A standard screw in energy saver bulb has failed (not so sure about
the long life of these!). Unfortunately in unscrewing it (wall
mounted fixture), one of the glass tubes has broken. For the moment
I've abandoned the operation with the bulb still in place!

Any guidance on how I should progress please?

Thanks

Rob

robgraham wrote:
A standard screw in energy saver bulb has failed (not so sure about
the long life of these!). Unfortunately in unscrewing it (wall
mounted fixture), one of the glass tubes has broken. For the moment
I've abandoned the operation with the bulb still in place!

Any guidance on how I should progress please?

Thanks

Rob

Carry on unscrewing it and throw it in the bin?

On Jun 19, 12:17 pm, robgraham wrote:
A standard screw in energy saver bulb has failed (not so sure about
the long life of these!). Unfortunately in unscrewing it (wall
mounted fixture), one of the glass tubes has broken. For the moment
I've abandoned the operation with the bulb still in place!

Any guidance on how I should progress please?

Thanks

Rob

Hi

Make sure the power is turned off at your distribution board, then
unscrew it with a thick rag or gardening gloves?

Steve

"stevelup" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 19, 12:17 pm, robgraham wrote:
A standard screw in energy saver bulb has failed (not so sure about
the long life of these!). Unfortunately in unscrewing it (wall
mounted fixture), one of the glass tubes has broken. For the moment
I've abandoned the operation with the bulb still in place!

Any guidance on how I should progress please?

Thanks

Rob

Hi

Make sure the power is turned off at your distribution board, then
unscrew it with a thick rag or gardening gloves?

Steve


Put a plastic food bag over it first so you don't drop anymore bits of glass
on the floor.. it can be a b****r to clean up.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
robgraham wrote:
A standard screw in energy saver bulb has failed (not so sure about
the long life of these!). Unfortunately in unscrewing it (wall
mounted fixture), one of the glass tubes has broken. For the moment
I've abandoned the operation with the bulb still in place!

Any guidance on how I should progress please?

Thanks

Rob

Carry on unscrewing it and throw it in the bin?
No
Carry on unscrewing it and take it to the nearest facility that deals with
hazardous waste.

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

"Graham" wrote in message
...

snip
No
Carry on unscrewing it and take it to the nearest facility that
deals with hazardous waste.


Hmm, great, from a less efficient bulb with nothing more than a vacuum
inside to one that might use less energy in use but uses more
recourses to make and then needs specialized disposal - more tree
hugging gone mad....

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 04:17:59 -0700 someone who may be robgraham
wrote this:-

A standard screw in energy saver bulb has failed

After how long? What was the duty cycle?

What is "standard" about it?

Unfortunately in unscrewing it (wall
mounted fixture), one of the glass tubes has broken. For the moment
I've abandoned the operation with the bulb still in place!

As others have said, continue unscrewing it after taking the
appropriate precautions.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Graham wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
robgraham wrote:
A standard screw in energy saver bulb has failed (not so sure about
the long life of these!). Unfortunately in unscrewing it (wall
mounted fixture), one of the glass tubes has broken. For the moment
I've abandoned the operation with the bulb still in place!

Any guidance on how I should progress please?

Thanks

Rob

Carry on unscrewing it and throw it in the bin?
No
Carry on unscrewing it and take it to the nearest facility that deals with
hazardous waste.

Yup. It's called the BIN.

Graham wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
robgraham wrote:
A standard screw in energy saver bulb has failed (not so sure
about the long life of these!). Unfortunately in unscrewing it (wall
mounted fixture), one of the glass tubes has broken. For the
moment I've abandoned the operation with the bulb still in place!

Any guidance on how I should progress please?

Thanks

Rob

Carry on unscrewing it and throw it in the bin?
No
Carry on unscrewing it and take it to the nearest facility that deals
with hazardous waste.

You mean, like your bin?

Seriously, I phoned my council about how to disposed of domestic fluorescent
tubes. For long ones, they suggested bagging it, breaking it, and stuffing
it in the regular non-recycleable waste bin.

