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Default Large elec bill from long ago!


I wonder if there's any chance of finding out what happened here…

My electricity bill is £350. I pay be direct debit and the balance
floats between £300 and £350. Thing is, about 3 years ago it floated
between £70-£100. I do know what's happened to elect prices but I
increased the DD until I noticed it said on the bill that they would
adjust the payments automatically. But they take a fixed amount each
month and have never increased it unless I ask. It just looks like
they want me to have a big excess - if so why?

Due to circumstance I never got around to trying to find out why or
exactly when, this step-function in the bill actually occurred (hands
up - my fault for leaving it). I've been through all the past bills I
have but of course the ones that would have should the details are
lost. But I do remember at around that time the electricity meter was
changed - from a beefy black plastic rotating wheel thing, to a small
plastic box with LCD readout and blinking led!

Is there any point/chance of me finding out from their records (or any
other means) after all this time, where this large excess came from?
Thanks

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"mike" wrote in message
...

I wonder if there's any chance of finding out what happened here.

My electricity bill is £350. I pay be direct debit and the balance
floats between £300 and £350. Thing is, about 3 years ago it floated
between £70-£100. I do know what's happened to elect prices but I
increased the DD until I noticed it said on the bill that they would
adjust the payments automatically. But they take a fixed amount each
month and have never increased it unless I ask. It just looks like
they want me to have a big excess - if so why?

Due to circumstance I never got around to trying to find out why or
exactly when, this step-function in the bill actually occurred (hands
up - my fault for leaving it). I've been through all the past bills I
have but of course the ones that would have should the details are
lost. But I do remember at around that time the electricity meter was
changed - from a beefy black plastic rotating wheel thing, to a small
plastic box with LCD readout and blinking led!

Is there any point/chance of me finding out from their records (or any
other means) after all this time, where this large excess came from?


Have you asked them?

Don't you keep your bills (with their readings)?

I've found utility companies helpful when I've asked for explanations of
things we didn't understand on the bills. I've also arranged for them to
decrease our DD payments, I'm sure they'd have complied if I'd asked them to
increase payments.

Mary


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On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:56:47 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"mike" wrote in message
.. .



Have you asked them?

Yes - no reply yet.


Don't you keep your bills (with their readings)?

Yes I keep the bill but scratch the readings out so I cannot read
them... NOT!
Do you only read part of NG posts? I clearly said I did - but have
some missing. If I had the data on them even I might be able to work
out the answer! Basically I'm trying to find out if they keep data
that goes back that far. And, as I said have had no reply (1 month).



I've found utility companies helpful when I've asked for explanations of
things we didn't understand on the bills. I've also arranged for them to
decrease our DD payments, I'm sure they'd have complied if I'd asked them to
increase payments.


Sigh - please re-read the OP.
Of course they will (and have) complied.
I'll re-state the problem for those at the back.
1) I cannot account for the large step increase that took place in the
bill that happened a long time ago. 2) They (the elc co) clearly say
they will adjust the DD payment to keep pace with costs - they have
not done so. The only time there has been a change is when I've asked
them to do it directly.
ttfn!
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On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 11:56:30 GMT, mike wrote:


I wonder if there's any chance of finding out what happened here…

My electricity bill is £350. I pay be direct debit and the balance
floats between £300 and £350. Thing is, about 3 years ago it floated
between £70-£100. I do know what's happened to elect prices but I
increased the DD until I noticed it said on the bill that they would
adjust the payments automatically. But they take a fixed amount each
month and have never increased it unless I ask. It just looks like
they want me to have a big excess - if so why?

Due to circumstance I never got around to trying to find out why or
exactly when, this step-function in the bill actually occurred (hands
up - my fault for leaving it). I've been through all the past bills I
have but of course the ones that would have should the details are
lost. But I do remember at around that time the electricity meter was
changed - from a beefy black plastic rotating wheel thing, to a small
plastic box with LCD readout and blinking led!

Is there any point/chance of me finding out from their records (or any
other means) after all this time, where this large excess came from?


I should say so.
Get onto customer services and start asking questions. The worst that
can happen is that they prove that you're being charged the going rate
for an accurately metered amount.

