Can you still get 'oxygen bleach', and where from?

(This is a substance based on hydrogen peroxide, as opposed to the
usual sodium hypochlorite).

I've not seen it in the shops for a year or two, and a local
janitorial supplier hasn't heard of it, although bleach tends not to
be used for commercial cleaning IME.

I need it for cleaning my flat (actually a Housing Association bedsit
with shared laundry and bathroom), I don't use the normal stuff at
home because if it gets onto clothes it damages them, but for a lot of
cleaning jobs you can't beat bleach. I recently cured a bad smell in a
cleaning cupboard at work, by getting some bleach from the nearby
supermarket and putting it down the sink. Got all the stains out of
the porcelain too, which the approved chemicals wouldn't shift.

"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
oups.com...
Can you still get 'oxygen bleach', and where from?

(This is a substance based on hydrogen peroxide, as opposed to the
usual sodium hypochlorite).

Ask at the old bailey :-)

cheers,
clive

On 13 Feb, 00:59, "Clive George" wrote:
"alexander.keys1" wrote in message

oups.com...

Can you still get 'oxygen bleach', and where from?

(This is a substance based on hydrogen peroxide, as opposed to the
usual sodium hypochlorite).

Ask at the old bailey :-)

cheers,
clive

Do you mean it was withdrawn from sale because it can be used to make
explosives? I didn't know that.

"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 13 Feb, 00:59, "Clive George" wrote:
"alexander.keys1" wrote in message

oups.com...

Can you still get 'oxygen bleach', and where from?

(This is a substance based on hydrogen peroxide, as opposed to the
usual sodium hypochlorite).

Ask at the old bailey :-)

cheers,
clive

Do you mean it was withdrawn from sale because it can be used to make
explosives? I didn't know that.

Sorry, no idea, I was just being silly.

cheers,
clive

"alexander.keys1" wrote:

Can you still get 'oxygen bleach', and where from?

(This is a substance based on hydrogen peroxide, as opposed to the
usual sodium hypochlorite).

I've not seen it in the shops for a year or two, and a local
janitorial supplier hasn't heard of it, although bleach tends not to
be used for commercial cleaning IME.

I need it for cleaning my flat (actually a Housing Association bedsit
with shared laundry and bathroom), I don't use the normal stuff at
home because if it gets onto clothes it damages them, but for a lot of
cleaning jobs you can't beat bleach. I recently cured a bad smell in a
cleaning cupboard at work, by getting some bleach from the nearby
supermarket and putting it down the sink. Got all the stains out of
the porcelain too, which the approved chemicals wouldn't shift.

Sodium percarbonate, sodium perborate.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 00:59:27 -0000, "Clive George"
wrote:

|!"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
groups.com...
|! Can you still get 'oxygen bleach', and where from?
|!
|! (This is a substance based on hydrogen peroxide, as opposed to the
|! usual sodium hypochlorite).
|!
|!Ask at the old bailey :-)

IIRC Hairdressing wholesalers.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
20,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.org
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/
http://www.gutenberg.org/author/John_Hartley
http://www.gutenberg.org/author/F_W_Moorman

alexander.keys1 wrote:
Can you still get 'oxygen bleach', and where from?

(This is a substance based on hydrogen peroxide, as opposed to the
usual sodium hypochlorite).

I've not seen it in the shops for a year or two, and a local
janitorial supplier hasn't heard of it, although bleach tends not to
be used for commercial cleaning IME.

ISTR that its been advertised on the telly, but I can't recall the name of
the stuff (the power of advertising).

Advert where family arrive back from hols and demonstator grabs dirty
washing in middle of airport. Another ad features a market trader style
demo. In a pink tub?

Just found this; Cillit Bang Universal Power Cleaning Crystals
http://www.cillitbang.co.uk/faq.shtml


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
oups.com...
Can you still get 'oxygen bleach', and where from?

(This is a substance based on hydrogen peroxide, as opposed to the
usual sodium hypochlorite).

I've not seen it in the shops for a year or two, and a local
janitorial supplier hasn't heard of it, although bleach tends not to
be used for commercial cleaning IME.