Do other councils have special collection points for them?

Tim

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:10:20 +0100 someone who may be "Graham"
wrote this:-

Carry on unscrewing it and take it to the nearest facility that deals with
hazardous waste.

One would only need to do that for large quantities, in a commercial
or industrial setting. For the small quantities individual
households produce they can be put in the residual waste bin.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 15:12:53 +0100 someone who may be "Tim Downie"
wrote this:-

Seriously, I phoned my council about how to disposed of domestic fluorescent
tubes. For long ones, they suggested bagging it, breaking it, and stuffing
it in the regular non-recycleable waste bin.

Do other councils have special collection points for them?

I doubt if they have anything for householders.

Not only do have commercial/industrial buildings have more lamps and
they may also have a bulk replacement policy, so it is more
important to deal with them than the trickle of lamps from a large
number of households. I may throw out an average of one fluorescent
tube or compact fluorescent lamp a year, probably less.

My council has a whole section of their web site on what can be
recycled where and everything else to do with waste. I can even call
up a bin collection calendar for the next eight weeks. I suspect
yours does too as I have called up bin collection calendars for
members of the family living in a village in England.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article , Graham wrote:

Carry on unscrewing it and take it to the nearest facility that deals with
hazardous waste.

This is unnecessary. However you should (a) open the window and (b)
not use a vacuum cleaner to suck up the remains, as this will disperse
the mercury throughout the air.

Ideally unbroken bulbs should be recycled.

Here is some (American) advice on the subject:

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partner...et_Mercury.pdf

-- Richard
--
"Consideration shall be given to the need for as many as 32 characters
in some alphabets" - X3.4, 1963.

On 2007-06-19 12:17:59 +0100, robgraham said:

A standard screw in energy saver bulb has failed (not so sure about
the long life of these!). Unfortunately in unscrewing it (wall
mounted fixture), one of the glass tubes has broken. For the moment
I've abandoned the operation with the bulb still in place!

Any guidance on how I should progress please?

Thanks

Rob

Pair of sidecutters. Replace the bulb and fitting with a proper tungsten one.

On 2007-06-19 15:43:05 +0100, David Hansen
said:
r compact fluorescent lamp a year, probably less.

My council has a whole section of their web site on what can be
recycled where and everything else to do with waste.


Perfect.

Let's ship all the toxic waste to Edinburgh....

Tim Downie wrote:

Seriously, I phoned my council about how to disposed of domestic fluorescent
tubes. For long ones, they suggested bagging it, breaking it, and stuffing
it in the regular non-recycleable waste bin.

Do other councils have special collection points for them?

Ours does, at the local dump / recycling depot - there's a long
open-ended steel box, a bit like a large coffin, into which you slide
them. Stands in between the containers for TVs/PC monitors and the one
for fridges, and next to the little skip-ette for batteries!

David

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:36:54 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-06-19 12:17:59 +0100, robgraham said:

A standard screw in energy saver bulb has failed (not so sure about
the long life of these!). Unfortunately in unscrewing it (wall
mounted fixture), one of the glass tubes has broken. For the moment
I've abandoned the operation with the bulb still in place!

Any guidance on how I should progress please?

Thanks

Rob

Pair of sidecutters. Replace the bulb and fitting with a proper tungsten one.


I like it.

I've just done another round of measurements on some of these things.

In general when brand new they give about 35 % less light than the GLS
lamp that the CFL manufacturers claim they are equivalent to,
(incidentally by using the subterfuge of comparing white CFL's with
decor coloured GLS lamps) and after Ca 1 years service the light
output has fallen by a * further 48% *.

After 1 year, at 10 seconds after switch on the CFL is down to 25% of
the light it is supposed to give and only reaches 35% after over 3
minutes waiting after switch on.

I don't know about DH replacing less than one tube per year, I'm just
about to replace 13 of them because of low light output, and FWIR
another 6 have failed suddenly in service during the past year.

