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Default White mould on treated timber

We have a cellar that holds water in our 180yr old house. I've
recently had to replace the bottom 3 stairs and the pantry floor
because the timber had rotted due to the water vapour when the cellar
fills up with water(approx 3 inch of water). Cellar is 7 foot deep and
until recently had no air bricks at all and the timber that rotted had
no doubt been there years so it lasted quite long.

I have installed 2 air bricks and replaced the floor and stairs with
treated(tanalised) timber. I used bitumen paint on the ends of the
timber where they came in contact with the damp masonry. This was
maybe 3 months ago and today I went down in the cellar and was rather
shocked to see that the areas of the timber that had bitumen on are
dripping with water and also there is white mould on certain parts on
the timbers?

Is this to be unexpected? surely the timber that I have put in will be
better than the previous untreated timber.
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Default White mould on treated timber

On 23 Dec, 15:33, " wrote:
We have a cellar that holds water in our 180yr old house. I've
recently had to replace the bottom 3 stairs and the pantry floor
because the timber had rotted due to the water vapour when the cellar
fills up with water(approx 3 inch of water). Cellar is 7 foot deep and
until recently had no air bricks at all and the timber that rotted had
no doubt been there years so it lasted quite long.

I have installed 2 air bricks and replaced the floor and stairs with
treated(tanalised) timber. I used bitumen paint on the ends of the
timber where they came in contact with the damp masonry. This was
maybe 3 months ago and today I went down in the cellar and was rather
shocked to see that the areas of the timber that had bitumen on are
dripping with water and also there is white mould on certain parts on
the timbers?



Dear Mark
Are you sure it is mould and not fungus (not mould)or
efflorescence(salt crystals? If so take a picture and I will have a
look
To get a fungus after 3 months is not likely

Chris
PS
IF itis tanalised and has not been cut it is impervious to decay
c




Is this to be unexpected? surely the timber that I have put in will be
better than the previous untreated timber.


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Default White mould on treated timber

wrote:
On 23 Dec, 15:33, " wrote:
We have a cellar that holds water in our 180yr old house. I've
recently had to replace the bottom 3 stairs and the pantry floor
because the timber had rotted due to the water vapour when the cellar
fills up with water(approx 3 inch of water). Cellar is 7 foot deep
and until recently had no air bricks at all and the timber that
rotted had no doubt been there years so it lasted quite long.

I have installed 2 air bricks and replaced the floor and stairs with
treated(tanalised) timber. I used bitumen paint on the ends of the
timber where they came in contact with the damp masonry. This was
maybe 3 months ago and today I went down in the cellar and was rather
shocked to see that the areas of the timber that had bitumen on are
dripping with water and also there is white mould on certain parts on
the timbers?



Dear Mark
Are you sure it is mould and not fungus (not mould)or
efflorescence(salt crystals? If so take a picture and I will have a
look
To get a fungus after 3 months is not likely

Chris
PS
IF itis tanalised and has not been cut it is impervious to decay
c

-----------------------------------------


"To get a fungus after 3 months is not likely"

It is possible for timber to be infected with the dry rot fungus well within
three months - although unlikely with tanalised timber.

I have actuall seen new skirtings and window frames re-infected within that
time because a proper dry-rod eradication program had not been carried out
before their renewal.


"IF itis tanalised and has not been cut it is impervious to decay"

That is factually incorrect - tanalising only delays the onset of decay
(albeit for a long period and dependent upon local conditions) whether cut
or not.

Brian G




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Default White mould on treated timber

wrote:
We have a cellar that holds water in our 180yr old house. I've
recently had to replace the bottom 3 stairs and the pantry floor
because the timber had rotted due to the water vapour when the cellar
fills up with water(approx 3 inch of water). Cellar is 7 foot deep and
until recently had no air bricks at all and the timber that rotted had
no doubt been there years so it lasted quite long.

I have installed 2 air bricks and replaced the floor and stairs with
treated(tanalised) timber. I used bitumen paint on the ends of the
timber where they came in contact with the damp masonry. This was
maybe 3 months ago and today I went down in the cellar and was rather
shocked to see that the areas of the timber that had bitumen on are
dripping with water and also there is white mould on certain parts on
the timbers?