I need it for cleaning my flat (actually a Housing Association bedsit
with shared laundry and bathroom), I don't use the normal stuff at
home because if it gets onto clothes it damages them, but for a lot of
cleaning jobs you can't beat bleach. I recently cured a bad smell in a
cleaning cupboard at work, by getting some bleach from the nearby
supermarket and putting it down the sink. Got all the stains out of
the porcelain too, which the approved chemicals wouldn't shift.


I've been looking out for oxygen bleach myself and wondering what's happened
to it.

I've not seen it for ages. It looks like it must've been withdrawn.

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 01:14:03 -0000, Clive George wrote:

Do you mean it was withdrawn from sale because it can be used to make
explosives? I didn't know that.

Sorry, no idea, I was just being silly.

I wouldn't be surprised. Better take all the sugar off the supermarket
shelves as well.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Uncle Al" wrote in message
...
[snip river of **** from Schwartzcyst]
Schwartz:
http://tinyurl.com/ck9r2

"Uncle ****wit" wrote in message
...

Newtonian physics is infinite lightspeed (instantaneous knowledge of
all aspects of a system),

You ****in' ignorant, stoooopid, LYING *******!

ROEMER,DOPPLER, MICHELSON, SAGNAC!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole_R%C3%B8mer

"Cassini had observed the moons of Jupiter between 1666 and 1668, and
discovered discrepancies in his measurements that, at first, he attributed
to light having a finite speed."

http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...mx4dummies.htm
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...nac/Sagnac.htm
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...er/Doppler.htm


Einstein: "we shall, however, find in what follows, that the velocity of
light in our theory plays the part, physically, of an infinitely great
velocity."
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/

Get the **** out of the river of ****, you are the biggest TORD in it, you
lying ****headed ****! Go and worship Nehemiah Scudder!
**** OFF and DIE!

This message is for *your* personal safety, brought to *you* by Dumbledore,
the computer of Androcles, having passed my Turing Test
using Uncle Phuckwit for a guinea pig. How is my driving?
Call 1-800-555-1234

http://www.carmagneticsigns.co.uk/im...l/P_Plates.jpg
Worn with pride.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-plate

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:11:55 -0000, "RedOnRed" wrote:

I've been looking out for oxygen bleach myself and wondering what's happened
to it.

I've not seen it for ages. It looks like it must've been withdrawn.

Reckitt obviously wasted all that money on Vanish OxyAction adverts.
You can buy it in most supermarkets.
--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"milou" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:11:55 -0000, "RedOnRed" wrote:



I've been looking out for oxygen bleach myself and wondering what's
happened
to it.

I've not seen it for ages. It looks like it must've been withdrawn.


How about typing "oxygen bleach" in google.co.uk and read the first
reply ?

Funnily enough i've already had the good sense to do that and it didn't
return any products currently available in supermarkets.

Perhaps you'd now like to teach my granny how to suck eggs?

On 12 Feb 2007 16:50:19 -0800, "alexander.keys1"
wrote:

Can you still get 'oxygen bleach', and where from?

(This is a substance based on hydrogen peroxide, as opposed to the
usual sodium hypochlorite).

I've not seen it in the shops for a year or two, and a local
janitorial supplier hasn't heard of it, although bleach tends not to
be used for commercial cleaning IME.

I need it for cleaning my flat (actually a Housing Association bedsit
with shared laundry and bathroom), I don't use the normal stuff at
home because if it gets onto clothes it damages them, but for a lot of
cleaning jobs you can't beat bleach. I recently cured a bad smell in a
cleaning cupboard at work, by getting some bleach from the nearby
supermarket and putting it down the sink. Got all the stains out of
the porcelain too, which the approved chemicals wouldn't shift.

Hi,

Try £ shops like 99p stores, or Wilko.

cheers,
Pete.

alexander.keys1 wrote:
Can you still get 'oxygen bleach', and where from?

(This is a substance based on hydrogen peroxide, as opposed to the
usual sodium hypochlorite).

I've not seen it in the shops for a year or two, and a local
janitorial supplier hasn't heard of it, although bleach tends not to
be used for commercial cleaning IME.

