I had a new Potterton Suprima installed in February 2004. It has operated
faultlessly ever since and I'm reluctant to have it serviced using the
principle "If it ain't broke don't fix it".
The burner flames look the same as when the boiler was new (blue with small
red flickers at the top).
Bearing in mind that natural gas is extremely clean, is there really any
need for frequent routine maintenance?
I'm not bothered by the cost but concerned that careless maintence might to
more harm than good.
Any comments?

On Nov 12, 11:56 am, "Malcolm H" wrote:
I had a new Potterton Suprima installed in February 2004. It has operated
faultlessly ever since and I'm reluctant to have it serviced using the
principle "If it ain't broke don't fix it".
The burner flames look the same as when the boiler was new (blue with small
red flickers at the top).
Bearing in mind that natural gas is extremely clean, is there really any
need for frequent routine maintenance?
I'm not bothered by the cost but concerned that careless maintence might to
more harm than good.
Any comments?

I've serviced my own boiler and it hadn't been done in at least ten
years. There seemed to be nothing wrong with it and it appeared to
make no difference to the operation. My current boiler will only get
opened up if something goes wrong.

In article .com,
adder1969 wrote:
On Nov 12, 11:56 am, "Malcolm H" wrote:
I had a new Potterton Suprima installed in February 2004. It has
operated faultlessly ever since and I'm reluctant to have it serviced
using the principle "If it ain't broke don't fix it". The burner
flames look the same as when the boiler was new (blue with small red
flickers at the top). Bearing in mind that natural gas is extremely
clean, is there really any need for frequent routine maintenance? I'm
not bothered by the cost but concerned that careless maintence might
to more harm than good. Any comments?

I've serviced my own boiler and it hadn't been done in at least ten
years. There seemed to be nothing wrong with it and it appeared to
make no difference to the operation. My current boiler will only get
opened up if something goes wrong.

Indeed. Servicing suggests replacing certain parts routinely - like
filters - and cleaning where needed, adjustment etc. Once upon a time this
was a yearly job - cleaning the heat exchanger of the soot brought about
by burning town gas. But for the past 40 years or so we haven't used town
gas but the far cleaner burning natural variety.

So it comes down really to an inspection of the system rather than an
actual service or any maintenance. And in most cases the costs of an
annual inspection would be better put into a fund for repairs if the
system breaks down.

--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 13:33:32 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:



So it comes down really to an inspection of the system rather than an
actual service or any maintenance. And in most cases the costs of an
annual inspection would be better put into a fund for repairs if the
system breaks down.

Which will certainly exceed any savings made by gas boiler design efficiency
savings.

Andy

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Indeed. Servicing suggests replacing certain parts routinely - like
filters - and cleaning where needed, adjustment etc. Once upon a time this
was a yearly job - cleaning the heat exchanger of the soot brought about
by burning town gas.

Oh No.not this pillock again. Town gas put a layer of sulphur on the heat
exchanger. Natural gas produced soot. Sirry irriot!!! He must eff off.

In uk.d-i-y, Malcolm H wrote:
I had a new Potterton Suprima installed in February 2004. It has operated
faultlessly ever since and I'm reluctant to have it serviced using the
principle "If it ain't broke don't fix it".
The burner flames look the same as when the boiler was new (blue with small
red flickers at the top).
Bearing in mind that natural gas is extremely clean, is there really any
need for frequent routine maintenance?
I'm not bothered by the cost but concerned that careless maintence might to
more harm than good.

FWIW we had an Ideal Mexico 2 installed in May 1997 and my nerve has
given out at last so it's just had it's first service. The engineer said
it was just about due for cleaning but not overdue by a long way. I know
you said cost wasn't relevant to you, but it might be to other readers,
so I'll add that it took him about an hour and a half and the cost was
£35. It might have cost more except that he didn't have a new
thermocouple to fit (he said they tend to burn out and replacing an old
one was a worth-while investment), but he said he'll pop back with one.

