Well, one i've not heard of before anyways.....

Friends in the next village (Broadbridge heath, West Sussex) have a
Dell PC conncted to orange broadband via the USB ADSL modem supplied
by Orange.

For about a week now they have been unable to use the connection
except when they are using the phone for a voice call.

They have tried :

Plugging the modem directly into the master socket (well, via a
filter) with all other exts unplugged.

Trying 3 different micofilters.

Spendijng ages on the phone to Orange Broadband at some extortionate
cost checking and re-checking settings.

Getting BT to check the line (supposedly ok).

Anyone seen this before and know what the problem is?

wrote:
Well, one i've not heard of before anyways.....

Friends in the next village (Broadbridge heath, West Sussex) have a
Dell PC conncted to orange broadband via the USB ADSL modem supplied
by Orange.

For about a week now they have been unable to use the connection
except when they are using the phone for a voice call.

They have tried :

Plugging the modem directly into the master socket (well, via a
filter) with all other exts unplugged.

Trying 3 different micofilters.

Spendijng ages on the phone to Orange Broadband at some extortionate
cost checking and re-checking settings.

Getting BT to check the line (supposedly ok).

Anyone seen this before and know what the problem is?

How about trying another known working USB ADSL modem?

On 25 Mar 2007 07:20:12 -0700, wrote:

Well, one i've not heard of before anyways.....

Friends in the next village (Broadbridge heath, West Sussex) have a
Dell PC conncted to orange broadband via the USB ADSL modem supplied
by Orange.

For about a week now they have been unable to use the connection
except when they are using the phone for a voice call.

They have tried :

Plugging the modem directly into the master socket (well, via a
filter) with all other exts unplugged.

Trying 3 different micofilters.

Spendijng ages on the phone to Orange Broadband at some extortionate
cost checking and re-checking settings.

Getting BT to check the line (supposedly ok).

Anyone seen this before and know what the problem is?

You could try taking the faceplate off the master socket and plugging the filter
into the BT part, that would eliminate any internal wiring.

Andy

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 14:20:12 UTC, wrote:

Well, one i've not heard of before anyways.....

Friends in the next village (Broadbridge heath, West Sussex) have a
Dell PC conncted to orange broadband via the USB ADSL modem supplied
by Orange.

For about a week now they have been unable to use the connection
except when they are using the phone for a voice call.

If you look back in the group, there are many instances of this. Usually
due to a bad/dry joint somewhere on the line. Using the phone sticks
some current down the line and temporarily makes the bad joint work a
bit better.

BT need to do some more specialist work on the line, I guess. Good luck
getting Orange to agree to ask them, though.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On 25 Mar 2007 07:20:12 -0700, wrote:

Well, one i've not heard of before anyways.....

Friends in the next village (Broadbridge heath, West Sussex) have a
Dell PC conncted to orange broadband via the USB ADSL modem supplied
by Orange.

For about a week now they have been unable to use the connection
except when they are using the phone for a voice call.

They have tried :

Plugging the modem directly into the master socket (well, via a
filter) with all other exts unplugged.

Trying 3 different micofilters.

Spendijng ages on the phone to Orange Broadband at some extortionate
cost checking and re-checking settings.

Getting BT to check the line (supposedly ok).

Anyone seen this before and know what the problem is?

Get them to re-check that every other extension really was unplugged, as
the broadband only working when on a voicecall was exactly the symptom my
sister-in-law had when she'd missed an extension in the kitchen.

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 25 Mar 2007 07:20:12 -0700, wrote:

Well, one i've not heard of before anyways.....

Friends in the next village (Broadbridge heath, West Sussex) have a
Dell PC conncted to orange broadband via the USB ADSL modem supplied
by Orange.

For about a week now they have been unable to use the connection
except when they are using the phone for a voice call.

They have tried :

Plugging the modem directly into the master socket (well, via a
filter) with all other exts unplugged.

Trying 3 different micofilters.

Spendijng ages on the phone to Orange Broadband at some extortionate
cost checking and re-checking settings.

Getting BT to check the line (supposedly ok).

Anyone seen this before and know what the problem is?

Get them to re-check that every other extension really was unplugged, as
the broadband only working when on a voicecall was exactly the symptom my
sister-in-law had when she'd missed an extension in the kitchen.

I just had something a bit similar; BT kept insisting the auto test showed
the line OK even when it was almost too noisy to talk on. In my case I kept
posting faults on the web site and, to be fair, a technical person (not a
helpdesk) calls and talks you through faceplate removal, etc. They are a bit
nervous about coming out to find the problem is "your" side and then either
carrying the cost of the call-out, or having trouble getting you to pay for
the repair.

In my case, having proved it was an "outside" (i.e. their) problem they came
along and fixed it. It might be an inside problem though.

On 25 Mar 2007 07:20:12 -0700, wrote:

For about a week now they have been unable to use the connection
except when they are using the phone for a voice call.

snip

Anyone seen this before and know what the problem is?

Actually, yes. In the occasion I saw it it was a line fault - but it
was difficult convincing BT of this.

I have heard of the same thing happening due to a faulty filter,
though, so given that they only cost a couple of quid it might well be
worth trying that first.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Neil Williams wrote:
On 25 Mar 2007 07:20:12 -0700, wrote:

For about a week now they have been unable to use the connection
except when they are using the phone for a voice call.

snip

Anyone seen this before and know what the problem is?

