I had the floorboards up in my one-bed flat today, to check the
wiring, and noticed that the socket circuit is not the usual "ring"
configuration. It simply has a 2.5 sq.mm T&E cable coming from the
fuse box, going to a connector block from which run three spurs: One
goes to a double socket in the lounge (for TV, Hi-Fi, etc). One goes
to my study (for computer gear, electric fan, etc) and the 3rd spur
goes to a socket in the bedroom, and then on to a dual socket in the
kitchen. The dual socket in the kitchen feeds a microwave a toaster, a
dishwasher, a washing machine and an electric kettle.

Is the above cirquit safe? Or should I add another cable from the
kitchen socket going back to the meter, thus creating a proper "ring"
cirquit?

What is the point of a ring cirquit, per se? Is it just to split the
load between two cables?

Many thanks,

Ax

"Axel G" Axel wrote in message
...

I had the floorboards up in my one-bed flat today, to check the
wiring, and noticed that the socket circuit is not the usual "ring"
configuration. It simply has a 2.5 sq.mm T&E cable coming from the
fuse box, going to a connector block from which run three spurs: One
goes to a double socket in the lounge (for TV, Hi-Fi, etc). One goes
to my study (for computer gear, electric fan, etc) and the 3rd spur
goes to a socket in the bedroom, and then on to a dual socket in the
kitchen. The dual socket in the kitchen feeds a microwave a toaster, a
dishwasher, a washing machine and an electric kettle.

Is the above cirquit safe?

whether it is safe or not depends on the fusing

Jim A

"Jim Alexander" wrote in message
. uk...

"Axel G" Axel wrote in message
...

I had the floorboards up in my one-bed flat today, to check the
wiring, and noticed that the socket circuit is not the usual "ring"
configuration. It simply has a 2.5 sq.mm T&E cable coming from the
fuse box, going to a connector block from which run three spurs: One
goes to a double socket in the lounge (for TV, Hi-Fi, etc). One goes
to my study (for computer gear, electric fan, etc) and the 3rd spur
goes to a socket in the bedroom, and then on to a dual socket in the
kitchen. The dual socket in the kitchen feeds a microwave a toaster, a
dishwasher, a washing machine and an electric kettle.

Is the above cirquit safe?

whether it is safe or not depends on the fusing

Jim A


Wrong. It depends on the area covered and the expected load as to whether
it should be ring or radial. Socket circuits are 30A and cable size 2.5mm.
What he has is perfectly acceptable, if worried he could always run another
cable from the end socket back to the consumer unit and put it in parallel.
A dishwasher shouldn't really be plugged in to a socket!
No way of telling if your wiring is safe without pictures or inspecting it.
You have no chance of getting "compensation" by claiming it's unsafe, so
don't let anyone put that idea in your head.

You should really have a nice new split load consumer unit with MCBs and the
new harmonised wiring.

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:50:08 +0100, "Clark" wrote:


"Jim Alexander" wrote in message
.uk...

"Axel G" Axel wrote in message
...

I had the floorboards up in my one-bed flat today, to check the
wiring, and noticed that the socket circuit is not the usual "ring"
configuration. It simply has a 2.5 sq.mm T&E cable coming from the
fuse box, going to a connector block from which run three spurs: One
goes to a double socket in the lounge (for TV, Hi-Fi, etc). One goes
to my study (for computer gear, electric fan, etc) and the 3rd spur
goes to a socket in the bedroom, and then on to a dual socket in the
kitchen. The dual socket in the kitchen feeds a microwave a toaster, a
dishwasher, a washing machine and an electric kettle.

Is the above cirquit safe?

whether it is safe or not depends on the fusing

Jim A


Wrong. It depends on the area covered and the expected load as to whether
it should be ring or radial. Socket circuits are 30A and cable size 2.5mm.
What he has is perfectly acceptable, if worried he could always run another
cable from the end socket back to the consumer unit and put it in parallel.
A dishwasher shouldn't really be plugged in to a socket!

Shall I write to AEG and get them to alter their instructions
booklets?

On 26 Apr, 20:27, "Jim Alexander" wrote:
"Axel G" Axel wrote in messagenews:a1t1331f55r090d0dm586lcir1s4qfaha0@4ax .com...



