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Hi

Not sure if this is the best group but does anyone know a UK dealer for the
above - they are at www.roperatchet.com? I remember them, or something very
similar, in Do-It-All, yes before it became Focus DIY, back in the late
90's but didn't have a use for one then. Now that I need one none of the
DIY chains seem to have them and google doesn't seem to list any UK sites
selling them.

I guess various pulley and rope or ratchet straps are out there but none
will do what this seems able to do.

Thanx

Jay
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jay Hendry wrote:

Hi

Not sure if this is the best group but does anyone know a UK dealer
for the above - they are at www.roperatchet.com? I remember them, or
something very similar, in Do-It-All, yes before it became Focus DIY,
back in the late 90's but didn't have a use for one then. Now that I
need one none of the DIY chains seem to have them and google doesn't
seem to list any UK sites selling them.

I guess various pulley and rope or ratchet straps are out there but
none will do what this seems able to do.

Thanx

Jay


Looks interesting - never seen one like that! Sorry, I've no idea where to
get one.

What do you want to use it for? Whereas it looks easy to use, you can only
get as much tension in the rope as you can generate with a direct pull -
which may or may not be enough. On the other hand, the more common web strap
ratchets use a high lever ratio, so you can wind in much more tension.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Jay Hendry wrote:
Hi

Not sure if this is the best group but does anyone know a UK dealer for the
above - they are at www.roperatchet.com? I remember them, or something very
similar, in Do-It-All, yes before it became Focus DIY, back in the late
90's but didn't have a use for one then. Now that I need one none of the
DIY chains seem to have them and google doesn't seem to list any UK sites
selling them.

I guess various pulley and rope or ratchet straps are out there but none
will do what this seems able to do.

Thanx

Jay


Why not try a Midshipman's Hitch?

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Jay Hendry wrote:

Not sure if this is the best group but does anyone know a UK dealer for the
above - they are at www.roperatchet.com? I remember them, or something very
similar, in Do-It-All, yes before it became Focus DIY, back in the late
90's but didn't have a use for one then. Now that I need one none of the
DIY chains seem to have them and google doesn't seem to list any UK sites
selling them.


It looks exactly like the ratchet block my daughter has on her sailing
dinghy (except for the big hook at the top) - maybe you need to be
looking in the sailing area?

David
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Jay Hendry wrote in
. 143.37:

Hi

Not sure if this is the best group but does anyone know a UK dealer
for the above - they are at www.roperatchet.com? I remember them, or
something very similar, in Do-It-All, yes before it became Focus DIY,
back in the late 90's but didn't have a use for one then. Now that I
need one none of the DIY chains seem to have them and google doesn't
seem to list any UK sites selling them.

I guess various pulley and rope or ratchet straps are out there but
none will do what this seems able to do.

Thanx

Jay


OK cheers for the ideas - I'm not looking to use it to tie something down
but to hoist some furniture through a loft hatch. Now the hatch is not
much bigger than the wardrobe, that I've "been told" must go up there so
I figured if I get this attached above the hatch I can pull on the rope
and push up from underneath on the ladder and if I need to take a break
then the ratchet will lock it out.

I'll take a look at an online chandlers in the meantime.

Thanx

Jay


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Lobster wrote:
Jay Hendry wrote:

Not sure if this is the best group but does anyone know a UK dealer
for the above - they are at www.roperatchet.com? I remember them, or
something very similar, in Do-It-All, yes before it became Focus DIY,
back in the late 90's but didn't have a use for one then. Now that I
need one none of the DIY chains seem to have them and google doesn't
seem to list any UK sites selling them.


It looks exactly like the ratchet block my daughter has on her sailing
dinghy (except for the big hook at the top) - maybe you need to be
looking in the sailing area?

David


Sailing dinghy ratchets are a bit different - the roperatchet looks like
it is designed to lock off and hold a load(though i don't know that I'd
want to rely on it), a sailing dinghy ratchet block is designed for a
temporary hold only, even if combined with a cleat:

http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/Produ...1-c9c2c85f0edd

You should not use it in any application where it is critical that the
load remains locked off.

It all depends on what the OP wants to use it for - if it's not critical
that the load remains locked off then you could use this form of block
and cleat combined with a hook:

http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/Produ...1-c9c2c85f0edd

Cheers

Chris

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Jay Hendry wrote:

OK cheers for the ideas - I'm not looking to use it to tie something down
but to hoist some furniture through a loft hatch. Now the hatch is not
much bigger than the wardrobe, that I've "been told" must go up there so
I figured if I get this attached above the hatch I can pull on the rope
and push up from underneath on the ladder and if I need to take a break
then the ratchet will lock it out.

