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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
How safe is it to fix a boiler of about 45Kg to a breeze block wall?
The manual states simply to fix it on a strong wall. Breeze blocks are widely used for external wall (on the inner leave at least), so I'm assuming it is safe. Perhaps it is better to use suitable plugs... Any suggestions? |
#2
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
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#3
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
wrote in message ... How safe is it to fix a boiler of about 45Kg to a breeze block wall? The manual states simply to fix it on a strong wall. Breeze blocks are widely used for external wall (on the inner leave at least), so I'm assuming it is safe. Perhaps it is better to use suitable plugs... Any suggestions? The ability to support loads is not the same as the ability to hold a small fixing in place If they are breeze block and not the soft Durox blocks you should be Ok I normally cut wooden pads into breeze block walls and either skim with plaster (or set the pads flush with the wall and tile over where I am tiling anyway) I fit these pads with plugs and screws into the solid bits of the breeze block rather than the cavity bits. I also use some gripfill as a belt and braces approach but then I tend to over engineer most jobs Having said that I have fixed Combi boilers direct to breeze block in attics. There was additional support via the big balanced flue vent and the support plate at the bottom for the pipework so the boiler was not just supported on the screw fixings Tony |
#4
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
On Nov 30, 4:53 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-11-30 16:25:58 +0000, said: How safe is it to fix a boiler of about 45Kg to a breeze block wall? The manual states simply to fix it on a strong wall. Breeze blocks are widely used for external wall (on the inner leave at least), so I'm assuming it is safe. Perhaps it is better to use suitable plugs... Any suggestions? Yes you can. Keep in mind that the weight is predominantly in a downward direction. You can use heavy duty long fixings suitable for the material. I used polyester resin fixings for mine. This technique involves the use of threaded studs of a diameter suitable for the holes in the boiler mounting bracket, and of a length of (say) 100mm. Holes are drilled into the wall 2mm oversize for the studs and cleaned out. A special two part resin with one part containing mortar is injected into the holes and the studs inserted. After a suitable time (minutes to hours depending on resin and temperature, the bracket can be fixed to the wall. This method is ideal for heavy weights on breeze blocks because there is not the risk of crumbling around the fixing. Screwfix among others sell the materials Thanks, I'll check it. Meanwhile, I've forgotten a very important detail. The wall at the moment is bare...no rendering, but I've planned to use celotex insulation and plasterboard...I guess I'll have to use a proper studding frame behind the boiler and then look for longer screws (or these polyester fixings) to account for the thickness of the studs. On the other hand, it may seem a bit wacky but what about fixing the boiler straight to the bare wall and then later on fixing the insulation and plasterboard all around the boiler? The cold bridge shouldn't be an issue as the boiler is on when it's cold outside. At the moment I haven't really made my final decision...I just prefer to mount the boiler now and get the heating system going. The drywall can wait. |
#5
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
Tony says: "If they are breeze block and not the soft Durox blocks you
should be Ok" Just to clearify. The blocks in question are areated...I can't think of anything weaker than this stuff. I've bought them from a local B&Q store.... Maybe I'll have to check my terminology better next time, but I think my concerns were justified. |
#6
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
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#7
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
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#8
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
On 30 Nov, 17:29, wrote:
Tony says: "If they are breeze block and not the soft Durox blocks you should be Ok" Just to clearify. The blocks in question are areated...I can't think of anything weaker than this stuff. I've bought them from a local B&Q store.... Maybe I'll have to check my terminology better next time, but I think my concerns were justified. I always worry about aircrete blocks, but other folks on this group tell me not to worry. But I am *still* not convinced ;-) I wanted to use something else on my extension plans, but the walls would have had to be much thicker thus losing interior space, and the BCO hates "non- standard" designs. I will have to mount a boiler near the top of such a wall. I will probably mount a large piece of 18mm ply (or thick cement board if heat issues) with lots of long fixings and mount through this and into the wall behind. Or mount an comprehensive angle-iron frame and fix the boiler to that. This would give some lateral support to the wall. It will be in some time of cupboard arrangement, so I may not plasterboard the back of this. It's all very well to say most of the weight is down, but when someone slips and grabs the thing ... Good luck, Simon. |