I had the floorboards up in my one-bed flat today, to check the
wiring, and noticed that the socket circuit is not the usual "ring"
configuration. It simply has a 2.5 sq.mm T&E cable coming from the
fuse box, going to a connector block from which run three spurs: One
goes to a double socket in the lounge (for TV, Hi-Fi, etc). One goes
to my study (for computer gear, electric fan, etc) and the 3rd spur
goes to a socket in the bedroom, and then on to a dual socket in the
kitchen. The dual socket in the kitchen feeds a microwave a toaster, a
dishwasher, a washing machine and an electric kettle.

Is the above cirquit safe?

whether it is safe or not depends on the fusing

Jim A


You must be a wonderful electrician to be able to qualify the safety
or otherwise of a circuit without even seeing it!

Clark wrote:

A dishwasher shouldn't really be plugged in to a socket!

Since when?

David

On 26 Apr, 20:14, Axel G Axel wrote:

I had the floorboards up in my one-bed flat today, to check the
wiring, and noticed that the socket circuit is not the usual "ring"
configuration. It simply has a 2.5 sq.mm T&E cable coming from the
fuse box, going to a connector block from which run three spurs: One
goes to a double socket in the lounge (for TV, Hi-Fi, etc). One goes
to my study (for computer gear, electric fan, etc) and the 3rd spur
goes to a socket in the bedroom, and then on to a dual socket in the
kitchen. The dual socket in the kitchen feeds a microwave a toaster, a
dishwasher, a washing machine and an electric kettle.

Is the above cirquit safe? Or should I add another cable from the
kitchen socket going back to the meter, thus creating a proper "ring"
cirquit?

What is the point of a ring cirquit, per se? Is it just to split the
load between two cables?

Many thanks,

Ax

Sockets dont have to be on a ring circuit, but radials need to be
fused at 20A at most, and youve got a heck of a lot of load on a 2.5mm
T&E radial.

Making part of it into a ring would improve it considerably, with the
kitchen feed part of the ring.


NT

"Clark" wrote in message
...

"Jim Alexander" wrote in message
. uk...

"Axel G" Axel wrote in message
...

I had the floorboards up in my one-bed flat today, to check the
wiring, and noticed that the socket circuit is not the usual "ring"
configuration. It simply has a 2.5 sq.mm T&E cable coming from the
fuse box, going to a connector block from which run three spurs: One
goes to a double socket in the lounge (for TV, Hi-Fi, etc). One goes
to my study (for computer gear, electric fan, etc) and the 3rd spur
goes to a socket in the bedroom, and then on to a dual socket in the
kitchen. The dual socket in the kitchen feeds a microwave a toaster, a
dishwasher, a washing machine and an electric kettle.

Is the above cirquit safe?

whether it is safe or not depends on the fusing

Jim A


Wrong. It depends on the area covered and the expected load as to whether
it should be ring or radial. Socket circuits are 30A and cable size
2.5mm.
What he has is perfectly acceptable, if worried he could always run
another cable from the end socket back to the consumer unit and put it in
parallel.
A dishwasher shouldn't really be plugged in to a socket!
No way of telling if your wiring is safe without pictures or inspecting
it.
You have no chance of getting "compensation" by claiming it's unsafe, so
don't let anyone put that idea in your head.

You should really have a nice new split load consumer unit with MCBs and
the new harmonised wiring.



Jim is right:

If the 2.5mm2 is overcurrent protected by a 20A protective device then the
circuit is safe.

Furthermore, if the circuit is covering maximum floor area of 50m2, which
from his description of a one bedroom flat is reasonably likely, then it is
a standard circuit arrangement per Table 8A in the On-Site Guide.

The "connector block" sounds rather suspect - this should be a purpose-made
junction box not taped up "choccie block"

However, a circuit should be correctly designed for it's intended function
and I can't imagine a 20A circuit would be adequate for a kettle, toaster
and washing machine at the same time!

I would install a new 30/32A 2.5mm2 ring final circuit for the kitchen with
several extra sockets or spurs for the fixed appliances (one socket cannot
be enough, OSG suggests 6 to 10!) and leave the lounge/bedroom/study on a
20A radial.

On 2007-04-26 21:50:08 +0100, "Clark" said:


"Jim Alexander" wrote in message
. uk...

"Axel G" Axel wrote in message
...

I had the floorboards up in my one-bed flat today, to check the
wiring, and noticed that the socket circuit is not the usual "ring"
configuration. It simply has a 2.5 sq.mm T&E cable coming from the
fuse box, going to a connector block from which run three spurs: One
goes to a double socket in the lounge (for TV, Hi-Fi, etc). One goes
to my study (for computer gear, electric fan, etc) and the 3rd spur
goes to a socket in the bedroom, and then on to a dual socket in the
kitchen. The dual socket in the kitchen feeds a microwave a toaster, a
dishwasher, a washing machine and an electric kettle.