If the walls/air are as wet as you say then you can expect water to appear
on the bitumen - the vapour will turn to water as it hits the colder
surface.

if possible, can you take photographs of the problem and upload them to
www.tinypics.com and then post the relevant links here?

This will help to give a proper response rather than trying to guess an
answer.

Also, if the water in the cellar is that bad, then you really should be
looking to cure that problem before carrying out any repairs (other than
emergency ones) and I suspect that the installation of two air bricks is not
going to be anywhere near solving the vapour probem.

Brian G


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Default White mould on treated timber

wrote:
On 23 Dec, 15:33, " wrote:
We have a cellar that holds water in our 180yr old house. I've
recently had to replace the bottom 3 stairs and the pantry floor
because the timber had rotted due to the water vapour when the cellar
fills up with water(approx 3 inch of water). Cellar is 7 foot deep and
until recently had no air bricks at all and the timber that rotted had
no doubt been there years so it lasted quite long.

I have installed 2 air bricks and replaced the floor and stairs with
treated(tanalised) timber. I used bitumen paint on the ends of the
timber where they came in contact with the damp masonry. This was
maybe 3 months ago and today I went down in the cellar and was rather
shocked to see that the areas of the timber that had bitumen on are
dripping with water and also there is white mould on certain parts on
the timbers?



Dear Mark
Are you sure it is mould and not fungus (not mould)or
efflorescence(salt crystals? If so take a picture and I will have a
look
To get a fungus after 3 months is not likely

Chris
PS
IF itis tanalised and has not been cut it is impervious to decay
c


It looks like light white fluff. Like the kind of mould you see on
food, it wipes off. It's on the surface of both the tanilised and
bitumened timber.


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Default White mould on treated timber

On 23 Dec, 19:30, "Brian G" wrote:
wrote:
We have a cellar that holds water in our 180yr old house. I've
recently had to replace the bottom 3 stairs and the pantry floor
because the timber had rotted due to the water vapour when the cellar
fills up with water(approx 3 inch of water). Cellar is 7 foot deep and
until recently had no air bricks at all and the timber that rotted had
no doubt been there years so it lasted quite long.


I have installed 2 air bricks and replaced the floor and stairs with
treated(tanalised) timber. I used bitumen paint on the ends of the
timber where they came in contact with the damp masonry. This was
maybe 3 months ago and today I went down in the cellar and was rather
shocked to see that the areas of the timber that had bitumen on are
dripping with water and also there is white mould on certain parts on
the timbers?


If the walls/air are as wet as you say then you can expect water to appear
on the bitumen - the vapour will turn to water as it hits the colder
surface.

if possible, can you take photographs of the problem and upload them towww.tinypics.comand then post the relevant links here?


http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=8ad8jd3&s=1
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6q8vcsy&s=1
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6x764a0&s=1
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=7x3419w&s=1

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Default White mould on treated timber

On 23 Dec, 19:20, "Brian G" wrote:
wrote:
On 23 Dec, 15:33, " wrote:
We have a cellar that holds water in our 180yr old house. I've
recently had to replace the bottom 3 stairs and the pantry floor
because the timber had rotted due to the water vapour when the cellar
fills up with water(approx 3 inch of water). Cellar is 7 foot deep
and until recently had no air bricks at all and the timber that
rotted had no doubt been there years so it lasted quite long.


I have installed 2 air bricks and replaced the floor and stairs with
treated(tanalised) timber. I used bitumen paint on the ends of the
timber where they came in contact with the damp masonry. This was
maybe 3 months ago and today I went down in the cellar and was rather
shocked to see that the areas of the timber that had bitumen on are
dripping with water and also there is white mould on certain parts on
the timbers?


Dear Mark
Are you sure it is mould and not fungus (not *mould)or
efflorescence(salt crystals? *If so take a picture and I will have a
look
To get a fungus after 3 months is not likely


Chris
PS
IF itis tanalised and has not been cut it is impervious to decay
c


-----------------------------------------

"To get a fungus after 3 months is not likely"

It is possible for timber to be infected with the dry rot fungus well within
three months - although unlikely with tanalised timber.

I have actuall seen new skirtings and window frames re-infected within that
time because a proper dry-rod eradication program had not been carried out
before their renewal.