I'll take a look at an online chandlers in the meantime.

Thanx

Jay


I would not rely on a sailing dinghy ratchet and cleat if I was standing
underneath the load as you describe. With one person using the rope and
one person guiding the wardrobe then maybe, but not if anyone is going
to be below the load.

Personally I'd look to hire a chain hoist or similar from your local
hire shop, along with properly rated strops.

Cheers

Chris

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Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jay Hendry wrote:

Hi

Not sure if this is the best group but does anyone know a UK dealer
for the above - they are at www.roperatchet.com?


A Petzl Ascender would do the job, eg eBay 120133093026. There's a few used
ones listed on ebay, you'd probably get one for a tenner. They're built to
hang people off, and very widely trusted to do that, so you know the
quality's there.





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Jay Hendry pretended :
Jay Hendry wrote in
. 143.37:



OK cheers for the ideas - I'm not looking to use it to tie something down
but to hoist some furniture through a loft hatch. Now the hatch is not
much bigger than the wardrobe, that I've "been told" must go up there so
I figured if I get this attached above the hatch I can pull on the rope
and push up from underneath on the ladder and if I need to take a break
then the ratchet will lock it out.


For the same job, I just use a pulley and a rope. The pulley is
attached to a rigid plate which itself is U shaped, with a bolt passing
through the top of the U and a roof beam. Remember it has to take a
little more than double the weight you are lifting, plus shock loading.
It takes the weight of the item, plus your own weight pulling down on
the rope.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk


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The message
from "Steve Walker" contains these words:

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jay Hendry wrote:

Hi

Not sure if this is the best group but does anyone know a UK dealer
for the above - they are at www.roperatchet.com?


A Petzl Ascender would do the job, eg eBay 120133093026. There's a
few used
ones listed on ebay, you'd probably get one for a tenner. They're
built to
hang people off, and very widely trusted to do that, so you know the
quality's there.


I don't think an ascender would suit. They are just the modern
equivalent of the old fashioned prusik loop and, like the prusik loop,
you need to take the load off in order to move up the rope.

The roperatchet is a Merkin product and won't necessarily have an
importer in the UK.

I have an old ratchet operated puller that I have used as a car engine
hoist but I can't find the instructions and after 20 years or more that
might not still be available. The label is uninformative with no note of
the manufacturer. It was apparently called a Mini Hand Puller but an
internet search didn't find that particular product.

In the situation described by the OP the puller would have to be
operated from above.

What would also work would be my even more ancient pulley hoist which
would need to be tied off in order to take a break. The other
disadvantage of that is because of the 6/1 ratio you can't actually lift
anything very far without supporting the load and reducing the
connecting rope. The puller OTOH, even if used with the wire doubled to
give a 2/1 lifting ratio has more than sufficient wire to lift through
one storey.

--
Roger Chapman


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Roger wrote:
The message
from "Steve Walker" contains these words:


A Petzl Ascender would do the job, eg eBay 120133093026.


I don't think an ascender would suit. They are just the modern
equivalent of the old fashioned prusik loop and, like the prusik loop,
you need to take the load off in order to move up the rope.


As I understood the OP's request, he wanted a one-way pulley - something
which would take and hold the strain. An ascender would fulfill that
perfectly, if deployed correctly, and is widely used to protect both
load-hauling and humans during cave/mountain exploration. The conventional
technique would be to run the rope through a karabiner or pulley, and attach
the ascender to the "pull" side, so that it provides a ratchet effect.

I suspect you'll need to think of this as an 'upside down' location, for
that to make any sense at all. The key point is that you don't have to
relieve the load - it self-adjusts as the free end of the rope is pulled
through it. Quite hard to describe, and I can't see a photo on google
unfortunately.


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On 24 Jun, 20:17, Jay Hendry wrote:

I guess various pulley and rope or ratchet straps are out there but none
will do what this seems able to do.


Learn to tie a carter's hitch.

If you do use one of these mis-begotten pieces of crap, then use a
NYLON rope through it, with a bit of stretch to it. Cheap polyester or
polypropylene has too little elasticity in it. Get the slightest flex
in your load or chassis points over a bump and a simple ratchet like
this goes loose instantly, dropping your load off onto the road. A
traditional rope hitch has much more elasticity to it, even tied in
inelastic rope, so it's lless prone to this kind of loosening.

