I'm renovating a 1960's bathroom that at present has no equipotential
bonding. I understand the requirements but there are certain
practical difficulties and I wonder if anyone has any solutions.
1. The new chrome towel radiator has nowhere to attach a clamp, will
connections to the pipes suffice and considering the aesthetics how
close to the rad do these have to be.
2. I will be using braided tap connectors. There is no pipe to
attach the strap on the tap side and I assume I can't rely on a
connection to the pipes at the other end of the tap connector. What
can I do here?

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:34:36 -0700, mused:

I'm renovating a 1960's bathroom that at present has no equipotential
bonding. I understand the requirements

Clearly you don't.

but there are certain
practical difficulties and I wonder if anyone has any solutions.
1. The new chrome towel radiator has nowhere to attach a clamp, will
connections to the pipes suffice and considering the aesthetics how
close to the rad do these have to be.
2. I will be using braided tap connectors. There is no pipe to
attach the strap on the tap side and I assume I can't rely on a
connection to the pipes at the other end of the tap connector. What
can I do here?

As I mentioned above, lacking in the understanding department.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:34:36 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

I'm renovating a 1960's bathroom that at present has no equipotential
bonding. I understand the requirements but there are certain
practical difficulties and I wonder if anyone has any solutions.
1. The new chrome towel radiator has nowhere to attach a clamp, will
connections to the pipes suffice and considering the aesthetics how
close to the rad do these have to be.

To add to what has already been said:

You don't say whether it has an electric heating element or not.
This makes a difference.

If it does have an electric heating element then, provided the flex
from the cord outlet to the heater is short and likely to remain
reliable the supplementary bonding conductor can be terminated in
the cord outlet and the protective conductor in the flex used.
Personally I don't like relying on the protective conductor and
generally install a proper bonding cable, but the regulations allow
one to rely on the protective conductor.

If it doesn't have an electric heating element in it then, if the
pipes to/from it provide reliable metal to metal contact and these
are bonded that is enough.

2. I will be using braided tap connectors. There is no pipe to
attach the strap on the tap side and I assume I can't rely on a
connection to the pipes at the other end of the tap connector. What
can I do here?

Is the tap likely to introduce a potential? A tap on a basin is
standing in free air and so is unlikely to introduce a potential,
just like the little bit of metal in the plug hole.

Potentials are only likely to be introduced by the pipes which run
to the taps. These pipes run outside the room and may be slowly
melting the insulation on a carelessly installed cable. That is why
pipes are bonded.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:34:36 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

I'm renovating a 1960's bathroom that at present has no
equipotential
bonding. I understand the requirements but there are certain
practical difficulties and I wonder if anyone has any solutions.
1. The new chrome towel radiator has nowhere to attach a clamp,
will
connections to the pipes suffice and considering the aesthetics how
close to the rad do these have to be.

To add to what has already been said:

You don't say whether it has an electric heating element or not.
This makes a difference.

If it does have an electric heating element then, provided the flex
from the cord outlet to the heater is short and likely to remain
reliable the supplementary bonding conductor can be terminated in
the cord outlet and the protective conductor in the flex used.
Personally I don't like relying on the protective conductor and
generally install a proper bonding cable, but the regulations allow
one to rely on the protective conductor.

If it doesn't have an electric heating element in it then, if the
pipes to/from it provide reliable metal to metal contact and these
are bonded that is enough.

What, even were the pipes are plastic?...


2. I will be using braided tap connectors. There is no pipe to
attach the strap on the tap side and I assume I can't rely on a
connection to the pipes at the other end of the tap connector. What
can I do here?

Is the tap likely to introduce a potential? A tap on a basin is
standing in free air and so is unlikely to introduce a potential,
just like the little bit of metal in the plug hole.

Potentials are only likely to be introduced by the pipes which run
to the taps. These pipes run outside the room and may be slowly
melting the insulation on a carelessly installed cable. That is why
pipes are bonded.


Well wouldn't that also be true for the towel rail then, if it's not
electrically connected, if there can be a potential at the towel rail
(especially if plumbed with plastic pipe) then surely the same applies
to the taps?...

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:09:56 +0100 someone who may be ":Jerry:"
wrote this:-

If it doesn't have an electric heating element in it then, if the
pipes to/from it provide reliable metal to metal contact and these
are bonded that is enough.

What, even were the pipes are plastic?...

Plastic pipes don't provide reliable metal to metal contact.

Well wouldn't that also be true for the towel rail then, if it's not
electrically connected, if there can be a potential at the towel rail
(especially if plumbed with plastic pipe) then surely the same applies
to the taps?...

A towel rail which has plastic pipes going to/from it is different
to one with metal pipes going to/from it.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:09:56 +0100 someone who may be ":Jerry:"
wrote this:-

If it doesn't have an electric heating element in it then, if the
pipes to/from it provide reliable metal to metal contact and these
are bonded that is enough.