Regards,




--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk
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Default Large elec bill from long ago!

I wonder if there's any chance of finding out what happened here?
My electricity bill is £350. I pay be direct debit and the balance
floats between £300 and £350. Thing is, about 3 years ago it floated
between £70-£100.
I do remember at around that time the electricity meter was changed


There are several places where this could have gone "wrong" - indeed the
bills may now be accurate and under-reading before, but...

Your property will have an MPAN (meter point administration no.), and
your supplier will nominate a meter operator (who may or may not be from
the same company)

Given the number of companies and computer interfaces involved in
transferring this data to anyone who needs it, it is not unknown for the
old _or_ new meter reading to have been taken down incorrectly and then
tacked to the wrong MPAN number...

As a suggestion:

a) check the meter serial number corresponds to the one on the bill

b) see if you can get the meter readings at the time they were changed -
you may need to make a guesstimate at your usage using prior bills to
get an approximate final reading of the old meter if you have no actual
readings available

c) check in the vicinity of the meter - there may be a sticker to say
what the readings were when it was changed

d) if your supplier doesn't provide any useful information in a
reasonable timescale, contact http://www.energywatch.org.uk


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Default Large elec bill from long ago!


"mike" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:56:47 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"mike" wrote in message
. ..



Have you asked them?

Yes - no reply yet.


Don't you keep your bills (with their readings)?

Yes I keep the bill but scratch the readings out so I cannot read
them... NOT!
Do you only read part of NG posts? I clearly said I did - but have
some missing. If I had the data on them even I might be able to work
out the answer! Basically I'm trying to find out if they keep data
that goes back that far. And, as I said have had no reply (1 month).



I've found utility companies helpful when I've asked for explanations of
things we didn't understand on the bills. I've also arranged for them to
decrease our DD payments, I'm sure they'd have complied if I'd asked them
to
increase payments.


Sigh - please re-read the OP.
Of course they will (and have) complied.
I'll re-state the problem for those at the back.
1) I cannot account for the large step increase that took place in the
bill that happened a long time ago.


Have you asked them?

2) They (the elc co) clearly say
they will adjust the DD payment to keep pace with costs - they have
not done so. The only time there has been a change is when I've asked
them to do it directly.


Have you asked them why?

There's no point in arguing with me, I'm not the company, you need to
persevere with them, don't give up until you have the answer you want. We
can't give you the answers.

Oh - and I suggest that you keep all future bills (whether you think you'll
need them or not) in date order in a safe place. Second hand filing cabinets
are very good value. Of course you have to be organised and file bills as
soon as you get them ...

Mary
ttfn!



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Default Large elec bill from long ago!

Hi Mike...the bloke that changed the meter would have left a tag for
the
Meter READER. It might still be tucked in near the new meter.


Mary Fisher wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:56:47 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"mike" wrote in message
. ..



Have you asked them?

Yes - no reply yet.


Don't you keep your bills (with their readings)?

Yes I keep the bill but scratch the readings out so I cannot read
them... NOT!
Do you only read part of NG posts? I clearly said I did - but have
some missing. If I had the data on them even I might be able to work
out the answer! Basically I'm trying to find out if they keep data
that goes back that far. And, as I said have had no reply (1 month).



I've found utility companies helpful when I've asked for explanations of
things we didn't understand on the bills. I've also arranged for them to
decrease our DD payments, I'm sure they'd have complied if I'd asked them
to
increase payments.


Sigh - please re-read the OP.
Of course they will (and have) complied.
I'll re-state the problem for those at the back.
1) I cannot account for the large step increase that took place in the
bill that happened a long time ago.


Have you asked them?

2) They (the elc co) clearly say
they will adjust the DD payment to keep pace with costs - they have
not done so. The only time there has been a change is when I've asked
them to do it directly.


Have you asked them why?

There's no point in arguing with me, I'm not the company, you need to
persevere with them, don't give up until you have the answer you want. We
can't give you the answers.

Oh - and I suggest that you keep all future bills (whether you think you'll
need them or not) in date order in a safe place. Second hand filing cabinets
are very good value. Of course you have to be organised and file bills as
soon as you get them ...

Mary
ttfn!