--
Mike Barnes

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y, Malcolm H wrote:
I had a new Potterton Suprima installed in February 2004. It has operated
faultlessly ever since and I'm reluctant to have it serviced using the
principle "If it ain't broke don't fix it".
The burner flames look the same as when the boiler was new (blue with
small
red flickers at the top).
Bearing in mind that natural gas is extremely clean, is there really any
need for frequent routine maintenance?
I'm not bothered by the cost but concerned that careless maintence might
to
more harm than good.

FWIW we had an Ideal Mexico 2 installed in May 1997 and my nerve has
given out at last so it's just had it's first service. The engineer said
it was just about due for cleaning but not overdue by a long way. I know
you said cost wasn't relevant to you, but it might be to other readers,
so I'll add that it took him about an hour and a half and the cost was
£35. It might have cost more except that he didn't have a new
thermocouple to fit (he said they tend to burn out and replacing an old
one was a worth-while investment), but he said he'll pop back with one.

£35 for 1.5 hours. He doesn't make much money then.

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y, Malcolm H wrote:
I had a new Potterton Suprima installed in February 2004. It has operated
faultlessly ever since and I'm reluctant to have it serviced using the
principle "If it ain't broke don't fix it".
The burner flames look the same as when the boiler was new (blue with
small
red flickers at the top).
Bearing in mind that natural gas is extremely clean, is there really any
need for frequent routine maintenance?
I'm not bothered by the cost but concerned that careless maintence might
to
more harm than good.

FWIW we had an Ideal Mexico 2 installed in May 1997 and my nerve has
given out at last so it's just had it's first service. The engineer said
it was just about due for cleaning but not overdue by a long way. I know
you said cost wasn't relevant to you, but it might be to other readers,
so I'll add that it took him about an hour and a half and the cost was
£35. It might have cost more except that he didn't have a new
thermocouple to fit (he said they tend to burn out and replacing an old
one was a worth-while investment), but he said he'll pop back with one.

Thermocouples seem to be the most vulnerable parts. They were the only ones
we've had to replace (ourselves) in our first boiler which we installed in
1984 and was replaced, still working, last year.

Mary

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:59:52 +0000, Mary Fisher wrote:

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y, Malcolm H wrote:
I had a new Potterton Suprima installed in February 2004. It has operated
faultlessly ever since and I'm reluctant to have it serviced using the
principle "If it ain't broke don't fix it".
The burner flames look the same as when the boiler was new (blue with
small
red flickers at the top).
Bearing in mind that natural gas is extremely clean, is there really any
need for frequent routine maintenance?
I'm not bothered by the cost but concerned that careless maintence might
to
more harm than good.

FWIW we had an Ideal Mexico 2 installed in May 1997 and my nerve has
given out at last so it's just had it's first service. The engineer said
it was just about due for cleaning but not overdue by a long way. I know
you said cost wasn't relevant to you, but it might be to other readers,
so I'll add that it took him about an hour and a half and the cost was
£35. It might have cost more except that he didn't have a new
thermocouple to fit (he said they tend to burn out and replacing an old
one was a worth-while investment), but he said he'll pop back with one.

Thermocouples seem to be the most vulnerable parts. They were the only ones
we've had to replace (ourselves) in our first boiler which we installed in
1984 and was replaced, still working, last year.

In my experience the life span of a thermocouple is quite variable.
Obviously the pilot flame should be the right size and if it's too big and
heats the tip so it's red hot that will shorten its life.

Boilers with thermocouples and permanent pilots cost many times the cost
of a thermocouple each year in wasted gas.




--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On 12 Nov, 19:15, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Mike Barnes" wrote in message

...





In uk.d-i-y, Malcolm H wrote:
I had a new Potterton Suprima installed in February 2004. It has operated
faultlessly ever since and I'm reluctant to have it serviced using the
principle "If it ain't broke don't fix it".
The burner flames look the same as when the boiler was new (blue with
small
red flickers at the top).
Bearing in mind that natural gas is extremely clean, is there really any
need for frequent routine maintenance?
I'm not bothered by the cost but concerned that careless maintence might
to
more harm than good.

FWIW we had an Ideal Mexico 2 installed in May 1997 and my nerve has
given out at last so it's just had it's first service. The engineer said
it was just about due for cleaning but not overdue by a long way. I know
you said cost wasn't relevant to you, but it might be to other readers,
so I'll add that it took him about an hour and a half and the cost was
£35. It might have cost more except that he didn't have a new
thermocouple to fit (he said they tend to burn out and replacing an old
one was a worth-while investment), but he said he'll pop back with one.