#9
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
On Nov 30, 5:45 pm, robert wrote:
wrote: Tony says: "If they are breeze block and not the soft Durox blocks you should be Ok" Just to clearify. The blocks in question are areated...I can't think of anything weaker than this stuff. I've bought them from a local B&Q store.... Maybe I'll have to check my terminology better next time, but I think my concerns were justified. How heavy were the blocks - a 1 hand lift or 2 hand lift (breeze block) ? Another approach is to fix a wooden plate ( ply) to the wall ( same size as boiler) using several fixing and then fix boiler to plate. This way you can make sure you get good a few good fixs for the plate ( the boiler fixing holes are bound to line up with mortar joints) and fixing the boiler level will be easy. 1 hand lift for sure...and I'm not Hercules. As I said I can't think any block or brick weaker than this stuff....they were more expensive than high density blocks, apparently the aerated ones are great for thermal insulation but not very "trusty" are they? Or maybe it's just a psychologic issue. Meanwhile I'll consider the wooden plate or other similar solutions...just for a bit of piece of mind. |
#10
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
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#11
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:16:38 -0800 (PST) wrote :
On the other hand, it may seem a bit wacky but what about fixing the boiler straight to the bare wall and then later on fixing the insulation and plasterboard all around the boiler? That's likely to cause you big problems with pipe connections or case screws buried in the wall. Fixing to aerated blocks is not going to be a problem. Get the actual fixing well into the block of course. If you need longer fixings to take account of the insulation, my timber merchant sells long coach screws intended for decking which would probably be ideal for this usage. Re some of the other posts re using a backing board of ply, fixing to a combustible surface would probably fail a gas safety check. -- Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk |
#12
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
On Nov 30, 6:27 pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote: In article , writes: Tony says: "If they are breeze block and not the soft Durox blocks you should be Ok" Just to clearify. The blocks in question are areated...I can't think of anything weaker than this stuff. I've bought them from a local B&Q store.... Maybe I'll have to check my terminology better next time, but I think my concerns were justified. They're probably concrete thermal blocks. Breeze blocks were only used for a few years around 1930s. Clinker blocks were used up to around 1970 and concrete thermal blocks since then. I have seen instructions on drilling concrete thermal blocks on the manufacturers' websites. Contrary to what one might imagine, you should drill them with HSS drill bits with no hammer action, and not masonary drills. Aim to make a clean parallel-sided cylindrical hole. When screwing into a plug, I lubricate the screw thread to reduce the twisting force on the plug and reduce the chance of it turning in the hole and wrecking the grip. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] Thanks Andrew, that's very valuable information. There is more than just a block apparently...the blocks in question are made by Celcon and the type is called Solar (not 100% sure). Just checked their website...got to download some brochures. |
#13
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
On Nov 30, 6:41 pm, Tony Bryer wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:16:38 -0800 (PST) wrote : Re some of the other posts re using a backing board of ply, fixing to a combustible surface would probably fail a gas safety check. -- Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk Oh well, that's what I needed! Why the boiler manufacturers don't specify how to fix this stuff? I was really opting for the wooden board...it seems safe enough... Plasterboard is fire resistant though...maybe using a double layer (only behind the boiler) for extra solidity should do the trick. |
#14
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
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#15
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
On Nov 30, 7:17 pm, Lobster wrote:
wrote: On Nov 30, 4:53 pm, Andy Hall wrote: On 2007-11-30 16:25:58 +0000, said: How safe is it to fix a boiler of about 45Kg to a breeze block wall? The wall at the moment is bare...no rendering, but I've planned to use celotex insulation and plasterboard...I guess I'll have to use a proper studding frame behind the boiler and then look for longer screws (or these polyester fixings) to account for the thickness of the studs. How are fixing all the celotex/plasterboard - just fixing direct to the wall, or are you putting up studwork throughout? That's what I did recently; I got a fixing template from my boiler manufacturer while erecting it, so I could work out exactly where to position horizontal noggins so that they would be in the right place to attach the boiler to them. Measured and recorded the noggin height off the floor, then celotexed, and boarded the whole wall and got