The CFL's from yourwelcome.co.uk cost £3.00 for an 11 watt SES.
Spiral. The 60 watt pearl GLS lamp cost 16p from Tesco (19 times
cheaper) .

DG

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:20:50 +0100 someone who may be Derek Geldard
wrote this:-

I'm just
about to replace 13 of them because of low light output,

Did your eyes notice any difference?

I note that you failed to provide any comparison figures for a GLS
bulb.

and FWIR
another 6 have failed suddenly in service during the past year.

Then you must be doing something strange with them, or have very
inferior models. In over 25 years of using three dozen such lamps
only three have expired so far. I have also broken two through
bashing them.

The CFL's from yourwelcome.co.uk cost £3.00 for an 11 watt SES.
Spiral.

I have only had one spiral lamp. Didn't like the colour so it is now
relegated to the storage area.

The last compact fluorescent lamps I bought were 99p in John Lewis.
I suspect they will last as well as the rest and I have marked the
dates on them to check.

The 60 watt pearl GLS lamp cost 16p from Tesco (19 times
cheaper) .

Initial cost is not the only criteria for buying something.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article ,
Derek Geldard wrote:

After 1 year, at 10 seconds after switch on the CFL is down to 25% of
the light it is supposed to give and only reaches 35% after over 3
minutes waiting after switch on.

I don't see this as much of a problem. Some older ones became
*really* dim at switch-on after a while, but I haven't noticed
that recently.

I don't know about DH replacing less than one tube per year, I'm just
about to replace 13 of them because of low light output, and FWIR
another 6 have failed suddenly in service during the past year.

In my experience they last several times as long as ordinary bulbs on
average, but some people seem to have the idea that they're supposed
to last for ever, which they certainly don't.

The CFL's from yourwelcome.co.uk cost £3.00 for an 11 watt SES.

John Lewis have them for a pound. Not spiral though.

-- Richard
--
"Consideration shall be given to the need for as many as 32 characters
in some alphabets" - X3.4, 1963.

Lobster wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:

Seriously, I phoned my council about how to disposed of domestic
fluorescent tubes. For long ones, they suggested bagging it, breaking
it, and stuffing it in the regular non-recycleable waste bin.

Do other councils have special collection points for them?

Ours does, at the local dump / recycling depot - there's a long
open-ended steel box, a bit like a large coffin, into which you slide
them. Stands in between the containers for TVs/PC monitors and the one
for fridges, and next to the little skip-ette for batteries!

David
That's to make it look like they won't ACTUALLY be gong into landfill.

According to the beeb, 70% of what goes in yet 'blue bin' ends up in
landfill anyway.

Derek Geldard wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:36:54 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-06-19 12:17:59 +0100, robgraham said:

A standard screw in energy saver bulb has failed (not so sure about
the long life of these!). Unfortunately in unscrewing it (wall
mounted fixture), one of the glass tubes has broken. For the moment
I've abandoned the operation with the bulb still in place!

Any guidance on how I should progress please?

Thanks

Rob
Pair of sidecutters. Replace the bulb and fitting with a proper tungsten one.


I like it.

I've just done another round of measurements on some of these things.

In general when brand new they give about 35 % less light than the GLS
lamp that the CFL manufacturers claim they are equivalent to,

That accords with my gut feel - a '100W equivalent' CFL is actually
about a 60W..subjectively..

(incidentally by using the subterfuge of comparing white CFL's with
decor coloured GLS lamps) and after Ca 1 years service the light
output has fallen by a * further 48% *.

After 1 year, at 10 seconds after switch on the CFL is down to 25% of
the light it is supposed to give and only reaches 35% after over 3
minutes waiting after switch on.

I don't know about DH replacing less than one tube per year, I'm just
about to replace 13 of them because of low light output, and FWIR
another 6 have failed suddenly in service during the past year.

The CFL's from yourwelcome.co.uk cost £3.00 for an 11 watt SES.
Spiral. The 60 watt pearl GLS lamp cost 16p from Tesco (19 times
cheaper) .

Go online, and they are even cheaper, and better quality..