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On Jan 3, 11:56 am, mike wrote:
But I do remember at around that time the electricity meter was
changed - from a beefy black plastic rotating wheel thing, to a small
plastic box with LCD readout and blinking led!


There was a post on here a while back (2 months-ish?) from someone
who'd had a new meter installed.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...c6467858269e01

The old meter measured kWh, the new meter measured kVAh . The point
was that the new meter charged more for inductive loads (motors), so
the poster's use of his numerous power tools was costing him lots more.

Might be relevant if motors make up a significant part of your
electric consumption.

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On 3 Jan 2007 11:42:50 -0800, Aidan wrote:

On Jan 3, 11:56 am, mike wrote:
But I do remember at around that time the electricity meter was
changed - from a beefy black plastic rotating wheel thing, to a small
plastic box with LCD readout and blinking led!


There was a post on here a while back (2 months-ish?) from someone
who'd had a new meter installed.


It's a great pity you didn't bother to read the rest of that thread before
making your post.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...c6467858269e01

The old meter measured kWh, the new meter measured kVAh . The point
was that the new meter charged more for inductive loads (motors), so
the poster's use of his numerous power tools was costing him lots more.

Might be relevant if motors make up a significant part of your
electric consumption.


Totally wrong and misleading. The very next post in the thread (no. 11),
from the OP, Mark, said that his meter was labelled for KWh and he'd been
misled by the manufacturer.

Domestic customers are charged on a KWH basis, not KVAh.

--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net
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Aidan wrote:

The old meter measured kWh, the new meter measured kVAh .


No it didn't, the poster only thought it did. I thought the notion was
comprehensively demolished during the ensuing thread.

--
Andy


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Mary Fisher wrote:


Have you asked them?

Don't you keep your bills (with their readings)?

I've found utility companies helpful when I've asked for explanations of
things we didn't understand on the bills. I've also arranged for them to
decrease our DD payments, I'm sure they'd have complied if I'd asked them to
increase payments.

Mary



Hi Mary

In her previous (single) existence my wife paid her elec bill by DD.
the provider increased her payments until she was £150 in credit and
refused to refund the overpayment. She was only able to recover the
money by moving house.

We pay _nothing_ by DD!

Richard
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The message
from mike contains these words:

Due to circumstance I never got around to trying to find out why or
exactly when, this step-function in the bill actually occurred (hands
up - my fault for leaving it). I've been through all the past bills I
have but of course the ones that would have should the details are
lost.


How many of the bills have been lost? As all bills should have both
opening and closing figures and prices you only need every other one to
work out whether there has in fact been a sudden jump and even if there
are more lost you can average the missing bills to pin down at least the
period of the presumed event.

--
Roger Chapman
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The message
from Roger contains these words:

How many of the bills have been lost? As all bills should have both
opening and closing figures and prices you only need every other one to
work out whether there has in fact been a sudden jump and even if there
are more lost you can average the missing bills to pin down at least the
period of the presumed event.


Afterthought.

Watch out for estimated readings and be prepared not to believe them.
They are not always accurate.

--
Roger Chapman
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"Richard" wrote in message
...

Hi Mary

In her previous (single) existence my wife paid her elec bill by DD. the
provider increased her payments until she was £150 in credit and refused
to refund the overpayment. She was only able to recover the money by
moving house.


That's never been my experience but I can only speak for myself. It does
surprise me though. And I suspect that closing the relevant bank account
would have done the job, it would have been less drastic. Perhaps she was
moving house anyway of course :-)

We pay _nothing_ by DD!


I pay as much as I can by DD - it saves me having to remember and I get no
red letters :-)

If I had a bad experience I'd probably think differently.

Last year our electricity company wanted to increase our payments because of
higher 'wholesale' costs. Now I know this could cause a lot of controversy
and I have no intention of involving myself in it. I telephoned and said
that I wasn't prepared to pay more because we had taken steps to reduce our
usage in the last three months. After I explained what they were the company
said that my payments would be reduced, they were and I'm still a lot in
credit so at the end of that annual period I'll contact them again and
expect another reduction.

Something similar happened with the water company.