£35 for 1.5 hours. He doesn't make much money then.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

...1.5 hours to clean? He's not very fast either! It would have been
more but he didn't have the thermocouple.

"adder1969" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 12 Nov, 19:15, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Mike Barnes" wrote in message

...





In uk.d-i-y, Malcolm H wrote:
I had a new Potterton Suprima installed in February 2004. It has
operated
faultlessly ever since and I'm reluctant to have it serviced using the
principle "If it ain't broke don't fix it".
The burner flames look the same as when the boiler was new (blue with
small
red flickers at the top).
Bearing in mind that natural gas is extremely clean, is there really any
need for frequent routine maintenance?
I'm not bothered by the cost but concerned that careless maintence might
to
more harm than good.

FWIW we had an Ideal Mexico 2 installed in May 1997 and my nerve has
given out at last so it's just had it's first service. The engineer said
it was just about due for cleaning but not overdue by a long way. I know
you said cost wasn't relevant to you, but it might be to other readers,
so I'll add that it took him about an hour and a half and the cost was
£35. It might have cost more except that he didn't have a new
thermocouple to fit (he said they tend to burn out and replacing an old
one was a worth-while investment), but he said he'll pop back with one.

£35 for 1.5 hours. He doesn't make much money then.- Hide quoted text -


..1.5 hours to clean? He's not very fast either!

He is very, very cheap.

In article ,
"Malcolm H" writes:
I had a new Potterton Suprima installed in February 2004. It has operated
faultlessly ever since and I'm reluctant to have it serviced using the
principle "If it ain't broke don't fix it".
The burner flames look the same as when the boiler was new (blue with small
red flickers at the top).
Bearing in mind that natural gas is extremely clean, is there really any
need for frequent routine maintenance?
I'm not bothered by the cost but concerned that careless maintence might to
more harm than good.
Any comments?

My parents have a Potterton Suprima installed in 2000.
I have checked the CO/CO2 ratio a few times, but it's miles
off needing a service from that point of view -- in 3 years
it's increased only from 0.00064 to 0.00077.

When my Potterton Profile got to at least 7 years since
servicing (and probably longer as I have no record of when
the previous owners had it done), I decided to open and
clean it even though it was not showing any need for it.
There was no visible dirt inside other than the odd insect
which had been drawn into the air intake and setting
harmlessly out of the way. The cleaning took the CO/CO2
ratio from 0.00029 down to 0.00026, and by any stretch of
the imagination, wasn't worth doing verses the risk of
damaging something in the process.

Under British Gas's operation procedures, neither of these
boilers would have been serviced following an annual check
at these CO/CO2 ratios. Unless you have the ability to
measure the CO/CO2 ratio, you can't tell this though.
When a boiler starts burning poorly, it will deteriorate
very quickly -- the final stage isn't linear.

It is very important that open-flued boilers are serviced
annually, as the consequences of poor combustion, particularly
if caused by poor flue draw, are likely to be fatal.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Malcolm H" writes:
I had a new Potterton Suprima installed in February 2004. It has operated
faultlessly ever since and I'm reluctant to have it serviced using the
principle "If it ain't broke don't fix it".
The burner flames look the same as when the boiler was new (blue with
small
red flickers at the top).
Bearing in mind that natural gas is extremely clean, is there really any
need for frequent routine maintenance?
I'm not bothered by the cost but concerned that careless maintence might
to
more harm than good.
Any comments?

My parents have a Potterton Suprima installed in 2000.
I have checked the CO/CO2 ratio a few times, but it's miles
off needing a service from that point of view -- in 3 years
it's increased only from 0.00064 to 0.00077.

When my Potterton Profile got to at least 7 years since
servicing (and probably longer as I have no record of when
the previous owners had it done), I decided to open and
clean it even though it was not showing any need for it.
There was no visible dirt inside other than the odd insect
which had been drawn into the air intake and setting
harmlessly out of the way. The cleaning took the CO/CO2
ratio from 0.00029 down to 0.00026, and by any stretch of
the imagination, wasn't worth doing verses the risk of
damaging something in the process.