DG

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


Go online, and they are even cheaper, and better quality..

The postage costs more than the 47p each I paid for mine in Asda.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


Go online, and they are even cheaper, and better quality..

The postage costs more than the 47p each I paid for mine in Asda.

Until recently, Morrison's were selling Philips CFL's for 39p

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:35:40 +0100, David Hansen
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:20:50 +0100 someone who may be Derek Geldard
wrote this:-

I'm just
about to replace 13 of them because of low light output,

Did your eyes notice any difference?


Human eyes are equipped with auto focus and auto iris, and also have a
logarithmic response, and are therefore not a reliable guide, however
the falling off of the light had started to become noticeable whilst
attempting fine work (I started needing to use a 150w halogen
uplighter as well, even just for eating a meal) that is why I got the
lightmeter out. The effect is masked to some extent by the variation
in hours and quality of daylight through the year.

Having put old and new together the difference is readily apparent.

I notice that the site from which I bought them also has 20 watt
spirals said to be 100 watt equivalents at the same price which would
go in the same fittings, it's possible that we could get a longer
service life out of these but they use 75% more electrical power.

I note that you failed to provide any comparison figures for a GLS
bulb.

I didn't have an old GLS bulb, the whole house is CFL's and Halogens
except 2 oven lamps + the microwave. I've had CFL's since the first
Philips "Jamjar" lamps.

FWIR I never used to get anything like as much deterioration with
gasfilled filament lamps, and we didn't have the warming up to contend
with as-well-as.


and FWIR
another 6 have failed suddenly in service during the past year.

Then you must be doing something strange with them, or have very
inferior models. In over 25 years of using three dozen such lamps
only three have expired so far. I have also broken two through
bashing them.


Of the spiral lamps that failed (of more than one manufacturer) the
plastic enclosure around the bulb cap was burnt brown, the electronics
inside must have been running mighty hot.

It's also worrying that straight fluorescent tubes are failing within
their first year. I suspect cheap production from the far east (they
were bought from Ring) however buying from Philips / GE is no
guarantee of good performance and reliability. Reduction in mercury
fill is another possibility, some straight tubes went a strange feeble
pink colour, this phenomena is new to me.

The CFL's from yourwelcome.co.uk cost £3.00 for an 11 watt SES.
Spiral.

I have only had one spiral lamp. Didn't like the colour so it is now
relegated to the storage area.


Well, spiral is just a shape option, and they come in more than one
colour temperature.

The last compact fluorescent lamps I bought were 99p in John Lewis.
I suspect they will last as well as the rest and I have marked the
dates on them to check.

The 60 watt pearl GLS lamp cost 16p from Tesco (19 times
cheaper) .

Initial cost is not the only criteria for buying something.

Reliability/price ratio comes first (need to have reliability but
can't pay to have it gold plated) then performance, (No good if it
doesn't do what you want) then ongoing direct costs (Have to be able
to afford to use it).

DG

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 20:38:21 GMT, "Micky"
wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


Go online, and they are even cheaper, and better quality..

The postage costs more than the 47p each I paid for mine in Asda.

Until recently, Morrison's were selling Philips CFL's for 39p


Yes. I saw them in our Morrison's for 2 for 99p.

I doubt they really came from Philips GloeilampenFabrieken

I had to be picky because I needed to get them to fit unobtrusively in
an existing fitting with a sufficient power output.

So, It's no go, the Gloeilamps. :-((

DG

Derek Geldard wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:35:40 +0100, David Hansen
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:20:50 +0100 someone who may be Derek Geldard
wrote this:-

I'm just
about to replace 13 of them because of low light output,

Did your eyes notice any difference?


Human eyes are equipped with auto focus and auto iris, and also have a
logarithmic response, and are therefore not a reliable guide, however
the falling off of the light had started to become noticeable whilst
attempting fine work (I started needing to use a 150w halogen
uplighter as well, even just for eating a meal) that is why I got the
lightmeter out. The effect is masked to some extent by the variation
in hours and quality of daylight through the year.