I need it for cleaning my flat (actually a Housing Association bedsit
with shared laundry and bathroom), I don't use the normal stuff at
home because if it gets onto clothes it damages them, but for a lot of
cleaning jobs you can't beat bleach. I recently cured a bad smell in a
cleaning cupboard at work, by getting some bleach from the nearby
supermarket and putting it down the sink. Got all the stains out of
the porcelain too, which the approved chemicals wouldn't shift.

laundry bleach e.g. ace is a dilute form.

--
Spamtrap in use
To email replace 127.0.0.1 with btinternet dot com

On 13 Feb, 01:14, "Clive George" wrote:
"alexander.keys1" wrote in message

oups.com...



On 13 Feb, 00:59, "Clive George" wrote:
"alexander.keys1" wrote in message

groups.com...

Can you still get 'oxygen bleach', and where from?

(This is a substance based on hydrogen peroxide, as opposed to the
usual sodium hypochlorite).

Ask at the old bailey :-)

cheers,
clive

Do you mean it was withdrawn from sale because it can be used to make
explosives? I didn't know that.

Sorry, no idea, I was just being silly.

cheers,
clive

alexander.keys1 said the following on 13/02/07 20:43:
On 13 Feb, 01:14, "Clive George" wrote:
"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 13 Feb, 00:59, "Clive George" wrote:
"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
oups.com...
Can you still get 'oxygen bleach', and where from?
(This is a substance based on hydrogen peroxide, as opposed to the
usual sodium hypochlorite).
Ask at the old bailey :-)
cheers,
clive
Do you mean it was withdrawn from sale because it can be used to make
explosives? I didn't know that.
Sorry, no idea, I was just being silly.

cheers,
clive

There was a great kids book in the local library that mentioned that
hydrogen peroxide mixed with manganese dioxide was what powered some
WWII torpedoes. There was also a small projectile launcher experiment
using the two same materials on the same page.


Richard.

--
"This week I have mostly been listening to -
RVW's "A Sea Symphony" and lots of William Alwyn stuff.

The message
from Owain contains these words:

You mean I'm sitting here with my head wrapped in tinfoil and Domestos
and in half an hour I'm not going to have those pop-star two-tone looks
some website promised?

Possibly, but at least the aliens and the CIA won't be able to control
your thoughts in the meantime.

--
Skipweasel
We have always been at war with Iran. [George Orwell - almost]

The message
from Richard Brooks contains
these words:

There was a great kids book in the local library that mentioned that
hydrogen peroxide mixed with manganese dioxide was what powered some
WWII torpedoes. There was also a small projectile launcher experiment
using the two same materials on the same page.

It's also believed to have polished off the Kursk.

--
Skipweasel
We have always been at war with Iran. [George Orwell - almost]

On 13 Feb, 20:53, Richard Brooks richardbro...@vickers-
supermarine.com wrote:
alexander.keys1 said the following on 13/02/07 20:43:





On 13 Feb, 01:14, "Clive George" wrote:
"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
groups.com...
On 13 Feb, 00:59, "Clive George" wrote:
"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
legroups.com...
Can you still get 'oxygen bleach', and where from?
(This is a substance based on hydrogen peroxide, as opposed to the
usual sodium hypochlorite).
Ask at the old bailey :-)
cheers,
clive
Do you mean it was withdrawn from sale because it can be used to make
explosives? I didn't know that.
Sorry, no idea, I was just being silly.

cheers,
clive

There was a great kids book in the local library that mentioned that
hydrogen peroxide mixed with manganese dioxide was what powered some
WWII torpedoes. There was also a small projectile launcher experiment
using the two same materials on the same page.

Powered the Nazi rocket plane the Me163 and we used it in the 50's in
the blu steel rockets AFAIK

On 13 Feb, 21:08, Guy King wrote:
The message
from Richard Brooks contains
these words:

There was a great kids book in the local library that mentioned that
hydrogen peroxide mixed with manganese dioxide was what powered some
WWII torpedoes. There was also a small projectile launcher experiment
using the two same materials on the same page.

It's also believed to have polished off the Kursk.