"IF itis tanalised and has not been cut it is impervious to decay"

That is factually incorrect - tanalising only delays the onset of decay
(albeit for a long period and dependent upon local conditions) whether cut
or not.

Brian G- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Dear Brian
Evidence please to support these two assertions?

I have been surveying houses for well over 40 years and prior to that
during my PhD studies carried out tests in a laboratory on fungal
degradation with a variety of wood-destroying fungi
I have seen such fungi ON tanalised timber and growing over it many
many times but it grows over it as an inert medium such as dry rot
grows over plaster or brick. I am happy to cite you papers where CCA
treated timber is tested from 4 kgs per cub m upwards to determine
weight loss (the lab test for decay) in comparison to untreated or
partially treated timbers and none show any decay. The main reason for
this is that the tanalith process chemically combines with the
hydroxyl groups on the timber as opposed to an active ingredient being
physically depositied and inhibits translocation of the heavy metal
irons that are the actual fungicides, So provided that the protective
envelope is not breached by cutting and that the loading of the
fungicide is in accordance with the presevation schedule the timber is
not only impervious to decay but also to leeching - the main precursor
of decay and also highly resistant to translocation of active
ingredient - another mechanism fungi have to overcome treatments.
Motorway fence posts are probably the most hazardous environment for
decay being buried in soil and these have a design life of a minimum
of 50 years. Any timber in a house is in effect impervious to decay
not being subject to the nitrogen supplement obtained when a post is
buried in the ground (e.g Baines et al circa 1976 ICST)

Wrt your
"It is possible for timber to be infected with the dry rot fungus well
within
three months "

This is quite accurate and I have seen it many time but of what
relevance is it to the posting? You are talking about RE-infecting but

Given the data in the posting
"...and the timber that rotted had no doubt been there years so it
lasted quite long.

IT is not dry rot and could not be in that cellar subject to flooding
as dry rot could not flourish in that environment - that is why
Coniophora puteana has a common name "Cellar Rot"!

Now I do not dispute that if you put new (untreated) timber into an
established attack of (dry) rot that you will not get SOME attack in
three months but that is not what I said and it was not the situation
that was posted. All the data support my view that for a new attack to
occur - that is timber to become wet enough from its initial mc of
less than 18%, for an appropriate spore to land on it, for the spore
to germinate, for the correct conditions of decay (oxygen, substrate,
water - the right % mc - spore or mycelium and the correct optimum
temperature) you would have a job getting a decent attack in 3 months
in a lab and would have to work at it hard let alon in a cellar in a
house where the chances are bordering on low to zero.

Happy to quote chapter and verse of all papers concerned to support my
statements and looking forward to your evidence in support of yours

Chris
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Default White mould on treated timber

On 23 Dec, 20:30, " wrote:
wrote:
On 23 Dec, 15:33, " wrote:
We have a cellar that holds water in our 180yr old house. I've
recently had to replace the bottom 3 stairs and the pantry floor
because the timber had rotted due to the water vapour when the cellar
fills up with water(approx 3 inch of water). Cellar is 7 foot deep and
until recently had no air bricks at all and the timber that rotted had
no doubt been there years so it lasted quite long.


I have installed 2 air bricks and replaced the floor and stairs with
treated(tanalised) timber. I used bitumen paint on the ends of the
timber where they came in contact with the damp masonry. This was
maybe 3 months ago and today I went down in the cellar and was rather
shocked to see that the areas of the timber that had bitumen on are
dripping with water and also there is white mould on certain parts on
the timbers?