The fact is that DD is easy and secure, it is used confidently by millions
of people for many purposes and with happy results. Nothing's perfect and
the odd unhappy exception will occur with any system but that doesn't make
the system bad in itself.

Mary



Richard




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On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 09:57:07 -0000, Mary Fisher wrote:

snip

I pay as much as I can by DD - it saves me having to remember and I get no
red letters :-)


AOL.

If I had a bad experience I'd probably think differently.


Well, it definitely pays to keep an eye on what's going on with the bank
and all the various utilities. I suspect that's one of the main reasons why
people complain when it all goes wrong, coz they just don't keep a watchful
eye on what's happening.

Last year our electricity company wanted to increase our payments because of
higher 'wholesale' costs. Now I know this could cause a lot of controversy
and I have no intention of involving myself in it. I telephoned and said
that I wasn't prepared to pay more because we had taken steps to reduce our
usage in the last three months. After I explained what they were the company
said that my payments would be reduced, they were and I'm still a lot in
credit so at the end of that annual period I'll contact them again and
expect another reduction.


That works as long as you get someone sensible and who understands just
what it is you're trying to tell them at the other end. Unfortunately the
peanuts and monkeys syndrome is too well established at many large company
call centres. Took me quite a while and a considerable amount of angst to
get to someone who could sort a problem I'd been having with my electricity
supplier.

Something similar happened with the water company.

The fact is that DD is easy and secure, it is used confidently by millions
of people for many purposes and with happy results. Nothing's perfect and
the odd unhappy exception will occur with any system but that doesn't make
the system bad in itself.


As I said above though, it's not an arrangement that should just be signed
up for and then forgotten. The customer needs, it could be argued has a
duty to keep tabs on things. I certainly wouldn't leave large institutions
to have free and completely unmonitored access to my money!

--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net


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mike wrote:

I wonder if there's any chance of finding out what happened here...

My electricity bill is £350. I pay be direct debit and the balance
floats between £300 and £350. Thing is, about 3 years ago it floated
between £70-£100. I do know what's happened to elect prices but I
increased the DD until I noticed it said on the bill that they would
adjust the payments automatically. But they take a fixed amount each
month and have never increased it unless I ask. It just looks like
they want me to have a big excess - if so why?


of course, the purpose of any company is to make profit. DD makes them
more money 3 ways:
a) bills are paid on time
b) in case of disputes they simply take the money they want
c) they also can and do take an excess and use it as working capital,
so you're loaning them at 0% as well.

Giving a company free access to your bank account is nuts imho, you can
only blame yourself really.


NT

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wrote in message
ps.com...
mike wrote:

of course, the purpose of any company is to make profit. DD makes them
more money 3 ways:
a) bills are paid on time


Seems reasonable.

b) in case of disputes they simply take the money they want


Only if the customer doesn't realise that DDs can be cancelled. The company
can't be blamed for the customer not realising this - it's part of the
documentation they have to show the customer when they sign up for the DD,
and it's pretty darn clear IMO.

c) they also can and do take an excess and use it as working capital,
so you're loaning them at 0% as well.


Slightly different point - yes, there appears to be some abuse on that side.
I'm not going to scream about it too much though - if you've got to the
stage where the interest on a hundred quid or so is important, then I reckon
you've got far more important things to be worrying about, and if it's lots
more than that, stop the DD until it gets back down to a sensible level.

Giving a company free access to your bank account is nuts imho, you can
only blame yourself really.


Yes, doing that would be nuts. DD isn't 'free access to your bank account' -
there are in fact rather a lot of safeguards associated with it. As such it
works rather well IMO. But if you want to make your life unnecessarily
harder, I'm not going to stop you.

cheers,
clive

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On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:32:43 UTC, "Clive George"
wrote:

wrote in message
ps.com...


c) they also can and do take an excess and use it as working capital,
so you're loaning them at 0% as well.


Slightly different point - yes, there appears to be some abuse on that side.


