PIR v Dawn Dusk
 

Someone recently described a 500w PIR flood light as "fixing a half bar
electric fire outside".

Which has got me thinking. Especially given the unreliability of 500w
halogen lamps/lights.

So, given the choice between a 500w PIR halogen & an 11w CFL dawn dusk
light - which will be cheaper to run?

Obviously an 11w CFL dawn/dusk will be on for a much longer period, but is
low energy, won't be triggered randomly & will have a longer service life
PIR lights being a PITA IMO (sorry Rob)!

On the other hand a 500w halogen PIR in theory will be on for much shorter
periods, but will consume much more power.

Again in theory an 11w CFL could be on for 45 times as long for the same
energy.

So which one is the best deal for the customer?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

PIR v Dawn Dusk
 

In article ,
"The Medway Handyman" writes:
Someone recently described a 500w PIR flood light as "fixing a half bar
electric fire outside".

Which has got me thinking. Especially given the unreliability of 500w
halogen lamps/lights.

So, given the choice between a 500w PIR halogen & an 11w CFL dawn dusk
light - which will be cheaper to run?

Obviously an 11w CFL dawn/dusk will be on for a much longer period, but is
low energy, won't be triggered randomly & will have a longer service life
PIR lights being a PITA IMO (sorry Rob)!

On the other hand a 500w halogen PIR in theory will be on for much shorter
periods, but will consume much more power.

Again in theory an 11w CFL could be on for 45 times as long for the same
energy.

So which one is the best deal for the customer?

Depends what the customer wants. However, if an 11W CFL is good
enough for the customer, a 500W halogen was never required in
the first place. An 11w CFL is nearer to a 40W light bulb.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

PIR v Dawn Dusk
 

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"The Medway Handyman" writes:
Someone recently described a 500w PIR flood light as "fixing a half
bar electric fire outside".

Which has got me thinking. Especially given the unreliability of
500w halogen lamps/lights.

So, given the choice between a 500w PIR halogen & an 11w CFL dawn
dusk light - which will be cheaper to run?

Obviously an 11w CFL dawn/dusk will be on for a much longer period,
but is low energy, won't be triggered randomly & will have a longer
service life PIR lights being a PITA IMO (sorry Rob)!

On the other hand a 500w halogen PIR in theory will be on for much
shorter periods, but will consume much more power.

Again in theory an 11w CFL could be on for 45 times as long for the
same energy.

So which one is the best deal for the customer?

Depends what the customer wants. However, if an 11W CFL is good
enough for the customer, a 500W halogen was never required in
the first place. An 11w CFL is nearer to a 40W light bulb.

I find people have two thoughts on this. One is security lead, "a light
switching on will deter burgulars", the other is convenience lead " if
we/visitors arrive after dark there will be a light on".

I'm starting to think dawn/dusk meets both criteria. Just wondering about
the energy costs.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

PIR v Dawn Dusk
 

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
.uk...
Someone recently described a 500w PIR flood light as "fixing a half bar
electric fire outside".


A fire tends to be left on, a light doesn't unless there is lots of activity
or it is faulty.

Which has got me thinking. Especially given the unreliability of 500w
halogen lamps/lights.


I have never known them to be unreliable, it's usually people don't know how
to fit them or wire them.

So, given the choice between a 500w PIR halogen & an 11w CFL dawn dusk
light - which will be cheaper to run?


Who cares, I would prefer a nice bright light rather than one that uses 11w
and stays on.

Obviously an 11w CFL dawn/dusk will be on for a much longer period, but is
low energy, won't be triggered randomly & will have a longer service life
PIR lights being a PITA IMO (sorry Rob)!


No one will take any notice of a small 11w light.

On the other hand a 500w halogen PIR in theory will be on for much shorter
periods, but will consume much more power.


Only while it is on.

Again in theory an 11w CFL could be on for 45 times as long for the same
energy.


So get a huge LED type which will use a lot less than 11w. You might need
to make it yourself.

So which one is the best deal for the customer?



The cheapest one which is a 500w. It's more effective.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

PIR v Dawn Dusk
 

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. uk...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"The Medway Handyman" writes:
Someone recently described a 500w PIR flood light as "fixing a half
bar electric fire outside".

Which has got me thinking. Especially given the unreliability of
500w halogen lamps/lights.

So, given the choice between a 500w PIR halogen & an 11w CFL dawn
dusk light - which will be cheaper to run?

Obviously an 11w CFL dawn/dusk will be on for a much longer period,
but is low energy, won't be triggered randomly & will have a longer
service life PIR lights being a PITA IMO (sorry Rob)!