Actually, yes. In the occasion I saw it it was a line fault - but it
was difficult convincing BT of this.

I have heard of the same thing happening due to a faulty filter,
though, so given that they only cost a couple of quid it might well be
worth trying that first.

Neil

Remember that an on-hook telephone is IIRC a shorted phone. More or
less. The point of the filter is not not make it shorted with respect to
high frequencies.. if taking a phone off stats the broadband, the filter
is not in the right place or not doing its job.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Remember that an on-hook telephone is IIRC a shorted phone.

YDNRC. An on-hook phone looks like a highish impedance, essentially the
impedance of the bell or ringer. For a REN of 1 the impedance is about
4 kohm at ringing frequency. At DC an on-hook phone should appear an an
open-circuit. But, as you imply, all this is irrelevant if the
filtering is working OK.

if taking a phone off stats the broadband, the filter
is not in the right place or not doing its job.

Or, as already noted, the DC line current is 'wetting' an intermittent
connection in the exchange line, reducing attenuation and/or
intermodulation of the HF DSL signal.

--
Andy

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Remember that an on-hook telephone is IIRC a shorted phone. More or
less. The point of the filter is not not make it shorted with respect to
high frequencies.. if taking a phone off stats the broadband, the filter
is not in the right place or not doing its job.

Hmm. My broadband works without any filter and with all the many phones on
their rests. The filter(s) is/are to stop the ADSL carrier interfering
with the phones - not the other way round.

--
*Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off NOW.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:04:43 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Remember that an on-hook telephone is IIRC a shorted phone.

It's t' other way round. that's why you can measure the line voltage
with a phone plugged in. If a phone represented a short you could
never have extensions wired in parallel.

More or
less. The point of the filter is not not make it shorted with respect to
high frequencies.. if taking a phone off stats the broadband, the filter
is not in the right place or not doing its job.

Hmm. My broadband works without any filter and with all the many phones on
their rests. The filter(s) is/are to stop the ADSL carrier interfering
with the phones - not the other way round.

No it's to stop a loop disconnect phone shorting the line (at carrier
frequency, it doesn't stop the DC) at 10 pps whilst it's dialling,
causing the modem/router to retrain.

No doubt the adsl carrier is at a supersonic frequency but what effect
it would have on an electronic phone is anybody's guess.

DG

On 26 Mar 2007 08:54:35 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2007-03-26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Remember that an on-hook telephone is IIRC a shorted phone. More or
less. The point of the filter is not not make it shorted with respect to
high frequencies.. if taking a phone off stats the broadband, the filter
is not in the right place or not doing its job.

Hmm. My broadband works without any filter and with all the many phones on
their rests. The filter(s) is/are to stop the ADSL carrier interfering
with the phones - not the other way round.

OTOH, until we got a filtering master socket, my broadband didn't work at
all. No matter what you did with the phones. Despite the fact that all
the internal wiring was installed by BT.

That *has to be* a wiring error.

DG

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Remember that an on-hook telephone is IIRC a shorted phone. More or
less. The point of the filter is not not make it shorted with respect to
high frequencies.. if taking a phone off stats the broadband, the filter
is not in the right place or not doing its job.

Hmm. My broadband works without any filter and with all the many phones on
their rests. The filter(s) is/are to stop the ADSL carrier interfering
with the phones - not the other way round.

That depends on what is inside the phone.

On 26 Mar 2007 10:07:38 GMT, Huge wrote:

That *has to be* a wiring error.

The matter is of no interest to me, especially since (i) it has been
"fixed" by the fitment of a master socket filter, (ii) I would have
to pay someone to investigate it.

If BT did the wiring they should fix it for free, or that is to say,
for the expenditure of an *Infinite* amount of hassle on your part.

;-)

DG

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Hmm. My broadband works without any filter and with all the many
phones on their rests. The filter(s) is/are to stop the ADSL carrier
interfering with the phones - not the other way round.

That depends on what is inside the phone.

Well, there's a goodly selection on this line including an old one.
Although of course it is filtered now with one at the master socket and a
router fed directly off that. But when first playing with it my results
were as above.

--
*Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:04:43 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The filter(s) is/are to stop the ADSL carrier interfering with the
phones - not the other way round.

ADSL carriers, plural. Upstream starts near 25 KHz up to around 138 kHz
and the downstream from there right up to about 1.1MHz in 4 kHz (or there
abouts) steps. This is for the now common 8 Mbps service. The 24 Mbps
service doubles the top frequency to 2.2 MHz. Which is why it doesn't work
any better than the 8 Mbps service once the local loop is about a mile
long.

The filter is to stop phones shunting the low level RF carriers rather
than them interfering with the POTS.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In article om,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
The filter(s) is/are to stop the ADSL carrier interfering with the
phones - not the other way round.

ADSL carriers, plural. Upstream starts near 25 KHz up to around 138 kHz
and the downstream from there right up to about 1.1MHz in 4 kHz (or there
abouts) steps. This is for the now common 8 Mbps service. The 24 Mbps
service doubles the top frequency to 2.2 MHz. Which is why it doesn't work
any better than the 8 Mbps service once the local loop is about a mile
long.

The filter is to stop phones shunting the low level RF carriers rather
than them interfering with the POTS.

Have you tried using a phone on an ADSL line without a filter? It soon
hurts...

All I can say is mine worked on test without a filter. Maybe not as fast
as it could, but worked.

--
*Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.