Is the above cirquit safe?

whether it is safe or not depends on the fusing

Jim A


Wrong. It depends on the area covered and the expected load as to whether
it should be ring or radial. Socket circuits are 30A and cable size 2.5mm.

Rubbish.

They have protection at 32A if ring final circuits and either 20A or
32A depending on cable size for radial circuits.

Either may be chosen. If a radial circuit has been implemented and
protected at 20A, then as long as there are not contraventions of other
rules this can be a safe installation. The sockets on a radial circuit
can be connected as required.


What he has is perfectly acceptable, if worried he could always run another
cable from the end socket back to the consumer unit and put it in parallel.

That's nonsense. It is not necessariy the case that running a
parallel cable from one socket back to the CU will legitimise the
circuit as a whole by creating a ring final circuit because the created
circuit may still have other non conforming issues.



A dishwasher shouldn't really be plugged in to a socket!

Nonsense. It can be plugged into a socket or connected to an FCU.


No way of telling if your wiring is safe without pictures or inspecting it.
You have no chance of getting "compensation" by claiming it's unsafe, so
don't let anyone put that idea in your head.

Who said anything about compensation?



You should really have a nice new split load consumer unit with MCBs and the
new harmonised wiring.

There may be wiring to the old colour standard and hence special
requirements to indicate the presence of both. The new colours do not
inherently make an installation safer.

The consumer unit is another issue.

On 2007-04-26 23:20:21 +0100, said:

On 26 Apr, 20:14, Axel G Axel wrote:

I had the floorboards up in my one-bed flat today, to check the
wiring, and noticed that the socket circuit is not the usual "ring"
configuration. It simply has a 2.5 sq.mm T&E cable coming from the
fuse box, going to a connector block from which run three spurs: One
goes to a double socket in the lounge (for TV, Hi-Fi, etc). One goes
to my study (for computer gear, electric fan, etc) and the 3rd spur
goes to a socket in the bedroom, and then on to a dual socket in the
kitchen. The dual socket in the kitchen feeds a microwave a toaster, a
dishwasher, a washing machine and an electric kettle.

Is the above cirquit safe? Or should I add another cable from the
kitchen socket going back to the meter, thus creating a proper "ring"
cirquit?

What is the point of a ring cirquit, per se? Is it just to split the
load between two cables?

Many thanks,

Ax

Sockets dont have to be on a ring circuit, but radials need to be
fused at 20A at most, and youve got a heck of a lot of load on a 2.5mm
T&E radial.

Making part of it into a ring would improve it considerably, with the
kitchen feed part of the ring.


NT

Actually they can be fused at 32A as long as the wiring is in 4mm^2 for
phase conductors, with 2.5mm^2 CPC (i.e. 4mm^2 T&E) and the floor area
75 m^2.

On 2007-04-26 20:14:03 +0100, Axel G Axel said:


I had the floorboards up in my one-bed flat today, to check the
wiring, and noticed that the socket circuit is not the usual "ring"
configuration. It simply has a 2.5 sq.mm T&E cable coming from the
fuse box, going to a connector block from which run three spurs: One
goes to a double socket in the lounge (for TV, Hi-Fi, etc). One goes
to my study (for computer gear, electric fan, etc) and the 3rd spur
goes to a socket in the bedroom, and then on to a dual socket in the
kitchen. The dual socket in the kitchen feeds a microwave a toaster, a
dishwasher, a washing machine and an electric kettle.

Is the above cirquit safe? Or should I add another cable from the
kitchen socket going back to the meter, thus creating a proper "ring"
cirquit?

What is the point of a ring cirquit, per se? Is it just to split the
load between two cables?

Many thanks,

Ax

The best approaches would be to

a) Re-arrange the wiring to form two rings - one for bedroom and study
and the other for kitchen with separate 32A MCBs at the consumer unit

or

b) Home run each room's wiring back to the CU with a MCB of 20A for
each. This is a radial circuit and you can have multiple sockets daisy
chained on it.

This does ring warning alarm bells that the wiring may not have been
done properly in other ways so...

- Check for earth bonding wiring to metalwork in the bathroom

- Check that there is bonding of services (gas and water) via earth
wiring back to the main earthing terminal at the CU.

- Other "connector blocks". Chocolate block connectors loose under
foors are not acceptable.