However, he made a blanket statement about DD which is untrue. Quarterly
DD is for the exact amount billed (which may be based on an estimate but
there is a chance to amend that). Point (c) does not, therefore, always
apply anyway.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com
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"Clive George" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
ps.com...
mike wrote:

of course, the purpose of any company is to make profit. DD makes them
more money 3 ways:
a) bills are paid on time


Seems reasonable.

b) in case of disputes they simply take the money they want


Only if the customer doesn't realise that DDs can be cancelled. The
company can't be blamed for the customer not realising this - it's part of
the documentation they have to show the customer when they sign up for the
DD, and it's pretty darn clear IMO.

c) they also can and do take an excess and use it as working capital,
so you're loaning them at 0% as well.


Slightly different point - yes, there appears to be some abuse on that
side. I'm not going to scream about it too much though - if you've got to
the stage where the interest on a hundred quid or so is important, then I
reckon you've got far more important things to be worrying about, and if
it's lots more than that, stop the DD until it gets back down to a
sensible level.

Giving a company free access to your bank account is nuts imho, you can
only blame yourself really.


Yes, doing that would be nuts. DD isn't 'free access to your bank
account' - there are in fact rather a lot of safeguards associated with
it. As such it works rather well IMO. But if you want to make your life
unnecessarily harder, I'm not going to stop you.


I'd have liked to say all that but it will be interesting to see if you get
flack instead :-)

Mary

cheers,
clive



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mike wrote:

My electricity bill is £350. I pay be direct debit and the balance
floats between £300 and £350.


Cancel the DD and pay the bills. Utility companies in recent years
have turned into thieving *******s who deliberately over-charge on
these "budget" plans, effectively turning your money into an interest
free loan to them. When I cancelled my last one, their over-charge had
reached something like 9 months bill.



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On 4 Jan 2007 14:17:13 -0800, "Andy Dingley"
wrote:

Cancel the DD and pay the bills. Utility companies in recent years
have turned into thieving *******s who deliberately over-charge on
these "budget" plans, effectively turning your money into an interest
free loan to them.


They have always done that if you let them. I simply don't let them.
Southern have just tried to up one of my DD's from £15 to £33, well they
did for a while as I owed 'em a bit but then I phoned 'em up and got it
reduced. I think they also tried to up the £2 one but I stopped that
increase before it started, still pay by DD though. When ever a bill
lands on the mat I check the readings, if I've used less I tell 'em, if
I've used more I don't.

When I cancelled my last one, their over-charge had reached something
like 9 months bill.


More fool you for letting it get that big.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



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The Wanderer wrote:


Well, it definitely pays to keep an eye on what's going on with the bank
and all the various utilities. I suspect that's one of the main reasons why
people complain when it all goes wrong, coz they just don't keep a watchful
eye on what's happening.



SWMBO certainly complained loud and long as soon as she went into credit
- to no avail.

Strangley enough we were discussing this with a friend yesterday. He
went into credit to the tune of £500 - purely through neglect as he
quickly confessed! His utility supplier told him that the situation
should not have arise cos their systems detected credits in excess of
£50 and issued an automatic refund! Unfortunately the girl on the phone
could not manually generate refunds for more than £50!!!! Took a lot
of arguing with a 'supervisor' to achieve the refund.


Richard
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mike wrote:

I wonder if there's any chance of finding out what happened here…

My electricity bill is £350. I pay be direct debit and the balance
floats between £300 and £350. Thing is, about 3 years ago it floated
between £70-£100. I do know what's happened to elect prices but I
increased the DD until I noticed it said on the bill that they would
adjust the payments automatically. But they take a fixed amount each
month and have never increased it unless I ask. It just looks like
they want me to have a big excess - if so why?

Due to circumstance I never got around to trying to find out why or
exactly when, this step-function in the bill actually occurred (hands
up - my fault for leaving it). I've been through all the past bills I
have but of course the ones that would have should the details are
lost. But I do remember at around that time the electricity meter was
changed - from a beefy black plastic rotating wheel thing, to a small
plastic box with LCD readout and blinking led!

Is there any point/chance of me finding out from their records (or any
other means) after all this time, where this large excess came from?
Thanks

On an inverse tack I have just had my elec bill go from £156 to -£5 to
£26 after two telephone calls correcting one estimated bill!

Richard
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To MLD: Regarding My Roofing Quest's Of A few Days Ago: Robert11 Home Repair 1 May 24th 05 05:03 PM


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