Dear Mark
Are you sure it is mould and not fungus (not *mould)or
efflorescence(salt crystals? *If so take a picture and I will have a
look
To get a fungus after 3 months is not likely


Chris
PS
IF itis tanalised and has not been cut it is impervious to decay
c


It looks like light white fluff. Like the kind of mould you see on
food, it wipes off. It's on the surface of both the tanilised and
bitumened timber.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Look at it very closely - perhaps under a 10x lens and determine if
you are looking at a biological mould or fine inorganic salts that
just brush off
Sometimes shining a torch at it shows the fine crystals of
efflorescence and the brushing off makes it "disappear". If it is a
mould there is likely to be a residual material where brushed off onto
the floor. dificult to see in small quantities but try scraping it off
with a knife onto black paper
Either way you do not have decay problem
Cure is to
1) isolate with a dpm off a brick pier
2) introduce such ventilation as to keep ambient mc less than 18/20%

If you do this the odd flooding will not cause decay

If it is tanalised I would not worry at all provided the endgrain is
not cut where it abuts the dpm
Chris
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Default White mould on treated timber

On 23 Dec, 20:42, " wrote:
On 23 Dec, 19:30, "Brian G" wrote:





wrote:
We have a cellar that holds water in our 180yr old house. I've
recently had to replace the bottom 3 stairs and the pantry floor
because the timber had rotted due to the water vapour when the cellar
fills up with water(approx 3 inch of water). Cellar is 7 foot deep and
until recently had no air bricks at all and the timber that rotted had
no doubt been there years so it lasted quite long.


I have installed 2 air bricks and replaced the floor and stairs with
treated(tanalised) timber. I used bitumen paint on the ends of the
timber where they came in contact with the damp masonry. This was
maybe 3 months ago and today I went down in the cellar and was rather
shocked to see that the areas of the timber that had bitumen on are
dripping with water and also there is white mould on certain parts on
the timbers?


If the walls/air are as wet as you say then you can expect water to appear
on the bitumen - the vapour will turn to water as it hits the colder
surface.


if possible, can you take photographs of the problem and upload them towww.tinypics.comandthen post the relevant links here?


http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=8ad8...c=7x3419w&s=1- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Mark
Picy 2 looks like a mould as you say
It does not have the characteristics of a wood-destroying fungus but
it is impossible to be categorical as it could be the very early
stages of inception
I think it most unlikely in that environment
I will check with a colleague who works more with moulds as to what it
might be but the clue is that if it is forming on bitumenised timber
it is likely to be mould from condensation and not a w-destroying
fungus
See earlier advice from me for fixing it

Best wishes

c
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Default White mould on treated timber

On 23 Dec, 21:58, wrote:
On 23 Dec, 20:42, " wrote:



On 23 Dec, 19:30, "Brian G" wrote:


wrote:
We have a cellar that holds water in our 180yr old house. I've
recently had to replace the bottom 3 stairs and the pantry floor
because the timber had rotted due to the water vapour when the cellar
fills up with water(approx 3 inch of water). Cellar is 7 foot deep and
until recently had no air bricks at all and the timber that rotted had
no doubt been there years so it lasted quite long.


I have installed 2 air bricks and replaced the floor and stairs with
treated(tanalised) timber. I used bitumen paint on the ends of the
timber where they came in contact with the damp masonry. This was
maybe 3 months ago and today I went down in the cellar and was rather
shocked to see that the areas of the timber that had bitumen on are
dripping with water and also there is white mould on certain parts on
the timbers?


If the walls/air are as wet as you say then you can expect water to appear
on the bitumen - the vapour will turn to water as it hits the colder
surface.


if possible, can you take photographs of the problem and upload them towww.tinypics.comandthenpost the relevant links here?


http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=8ad8...view.ph...Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Mark
Picy 2 looks like a mould as you say
It does not have the characteristics of a wood-destroying fungus but
it is impossible to be categorical as it could be the very early
stages of inception
I think it most unlikely in that environment
I will check with a colleague who works more with moulds as to what it
might be but the clue is that if it is forming on bitumenised timber
it is likely to be mould from condensation and not a w-destroying
fungus
See earlier advice from me for fixing it

Best wishes

c


Thanks, hopefully it is condensation. We've been doing a lot of
plaster and cementing so there's been lots of condensation in the
house. Before I redid the floor and stairs some joiners had a go and
had used MDF and untreated softwood. That was on for a couple years
with no ventilation and didn't show any signs of this white fluffy
mould.


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Default White mould on treated timber

wrote:
On 23 Dec, 19:20, "Brian G" wrote:
wrote:
On 23 Dec, 15:33, "
wrote:
We have a cellar that holds water in our 180yr old house. I've
recently had to replace the bottom 3 stairs and the pantry floor
because the timber had rotted due to the water vapour when the
cellar fills up with water(approx 3 inch of water). Cellar is 7
foot deep and until recently had no air bricks at all and the
timber that rotted had no doubt been there years so it lasted
quite long.