Having put old and new together the difference is readily apparent.

I notice that the site from which I bought them also has 20 watt
spirals said to be 100 watt equivalents at the same price which would
go in the same fittings, it's possible that we could get a longer
service life out of these but they use 75% more electrical power.

I note that you failed to provide any comparison figures for a GLS
bulb.

I didn't have an old GLS bulb, the whole house is CFL's and Halogens
except 2 oven lamps + the microwave. I've had CFL's since the first
Philips "Jamjar" lamps.

FWIR I never used to get anything like as much deterioration with
gasfilled filament lamps, and we didn't have the warming up to contend
with as-well-as.


and FWIR
another 6 have failed suddenly in service during the past year.

Then you must be doing something strange with them, or have very
inferior models. In over 25 years of using three dozen such lamps
only three have expired so far. I have also broken two through
bashing them.

I'm amazed. I have been using them for at least 25 years and well recall
the problem at start up with the old jamjars. I also date my lamps and
have one "jamjar" left ( out of 16) which I won't check for its date for
fear of killing it though I keep hoping it will pack up! Ours seem to
last just in excess of 6/7 years though I have to admit I've used a
mixed bag of manufacturers over the years and have concluded that I will
stick to GE/ Phillips in future.


Of the spiral lamps that failed (of more than one manufacturer) the
plastic enclosure around the bulb cap was burnt brown, the electronics
inside must have been running mighty hot.

It's also worrying that straight fluorescent tubes are failing within
their first year. I suspect cheap production from the far east (they
were bought from Ring) however buying from Philips / GE is no
guarantee of good performance and reliability. Reduction in mercury
fill is another possibility, some straight tubes went a strange feeble
pink colour, this phenomena is new to me.

The CFL's from yourwelcome.co.uk cost £3.00 for an 11 watt SES.
Spiral.

I have only had one spiral lamp. Didn't like the colour so it is now
relegated to the storage area.


Well, spiral is just a shape option, and they come in more than one
colour temperature.

The last compact fluorescent lamps I bought were 99p in John Lewis.
I suspect they will last as well as the rest and I have marked the
dates on them to check.

The 60 watt pearl GLS lamp cost 16p from Tesco (19 times
cheaper) .

Initial cost is not the only criteria for buying something.

Reliability/price ratio comes first (need to have reliability but
can't pay to have it gold plated) then performance, (No good if it
doesn't do what you want) then ongoing direct costs (Have to be able
to afford to use it).

dennis@home wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

Go online, and they are even cheaper, and better quality..

The postage costs more than the 47p each I paid for mine in Asda.


Not if you buy in 50's

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:53:43 +0100 someone who may be The Natural
Philosopher wrote this:-

According to the beeb, 70% of what goes in yet 'blue bin' ends up in
landfill anyway.

There are all sorts of figures over a large range.

Part of the problem is people contaminating whole lorries by putting
the wrong things in a bin, which means the whole load cannot be
used. That is why sorting of things by council staff at the kerbside
produces the best streams of recyclables.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:30:21 GMT, "clot" wrote:


I'm amazed. I have been using them for at least 25 years and well recall
the problem at start up with the old jamjars. I also date my lamps and
have one "jamjar" left ( out of 16) which I won't check for its date for
fear of killing it though I keep hoping it will pack up!

The jamjar lamps had a wound inductive ballast which can be made
reliable at a high working temperature using materials developed for
transformers.

Ours seem to
last just in excess of 6/7 years though I have to admit I've used a
mixed bag of manufacturers over the years and have concluded that I will
stick to GE/ Phillips in future.

Certainly you can get lamps with the Philips / GE name on now at a
reasonable enough price but they are all made in the P.R.C.

The fitting may make a difference, during a trip to France I bought 3
shallow bowl type fittings (hence 6 bulbs) which fit flat to the
ceiling, could be they run warmer in there, although they were
designed for a pair of 40 watt candles as opposed to 9 watt CFL's.
About 2 - 2.5 years is the max we get with a significant number
failing in the first year

DG

On 2007-06-20 08:48:17 +0100, David Hansen
said:
That is why sorting of things by council staff at the kerbside
produces the best streams of recyclables.