--
Skipweasel
We have always been at war with Iran. [George Orwell - almost]

Yes - and a British sub in Gibralter sometime ago. There was
something involving brass/copper and the hydogen peroxide - can't
remember whether everything had to be of these two or whether it was
the other way round.

Judging from the stories coming out of the Old Bailey, hair-dressers'
suppliers seem to be the source - but don't go and buy a box full !!

Rob

Sofa - Spud said the following on 13/02/07 21:48:
On 13 Feb, 20:53, Richard Brooks richardbro...@vickers-
supermarine.com wrote:
There was a great kids book in the local library that mentioned that
hydrogen peroxide mixed with manganese dioxide was what powered some
WWII torpedoes. There was also a small projectile launcher experiment
using the two same materials on the same page.

Powered the Nazi rocket plane the Me163 and we used it in the 50's in
the blu steel rockets AFAIK

Doesn't the peroxide sold in hairdressers come in varying strengths ?

You couldn't have books around like that in kids libraries now. It
showed you how the charges in chimney stacks were placed to blow them up
(or down) and the chemicals to make home made fireworks and explained
what brisance was. Kids were spoilt in those days but it kept them
reading! :-)


Richard.
--
"This week I have mostly been listening to -
RVW's "A Sea Symphony" and lots of William Alwyn stuff.

On 13 Feb 2007 13:48:56 -0800, Sofa - Spud wrote:

There was a great kids book in the local library that mentioned that
hydrogen peroxide mixed with manganese dioxide was what powered some
WWII torpedoes. There was also a small projectile launcher experiment
using the two same materials on the same page.

Powered the Nazi rocket plane the Me163 and we used it in the 50's in
the blu steel rockets AFAIK

Blue Steel, air launched nuclear missile, used peroxide and kersone.
Blue Streak, ground launched ICBM, used liquid oxygen and kerosene.

http://www.nms.ac.uk/rocketsandmissiles.aspx

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

The message .com
from "robgraham" contains these words:

Judging from the stories coming out of the Old Bailey, hair-dressers'
suppliers seem to be the source - but don't go and buy a box full !!

I wouldn't want a box of hair-dressers anyway.

--
Skipweasel
We have always been at war with Iran. [George Orwell - almost]

Chris Hodges wrote:
alexander.keys1 wrote:
Can you still get 'oxygen bleach', and where from?

(This is a substance based on hydrogen peroxide, as opposed to the
usual sodium hypochlorite).

I've not seen it in the shops for a year or two, and a local
janitorial supplier hasn't heard of it, although bleach tends not to
be used for commercial cleaning IME.

I need it for cleaning my flat (actually a Housing Association bedsit
with shared laundry and bathroom), I don't use the normal stuff at
home because if it gets onto clothes it damages them, but for a lot of
cleaning jobs you can't beat bleach. I recently cured a bad smell in a
cleaning cupboard at work, by getting some bleach from the nearby
supermarket and putting it down the sink. Got all the stains out of
the porcelain too, which the approved chemicals wouldn't shift.

laundry bleach e.g. ace is a dilute form.


Ecover laundry bleach. It was on the shelves in Waitrose last time I
looked. Sodium percarbonate

On 13 Feb, 23:22, "Dave Liquorice" wrote:
On 13 Feb 2007 13:48:56 -0800, Sofa - Spud wrote:

There was a great kids book in the local library that mentioned that
hydrogen peroxide mixed with manganese dioxide was what powered some
WWII torpedoes. There was also a small projectile launcher experiment
using the two same materials on the same page.

Powered the Nazi rocket plane the Me163 and we used it in the 50's in
the blu steel rockets AFAIK

Blue Steel, air launched nuclear missile, used peroxide and kersone.
Blue Streak, ground launched ICBM, used liquid oxygen and kerosene.

http://www.nms.ac.uk/rocketsandmissiles.aspx

Hydrogen peroxide is used for wound cleaning (well 20yrs ago) too and
you should see it froth!!

On 13 Feb 2007 13:48:56 -0800, "Sofa - Spud"
wrote:

Powered the Nazi rocket plane the Me163

T-Stoff

and we used it in the 50's in the blu steel rockets AFAIK

That was in the High Test Peroxide (HTP) form which is an 85-96%
concentration compared with about 5% in hairdressing bleach or 2-3%
concentration in the form usually sold in Chemists.

