Waterproofing electrical connection
 

I have a drainage pump in a manhole which connects to armoured cable in a
box at the top (inside) the manhole.
All is well until the pump breaks down, water level rises and the box does
not keep the water out.
Local electric store says they have nothing to help so I wondered .....
can I literally fill the box with silicon to solve the problem.
At the outset the connection should have been made above ground ( a wall
about 8 feet away) but alas, there is now not sufficient cable to play with
meaning the connection has to remain inside the manhole.
Any help appreciated.

Peter

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

On Fri, 11 May 2007 07:47:14 +0100, "Peter"
wrote:

I have a drainage pump in a manhole which connects to armoured cable in a
box at the top (inside) the manhole.
All is well until the pump breaks down, water level rises and the box does
not keep the water out.
Local electric store says they have nothing to help so I wondered .....
can I literally fill the box with silicon to solve the problem.
At the outset the connection should have been made above ground ( a wall
about 8 feet away) but alas, there is now not sufficient cable to play with
meaning the connection has to remain inside the manhole.
Any help appreciated.

Peter



These are listed by Screwfix

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...31819&ts=66447

Andy

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

"Peter" wrote in message
...
I have a drainage pump in a manhole which connects to armoured cable in a
box at the top (inside) the manhole.
All is well until the pump breaks down, water level rises and the box does
not keep the water out.
Local electric store says they have nothing to help so I wondered .....
can I literally fill the box with silicon to solve the problem.
At the outset the connection should have been made above ground ( a wall
about 8 feet away) but alas, there is now not sufficient cable to play
with meaning the connection has to remain inside the manhole.
Any help appreciated.

looking at the price of pumps, the cost of wp boxes and the inconvenience of
having perhaps a compound filled box in the manhole, maybe a new pump is the
best option. How have you solved the breakdowns you report?

Jim A

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

"Jim Alexander" wrote in message
...

"Peter" wrote in message
...
I have a drainage pump in a manhole which connects to armoured cable in a
box at the top (inside) the manhole.
All is well until the pump breaks down, water level rises and the box
does not keep the water out.
Local electric store says they have nothing to help so I wondered .....
can I literally fill the box with silicon to solve the problem.
At the outset the connection should have been made above ground ( a wall
about 8 feet away) but alas, there is now not sufficient cable to play
with meaning the connection has to remain inside the manhole.
Any help appreciated.

looking at the price of pumps, the cost of wp boxes and the inconvenience
of having perhaps a compound filled box in the manhole, maybe a new pump
is the best option. How have you solved the breakdowns you report?

Jim A

I recently pulled out the pump (after a breakdown) and put a socket on the
wire to test it. It failed. On a whim I cut the wire shorter and found that
it worked fine. Then used it to lower the water level until I could reconnet
it back in the manhole.
Since water had not only entered the box and tripped the electrics but also
(apparently) seeped into some few feet of the pump cable, I am quite keen
for a waterproof solution.
I need to connect armoured cable to normal 3 core (somewhat thinner) cable.
Would silicon work?


Peter

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

"Andy Cap" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 May 2007 07:47:14 +0100, "Peter"
wrote:

I have a drainage pump in a manhole which connects to armoured cable in a
box at the top (inside) the manhole.
All is well until the pump breaks down, water level rises and the box does
not keep the water out.
Local electric store says they have nothing to help so I wondered .....
can I literally fill the box with silicon to solve the problem.
At the outset the connection should have been made above ground ( a wall
about 8 feet away) but alas, there is now not sufficient cable to play
with
meaning the connection has to remain inside the manhole.
Any help appreciated.

Peter



These are listed by Screwfix

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...31819&ts=66447

Andy

Would any of these connect differing thicknesses of cable?

Thanks

Peter

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

Hi Peter

On Fri, 11 May 2007 08:51:56 +0100, "Peter"
wrote:


"Jim Alexander" wrote in message
k...

"Peter" wrote in message
...
I have a drainage pump in a manhole which connects to armoured cable in a
box at the top (inside) the manhole.
All is well until the pump breaks down, water level rises and the box
does not keep the water out.
Local electric store says they have nothing to help so I wondered .....
can I literally fill the box with silicon to solve the problem.
At the outset the connection should have been made above ground ( a wall
about 8 feet away) but alas, there is now not sufficient cable to play
with meaning the connection has to remain inside the manhole.
Any help appreciated.

looking at the price of pumps, the cost of wp boxes and the inconvenience
of having perhaps a compound filled box in the manhole, maybe a new pump
is the best option. How have you solved the breakdowns you report?

Jim A

I recently pulled out the pump (after a breakdown) and put a socket on the
wire to test it. It failed. On a whim I cut the wire shorter and found that
it worked fine. Then used it to lower the water level until I could reconnet
it back in the manhole.
Since water had not only entered the box and tripped the electrics but also
(apparently) seeped into some few feet of the pump cable, I am quite keen
for a waterproof solution.
I need to connect armoured cable to normal 3 core (somewhat thinner) cable.
Would silicon work?