it skimmed. Then when the boiler installer came along, he found two parallel lines drawn on the plaster along which he could screw the boiler frame. So the boiler is supported on the studwork, not the wall behind. David Well, the way the drywall is going to be fixed is another issue which needs to be sorted. Your suggestion is to fix the studs to the wall, apply the celotex between the studs, cover with plasterboard and skim. The boiler should be fixed onto the studwork (bearing in mind of the positioning of the screws. Yet, ultimately, the loads are transmitted to the wall...or the studs rest on the floor? I guess I need to do some homework.... It semms ok though, the impact load to the aerated blocks is softened by the studs. The studs can be spread on a large surface of the wall = the load is also distribuited on a larger area. The only problem with studs is that the celotex isn't going to be continous along the wall surface. I was thinking of using aluminium studs...but these don't look very sturdy. Maybe I should use wooden studs in critical areas and aluminium ones in other. This at present is all guesswork. |
#16
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
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#17
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
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#19
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#20
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
On 2007-12-01 09:21:44 +0000, Skipweasel said:
In article , says... If you are dry lining, then you can make it simple for yourself by placing noggings in the studwork at the right position to take the boiler fixings. And if you don't know exactly where that's going to be, blob-glue a bit of tatty old ply or MDF to the back of the plasterboard - then you can screw just about anywhere and the load's spread over a large area. I've done that in several places in this house - like where I know in a year or two there's going to be a shower but the details aren't finalised. Supporting 45kg? |
#21
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:16:38 -0800, swimmydeepo wrote:
On Nov 30, 4:53 pm, Andy Hall wrote: On 2007-11-30 16:25:58 +0000, said: How safe is it to fix a boiler of about 45Kg to a breeze block wall? The manual states simply to fix it on a strong wall. Breeze blocks are widely used for external wall (on the inner leave at least), so I'm assuming it is safe. Perhaps it is better to use suitable plugs... Any suggestions? Yes you can. Keep in mind that the weight is predominantly in a downward direction. You can use heavy duty long fixings suitable for the material. I used polyester resin fixings for mine. This technique involves the use of threaded studs of a diameter suitable for the holes in the boiler mounting bracket, and of a length of (say) 100mm. Holes are drilled into the wall 2mm oversize for the studs and cleaned out. A special two part resin with one part containing mortar is injected into the holes and the studs inserted. After a suitable time (minutes to hours depending on resin and temperature, the bracket can be fixed to the wall. This method is ideal for heavy weights on breeze blocks because there is not the risk of crumbling around the fixing. Screwfix among others sell the materials Thanks, I'll check it. Meanwhile, I've forgotten a very important detail. The wall at the moment is bare...no rendering, but I've planned to use celotex insulation and plasterboard...I guess I'll have to use a proper studding frame behind the boiler and then look for longer screws (or these polyester fixings) to account for the thickness of the studs. On the other hand, it may seem a bit wacky but what about fixing the boiler straight to the bare wall and then later on fixing the insulation and plasterboard all around the boiler? The cold bridge shouldn't be an issue as the boiler is on when it's cold outside. At the moment I haven't really made my final decision...I just prefer to mount the boiler now and get the heating system going. The drywall can wait. Read the manual! What does it say about the servicing and operational clearances around the boiler casing? Competent d-i-y means reading the F**g manual. Even if the boiler requires only a few mm of clearance on the sides it may well require much more at the top. -- Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter. The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html |
#22
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mounting a boiler onto a Breeze block wall
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-12-01 09:21:44 +0000, Skipweasel said: In article , says... If you are dry lining, then you can make it simple for yourself by placing noggings in the studwork at the right position to take the boiler fixings. And if you don't know exactly where that's going to be, blob-glue a bit of tatty old ply or MDF to the back of the plasterboard - then you can screw just about anywhere and the load's spread over a large area. I've done that in several places in this house - like where I know in a year or two there's going to be a shower but the details aren't finalised. Supporting 45kg? Would be fine in shear... better than hanging a largish rad on plasterboard fixings, and I have seen that done enough times. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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