HTP in torpedoes caused the loss of HMS Sidon in 1956 as well as
(probably) the Kursk. Handling HTP requires considerable care and
special equipment.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"Richard Brooks"
|
| There was a great kids book in the local library that mentioned that
| hydrogen peroxide mixed with manganese dioxide was what powered some
| WWII torpedoes. There was also a small projectile launcher experiment
| using the two same materials on the same page.
|
|
| Richard.



--------------
Manganese dioxide? No. Calcium permanganate was used.

-----------------------
RT Holtzamnn
Chemical Rockets and Flame and Explosive Technology
Marcel Dekker 1969

b. HYDROGEN PEROXIDE. In high strength, i.e., 90-100%, hydrogen peroxide has a
high boiling point, high density, low viscosity, and with certain metalized systems is very
high performing. The preparation and properties of hydrogen peroxide have been well
documented (115). Much of the operational experience has also been reported (116).


The stability of high strength hydrogen peroxide depends largely on the nature of the
container in which it is stored and the concentration of adventitious impurities present in
solution or in suspension (117) Empirical studies on container materials and additives
during the past 50 years have produced a variety of techniques for passivating
container surfaces and decreasing the activity of catalytic ions present in solution. It has
only been in the past three years that high strength peroxide could be considered
storable over long periods of time (118,119). In practice, because of slow
decomposition and occasional explosions, high strength peroxide has found little
application as a bipropellant and is mainly employed as a monopropellant or gas
generator (120). This application is discussed more extensively below.


(4) Hydrogen peroxide. With suitable catalysts it is possible to decompose H20,
according to the equation:


H202(l) = H20(g) + 1/2O2 + 12.96 kcal (2-26)


Thermochernical calculations (120) on 100% H201 show the chamber temperature to
be 1250'K and the specific impulse 146 sec at a 20-to-I pressure ratio. Because of this
low performance, H102 cannot compete with the other members of the class A
monopropellants, but it is interesting to note that as a result of the simplicity of
operation of H202 motors and because of the low chamber temperature H202 was
actually used in military weapons by the Germans in World War II. Examples of
systems utilizing H2O2 catalyzed by calcium permanganate are (1) the Focke-Wolf
ATO Fw56 which developed 650 lb thrust for 30 sec, (2) pilot-controlled units for the
Henkel He 112 and He 126 rocket motors, and (3) the Messerschmitt Me 163-A rocket
airplane with a thrust of 1650 lb. In spite of its low theoretical 1,,,, useful rocket
application can be made of this monopropellant because of its high efficiency (as
measured by c*) and its high liquid density (1.39 gm/cm3 for commercial 90% H202 at
20oC. Considerable application has also been made of the gas-generating properties of
H202 (as, for instance, in the German V-2) because of ease of ignition and low
temperature of the product gases.


Hydrogen peroxide is normally manufactured as an aqueous solution. Prior to World
War 11, concentrations no higher than 30-35% were generally available. As a result of
interest in H2O2 as a rocket propellant, however, commercially available solutions of
H201 containing up to 99 % are now produced by means of vacuum distillation of the
more dilute solutions. For high performance it is desirable to employ as high a
concentration of H202 as possible, whereas in certain gas-generating devices it may be
advantageous to add water in order to lower the decomposition temperature.
Calculations show that an 87 % solution will yield a temperature of 930'K (320'K
decrease for 13 % H20) and an I., of only 126 sec (20 sec decrease). The use of
aqueous solutions Of H202 may be desirable because of their low freezing points.