These problems are not hard to fix if you know what you are looking for
and have the information. You have spotted one obvious wrong thing.
Obviously if you are not certain, don't take risks.

wrote:

Sockets dont have to be on a ring circuit, but radials need to be
fused at 20A at most,

No, the standard A2 radial circuit protected at 30 or 32 A, using 4 mm^2
cable and serving up to 75 m^2 floor area is also permitted.

--
Andy

Clark wrote:

A dishwasher shouldn't really be plugged in to a socket!

Electric ones can be.

--
Andy

On 2007-04-27 00:00:27 +0100, Andy Wade said:

Clark wrote:

A dishwasher shouldn't really be plugged in to a socket!

Electric ones can be.

Cue. Why do brides wear white? joke.

Andy Hall wrote:

Cue. Why do brides wear white? joke.

Your answer can be found on Google, three times.

--
Andy

In message , Axel G
writes
I had the floorboards up in my one-bed flat today, to check the wiring,
and noticed that the socket circuit is not the usual "ring"
configuration. It simply has a 2.5 sq.mm T&E cable coming from the fuse
box, going to a connector block from which run three spurs: One goes to
a double socket in the lounge (for TV, Hi-Fi, etc). One goes to my
study (for computer gear, electric fan, etc) and the 3rd spur goes to
a socket in the bedroom, and then on to a dual socket in the kitchen.
The dual socket in the kitchen feeds a microwave a toaster, a
dishwasher, a washing machine and an electric kettle.

Is the above cirquit safe? Or should I add another cable from the
kitchen socket going back to the meter, thus creating a proper "ring"
cirquit?

That is a pretty high load in the kitchen. (As always.)

If this radial arrangement is wired in 2.5mm cable and protected at 16
or 20A then it's safe (quality of "joint" and wiring permitting). If
it's fused or otherwise protected at 32A then the cable may be running
hot under full load and the load needs spread. With such a high load in
the kitchen alone I bet the fuse has been wired with 32A wire or a 32A
breaker has been fitted.

At the very least it would be better to give the kitchen it's own 20A
fused supply, but that's not a lot given the amount of appliances even
given the short duty cycle of things like toasters and kettles. A new
32A ring main and a few more sockets would make life in the kitchen more
tolerable.

The point of a ring main is to spread the load between two smaller
cables allowing easier wiring and termination then a heavy radial
circuit.


--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

Clive Mitchell wrote:

The point of a ring main is to spread the load between two smaller
cables allowing easier wiring and termination then a heavy radial
circuit.

I think the original intent when they were first introduced into the
Wiring Regulations was as a means to save copper.

--
Chris Green

On 27 Apr 2007 08:05:54 GMT, mused:

Clive Mitchell wrote:

The point of a ring main is to spread the load between two smaller
cables allowing easier wiring and termination then a heavy radial
circuit.

I think the original intent when they were first introduced into the
Wiring Regulations was as a means to save copper.

Ring mains were originally introduced as an easy way of converting the
very common 15A radial circuit into a 30A circuit for being able to
plug new fangled electric heaters and such like in. You'd do this by
running a cable from the end of the radial back to the consumer unit
and sticking a 30A fuse in it rather than rewiring the whole circuit.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On 2007-04-27 00:20:34 +0100, Andy Wade said:

Andy Hall wrote:

Cue. Why do brides wear white? joke.

Your answer can be found on Google, three times.

One has to keep an eye open for opportunity...... :-)

In article .com,
Mr Fuxit wrote:
whether it is safe or not depends on the fusing

You must be a wonderful electrician to be able to qualify the safety
or otherwise of a circuit without even seeing it!

Err, what other purpose do you thing a 'fuse' has?

--
*I'm really easy to get along with once people learn to worship me

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Lurch wrote:
Ring mains were originally introduced as an easy way of converting the
very common 15A radial circuit into a 30A circuit for being able to
plug new fangled electric heaters and such like in. You'd do this by
running a cable from the end of the radial back to the consumer unit
and sticking a 30A fuse in it rather than rewiring the whole circuit.

I'm not so sure - electric heating was around long before rings which were
a post WW2 device - or at least only became common then. Several birds
were killed with one stone - the standardisation of an outlet for any
portable appliance, rather than the many before. More economical use of
cable. And the ability to have near limitless outlets - since in practice
domestically few would be loaded to maximum. That it predated the hundreds
of low current appliances we all have now was simply brilliant foresight.
Or luck.