What, even were the pipes are plastic?...

Plastic pipes don't provide reliable metal to metal contact.
snip

Yes, and if they are not visible (IOW hidden) how would the OP know
that he has them [1], just assuming like you did is not good enough,
assume that the pipes do NOT provide bonding, not that they will just
because what is visible is metal.

[1] just because the pipes from the boiler and the pipes coming
thought the floor/wall boards are metal doesn't mean that the pipes
in-between are.

:Jerry: wrote:

Yes, and if they are not visible (IOW hidden) how would the OP know
that he has them [1], just assuming like you did is not good enough,
assume that the pipes do NOT provide bonding, not that they will just
because what is visible is metal.

[1] just because the pipes from the boiler and the pipes coming
thought the floor/wall boards are metal doesn't mean that the pipes
in-between are.

If they are all plastic, or plastic for all but the visible tails that
connect to the rad/tap/whatever, then there is no requirement to bond.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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\================================================= ================/

On Jul 13, 10:37 pm, Lurch wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:34:36 -0700, mused:

I'm renovating a 1960's bathroom that at present has no equipotential
bonding. I understand the requirements

Clearly you don't.

but there are certain
practical difficulties and I wonder if anyone has any solutions.
1. The new chrome towel radiator has nowhere to attach a clamp, will
connections to the pipes suffice and considering the aesthetics how
close to the rad do these have to be.
2. I will be using braided tap connectors. There is no pipe to
attach the strap on the tap side and I assume I can't rely on a
connection to the pipes at the other end of the tap connector. What
can I do here?

As I mentioned above, lacking in the understanding department.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

Stuart

I didn't mean to imply I considered myself as having an understanding
of all matters electrical merely that as someone with no bonding in
his bathroom understood that there was a need for it.

David

Thanks for the advice. Sorry I was vague on the non electric towel
rail.

I think this has allayed my fear which was in the event of a fault and
better connection on one exposed piece of metal than another to the
equipotential bonding that a difference in potential could still
exist. (takes cover in case of a possible further assault by Stuart).

Dave

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 06:21:01 -0700, mused:

(takes cover in case of a possible further assault by Stuart).

Nah, think you've learnt your lesson now.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On Jul 14, 11:23 am, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"David Hansen" wrote in message

... On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:09:56 +0100 someone who may be ":Jerry:"
wrote this:-

If it doesn't have an electric heating element in it then, if the
pipes to/from it provide reliable metal to metal contact and these
are bonded that is enough.

What, even were the pipes are plastic?...

Plastic pipes don't provide reliable metal to metal contact.

snip

Yes, and if they are not visible (IOW hidden) how would the OP know
that he has them [1], just assuming like you did is not good enough,
assume that the pipes do NOT provide bonding, not that they will just
because what is visible is metal.

[1] just because the pipes from the boiler and the pipes coming
thought the floor/wall boards are metal doesn't mean that the pipes
in-between are.


Which bit of "if the pipes to/from it provide reliable metal to metal
contact *and* these are bonded that is enough." (my emphasis) don't
you understand? There's no unsafe assumption, just a requirement that
the reader understands basic English.

If the pipes to/from the rail (not the pipes half a house away, but
those *to/from* the rail) *are* bonded then the rail itself doesn't
need bonding due to the reliable contact between the rail and the
pipes.

If the pipes to/from the rail are not bonded or it is not clear that
they are bonded then that is obviously *not* enough and further
investigation is required.

MBQ

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 14, 11:23 am, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"David Hansen" wrote in message

... On Sat, 14 Jul
2007 10:09:56 +0100 someone who may be ":Jerry:"
wrote this:-

If it doesn't have an electric heating element in it then, if
the
pipes to/from it provide reliable metal to metal contact and
these
are bonded that is enough.

What, even were the pipes are plastic?...

Plastic pipes don't provide reliable metal to metal contact.

snip

Yes, and if they are not visible (IOW hidden) how would the OP know
that he has them [1], just assuming like you did is not good
enough,
assume that the pipes do NOT provide bonding, not that they will
just
because what is visible is metal.

[1] just because the pipes from the boiler and the pipes coming
thought the floor/wall boards are metal doesn't mean that the pipes
in-between are.


Which bit of "if the pipes to/from it provide reliable metal to
metal
contact *and* these are bonded that is enough." (my emphasis) don't
you understand? There's no unsafe assumption, just a requirement
that
the reader understands basic English.

Something you seem not able to do yourself!


If the pipes to/from the rail (not the pipes half a house away, but
those *to/from* the rail) *are* bonded then the rail itself doesn't
need bonding due to the reliable contact between the rail and the
pipes.

If the pipes to/from the rail are not bonded or it is not clear that
they are bonded then that is obviously *not* enough and further
investigation is required.


Which is what I said, admittedly in a roundabout way.