A considerable amount of work has been done on the kinetics of the catalytic
decomposition of dilute H2O2 solutions. It is known that permanganate solutions are
effective catalysts for the decomposition of H202 and, in fact, calcium permanganate
has been used very successfully for the ignition of peroxide motors (120). Once the
decomposition has been started, the reaction proceeds smoothly with a nonluminous
exhaust. Calcium permanganate can be used in two ways, i.e., as a concentrated
aqueous solution injected together with the H201, and also as a catalytic surface on
Alundum pellets which are soaked with the catalytic solution, dried, and then packed
into the motor chamber. Both methods have been found satisfactory. High strength
hydrogen peroxide can be decomposed reliably into superheated oxygen gas and water
vapor at a predetermined temperature depending upon the H102 concentration and the
initial temperature of the solution. The decomposition catalyst used to the greatest
extent is the solid samariurn oxide coated silver screen (135). However, decomposition
via a liquid catalyst is feasible and it has been employed in systems where short firing
durations are used.


The treated silver screen catalyst normally is arranged in a tightly compressed pack
(Fig. 2-16). When the hydrogen peroxide passes over and around the wires of the pack
screens, silver ions pass into the H2O2 solution. These silver ions react with the H202
molecule decomposing it into oxygen gas and water vapor with heat being liberated.
This heat


increases the reaction rate by raising the. temperature of the screens and the H202. In
a matter of milliseconds the H202 reaction rate has increased to a point where the
adiabatic decomposition temperature of the H201 is reached. This reaction rate
continues indefinitely if required unless foreign matter poisons the silver.


The disadvantages in the use of H20, either as a monopropellant or in a bipropellant
combination are its thermal sensitivity, which requires vented containers for shipping
and storage, and its high freezing points.** Concentrated H20, reacts with many metals,
and the oxides formed catalyze the decomposition reaction. If poured on oxidized iron,
concrete, dust, or clothing, the exothermic decomposition becomes so rapid that an
explosion may result if the liquid is partially confined. This property constitutes a hazard
and great care should be exercised in handling H202, to avoid spillage. Concentrated
H,O, is practically inert, however, in contact with 2S aluminum alloy and polyethylene,
Teflon and Kel-F plastics (136). A detailed description of the equipment suitable for
handling concentrated H202 has been given by Davis and Keefe (136). With
reasonable handling care and with the use of proper materials for containers, these
authors conclude that concentrated peroxide solutions can be handled on a large scale
with safety.


--------------------------------------
GP Sutton
Rocket Propulsion Elements 5th ed.
John Wiley 1986


Hydrogen Peroxide (H202)


In rocket application, hydrogen peroxide has been used in a highly concentrated form
of 70 to 99%; the remainder is water. Commercial peroxide is approximately 30%
concentrated. It was used in rocket applications between 1938 and 1965 (X-I and X-15
research aircraft), but is no longer used today, primarily because of its storage stability
problems.


In the combustion chamber, the propellant decomposes according to the following
chemical reaction, forming superheated steam and gaseous oxygen:


H202 -- H20+ 1/2O2 + heat


This decomposition is brought about by the action of catalysts such as various
permanganates, manganese dioxide, platinum, and iron oxide. In fact, most impurities
act as a catalyst. The theoretical specific impulse of 90% hydrogen peroxide is 147 sec,
when used as a monopropellant.


Even under favorable conditions H202 Will often decompose at a slow rate during
storage and gas will bubble out of the liquid. Contaminated liquid peroxide must be
disposed before it reaches a danger point of about 448oK, when an explosion may
occur. Concentrated peroxide causes severe burns when in contact with human skin
and may ignite and cause fires when in contact with wood, oils, and many other organic
materials.


------------
H2O2 Omnium gatherum


Hydrogen peroxide of 80-85% strength under the name "T-Stoff" was used
by the Germans during WW II in submarines. "U-Boat, Walter" After Dr.
Helmuth Walter.


Reacted with calcium permanganate H2O2 produced oxygen for use in
submarine diesel engines, the energy liberated (690 kcal/g calculated for
100% peroxide) was in the form of steam utilized to operate gas turbines
directly connected to propeller shaft.


Seven such submarines (300 to 500 tons each) were accepted by the
German Navy up to the end of WW II.


Hydrogen peroxide with K or Na peroxide (Z-Stoff) produced superheated
steam (180o C) for rockets &c.


Hydrogen peroxide mixtures were also code named: Ingolin, Aurol,
Neuralin and Subsidol.


--------------------------------------------
Production of hydrogen peroxide:


From Ammonium bisulphate by electrolysis.
By oxidation of alkylhydroanthraquinones (Quinone process)
Oxidation of isopropyl alcohol.