On the other hand a 500w halogen PIR in theory will be on for much
shorter periods, but will consume much more power.

Again in theory an 11w CFL could be on for 45 times as long for the
same energy.

So which one is the best deal for the customer?

Depends what the customer wants. However, if an 11W CFL is good
enough for the customer, a 500W halogen was never required in
the first place. An 11w CFL is nearer to a 40W light bulb.

I find people have two thoughts on this. One is security lead, "a light
switching on will deter burgulars", the other is convenience lead " if
we/visitors arrive after dark there will be a light on".

I'm starting to think dawn/dusk meets both criteria. Just wondering about
the energy costs.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257


Get yourself off to B&Q, they sell a 500w style light which uses a
fluorescent tube.
You should be able to work out how much a light will cost to use. If
someone fitted a small 11w light as a security light for me, I would ask if
they were being serious.
You look out of a window and see how much the small 11w lamp will light a
garden compared to a 500w light. You can get a smaller 150w if you prefer.

PIR v Dawn Dusk
 

In message
"john" wrote:


"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. uk...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"The Medway Handyman" writes:
Someone recently described a 500w PIR flood light as "fixing a half
bar electric fire outside".

Which has got me thinking. Especially given the unreliability of
500w halogen lamps/lights.

I fitted a 150w one about 4 years ago. It's still on its first tube.
I estimate it's powered up about 30 minutes/day max during winter
months. It would be worth trying to estimate how often it would be
triggered and how long, once triggered, it would need to stay on for.

So, given the choice between a 500w PIR halogen & an 11w CFL dawn
dusk light - which will be cheaper to run?

A 150w one?

[snip]

Get yourself off to B&Q, they sell a 500w style light which uses a
fluorescent tube.
You should be able to work out how much a light will cost to use. If
someone fitted a small 11w light as a security light for me, I would ask if
they were being serious.
You look out of a window and see how much the small 11w lamp will light a
garden compared to a 500w light. You can get a smaller 150w if you prefer.

It's surprising how well a 150w one works ... unless you need it to
cover a very large area.

Barry
--
There are two secrets to life:
1) Never tell anyone everything you know.

PIR v Dawn Dusk
 

john wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message . uk...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"The Medway Handyman" writes:
Someone recently described a 500w PIR flood light as "fixing a half
bar electric fire outside".

Which has got me thinking. Especially given the unreliability of
500w halogen lamps/lights.

So, given the choice between a 500w PIR halogen & an 11w CFL dawn
dusk light - which will be cheaper to run?

Obviously an 11w CFL dawn/dusk will be on for a much longer period,
but is low energy, won't be triggered randomly & will have a longer
service life PIR lights being a PITA IMO (sorry Rob)!

On the other hand a 500w halogen PIR in theory will be on for much
shorter periods, but will consume much more power.

Again in theory an 11w CFL could be on for 45 times as long for the
same energy.

So which one is the best deal for the customer?

Depends what the customer wants. However, if an 11W CFL is good
enough for the customer, a 500W halogen was never required in
the first place. An 11w CFL is nearer to a 40W light bulb.

I find people have two thoughts on this. One is security lead, "a
light switching on will deter burgulars", the other is convenience
lead " if we/visitors arrive after dark there will be a light on".

I'm starting to think dawn/dusk meets both criteria. Just wondering
about the energy costs.


Get yourself off to B&Q, they sell a 500w style light which uses a
fluorescent tube.

I'll have a look, thanks.

You should be able to work out how much a light will cost to use. If
someone fitted a small 11w light as a security light for me, I would
ask if they were being serious.

I have an 11w dawn/dusk light outside the front door, it does the job of
illuminating the area.

You look out of a window and see how much the small 11w lamp will
light a garden compared to a 500w light. You can get a smaller 150w
if you prefer.

150w seems to be the way forward - when I can track down a make that uses a
relay.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

PIR v Dawn Dusk
 

In article ,
"The Medway Handyman" writes:

150w seems to be the way forward - when I can track down a make that uses a
relay.

You should really be using separate PIR and light, because they
almost never want to go in the same place -- the light should be
high up (particularly the type you are talking about), but the
PIR should be low enough to have a sweeping view of the area
covered. The separate PIRs are more professional devices which
are more likely to contain relays. The combined lights/PIRs are
cheaper products aimed more at the DIY market.

Two that I have used are these, and they both contain relays:
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search/pr...sp?sku=SR00199
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search/pr...sp?sku=SR00915

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

PIR v Dawn Dusk
 

On Jan 6, 1:36 am, "john" wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in der.co.uk...



Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"The Medway Handyman" writes:
Someone recently described a 500w PIR flood light as "fixing a half
bar electric fire outside".

Which has got me thinking. Especially given the unreliability of
500w halogen lamps/lights.

So, given the choice between a 500w PIR halogen & an 11w CFL dawn
dusk light - which will be cheaper to run?

Obviously an 11w CFL dawn/dusk will be on for a much longer period,
but is low energy, won't be triggered randomly & will have a longer
service life PIR lights being a PITA IMO (sorry Rob)!

On the other hand a 500w halogen PIR in theory will be on for much
shorter periods, but will consume much more power.

Again in theory an 11w CFL could be on for 45 times as long for the
same energy.

So which one is the best deal for the customer?

Depends what the customer wants. However, if an 11W CFL is good
enough for the customer, a 500W halogen was never required in
the first place. An 11w CFL is nearer to a 40W light bulb.

I find people have two thoughts on this. One is security lead, "a light
switching on will deter burgulars", the other is convenience lead " if
we/visitors arrive after dark there will be a light on".

I'm starting to think dawn/dusk meets both criteria. Just wondering about
the energy costs.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

Get yourself off to B&Q, they sell a 500w style light which uses a
fluorescent tube.
You should be able to work out how much a light will cost to use. If
someone fitted a small 11w light as a security light for me, I would ask if
they were being serious.
You look out of a window and see how much the small 11w lamp will light a
garden compared to a 500w light. You can get a smaller 150w if you prefer.

Can also fit a 300W lamp in a 500W fitting , they`re the same length.

Been told by local Crime Prevention Officer that PIRs are preferable
in some circumstances because they change and alert anyone nearby that
there is movement. Constantly on light just becomes part of the
scenery.

11W CFL is fine for your porch it dosen`t cut it for lighting an area.

Have a few PIR floods lighting a lane/yard and quality does seem
variable, B&Q Parkhurst are absolutely the worst had to change couple
of them in last year. Homebase one seem to have lasted well.

Reccomend putting a little bit of copper grease on the front glass
securing screw, helps when changing lamps, no more seized on glass.

Adam

PIR v Dawn Dusk
 

In article ,
Adam Aglionby writes:

Can also fit a 300W lamp in a 500W fitting , they`re the same length.

And 200W, but they're harder to find.

There are also energy saving versions -- 375W instead of 500W,
and 225W instead of 300W. These have an IR reflective coating
on the inside of the tube to reflect heat back on to the filament
to enable it to reach the same temperature by using (and wasting)
less power, whilst giving off same amount of light. These are
also hard to find -- I have bought them in B&Q, but they don't
often have them in stock. (I suspect the problem here is that
people interested in energy efficiency wouldn't use halogens in
the first place, so there's a rather small market interested in
energy saving halogens.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

PIR v Dawn Dusk
 

On 6 Jan, 00:39, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Someone recently described a 500w PIR flood light as "fixing a half bar
electric fire outside".

Which has got me thinking. Especially given the unreliability of 500w
halogen lamps/lights.

So, given the choice between a 500w PIR halogen & an 11w CFL dawn dusk
light - which will be cheaper to run?

Obviously an 11w CFL dawn/dusk will be on for a much longer period, but is
low energy, won't be triggered randomly & will have a longer service life
PIR lights being a PITA IMO (sorry Rob)!

On the other hand a 500w halogen PIR in theory will be on for much shorter
periods, but will consume much more power.

Again in theory an 11w CFL could be on for 45 times as long for the same
energy.

So which one is the best deal for the customer?

--
Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

PITA is hardly a technical term, Dave ! Apology accepted in good
grace :)

But every so often some one has to tug on the strings a little to
remind the 'technical and professional' on their language !

Rob

PIR v Dawn Dusk
 

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
.uk...
Someone recently described a 500w PIR flood light as "fixing a half bar
electric fire outside".

Which has got me thinking. Especially given the unreliability of 500w
halogen lamps/lights.

So, given the choice between a 500w PIR halogen & an 11w CFL dawn dusk
light - which will be cheaper to run?

I would use dusk to dawn lighting myself. That would be on for near enough
5,000 hours per annum, which would use the same electricity as a 500W PIR
controlled lamp running for 18 minutes each night. So.it all depends upon
how often the PIR is likely to be triggered and how long it is set to be on
for when it has been triggered.

.....
So which one is the best deal for the customer?