What about 'Self-amalgamating tape' ?
It's a rubbery tape, in order to use it you remove the backing
material and stretch it. You then use it to 'over-wrap' whatever
you're waterproofing, bandage-style.

It then sticks to itself, forming a kind of rubber sheath over the
cabling. Being a tape, it will cope with cables of different diameter
- and it can be 'stanley-knifed' off if you ever need to remove it.

Avaliable from CPC, Screwfix etc...

I used one of the 'waterproof' junction boxes from Screwfix in a damp
location (to do with a pump in a septic tank system - but the box was
well above the water level), and it was pretty useless !
Self-amalgamating tape was much more effective.

Hope this helps
Adrian

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

On Fri, 11 May 2007 08:53:02 +0100, "Peter"
wrote:



These are listed by Screwfix

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...31819&ts=66447

Andy

Would any of these connect differing thicknesses of cable?

Thanks

Peter


Good point. Forgot about the armoured bit ! Need someone who's conversant with
the box spec and size of armoured cable I guess.

Andy

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

"Peter" wrote in message
...
I have a drainage pump in a manhole which connects to armoured cable in a
box at the top (inside) the manhole.
All is well until the pump breaks down, water level rises and the box does
not keep the water out.
Local electric store says they have nothing to help so I wondered .....
can I literally fill the box with silicon to solve the problem.
At the outset the connection should have been made above ground ( a wall
about 8 feet away) but alas, there is now not sufficient cable to play
with meaning the connection has to remain inside the manhole.
Any help appreciated.

Is it impossible to replace the flex on the pump?

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...

"Peter" wrote in message
...
I have a drainage pump in a manhole which connects to armoured cable in a
box at the top (inside) the manhole.
All is well until the pump breaks down, water level rises and the box
does not keep the water out.
Local electric store says they have nothing to help so I wondered .....
can I literally fill the box with silicon to solve the problem.
At the outset the connection should have been made above ground ( a wall
about 8 feet away) but alas, there is now not sufficient cable to play
with meaning the connection has to remain inside the manhole.
Any help appreciated.

Is it impossible to replace the flex on the pump?

There is a special (heat sealed?) connection at the pump (rather like the
sealed 3 pin plugs). I think that would be a 'send back to the manufacturer
jobbie'

Peter

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

"Peter" wrote in message
...

"Jim Alexander" wrote in message
...

"Peter" wrote in message
...
I have a drainage pump in a manhole which connects to armoured cable in a
box at the top (inside) the manhole.
All is well until the pump breaks down, water level rises and the box
does not keep the water out.
Local electric store says they have nothing to help so I wondered .....
can I literally fill the box with silicon to solve the problem.
At the outset the connection should have been made above ground ( a wall
about 8 feet away) but alas, there is now not sufficient cable to play
with meaning the connection has to remain inside the manhole.
Any help appreciated.

looking at the price of pumps, the cost of wp boxes and the inconvenience
of having perhaps a compound filled box in the manhole, maybe a new pump
is the best option. How have you solved the breakdowns you report?

Jim A

I recently pulled out the pump (after a breakdown) and put a socket on the
wire to test it. It failed. On a whim I cut the wire shorter and found
that it worked fine. Then used it to lower the water level until I could
reconnet it back in the manhole.
Since water had not only entered the box and tripped the electrics but
also (apparently) seeped into some few feet of the pump cable, I am quite
keen for a waterproof solution.
I need to connect armoured cable to normal 3 core (somewhat thinner)
cable.
Would silicon work?

if you want to retain your existing pump and its (probably) not practicable
to rewire the pump I would extend the pump cable with similar diameter flex.
Much easier to wp that than different cable types and diameters. Move the
armoured cable to where you really want it.

Don't have a link to hand but I've used compound filled boxes to do this.
Alternatively, individually heat shrink sleeve and overall self amalgamating
tape as suggested.

Jim A

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

"Peter" wrote in message
...

"Jim Alexander" wrote in message
...

"Peter" wrote in message
...
I have a drainage pump in a manhole which connects to armoured cable in a
box at the top (inside) the manhole.
All is well until the pump breaks down, water level rises and the box
does not keep the water out.
Local electric store says they have nothing to help so I wondered .....
can I literally fill the box with silicon to solve the problem.
At the outset the connection should have been made above ground ( a wall
about 8 feet away) but alas, there is now not sufficient cable to play
with meaning the connection has to remain inside the manhole.
Any help appreciated.

looking at the price of pumps, the cost of wp boxes and the inconvenience
of having perhaps a compound filled box in the manhole, maybe a new pump
is the best option. How have you solved the breakdowns you report?