I have installed 2 air bricks and replaced the floor and stairs
with treated(tanalised) timber. I used bitumen paint on the ends
of the timber where they came in contact with the damp masonry.
This was maybe 3 months ago and today I went down in the cellar
and was rather shocked to see that the areas of the timber that
had bitumen on are dripping with water and also there is white
mould on certain parts on the timbers?


Dear Mark
Are you sure it is mould and not fungus (not mould)or
efflorescence(salt crystals? If so take a picture and I will have a
look
To get a fungus after 3 months is not likely


Chris
PS
IF itis tanalised and has not been cut it is impervious to decay
c


-----------------------------------------

"To get a fungus after 3 months is not likely"

It is possible for timber to be infected with the dry rot fungus
well within three months - although unlikely with tanalised timber.

I have actuall seen new skirtings and window frames re-infected
within that time because a proper dry-rod eradication program had
not been carried out before their renewal.

"IF itis tanalised and has not been cut it is impervious to decay"

That is factually incorrect - tanalising only delays the onset of
decay (albeit for a long period and dependent upon local conditions)
whether cut or not.

Brian G- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Dear Brian
Evidence please to support these two assertions?


All my working life repairing buildings as a carpenter and general forman.

To answer you the fungus question first:

I have supervised the renewal of joinery in a property that was severly
infected with dry rot without first eradicating the damn stuff (against my
direct advice) and within three months, the new timber was infected - after
that little episode, my advice was followed.

You gave a sweeping statement that "IF itis tanalised and has not been cut
it is impervious to decay".

That is untrue, I have seen rotten tanalised timber - and in fact, the life
of such timber in certain circumstances is around 5 years.


A huge snip

Chris,

With all due deference to your knowledge (and I must admit I got bored with
the length of your post and gave up less than halfway through [1]) timber is
a living thing, and no amount of treatment by tanalisation (or any other
method for that matter) will allow it to last forever - all it does is
*prolong* its life.

And that is from over 40 years of working with the damn stuff and not
running laboratory experiments.


[1] Don't take offence at that as I have read the
specifications/dissertations and listened to archtitects, surveyors,
chemists and company reps spouting on about several different types of
timber treatment over the years and taken a lot of the information with a
'pinch of salt' - especially when even the so-called 'experts' try to
rubbish each other's claims.

And one of my joys was calling a rather arrogant rep back five years after
using his firms so-called "guaranteed for ever" treatment, to show him a
lovely piece of joinery thoroughly rotten and totally useless - that's life.

Never mind, have a nice Christmas.

Brian G


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Default White mould on treated timber

On 23 Dec, 23:28, "Brian G" wrote:
wrote:
On 23 Dec, 19:20, "Brian G" wrote:
wrote:
On 23 Dec, 15:33, "
wrote:
We have a cellar that holds water in our 180yr old house. I've
recently had to replace the bottom 3 stairs and the pantry floor
because the timber had rotted due to the water vapour when the
cellar fills up with water(approx 3 inch of water). Cellar is 7
foot deep and until recently had no air bricks at all and the
timber that rotted had no doubt been there years so it lasted
quite long.


I have installed 2 air bricks and replaced the floor and stairs
with treated(tanalised) timber. I used bitumen paint on the ends
of the timber where they came in contact with the damp masonry.
This was maybe 3 months ago and today I went down in the cellar
and was rather shocked to see that the areas of the timber that
had bitumen on are dripping with water and also there is white
mould on certain parts on the timbers?


Dear Mark
Are you sure it is mould and not fungus (not mould)or
efflorescence(salt crystals? If so take a picture and I will have a
look
To get a fungus after 3 months is not likely


Chris
PS
IF itis tanalised and has not been cut it is impervious to decay
c


-----------------------------------------


"To get a fungus after 3 months is not likely"


It is possible for timber to be infected with the dry rot fungus
well within three months - although unlikely with tanalised timber.


I have actuall seen new skirtings and window frames re-infected
within that time because a proper dry-rod eradication program had
not been carried out before their renewal.