Another consideration is that the PIR triggered light shows that there is
movement in the area. On a patrolled factory estate, that can draw the
attention of the guard from quite a long way off, so the application is
important in deciding which is the best to use.

Personally, I prefer to have low power lamps on at all times. PIRs can be
fooled, but an always on light leaves anyone trying to break in constantly
illuminated, which is a useful deterrent in itself.

Colin Bignell

PIR v Dawn Dusk
 

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message .uk...
Someone recently described a 500w PIR flood light as "fixing a half
bar electric fire outside".

Which has got me thinking. Especially given the unreliability of
500w halogen lamps/lights.

So, given the choice between a 500w PIR halogen & an 11w CFL dawn
dusk light - which will be cheaper to run?

I would use dusk to dawn lighting myself. That would be on for near
enough 5,000 hours per annum, which would use the same electricity as
a 500W PIR controlled lamp running for 18 minutes each night. So.it
all depends upon how often the PIR is likely to be triggered and how
long it is set to be on for when it has been triggered.


Thats the info I was looking for. I reckon thats a good case for dawn/dusk.

....
So which one is the best deal for the customer?

Another consideration is that the PIR triggered light shows that
there is movement in the area. On a patrolled factory estate, that
can draw the attention of the guard from quite a long way off, so the
application is important in deciding which is the best to use.

True.

Personally, I prefer to have low power lamps on at all times. PIRs
can be fooled, but an always on light leaves anyone trying to break
in constantly illuminated, which is a useful deterrent in itself.

Good point.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

PIR v Dawn Dusk
 

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
.uk...
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message .uk...
Someone recently described a 500w PIR flood light as "fixing a half
bar electric fire outside".

Which has got me thinking. Especially given the unreliability of
500w halogen lamps/lights.

So, given the choice between a 500w PIR halogen & an 11w CFL dawn
dusk light - which will be cheaper to run?

I would use dusk to dawn lighting myself. That would be on for near
enough 5,000 hours per annum, which would use the same electricity as
a 500W PIR controlled lamp running for 18 minutes each night. So.it
all depends upon how often the PIR is likely to be triggered and how
long it is set to be on for when it has been triggered.


Thats the info I was looking for. I reckon thats a good case for
dawn/dusk.

....
So which one is the best deal for the customer?

Another consideration is that the PIR triggered light shows that
there is movement in the area. On a patrolled factory estate, that
can draw the attention of the guard from quite a long way off, so the
application is important in deciding which is the best to use.

True.

Personally, I prefer to have low power lamps on at all times. PIRs
can be fooled, but an always on light leaves anyone trying to break
in constantly illuminated, which is a useful deterrent in itself.

Good point.

Just to spoil things, we have both, two 18W CFL dusk to dawn lights in the
garden one at the back door and one on the side of the shed at the bottom of
the garden, this provides sufficient lighting of the garden but nothing too
bright to annoy the neighbours, it removes all the dark spots and as such
there is nowhere to hide. Then we have a 150W halogen floodlight with PIR,
so if someone was to enter the garden and approach the house this provides
more lighting and acts as a detterrent, with nowhere to hide, perfect for
keeping people out! Also when we are having a BBQ the garden is nicely lit
without the harshness of a 500W spotlight.

PIR v Dawn Dusk
 

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. uk...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"The Medway Handyman" writes:
Someone recently described a 500w PIR flood light as "fixing a half
bar electric fire outside".

Which has got me thinking. Especially given the unreliability of
500w halogen lamps/lights.

So, given the choice between a 500w PIR halogen & an 11w CFL dawn
dusk light - which will be cheaper to run?

Obviously an 11w CFL dawn/dusk will be on for a much longer period,
but is low energy, won't be triggered randomly & will have a longer
service life PIR lights being a PITA IMO (sorry Rob)!

On the other hand a 500w halogen PIR in theory will be on for much
shorter periods, but will consume much more power.

Again in theory an 11w CFL could be on for 45 times as long for the
same energy.

So which one is the best deal for the customer?

Depends what the customer wants. However, if an 11W CFL is good
enough for the customer, a 500W halogen was never required in
the first place. An 11w CFL is nearer to a 40W light bulb.

I find people have two thoughts on this. One is security lead, "a light
switching on will deter burgulars", the other is convenience lead " if
we/visitors arrive after dark there will be a light on".

I'm starting to think dawn/dusk meets both criteria. Just wondering about
the energy costs.

If people believe a cheap PIR will deter burgulars then invite them to look
at having proper window and door locks fitted and tell them to use them.
Dave, you could make money fitting good locks not crappy PIRs (or both)

Adam