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On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:55:45 +0000, Jay Hendry wrote:

Jay Hendry wrote in
. 143.37:

Hi

Not sure if this is the best group but does anyone know a UK dealer for
the above - they are at www.roperatchet.com? I remember them, or
something very similar, in Do-It-All, yes before it became Focus DIY,
back in the late 90's but didn't have a use for one then. Now that I
need one none of the DIY chains seem to have them and google doesn't
seem to list any UK sites selling them.

I guess various pulley and rope or ratchet straps are out there but none
will do what this seems able to do.

Thanx

Jay


OK cheers for the ideas - I'm not looking to use it to tie something down
but to hoist some furniture through a loft hatch. Now the hatch is not
much bigger than the wardrobe, that I've "been told" must go up there so I
figured if I get this attached above the hatch I can pull on the rope and
push up from underneath on the ladder and if I need to take a break then
the ratchet will lock it out.

I'll take a look at an online chandlers in the meantime.

Thanx

Jay


===================================
A 'Haltrac engine hoist' would probably suit your purpose but you would
almost certainly have to buy one second-hand (Ebay?). It would certainly
take the weight of a small wardrobe and it does lock. It uses nylon cord
so can be extended to give greater lift.

The easiest solution would be a builder's gin wheel but you would need to
tie off the rope from below possibly to a bannister or a piece of 3" x 2"
timber in a door frame.

I would suggest that you check the strength of your roof timbers if you
intend using them as an anchor point for your hoist. As far as I know roof
timbers are not intended to take any great strain such as attaching a
hoist.

Cic.
--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

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Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Jay Hendry pretended :
Jay Hendry wrote in
. 143.37:



OK cheers for the ideas - I'm not looking to use it to tie something
down but to hoist some furniture through a loft hatch. Now the hatch
is not much bigger than the wardrobe, that I've "been told" must go
up there so I figured if I get this attached above the hatch I can
pull on the rope and push up from underneath on the ladder and if I
need to take a break then the ratchet will lock it out.



Yeah, an ascender is designed for exactly that function, and will definitely
work.

But... I did the same thing recently (with an unassembled 60kg snooker
table only a few inches smaller than the hatch opening) and found it easiest
to use a hand-cranked winch (eg ebay 130127601753).

I temporarily fixed a length of 4x2 across 4 joists to spread the load above
the hatch - needs to be as high as possible, if you want to lift tall loads
right through the opening. Also consider removing the loft ladder. It
was then really easy to lift the box in tiny increments, whilst various
family members guided it from beneath.


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The message
from "Steve Walker" contains these words:

A Petzl Ascender would do the job, eg eBay 120133093026.


I don't think an ascender would suit. They are just the modern
equivalent of the old fashioned prusik loop and, like the prusik loop,
you need to take the load off in order to move up the rope.


As I understood the OP's request, he wanted a one-way pulley - something
which would take and hold the strain. An ascender would fulfill that
perfectly, if deployed correctly, and is widely used to protect both
load-hauling and humans during cave/mountain exploration. The
conventional
technique would be to run the rope through a karabiner or pulley, and
attach
the ascender to the "pull" side, so that it provides a ratchet effect.


I suspect you'll need to think of this as an 'upside down' location, for
that to make any sense at all. The key point is that you don't have to
relieve the load - it self-adjusts as the free end of the rope is pulled
through it. Quite hard to describe, and I can't see a photo on google
unfortunately.


If I understand you correctly that would work but what would you tie it
off to? You need a secure belay and houses typically don't have suitable
threads low down in the vicinity of the loft hatch. I wouldn't want to
trust a balustrade in such circumstances. The roperachet works at the
suspension point, not at ground level.

--
Roger Chapman


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Roger wrote:
The message
from "Steve Walker" contains these words:

A Petzl Ascender would do the job, eg eBay 120133093026.


I don't think an ascender would suit. They are just the modern
equivalent of the old fashioned prusik loop and, like the prusik
loop, you need to take the load off in order to move up the rope.


As I understood the OP's request, he wanted a one-way pulley -
something which would take and hold the strain. An ascender would
fulfill that perfectly, if deployed correctly, and is widely used to
protect both load-hauling and humans during cave/mountain
exploration. The conventional
technique would be to run the rope through a karabiner or pulley, and
attach
the ascender to the "pull" side, so that it provides a ratchet
effect.