Laboratory production is from barium peroxide. This is an expensive way of
making H2O2!


Hydrogen peroxide above 30% can be some really interesting stuff! There
being a geometric relationship between interesting and dangerous!!


Dr. Walter describes the use of hydrogen peroxide of the production of
power in: Jet Propulsion 24, 166-171 (1954) [Not seen by me.]


Sources:
PATR 2510 (AD 160 636) Dictionary of Explosives Ammunition and
Weapons. German Section (1958)
Faith, Keyes, &B Clark's Industrial Chemicals 4th Ed
JJ Mc Ketta ed Inorganic Chemicals Handbook




--
donald j haarmann
------------------------
What we could do with round here is a good war.
What else can you expect with peace running wild
all over the place? You know what the trouble with
peace is? No organization. Bertolt Brecht

donald haarmann said the following on 14/02/07 16:59:
"Richard Brooks"
|
| There was a great kids book in the local library that mentioned that
| hydrogen peroxide mixed with manganese dioxide was what powered some
| WWII torpedoes. There was also a small projectile launcher experiment
| using the two same materials on the same page.
|
|
| Richard.



--------------
Manganese dioxide? No. Calcium permanganate was used.

Well, it was an American book which described this, long out of print by
now and wouldn't be allowed on the shelves now.


Richard.

--
"This week I have mostly been listening to -
RVW's "A Sea Symphony" and lots of William Alwyn stuff.

"Richard Brooks" wrote in message
...
alexander.keys1 said the following on 13/02/07 20:43:

There was a great kids book in the local library that mentioned that
hydrogen peroxide mixed with manganese dioxide was what powered some WWII
torpedoes. There was also a small projectile launcher experiment using
the two same materials on the same page.


Richard.

--
"This week I have mostly been listening to -
RVW's "A Sea Symphony" and lots of William Alwyn stuff.

Isn't getting kids to experiment with explosive materials somewhat
irresponsible, even in those days?
Regards Mike.

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 08:26:50 -0000, "Mike Cawood, HND BIT"
wrote:

|!"Richard Brooks" wrote in message
...
|! alexander.keys1 said the following on 13/02/07 20:43:
|!
|! There was a great kids book in the local library that mentioned that
|! hydrogen peroxide mixed with manganese dioxide was what powered some WWII
|! torpedoes. There was also a small projectile launcher experiment using
|! the two same materials on the same page.

|!Isn't getting kids to experiment with explosive materials somewhat
|!irresponsible, even in those days?

I never lost a friend to explosive experiments, or putting bangers into
bottles, or shooting rockets at each other
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
20,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.org
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/
http://www.gutenberg.org/author/John_Hartley
http://www.gutenberg.org/author/F_W_Moorman

Mike Cawood, HND BIT said the following on 15/02/07 08:26:
Isn't getting kids to experiment with explosive materials somewhat
irresponsible, even in those days?
Regards Mike.

Well, they did also have some pages towards the back with some safer
stuff for school projects such as that stuff that makes loads of ash and
smoke. That of course was for the only experiment I've seen on tv
comedy shows which was the volcano. There must have been whole school
halls full of them!

That and the pellets that make those snakes was all part of the indoor
fireworks pages. The book was also full of chemical equations that
explained what the chemicals were. This was in the Temple Cowley
library in Oxford but that was over thirty five years ago now so it must
be gone by now. :-)


Richard.
--
"This week I have mostly been listening to -
RVW's "A Sea Symphony" and lots of William Alwyn stuff.

Dave Fawthrop said the following on 15/02/07 08:34:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 08:26:50 -0000, "Mike Cawood, HND BIT"
wrote:
|!Isn't getting kids to experiment with explosive materials somewhat
|!irresponsible, even in those days?

I never lost a friend to explosive experiments, or putting bangers into
bottles, or shooting rockets at each other

I once saw a policeman doing a tap dance in a doorway trying to put out,
probably a mixture of potassium permangate (used to be used as a
mouthwash) and glycerine (used for stopping cake icing going solid)
which was the fashionable nuisance at the time.