"IF itis tanalised and has not been cut it is impervious to decay"


That is factually incorrect - tanalising only delays the onset of
decay (albeit for a long period and dependent upon local conditions)
whether cut or not.


Brian G- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Dear Brian
Evidence please to support these two assertions?


All my working life repairing buildings as a carpenter and general forman.

To answer you the fungus question first:

I have supervised the renewal of joinery in a property that was severly
infected with dry rot without first eradicating the damn stuff (against my
direct advice) and within three months, the new timber was infected - after
that little episode, my advice was followed.

You gave a sweeping statement that "IF itis tanalised and has not been cut
it is impervious to decay".

That is untrue, I have seen rotten tanalised timber - and in fact, the life
of such timber in certain circumstances is around 5 years.



A huge snip

Chris,

With all due deference to your knowledge (and I must admit I got bored with
the length of your post and gave up less than halfway through [1]) timber is
a living thing, and no amount of treatment by tanalisation (or any other
method for that matter) will allow it to last forever - all it does is
*prolong* its life.

And that is from over 40 years of working with the damn stuff and not
running laboratory experiments.

[1] * *Don't take offence at that as I have read the
specifications/dissertations and listened to archtitects, surveyors,
chemists and company reps spouting on about several different types of
timber treatment over the years and taken a lot of the information with a
'pinch of salt' - especially when even the so-called 'experts' try to
rubbish each other's claims.

And one of my joys was calling a rather arrogant rep back five years after
using his firms so-called "guaranteed for ever" treatment, to show him a
lovely piece of joinery thoroughly rotten and totally useless - that's life.

Never mind, have a nice Christmas.

Brian G- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Dear Brian
Thank you for your wishes for Christmas. I asked for your evidence. As
I see it your response was
a) 40 years as a carpenter and general foreman on site
[I have 32 years practical site experience as a specialist in control
of wood-destroying organisms ranging from woodworm to fungi AND prior
to that 9 years academic qualification both as a timber engineer and
quite specifically in Fungal Enzymic Degradation of Wood with
particular reference to Hemicelluloses]
b)You assert without any EVIDENCE of scientific experimental data
quoted that "..[1]) timber is a living thing, and no amount of
treatment by tanalisation (or any other method for that matter) will
allow it to last forever - all it does is *prolong* its life. "
[The first sentence is factually incorrect - timber is a DEAD tree. OK
so you meant it WAS once a living thing. You go on to say no amount of
treatment will "allow" it to last "forever". This is quite true but
IN THE CONTEXT OF THE POST is quite a ludicrous "argument" as the
world is only likely to last another 4,000,000 years before it gets
swallowed up by the sun and nothing lasts forever. What you meant by
the term I cannot guess but suspect you mean forseable future in terms
of mankind's history which would, say be several hundred thousand
years[?} I was not making such a claim. I said it would be impervious
to decay and my statement was limited to THAT HOUSE and THAT
ENVIRONMENT cited in the post - namely a cellar subject to occasional
flooding.
Because I have studied the ~Tanalith process as a biochemist (my first
degree) I have an understanding of the effect of heavy metal ions on
the enzymes used to decay wood and uniquely in the wood preserving
processes the tanalith does provide a chemical bond. It is thus more
resistant to leeching that any other process as you cannot leach out
an active ingredient that is chemically bound. Thus, your statement
"...no amount of treatment by tanalisation (or any other method for
that matter) will allow it to last forever - all it does is
*prolong* its life..." is NOT correct in this situation. Of course it
is correct in that NOTHING including the Earth lasts forever but that
is simply not pertinent to this discussion. Such timber WILL last
indefinately in a house that is irregularly flooded as there is no
known decay mechanism that will attack such timber provided it has not
been cut and the envelope of treated timber is there and contains more
than 4 kgs per cubic m. I HAVE seen many cases of dry rot growing over
such timber on site and can quote chapter and verse of experimental
data to support the statement by means of accelerated ageing and
weight loss tests of treated samples. So I have not only support from
academic sources for my statment but also from my 32 years on site
running a business repairing timbers in houses.

3)
"And that is from over 40 years of working with the damn stuff and not
running laboratory experiments."