I suspect you'll need to think of this as an 'upside down' location,
for that to make any sense at all. The key point is that you don't
have to relieve the load - it self-adjusts as the free end of the
rope is pulled through it. Quite hard to describe, and I can't see
a photo on google unfortunately.


If I understand you correctly that would work but what would you tie
it off to? You need a secure belay and houses typically don't have
suitable threads low down in the vicinity of the loft hatch. I
wouldn't want to trust a balustrade in such circumstances. The
roperachet works at the suspension point, not at ground level.


Heh, we're rapidly discovering the limits of textual discourse.... )

The ascender *is* located at the suspension point. Have a look at ebay
120133093026 for an example, and relate the following rig to the orientation
of that picture.

1 - Pull down the spring cam and slip a rope into the open sleeve on the
left.

2 - Clip a karabiner through the pair of holes at the top, keeping the rope
to the left of the 'bar' this creates.

3 - Clip another karabiner to the suspension point, preferably with a pulley
(http://tinyurl.com/28ac9y).

4 - Run the load rope through the suspension karabiner or pulley, with the
ascender below.

5 - Clip the first karabiner (step 2) into the second karabiner.

Hopefully you can now see in your mental picture that a ratchet effect is
created. Hauling on the free end of the rope will pull it through the
ascender easily, as the cam opens in that direction. When you stop
hauling, the load weight is held by the ascender as it won't allow the rope
to pass in the reverse direction.

One of the drawbacks to this system is that there's about 3-6" of free play,
as the metal components bunch together and stretch out under different load
states. Minimising that work-wasting free play is the subject of many pub
debates and climbing wall experiments.







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On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 22:30:42 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

... They're built to
hang people off


thought they'd abolished that ...

--
John Stumbles

Procrastinate now!
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The message
from "Steve Walker" contains these words:

Hopefully you can now see in your mental picture that a ratchet effect is
created. Hauling on the free end of the rope will pull it through the
ascender easily, as the cam opens in that direction. When you stop
hauling, the load weight is held by the ascender as it won't allow the rope
to pass in the reverse direction.


I take your word for it that it works OK. The mental picture wouldn't
gel. I had to sketch it out to see what it entailed. [Old age dimming
the little grey cells. :-)]

One thing no one appears to have touched on is what happens should the
object being lifted jam on the way through the hatch. Unless there is
already someone else in the loft the situation would appear terminal as
there is no way to release the ascender (or for that matter the rope
ratchet that sparked this thread).

With someone already in the loft why use an indirect method that doesn't
have the advantage of magnifying the pulling force? If the object is
light enough to be lifted with a direct pull then a waist belay (capstan
effect round the waist) should give sufficient braking effect to rest
the arms while providing a position in which to lift from above and, if
terminal tiredness does intervene, allow a controlled return to square
one. (Leather gloves might be advisable).

--
Roger Chapman
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Roger wrote:


One thing no one appears to have touched on is what happens should the
object being lifted jam on the way through the hatch. Unless there is
already someone else in the loft the situation would appear terminal
as there is no way to release the ascender (or for that matter the
rope ratchet that sparked this thread).


That occurred to me too, but I didn't get round to commenting on it.

Another thing is that if it's a tall wardrobe and if it only just goes
through the hatch, they'll need a *lot* of headroom immediately above the
hatch - because they probably won't be able to lean it over to miss the roof
timbers.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
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monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!


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"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Roger wrote:


One thing no one appears to have touched on is what happens should the
object being lifted jam on the way through the hatch. Unless there is
already someone else in the loft the situation would appear terminal
as there is no way to release the ascender (or for that matter the
rope ratchet that sparked this thread).


That occurred to me too, but I didn't get round to commenting on it.

Another thing is that if it's a tall wardrobe and if it only just goes
through the hatch, they'll need a *lot* of headroom immediately above the
hatch - because they probably won't be able to lean it over to miss the
roof timbers.
--
Cheers,
Roger


When i had to get a large galvanized iron water tank out of my loft I looked
at all sorts of options with rope and pulleys from above and below. All
failed the test of 'would I want to stand under this precariously supported
heavy thing'. In the end a borrowed chain hoist was used, and was both
controllable and safe (I had a fortunately positioned and strong roof joist
over the hatch).

Andy


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