Under British Gas's operation procedures, neither of these
boilers would have been serviced following an annual check
at these CO/CO2 ratios. Unless you have the ability to
measure the CO/CO2 ratio, you can't tell this though.
When a boiler starts burning poorly, it will deteriorate
very quickly -- the final stage isn't linear.

It is very important that open-flued boilers are serviced
annually, as the consequences of poor combustion, particularly
if caused by poor flue draw, are likely to be fatal.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Very interesting! Can you recommend a CO/CO2 ratio tester suitable for
domestic use?

In article ,
"Malcolm H" writes:
Very interesting! Can you recommend a CO/CO2 ratio tester suitable for
domestic use?

I use a Kane 250. You have to do the ratio calculation yourself.
(I believe the Kane 400 does it for you).

For just looking after your own boiler, buying a flue gas analyser
isn't going to be worth it -- they're too expensive. Also bare in
mind that you'll have to spend about £200 every 2 years to keep
it working and calibrated.

You can hire them.

Actually, just to add to my earlier post, I also look after a
condensing boiler -- a Keston Celcius 25. This does need more
attention than the non-condensing boilers. This falls into 2
categories: extra complexity such as a condensate drain to
become blocked or a flue pipe which isn't waterproof, and
newer technology teething problems, such as melting ignition
electrodes. I think there's much less chance you could run a
condensing boiler problem-free for 10 years without servicing.
Also its CO2 levels drift more between servicing than conventional
boilers, although I somehow doubt many CORGI service engineers
would go to the same lengths I do to adjust that for optimal
operation.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Malcolm H" writes:
Very interesting! Can you recommend a CO/CO2 ratio tester suitable for
domestic use?

I use a Kane 250. You have to do the ratio calculation yourself.
(I believe the Kane 400 does it for you).

For just looking after your own boiler, buying a flue gas analyser
isn't going to be worth it -- they're too expensive. Also bare in
mind that you'll have to spend about £200 every 2 years to keep
it working and calibrated.

You can hire them.

Actually, just to add to my earlier post, I also look after a
condensing boiler -- a Keston Celcius 25. This does need more
attention than the non-condensing boilers. This falls into 2
categories: extra complexity such as a condensate drain to
become blocked or a flue pipe which isn't waterproof, and
newer technology teething problems, such as melting ignition
electrodes. I think there's much less chance you could run a
condensing boiler problem-free for 10 years without servicing.
Also its CO2 levels drift more between servicing than conventional
boilers, although I somehow doubt many CORGI service engineers
would go to the same lengths I do to adjust that for optimal
operation.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Thank you Andrew. As you say a bit expensive!

Do you think a simple dismantle and clean every 7 years or so should be
sufficient for a Potterton Suprima?

In message , Malcolm H
writes

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
. ..
In article ,
"Malcolm H" writes:
Very interesting! Can you recommend a CO/CO2 ratio tester suitable for
domestic use?

I use a Kane 250. You have to do the ratio calculation yourself.
(I believe the Kane 400 does it for you).

For just looking after your own boiler, buying a flue gas analyser
isn't going to be worth it -- they're too expensive. Also bare in
mind that you'll have to spend about £200 every 2 years to keep
it working and calibrated.

You can hire them.

Actually, just to add to my earlier post, I also look after a
condensing boiler -- a Keston Celcius 25. This does need more
attention than the non-condensing boilers. This falls into 2
categories: extra complexity such as a condensate drain to
become blocked or a flue pipe which isn't waterproof, and
newer technology teething problems, such as melting ignition
electrodes. I think there's much less chance you could run a
condensing boiler problem-free for 10 years without servicing.
Also its CO2 levels drift more between servicing than conventional
boilers, although I somehow doubt many CORGI service engineers
would go to the same lengths I do to adjust that for optimal
operation.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Thank you Andrew. As you say a bit expensive!

Do you think a simple dismantle and clean every 7 years or so should be
sufficient for a Potterton Suprima?


Dismantle and dispose of, surely


--
geoff