Jim A

I recently pulled out the pump (after a breakdown) and put a socket on the
wire to test it. It failed. On a whim I cut the wire shorter and found
that it worked fine. Then used it to lower the water level until I could
reconnet it back in the manhole.
Since water had not only entered the box and tripped the electrics but
also (apparently) seeped into some few feet of the pump cable, I am quite
keen for a waterproof solution.
I need to connect armoured cable to normal 3 core (somewhat thinner)
cable.
Would silicon work?



This sort of thing...

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SWJK1.html

overkill perhaps and really designed for SWA both sides but definately
waterproof.

Jim A

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

Jim Alexander wrote:
"Peter" wrote in message
...
"Jim Alexander" wrote in message
...
"Peter" wrote in message
...
I have a drainage pump in a manhole which connects to armoured cable in a
box at the top (inside) the manhole.
All is well until the pump breaks down, water level rises and the box
does not keep the water out.
Local electric store says they have nothing to help so I wondered .....
can I literally fill the box with silicon to solve the problem.
At the outset the connection should have been made above ground ( a wall
about 8 feet away) but alas, there is now not sufficient cable to play
with meaning the connection has to remain inside the manhole.
Any help appreciated.
looking at the price of pumps, the cost of wp boxes and the inconvenience
of having perhaps a compound filled box in the manhole, maybe a new pump
is the best option. How have you solved the breakdowns you report?

Jim A
I recently pulled out the pump (after a breakdown) and put a socket on the
wire to test it. It failed. On a whim I cut the wire shorter and found
that it worked fine. Then used it to lower the water level until I could
reconnet it back in the manhole.
Since water had not only entered the box and tripped the electrics but
also (apparently) seeped into some few feet of the pump cable, I am quite
keen for a waterproof solution.
I need to connect armoured cable to normal 3 core (somewhat thinner)
cable.
Would silicon work?



This sort of thing...

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SWJK1.html

overkill perhaps and really designed for SWA both sides but definately
waterproof.

Jim A

This is what I would look to use (or something like it). In my
experience silicon sealant / self amalgamating tape will not work when
you are dealing with submersion. As you have found, water will quite
happily wick up a length of cable.

Chris

--
Cut along the dotted line to reply

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

"Chris" wrote in
message ...
Jim Alexander wrote:
"Peter" wrote in message
...
"Jim Alexander" wrote in message
...
"Peter" wrote in message
...
I have a drainage pump in a manhole which connects to armoured cable
in a box at the top (inside) the manhole.
All is well until the pump breaks down, water level rises and the box
does not keep the water out.
Local electric store says they have nothing to help so I wondered
.....
can I literally fill the box with silicon to solve the problem.
At the outset the connection should have been made above ground ( a
wall about 8 feet away) but alas, there is now not sufficient cable to
play with meaning the connection has to remain inside the manhole.
Any help appreciated.
looking at the price of pumps, the cost of wp boxes and the
inconvenience of having perhaps a compound filled box in the manhole,
maybe a new pump is the best option. How have you solved the
breakdowns you report?

Jim A
I recently pulled out the pump (after a breakdown) and put a socket on
the wire to test it. It failed. On a whim I cut the wire shorter and
found that it worked fine. Then used it to lower the water level until I
could reconnet it back in the manhole.
Since water had not only entered the box and tripped the electrics but
also (apparently) seeped into some few feet of the pump cable, I am
quite keen for a waterproof solution.
I need to connect armoured cable to normal 3 core (somewhat thinner)
cable.
Would silicon work?



This sort of thing...

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SWJK1.html

overkill perhaps and really designed for SWA both sides but definately
waterproof.

Jim A

This is what I would look to use (or something like it). In my experience
silicon sealant / self amalgamating tape will not work when you are
dealing with submersion. As you have found, water will quite happily wick
up a length of cable.

Chris

--
Cut along the dotted line to reply

Many thanks to all

Peter

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

In article ,
"Peter" writes:
I have a drainage pump in a manhole which connects to armoured cable in a
box at the top (inside) the manhole.
All is well until the pump breaks down, water level rises and the box does
not keep the water out.
Local electric store says they have nothing to help so I wondered .....
can I literally fill the box with silicon to solve the problem.
At the outset the connection should have been made above ground ( a wall
about 8 feet away) but alas, there is now not sufficient cable to play with
meaning the connection has to remain inside the manhole.
Any help appreciated.

Well, it would certainly be possible to make up one using
appropriate sized cable glands and a gaskit sealed box.
Note that I don't believe even the CW SWA glands are
submersible, so you will probably have to use regular
(non-SWA) glands to seal against the outer sheath at the
box, and then use a standard BW SWA inside the box to make
a good connection to the armour (if necessary). The regular
glands will either need sealing washers against the box, or
use a sealant on the mating surfaces.
The box, being unvented, will form condensation, so make
sure you have large crepage distances between the connections.