The lack of laboratory understanding, let alone chemical knowledge is
a limitation not evidence in support. The pejorative reference to
laboratory experiments shows you to be NOT open minded and open to
reasoned argument supported by data.

4) re "as I have read the specifications/dissertations and listened to
archtitects, surveyors,
chemists and company reps spouting on about several different types of
timber treatment over the years "
[I have a degree in biochemistry, four years of study specifically in
timber degradation by fungi resluting in a PhD, two futher degrees
one in timber engineering and was the first person to get credits in
all three modules of the professional exam CSRT run by the Institute
of Wood Science. I have lectured to these architects and engineers at
the SPAB and to a certain extent agree with you that many if not most
of the practicioners in the field (especially the salesmen) do not
know what they are talking about but quoting their opinons as wrong
should not let you fall into the trap of putting me in the same box as
them.]
5)re "and taken a lot of the information with a 'pinch of salt' -
especially when even the so-called 'experts' try to rubbish each
other's claims. " Well at last we agree!
6)re "And one of my joys was calling a rather arrogant rep back five
years after
using his firms so-called "guaranteed for ever" treatment, to show him a
lovely piece of joinery thoroughly rotten and totally useless - that's life."

Of what relevance to any of my assertions is this wholly predictable
and quite true anecdote? None - you fall into the trap of conflating
two separate issues.

I suggest it is probably that any experience you have of tanalised
timber rotting on site (and you have not cited any) is due to cutting
of the envelope rather than failure of the treatment.
I rest my case.

Chris
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Default White mould on treated timber

On Dec 23, 11:28*pm, "Brian G" wrote:

That is untrue, I have seen rotten tanalised timber - and in fact, the life
of such timber in certain circumstances is around 5 years.


Tanalising has become a bit of an abused generic term to mean anything
dipped in a vat of green liquid. It should mean something treated to
the Tanalith process and spec.

Nevertheless, AIUI cut ends should still be treated so even the real
deal is not totally fule proof.

And one of my joys was calling a rather arrogant rep back five years after
using his firms so-called "guaranteed for ever" treatment, to show him a
lovely piece of joinery thoroughly rotten and totally useless - that's life.


AFIAK, the best preservatives are based on copper and give the wood a
nice green colour. Most anything else will leach to some extent,
especially from end grain.

Sikkens recommend in their bumph that joinery be given a coat of stain
*all round* before assembly, this would help minimise leaching (but
adds a little to time and cost)

I usually give hidden surfaces a coat of water based stain, dries in
next to no time if the wood has a low MC.

cheers,
Pete.
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Default White mould on treated timber

Pete C wrote:
On Dec 23, 11:28�pm, "Brian G" wrote:

That is untrue, I have seen rotten tanalised timber - and in fact, the life
of such timber in certain circumstances is around 5 years.


Tanalising has become a bit of an abused generic term to mean anything
dipped in a vat of green liquid. It should mean something treated to
the Tanalith process and spec.

Nevertheless, AIUI cut ends should still be treated so even the real
deal is not totally fule proof.

And one of my joys was calling a rather arrogant rep back five years after
using his firms so-called "guaranteed for ever" treatment, to show him a
lovely piece of joinery thoroughly rotten and totally useless - that's life.


AFIAK, the best preservatives are based on copper and give the wood a
nice green colour. Most anything else will leach to some extent,
especially from end grain.

Sikkens recommend in their bumph that joinery be given a coat of stain
*all round* before assembly, this would help minimise leaching (but
adds a little to time and cost)

I usually give hidden surfaces a coat of water based stain, dries in
next to no time if the wood has a low MC.

cheers,
Pete.

Pressure treating only goes into the wood a few mm. (Sawn) end grain is
completely unprotected by it.
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Default White mould on treated timber

In article , The Natural
Philosopher writes

Pressure treating only goes into the wood a few mm. (Sawn) end grain is
completely unprotected by it.


As are any cracks that form after treatment.

regards

--
Tim Lamb


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Default White mould on treated timber

Tim Lamb wrote:
In article , The Natural
Philosopher writes

Pressure treating only goes into the wood a few mm. (Sawn) end grain is
completely unprotected by it.


As are any cracks that form after treatment.

regards

Good point.
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