--
*A conscience is what hurts when all your other parts feel so good *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:55:17 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
mused:

In article ,
Lurch wrote:
Ring mains were originally introduced as an easy way of converting the
very common 15A radial circuit into a 30A circuit for being able to
plug new fangled electric heaters and such like in. You'd do this by
running a cable from the end of the radial back to the consumer unit
and sticking a 30A fuse in it rather than rewiring the whole circuit.

I'm not so sure - electric heating was around long before rings which were
a post WW2 device - or at least only became common then. Several birds
were killed with one stone - the standardisation of an outlet for any
portable appliance, rather than the many before. More economical use of
cable. And the ability to have near limitless outlets - since in practice
domestically few would be loaded to maximum. That it predated the hundreds
of low current appliances we all have now was simply brilliant foresight.
Or luck.

Well, whether it was heating or not, the idea behind the ring being
easily achievable by running an extra cable form the end of a radial
was the main point in the post.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

Lurch wrote:

Well, whether it was heating or not, the idea behind the ring being
easily achievable by running an extra cable form the end of a radial
was the main point in the post.

http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/...d_soc ket.pdf
is an interesting read.

I quote:

The ring final circuit
----------------------
It was decided during this study that the alternative of providing a
separate circuit fused at 15 amperes for each principal room which would
feed all socket-outlets in that room: "is attractive as compared with
pre-war practices but is less flexible in installation than the
ring-circuit, provides less flexibility in loading and, except possibly
in the smaller type of house, is not so economical."
It was realised that a post-war Britain would continue to suffer from a
massive shortage of raw materials and it was estimated that the proposed
changes to the ring-circuit and single-pole fusing would show a saving
of approximately 25% compared with pre-war regulations. The opportunity
to improve both consumer safety and convenience due to the interruption
in new building during the war and the massive programme of building
which would be required after the war was recognised at an early
stage. Initially, a majority favoured a new British Standard for a 10 A,
fused, shuttered socket-outlet and a plug with round pins conforming to
BS 546. The final unanimous decision was for a 3 kW (230V; 13 A)
socket-outlet with fused plugs.

--
Andy

In article ,
Lurch wrote:
I'm not so sure - electric heating was around long before rings which
were a post WW2 device - or at least only became common then. Several
birds were killed with one stone - the standardisation of an outlet for
any portable appliance, rather than the many before. More economical
use of cable. And the ability to have near limitless outlets - since in
practice domestically few would be loaded to maximum. That it predated
the hundreds of low current appliances we all have now was simply
brilliant foresight. Or luck.

Well, whether it was heating or not, the idea behind the ring being
easily achievable by running an extra cable form the end of a radial
was the main point in the post.

Again I'm not so sure. I'd say very few had radials converted to rings -
after all pre-war 15 amp radials frequently didn't have earths. My
parent's house was built in the mid '30s and they specified one power
point (15 amp) in each room, but these were two pin.
Rings were normally installed on new builds or refurbishment - many such
needed after WW2.

--
*Why is it considered necessary to screw down the lid of a coffin?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , Lurch
writes
Ring mains were originally introduced as an easy way of converting the
very common 15A radial circuit into a 30A circuit for being able to
plug new fangled electric heaters and such like in.

So what was wrong with plugging the heaters into the lamp sockets with
those lovely Bakelite bayonet cap plugs?

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

On 26 Apr, 20:14, Axel G Axel wrote:
I had the floorboards up in my one-bed flat today, to check the
wiring, and noticed that the socket circuit is not the usual "ring"
configuration. It simply has a 2.5 sq.mm T&E cable coming from the
fuse box, going to a connector block from which run three spurs: One
goes to a double socket in the lounge (for TV, Hi-Fi, etc). One goes
to my study (for computer gear, electric fan, etc) and the 3rd spur
goes to a socket in the bedroom, and then on to a dual socket in the
kitchen. The dual socket in the kitchen feeds a microwave a toaster, a
dishwasher, a washing machine and an electric kettle.


How?

Do you plug/umplg each applience into the dual socket, or do you have
some kind of "adapter" to allow you to plug them all in at once?

Is this a rented flat?

In article ,
Owain wrote:
No, actually you'd join the end of one radial circuit to the end of
another radial circuit and add some more sockets on the new bit.

The less conscientous would leave the fusing as 15A on each leg...

On both poles...

--
*If I throw a stick, will you leave?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2007-04-27 10:57:26 +0100, Owain said:

Andy Hall wrote:
One has to keep an eye open for opportunity...... :-)

Who rarely comes knocking at the same time as means and motive.

Owain

Exactly.