Another option would be a submersible connector (B&Q had some
going cheap a couple of months back, which may mean they no
longer stock them) to join to a similar short length of rubber
cable, and a potted joint connecting that to the SWA. I don't
know what life you might expect from the submersible connector.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

Peter said the following on 11/05/2007 07:47:
I have a drainage pump in a manhole which connects to armoured cable in a
box at the top (inside) the manhole.
All is well until the pump breaks down, water level rises and the box does
not keep the water out.
Local electric store says they have nothing to help so I wondered .....
can I literally fill the box with silicon to solve the problem.
At the outset the connection should have been made above ground ( a wall
about 8 feet away) but alas, there is now not sufficient cable to play with
meaning the connection has to remain inside the manhole.
Any help appreciated.

Peter


Silicone might work, but you would be better of with epoxy potting
compound. Cheapest place around is Maplin (mail order only - they never
have it in-store)

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?...source=15&SD=Y

This is the supplier spec.

http://www.robnor.co.uk/images/epoxy-pdfs/PX700K-BK.pdf

Note that you will only need to buy the 250g pack to fill a small
junction box.

HTH

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

"Rumble" wrote in message
...
Peter said the following on 11/05/2007 07:47:
I have a drainage pump in a manhole which connects to armoured cable in a
box at the top (inside) the manhole.
All is well until the pump breaks down, water level rises and the box
does not keep the water out.
Local electric store says they have nothing to help so I wondered .....
can I literally fill the box with silicon to solve the problem.
At the outset the connection should have been made above ground ( a wall
about 8 feet away) but alas, there is now not sufficient cable to play
with meaning the connection has to remain inside the manhole.
Any help appreciated.

Peter
Silicone might work, but you would be better of with epoxy potting
compound. Cheapest place around is Maplin (mail order only - they never
have it in-store)

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?...source=15&SD=Y

This is the supplier spec.

http://www.robnor.co.uk/images/epoxy-pdfs/PX700K-BK.pdf

Note that you will only need to buy the 250g pack to fill a small junction
box.

HTH

Cheers for that, I think thats the way I'll go.

Peter

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

On Fri, 11 May 2007 07:47:14 +0100, Peter wrote:

I have a drainage pump in a manhole which connects to armoured cable in a
box at the top (inside) the manhole.
All is well until the pump breaks down, water level rises and the box does
not keep the water out.
Local electric store says they have nothing to help so I wondered .....
can I literally fill the box with silicon to solve the problem.
At the outset the connection should have been made above ground ( a wall
about 8 feet away) but alas, there is now not sufficient cable to play with
meaning the connection has to remain inside the manhole.
Any help appreciated.

I'd suggest a trip to your local electrical wholesaler and ask them for an
IP67[1] junction box that can take both a SWA cable and a flexible.

If you try to seal the existing arrangement, you'll really only be storing
up trouble for yourself if it goes wrong in the future. You could find it a
real bugger to get access is the box is full of sealant and it's all gone
tits up!

[1] IP 67 is the classification of box that will withstand complete
immersion in water.


--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

On Fri, 11 May 2007 13:56:35 +0100, JohnW wrote:

The Wanderer, in article 1l31e6rvi5ny7$.1jjels26g7hs9.dlg@
40tude.net, says...


[1] IP 67 is the classification of box that will withstand complete
immersion in water.

No, that would be IP68 (complete immersion) IP67 is protected
against immersion for a specified time and depth (1m AFAIR)

Thank you, I stand corrected. Hint to self, check before offering comment
on something I rarely deal with.....

--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

On 11 May, 15:06, The Wanderer wrote:
On Fri, 11 May 2007 13:56:35 +0100, JohnW wrote:
The Wanderer, in article 1l31e6rvi5ny7$.1jjels26g7hs9.dlg@
40tude.net, says...

[1] IP 67 is the classification of box that will withstand complete
immersion in water.

No, that would be IP68 (complete immersion) IP67 is protected
against immersion for a specified time and depth (1m AFAIR)

Thank you, I stand corrected. Hint to self, check before offering comment
on something I rarely deal with.....

--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

Maplin sold IP68 mains connectors at one time - I have one submersed
in my pond for the pump. Don't know whether they do them now or not.
Made by Bulgin IIRC.
That would be the best way to extend the flex I reckon.

Rob

Waterproofing electrical connection
 

On 11 May 2007 08:10:06 -0700, robgraham wrote:


Maplin sold IP68 mains connectors at one time - I have one submersed
in my pond for the pump. Don't know whether they do them now or not.
Made by Bulgin IIRC.
That would be the best way to extend the flex I reckon.

Rob

TLC do one. I agree that would be my choice and reterminate the new cable to the
SWA up on the wall.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/BRH65Z.html

Andy