A good idea. That is how they should do it.


I had an interesting "discussion" with my local authority this week
regarding their contractor's failure to remove two bin bags of assorted
rubbish. There was no apparent reason for this - didn't contain
garden materials or anything like that - they sell hampers for that
purpose.

The person in the "waste management team" (he called himself an
advisor - this is the latest trendy word for a phone jockey) said that
she would contact the contractor, try to find out why and get back to
me. "When was that going to be?", I wanted to know.

"Maybe tomorrow, maybe later in the week..." was the reply.

"I meant by what time today"

"Oh I don't know"

"Would your boss? What is your SLA with the contractor? I need the
rubbish to be collected today since it's in the way. Please can you
contact the contractor and ask them to collect it"

(pause to go and ask)

"I'll call you back within the hour"

20 minutes later, a truck arrives from the contractor and collects the
remaining bags.

There never was a phone call.

7/10 for fixing the problem.
5/10 for not meeting their commitment of calling back to check that the
rubbish had been collected.
1/10 for wasting my time and theirs resolving an issue that shouldn't
have arisen in the first place.

In article , David Hansen
writes
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:53:43 +0100 someone who may be The Natural
Philosopher wrote this:-

According to the beeb, 70% of what goes in yet 'blue bin' ends up in
landfill anyway.

There are all sorts of figures over a large range.

Part of the problem is people contaminating whole lorries by putting
the wrong things in a bin, which means the whole load cannot be
used. That is why sorting of things by council staff at the kerbside
produces the best streams of recyclables.


Our council now collects all the recyclable stuff (except glass) in
orange sacks and then sorts them somewhere (apparently).
--
John Alexander,

Remove NOSPAM if replying by e-mail

On 2007-06-20 22:25:09 +0100, John said:

In article , David Hansen
writes
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:53:43 +0100 someone who may be The Natural
Philosopher wrote this:-

According to the beeb, 70% of what goes in yet 'blue bin' ends up in
landfill anyway.

There are all sorts of figures over a large range.

Part of the problem is people contaminating whole lorries by putting
the wrong things in a bin, which means the whole load cannot be
used. That is why sorting of things by council staff at the kerbside
produces the best streams of recyclables.


Our council now collects all the recyclable stuff (except glass) in
orange sacks and then sorts them somewhere (apparently).

Very good. They are eminently more qualified than the householder to
do this.

Andy Hall wrote:

On 2007-06-20 22:25:09 +0100, John said:

In article , David Hansen
writes

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:53:43 +0100 someone who may be The Natural
Philosopher wrote this:-

According to the beeb, 70% of what goes in yet 'blue bin' ends up in
landfill anyway.


There are all sorts of figures over a large range.

Part of the problem is people contaminating whole lorries by putting
the wrong things in a bin, which means the whole load cannot be
used. That is why sorting of things by council staff at the kerbside
produces the best streams of recyclables.


Our council now collects all the recyclable stuff (except glass) in
orange sacks and then sorts them somewhere (apparently).


Very good. They are eminently more qualified than the householder to
do this.

I couldn't agree with you more.

My wife puts all plastic packaging into a green bag that the council
provide, despite the fact that quite a lot of it can't be recycled.
Things like supermarket plastic packaging and cling film is a no no.

The big laugh, is the fact that our local council do not re-cycle their
own rubbish, as they don't get any cash from central government to do
so, unlike domestic rubbish.

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:52:41 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-06-20 22:25:09 +0100, John said:

In article , David Hansen
writes
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:53:43 +0100 someone who may be The Natural
Philosopher wrote this:-

According to the beeb, 70% of what goes in yet 'blue bin' ends up in
landfill anyway.

There are all sorts of figures over a large range.

Part of the problem is people contaminating whole lorries by putting
the wrong things in a bin, which means the whole load cannot be
used. That is why sorting of things by council staff at the kerbside
produces the best streams of recyclables.