On 27 Apr 2007 02:59:28 -0700, wrote:

On 26 Apr, 20:14, Axel G Axel wrote:
I had the floorboards up in my one-bed flat today, to check the
wiring, and noticed that the socket circuit is not the usual "ring"
configuration. It simply has a 2.5 sq.mm T&E cable coming from the
fuse box, going to a connector block from which run three spurs: One
goes to a double socket in the lounge (for TV, Hi-Fi, etc). One goes
to my study (for computer gear, electric fan, etc) and the 3rd spur
goes to a socket in the bedroom, and then on to a dual socket in the
kitchen. The dual socket in the kitchen feeds a microwave a toaster, a
dishwasher, a washing machine and an electric kettle.


How?

Do you plug/umplg each applience into the dual socket, or do you have
some kind of "adapter" to allow you to plug them all in at once?

Yes, I have to confess, there is actually currently only one double
socket in the kitchen. From this, I have two extention leads: one
feeds the washing machine and the dishwasher. The other is fixed just
above the work top, and has four sockets feeding the kettle, toaster,
mike, and kettle.

Is this a rented flat?

It will be soon.

Thank you to all for the helpful responses.

Axel G

In article ,
Axel G Axel wrote:
Do you plug/umplg each applience into the dual socket, or do you have
some kind of "adapter" to allow you to plug them all in at once?

Yes, I have to confess, there is actually currently only one double
socket in the kitchen. From this, I have two extention leads: one
feeds the washing machine and the dishwasher. The other is fixed just
above the work top, and has four sockets feeding the kettle, toaster,
mike, and kettle.

Do some sums by adding up the maximum load of each of these - the washing
machine and dishwasher can easily exceed the 13 amps allowed on an
extension if both used together and both heating water. Likewise the
kettle and toaster. I'm surprised you don't have fuses constantly blowing.

Is this a rented flat?

It will be soon.

Then it really needs sorting. You might be capable of knowing not to use
the washing machine and dishwasher together but a tenant likely won't, and
shouldn't be expected to.

And FWIW I'd consider any multi outlet extension in a kitchen a safety
hazard and I'd bet your local fire service would too.

Thank you to all for the helpful responses.

--
*Always borrow money from pessimists - they don't expect it back *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:38:55 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


Is this a rented flat?

It will be soon.

Then it really needs sorting. You might be capable of knowing not to use
the washing machine and dishwasher together but a tenant likely won't, and
shouldn't be expected to.

And FWIW I'd consider any multi outlet extension in a kitchen a safety
hazard and I'd bet your local fire service would too.

Yes. I reckon I'll add two double sockets above the work top and from
there run 2.5mm cable back to the CU and use a 32 amp fuse then. It
will end up being a normal ring main except for the office spur, going
off from a junction box.

One question: I'll need to run the cables up the back of the kitchen
units - emerging from behind the top of the skirting board and going
vertically up to the new double sockets, just above worktop level. Is
it OK to use plastic trunking in this sort of situation? In fact, is
trunking essential at all, if the cable is behind the units?

Thanks,

Axel

In article ,
Andy Wade writes:
Lurch wrote:

Well, whether it was heating or not, the idea behind the ring being
easily achievable by running an extra cable form the end of a radial
was the main point in the post.

http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/...d_soc ket.pdf
is an interesting read.

Elektor magazine did an interesting article on the history
of the 13A plug/socket on its 50th birthday, 1996 IIRC.
On the basis that I never through such things out, I will
still have it somewhere, but finding it might not be easy.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 27 Apr, 10:48, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Again I'm not so sure. I'd say very few had radials converted to rings -
after all pre-war 15 amp radials frequently didn't have earths. My
parent's house was built in the mid '30s and they specified one power
point (15 amp) in each room, but these were two pin.
Rings were normally installed on new builds or refurbishment - many such
needed after WW2.

Although few 15A radial to 30A ring conversions occurred IRL, that was
one of the considerations.

However the idea was not to run a 2nd wire back to the fusebox, but
rather to join a cable from one 15A socket to another one on another
fuse. So the original rings were on 2x 15A fuses, not 1x 30A. A semi-
horrible situation, but a real improvement on 15A radials.

In practice of course hardly anyone did this, they left it as is until
the eventual rewire decades later, meanwhile using all sorts of
horrible bodgery. Slightly dodgy things remained on sale in the shops
until early 70s. People made the really bad ones themselves. I still
remember various short leads, including one that was a 2A plug to a
15A socket!


NT