Posts in the ground
 

It occurs to me that any wooden post concreted into a hole in the ground is
going to rot eventually, tanalised or whatever - it's got to be a matter of
time.

The worst area is going to be the end grain by my reckoning, since end grain
is the most absorbent and is going to absorb moisture faster than any other
part of the post.

Soaking the end in wood preserver is one option, but are there others?

A couple of inches of gravel in the bottom of the hole would provide a
natural drain, but might weaken the installation.

Wrapping the post in a plastic bag could work, but again might weaken the
installation because the concrete wouldn't bond to the post.

Piece of DPM in the bottom of the hole?

Any thoughts?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

Posts in the ground
 

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
The Medway Handyman wrote:

It occurs to me that any wooden post concreted into a hole in the
ground is going to rot eventually, tanalised or whatever - it's got
to be a matter of time.

The worst area is going to be the end grain by my reckoning, since
end grain is the most absorbent and is going to absorb moisture
faster than any other part of the post.

Soaking the end in wood preserver is one option, but are there others?


Cut the end off? g [1]

Seriously, it's much less of a problem with pressure treated timer than it
used to be with untreated timber. I've got some tanalised posts which were
concreted in about 25 years ago, and are still going strong. One or two got
dug up last year to make way for a new garage, and the timber inside the
concrete looked perfectly ok.

[1] Using the same logic as the Irishman who moved house by 10 miles because
he read that most accidents occur within 5 miles of home!
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Posts in the ground
 

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
o.uk...
It occurs to me that any wooden post concreted into a hole in the ground
is going to rot eventually, tanalised or whatever - it's got to be a
matter of time.

The worst area is going to be the end grain by my reckoning, since end
grain is the most absorbent and is going to absorb moisture faster than
any other part of the post.

Soaking the end in wood preserver is one option, but are there others?

A couple of inches of gravel in the bottom of the hole would provide a
natural drain, but might weaken the installation.

Wrapping the post in a plastic bag could work, but again might weaken the
installation because the concrete wouldn't bond to the post.

Piece of DPM in the bottom of the hole?

Any thoughts?


Hi Dave, I concreted our 3" posts in 18+ years ago and although painted with
preserver at the time and subsequently with a mix of old oil etc they are
now rotting, with the last gales fracturing some posts. They rotted just at
ground level and not apparently lower down. I expected to just chip out the
post remains and slot in another but the wood appears quite sound with
initial drillings revealing sound wood.

Gio

Posts in the ground
 

The Medway Handyman wrote:
It occurs to me that any wooden post concreted into a hole in the ground is
going to rot eventually, tanalised or whatever - it's got to be a matter of
time.

The worst area is going to be the end grain by my reckoning, since end grain
is the most absorbent and is going to absorb moisture faster than any other
part of the post.

Soaking the end in wood preserver is one option, but are there others?

A couple of inches of gravel in the bottom of the hole would provide a
natural drain, but might weaken the installation.

Wrapping the post in a plastic bag could work, but again might weaken the
installation because the concrete wouldn't bond to the post.

Piece of DPM in the bottom of the hole?

Any thoughts?



Candle wax is probably the best sealant for end grain but IME posts in
concrete mostly rot at ground level where water sits due to vegetation
or soil build up. Plastic causes sweating.
The post (sorry!)on here recently about setting them in gravel/cement
was interesting.

Posts in the ground
 

On 2007-03-21 22:51:52 +0000, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

It occurs to me that any wooden post concreted into a hole in the ground is
going to rot eventually, tanalised or whatever - it's got to be a matter of
time.

The worst area is going to be the end grain by my reckoning, since end grain
is the most absorbent and is going to absorb moisture faster than any other
part of the post.

Soaking the end in wood preserver is one option, but are there others?

A couple of inches of gravel in the bottom of the hole would provide a
natural drain, but might weaken the installation.

Wrapping the post in a plastic bag could work, but again might weaken the
installation because the concrete wouldn't bond to the post.

Piece of DPM in the bottom of the hole?

Any thoughts?

Yep. That longlived and rot free species Postus Concretia Reinforcii

Posts in the ground
 

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
o.uk...
It occurs to me that any wooden post concreted into a hole in the ground
is going to rot eventually, tanalised or whatever - it's got to be a
matter of time.

The worst area is going to be the end grain by my reckoning, since end
grain is the most absorbent and is going to absorb moisture faster than
any other part of the post.

Soaking the end in wood preserver is one option, but are there others?

A couple of inches of gravel in the bottom of the hole would provide a
natural drain, but might weaken the installation.

Wrapping the post in a plastic bag could work, but again might weaken the
installation because the concrete wouldn't bond to the post.

Piece of DPM in the bottom of the hole?

Any thoughts?

A traditional approach used to be to char the end of the post in a fire for
a while before putting it in the hole. The charring produced turpentines
that preserved the wood and the wood tars helped to keep the moisture from
the heart of the wood.