Our council now collects all the recyclable stuff (except glass) in
orange sacks and then sorts them somewhere (apparently).

Very good. They are eminently more qualified than the householder to
do this.

I wonder whether their 'orange sacks" are recyclable themselves; or
whether their method of collection/sorting is 'green'...
I'm not being facetious here, but is this recycling effort not just a
token thing to gain Brownie Points from 'central government" (whatever
that is)?
My own LA still has 'normal' refuse collection weekly, alternating
with fortnightly garden refuse collection (during summerish months)
and a collection of supposed recyclable stuff such as paper, glass and
'tin' containers. The 'recyclable' stuff is collected by a contractor,
who isn't interested at all in any non- 'tin can' things like scrap
metal which I occasionally produce.
The collection procedure is still via large heavy vehicles (two a
week) trawling the streets. Plus the occasional vehicle that sweeps
the street, and a gulley-sucker to clean the street drains (actually
only 3 or 4 times a year).

--
Frank Erskine
Sunderland

On 2007-06-21 02:38:27 +0100, Frank Erskine
said:

I wonder whether their 'orange sacks" are recyclable themselves; or
whether their method of collection/sorting is 'green'...
I'm not being facetious here, but is this recycling effort not just a
token thing to gain Brownie Points from 'central government" (whatever
that is)?

They respond to two things - legal compulsion and sources of funding.

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:52:41 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-06-20 22:25:09 +0100, John said:

In article , David Hansen
writes
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:53:43 +0100 someone who may be The Natural
Philosopher wrote this:-

According to the beeb, 70% of what goes in yet 'blue bin' ends up in
landfill anyway.
There are all sorts of figures over a large range.

Part of the problem is people contaminating whole lorries by putting
the wrong things in a bin, which means the whole load cannot be
used. That is why sorting of things by council staff at the kerbside
produces the best streams of recyclables.


Our council now collects all the recyclable stuff (except glass) in
orange sacks and then sorts them somewhere (apparently).
Very good. They are eminently more qualified than the householder to
do this.

I wonder whether their 'orange sacks" are recyclable themselves; or
whether their method of collection/sorting is 'green'...
I'm not being facetious here, but is this recycling effort not just a
token thing to gain Brownie Points from 'central government" (whatever
that is)?

It's all total ********... now that our council has introduced wheelie
bins and started collecting garden waste, with all the associated costs
involved, they must be picking up about, oh, 60% more stuff by weight
from the kerbside than in the old 'black bag' days. However, because
the extra 60% is pure recyclable (ie garden waste) it means the council
can claim that the % of waste which is recycled has suddenly gone up
dramatically, thereby meeting government targets, without even
considering any other aspects of recycling.

And in order to achieve this, instead of the public composting their own
grass clippings in their garden and using the result as fertilizer, we
are now encouraged to have our grass collected by a petrol-guzzling,
congestion-inducing lorry, transported to God knows where, mulched down
and converted to fertilizer or whatever; and we then drive to the garden
centre to buy bags of pre-packaged compost for the garden...

David

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:30:35 GMT someone who may be Lobster
wrote this:-

And in order to achieve this, instead of the public composting their own
grass clippings in their garden and using the result as fertilizer, we
are now encouraged to have our grass collected by a petrol-guzzling,

Presumably diesel or LPG guzzling.

congestion-inducing lorry, transported to God knows where,

Usually somewhere at least as local as the landfill site.

mulched down
and converted to fertilizer or whatever; and we then drive to the garden
centre to buy bags of pre-packaged compost for the garden...

Where I live the council will provide up to three compost bins for
six pounds each. The Scottish Executive leaflet which accompanies
them makes it clear that home composting is even better for the
environment than the brown bin. It is clear that the council would
rather people compost at home, but provides the brown bin for those
unable or unwilling to do so. The scheme extends throughout the
country and I imagine there are similar schemes in the rest of the
UK.

Nice try.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54