It wasn't me, BTW!


Richard.


--
"This week I have mostly been listening to -
RVW's "A Sea Symphony" and lots of William Alwyn stuff.

On 15 Feb, 08:34, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 08:26:50 -0000, "Mike Cawood, HND BIT"
wrote:

|!"Richard Brooks" wrote in message

...
|! alexander.keys1 said the following on 13/02/07 20:43:
|!
|! There was a great kids book in the local library that mentioned that
|! hydrogen peroxide mixed with manganese dioxide was what powered some WWII
|! torpedoes. There was also a small projectile launcher experiment using
|! the two same materials on the same page.

|!Isn't getting kids to experiment with explosive materials somewhat
|!irresponsible, even in those days?

I never lost a friend to explosive experiments, or putting bangers into
bottles, or shooting rockets at each other
--
Ho Ho - piece of scaffold pole and a rocket !! it was like an RPG!!

On 15 Feb, 08:26, "Mike Cawood, HND BIT" wrote:

Isn't getting kids to experiment with explosive materials somewhat
irresponsible, even in those days?

If kids are going to experiment, then hydrogen peroxide is one of the
safer ways to do it. It just can't detonate if it tried and the hazard
goes up with the concentration so it's easy to start small. Until you
get to HTP, the worst hazard is the chemical problem of eye splash,
not the physics of the explosions. The major safety precautions are
just to wear goggles and don't seal it into anything (if you can't
grok those, then autodarwinate). It's _incomparably_ safer to
something like collecting Armstrong's mixture up from scraped caps,
recycling aluminmium mixtures from fireworks or the like.

Also look at the excellent safety record of the early British HTP
rocket program, compared to the US (or US Navy!) liquid fuelled
programs.

Manganese compounds were used in WW2 as the late-war ersatz probelms
started to bite. They weren't efficient enough for the flying rockets,
but they were successful for the bulky and static V1 launch ramps. An
early unsuccessful model of the Me163 engines used it too in a
bipropellant system (Ian Hogg).

In article ,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

I never lost a friend to explosive experiments, or putting
bangers into bottles, or shooting rockets at each other

A lad at school lost his thumb and part of his
palm when trying to fill a tube with home made
fireworks mixture. There were some burns to
his face but his eyes were ok.

--
Tony Williams.

On 15 Feb, 09:51, Richard Brooks richardbro...@vickers-
supermarine.com wrote:

That and the pellets that make those snakes was all part of the indoor
fireworks pages.

I _really_ wouldn't make those these days (My Dad made them when I was
a kid). Apart from a few recipes that just aren't impressive enough to
be worth it, they really are nastily carcinogenic.

Dave Fawthrop wrote:

I never lost a friend to explosive experiments, or putting bangers
into bottles, or shooting rockets at each other

That takes me back! We used to shoot rockets at each other from whatever
bit of tube we could find. Bangers in rotten apples made great (& messy)
hand grenades - especially threepenny bangers.

We made us own fun in them days.................


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message ...
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

I never lost a friend to explosive experiments, or putting bangers
into bottles, or shooting rockets at each other

That takes me back! We used to shoot rockets at each other from whatever
bit of tube we could find. Bangers in rotten apples made great (& messy)
hand grenades - especially threepenny bangers.
We made us own fun in them days.................


They were better in jellyfish caught down at the Strand or the Esplanade.

On 15 Feb, 18:55, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
I never lost a friend to explosive experiments, or putting bangers
into bottles, or shooting rockets at each other

That takes me back! We used to shoot rockets at each other from whatever
bit of tube we could find. Bangers in rotten apples made great (& messy)
hand grenades - especially threepenny bangers.

We made us own fun in them days.................

--
We were lucky we could buy Airbombs!!

In article , "The Medway Handyman" wrote:
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

I never lost a friend to explosive experiments, or putting bangers
into bottles, or shooting rockets at each other

That takes me back! We used to shoot rockets at each other from whatever
bit of tube we could find. Bangers in rotten apples made great (& messy)
hand grenades - especially threepenny bangers.

We made us own fun in them days.................



Why would you put sausages into apples, and how did you get them to explode?