Posts in the ground
 

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
o.uk...
It occurs to me that any wooden post concreted into a hole in the ground
is going to rot eventually, tanalised or whatever - it's got to be a
matter of time.

The worst area is going to be the end grain by my reckoning, since end
grain is the most absorbent and is going to absorb moisture faster than
any other part of the post.

Soaking the end in wood preserver is one option, but are there others?

A couple of inches of gravel in the bottom of the hole would provide a
natural drain, but might weaken the installation.

Wrapping the post in a plastic bag could work, but again might weaken the
installation because the concrete wouldn't bond to the post.

Piece of DPM in the bottom of the hole?

Any thoughts?

Solutions I have used:

1) Use concrete - lasts about 60-70 years, to judge from the age of the ones
I had to replace.
2) Use oak - not a lot more expensive than pressure treated softwood and no
signs of any deterioration in the supports 10 years after I built a pergola
of it.
3) Wrap the post at ground level - a bit below and a bit above - with the
bitumen backed foil sold for flashing repairs. I find gentle warming with a
hot air gun on the bitumen side before application makes it stick and seal
very well. Adds, perhaps, a couple of years to the life of an ordinary
wooden post.

Colin Bignell

Posts in the ground
 

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
o.uk...
It occurs to me that any wooden post concreted into a hole in the ground
is going to rot eventually, tanalised or whatever - it's got to be a
matter of time.

Any thoughts?


I've extended the effective life of timber fence posts by reinforcing them
with angled brace posts, obviously taking space on my side of the fence.
This made the post much more resistant to wind forces and has probably
slowed the break-up of the fence panels.

--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Posts in the ground
 

OG wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
o.uk...
It occurs to me that any wooden post concreted into a hole in the ground
is going to rot eventually, tanalised or whatever - it's got to be a
matter of time.

The worst area is going to be the end grain by my reckoning, since end
grain is the most absorbent and is going to absorb moisture faster than
any other part of the post.

Soaking the end in wood preserver is one option, but are there others?

A couple of inches of gravel in the bottom of the hole would provide a
natural drain, but might weaken the installation.

Wrapping the post in a plastic bag could work, but again might weaken the
installation because the concrete wouldn't bond to the post.

Piece of DPM in the bottom of the hole?

Any thoughts?

A traditional approach used to be to char the end of the post in a fire for
a while before putting it in the hole. The charring produced turpentines
that preserved the wood and the wood tars helped to keep the moisture from
the heart of the wood.



Applying heat is a pretty good way of guaranteeing rot. The resin
migrates to the end grain and leaves the interior devoid of any natural
defence against moisture. A good reason for not burning paint off
exterior woodwork too.

Posts in the ground
 

Malcolm Stewart wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
o.uk...
It occurs to me that any wooden post concreted into a hole in the ground
is going to rot eventually, tanalised or whatever - it's got to be a
matter of time.

Any thoughts?


I've extended the effective life of timber fence posts by reinforcing them
with angled brace posts, obviously taking space on my side of the fence.
This made the post much more resistant to wind forces and has probably
slowed the break-up of the fence panels.


But don't the braces rot at the same rate as the posts?

Posts in the ground
 

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
Malcolm Stewart wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
o.uk...
It occurs to me that any wooden post concreted into a hole in the ground
is going to rot eventually, tanalised or whatever - it's got to be a
matter of time.

Any thoughts?


I've extended the effective life of timber fence posts by reinforcing
them with angled brace posts, obviously taking space on my side of the
fence. This made the post much more resistant to wind forces and has
probably slowed the break-up of the fence panels.


But don't the braces rot at the same rate as the posts?

Possibly, but because the design is braced there's far less stress on the
original post, and as far as I'm concerned my fence posts are lasting well.
(If they do go, there's a mass of shrubbery to remove to gain access for
digging etc!)

--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Posts in the ground
 

On Mar 21, 10:51 pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
It occurs to me that any wooden post concreted into a hole in the ground
is going to rot eventually, tanalised or whatever - it's got to be
a matter of time.
Yes. But it might be a VERY long time.

The worst area is going to be the end grain by my reckoning,
since end grain is the most absorbent and is going to absorb
moisture faster than any other part of the post.
No. This is wrong. The worst area is at ground level +/- a few
inches. This is the area that is rich in both moisture AND oxygen.
Higher up the wood dries out, lower down it becomes saturated and de-
oxygenated which stops the fungi growing.

Soaking the end in wood preserver is one option, but are there others?
Won't make much difference (see above).

[snip more ideas to protect a non-vunerable part of the post]
Any thoughts?
- Sloping the concrete to ensure water drains away from (not towards)
the post will help.
- Using tanalized timber (not untreated) will help.
- Using oak or chestnut (not softwood) will help.
- More exotic species could probably be even more effective and solid
mahogany gate posts would make a striking entrance feature.
- Concrete posts will last better than untreated softwood. I don't
know how they compare with tanalized or hardwood.