long term and for sale-abilty you are far better off stripping the roof, replacing timbers as required, putting on a modern breathable sarking and replacing the orginal tiles/slates. You will need some new but put them round the back or something. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail The best advice yet, Dave |
#16
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Attic Roof Insulation
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:54:23 -0000, Michael Shergold wrote: Have you investigated Renotherm? http://www.renotherm.co.uk/ I'd be interested to hear if anyone has used this company or similar. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. If you put that into your loft I wouldn't buy your house. Andy |
#17
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Attic Roof Insulation
In article ,
Andy Champ says... Dave Liquorice wrote: On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:54:23 -0000, Michael Shergold wrote: Have you investigated Renotherm? http://www.renotherm.co.uk/ I'd be interested to hear if anyone has used this company or similar. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. If you put that into your loft I wouldn't buy your house. Andy Interesting that roof insulation experts always talk about leaving an air gap between slates and insulation. That product is sprayed directly onto the tiles. Is that the problem with it? -- David in Normandy |
#18
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Attic Roof Insulation
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 20:21:34 +0000, Andy Champ wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote: On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:54:23 -0000, Michael Shergold wrote: Have you investigated Renotherm? http://www.renotherm.co.uk/ I'd be interested to hear if anyone has used this company or similar. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. If you put that into your loft I wouldn't buy your house. OK, I'll bite. This stuff has been around now long enough to show any bad effects - have any been seen in the flesh? My (rented) place has the attic done like this. Seems OK so far, but then again I don't know how long it's been in place... I presume the issue is condensation/rot in the timbers? |
#19
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Attic Roof Insulation
PCPaul wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 20:21:34 +0000, Andy Champ wrote: Dave Liquorice wrote: On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:54:23 -0000, Michael Shergold wrote: Have you investigated Renotherm? http://www.renotherm.co.uk/ I'd be interested to hear if anyone has used this company or similar. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. If you put that into your loft I wouldn't buy your house. OK, I'll bite. This stuff has been around now long enough to show any bad effects - have any been seen in the flesh? My (rented) place has the attic done like this. Seems OK so far, but then again I don't know how long it's been in place... I presume the issue is condensation/rot in the timbers? I might be paranoid, and wrong, but I don't need to take the chance. When this is on the inside of the tiles the condition of the timbers cannot be assessed. It's been used because there is some kind of problem with the roof, and it hides whatever the problem is. That's enough to put me off. Andy |
#20
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Attic Roof Insulation
David in Normandy wrote:
In article , Andy Champ says... Dave Liquorice wrote: On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:54:23 -0000, Michael Shergold wrote: Have you investigated Renotherm? http://www.renotherm.co.uk/ I'd be interested to hear if anyone has used this company or similar. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. If you put that into your loft I wouldn't buy your house. Andy Interesting that roof insulation experts always talk about leaving an air gap between slates and insulation. That product is sprayed directly onto the tiles. Is that the problem with it? Largely, yes. |
#21
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Attic Roof Insulation
PCPaul wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 20:21:34 +0000, Andy Champ wrote: Dave Liquorice wrote: On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:54:23 -0000, Michael Shergold wrote: Have you investigated Renotherm? http://www.renotherm.co.uk/ I'd be interested to hear if anyone has used this company or similar. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. If you put that into your loft I wouldn't buy your house. OK, I'll bite. This stuff has been around now long enough to show any bad effects - have any been seen in the flesh? My (rented) place has the attic done like this. Seems OK so far, but then again I don't know how long it's been in place... I presume the issue is condensation/rot in the timbers? Yup. Any water that gets under the slates into the beams will dry very slowly. The whole key to damp control, is either to keep it ALL out, or let air circulate to dry out any that gets in. this product does neither. Nor will ity be easy to replace any damaged roof slates etc. Essentially 30 years on, the whole roof will start to sag and slip, and will need total replacement, like as not. Thats may not be an issue today, but 20 years down the line, some surveyor is going to knock off 30 grand (or whatever a new roof costs) off the asking price,.. |
#22
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Attic Roof Insulation
"Andy Champ" wrote in message ... PCPaul wrote: On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 20:21:34 +0000, Andy Champ wrote: Dave Liquorice wrote: On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:54:23 -0000, Michael Shergold wrote: Have you investigated Renotherm? http://www.renotherm.co.uk/ I'd be interested to hear if anyone has used this company or similar. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. If you put that into your loft I wouldn't buy your house. OK, I'll bite. This stuff has been around now long enough to show any bad effects - have any been seen in the flesh? My (rented) place has the attic done like this. Seems OK so far, but then again I don't know how long it's been in place... I presume the issue is condensation/rot in the timbers? I might be paranoid, and wrong, but I don't need to take the chance. When this is on the inside of the tiles the condition of the timbers cannot be assessed. It's been used because there is some kind of problem with the roof, and it hides whatever the problem is. That's enough to put me off. Andy Their website has a Q&A section that states Q. Does Renotherm trap moisture in the roof timbers? A. No, Renotherm does not absorb water but it does allow water vapour to pass through the foam, at about the same rate as wood itself. Q. Can alterations be made in the future? A. Yes, the foam can be cut out and the tiles removed. Small areas can be re-foamed with a Foamseal pack. Michael |
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